Armor of Agathys for a Bladesinger?

[Degwerks]

How would you rate getting Armor of Agathys from the new UA feats for a Bladesinger? Runecarvers Apprentice.
I was thinking of using it to do damage in conjunction with my Shield spell, with the Shield spell keeping my Armor of Agathys from losing THP.

OR would it be better off not using that feat and instead boosting INT to 20 or grabbing a different feat?

[Skrum]

Armor is kinda bad. That's my take

Ok not even kinda bad. It's just bad. I wouldn't recommend it

[JackPhoenix]

What's the point of using Armor of Agathys if you're using Shield to avoid being hit? The point of AoA is that the enemies take damage when they hit you, Shield is counterproductive to that goal.

[JNAProductions]

Armor is kinda bad. That's my take

Ok not even kinda bad. It's just bad. I wouldn't recommend it

It’s niche, maybe-but definitely not bad.

For a Bladesinger who doesn’t take many hits, probably not worth it though.

[Corran]

What's the point of using Armor of Agathys if you're using Shield to avoid being hit? The point of AoA is that the enemies take damage when they hit you, Shield is counterproductive to that goal.
Hmm, using shield to potentially avoid getting hit by ranged attacks (that wont trigger damage from AoA) is the only thing I can think of. Well, that and having shield as a back up for if you bet more than you should on your AoA. But the op confused me too.

[Skrum]

It’s niche, maybe-but definitely not bad.

For a Bladesinger who doesn’t take many hits, probably not worth it though.

The only time I can think of that it would be an optimal use of a spell is if you're facing a lot of very weak enemies - in which case, preserving your slots is still probably the better move because you're not in a threatening battle.

If it was castable as a bonus action, then maybe it would be alright

[JackPhoenix]

One note for AoA on Bladesinger: You can use the Extra Attack cantrip for Blade Ward to keep AoA on longer, assuming enemies use nonmagical P/B/S.

[AvvyR]

I played a Bladesinger to 20 in Dungeon of the Mad Mage, and my experience with it is your AC should be so astronomically high that you never get hit, making Agathys wasted.

[Hael]

It could work with some racials and party comps with easy access to temphp, but overall its merely ok..

[Skrum]

It could work with some racials and party comps with easy access to temphp, but overall its merely ok..

Unfortunately temp HP doesn't work that way in 5e. If you get more of it, it replaces the old temp HP. You can't extend the spell by casting False Life.

The "best" use of it is to combine it with racial abilities that prevent damage, like Earth Genasi or Goliaths. But even then...it's just a meh. The fact that it takes an action to cast removes it from viability, IMO.

[JNAProductions]

Unfortunately temp HP doesn't work that way in 5e. If you get more of it, it replaces the old temp HP. You can't extend the spell by casting False Life.

The "best" use of it is to combine it with racial abilities that prevent damage, like Earth Genasi or Goliaths. But even then...it's just a meh. The fact that it takes an action to cast removes it from viability, IMO.

It lasts an entire hour.

Do you get ambushed every single fight?

[Skrum]

It lasts an entire hour.

Do you get ambushed every single fight?

An hour is long enough to cast it ahead of a fight, but not long enough to rest. And since Warlocks are the most likely to use it (having auto-leveled) spells, do you really want to use 50% of your spells on AoA? I just don't see the value, at all. There's a solid chance it gets used exactly once, which means you used a 3rd level spell to deal 15 damage. That's....really really bad. As for other casters, do you really want to spend a 3rd, 4th, 5th level slot on this? How does it really measure up to fireball, hypnotic pattern, dimension door, polymorph...cause that's what it's competing with.

If it could be used as a bonus action, you'd at least be able to pop it up mid-combat when you really need the temp HP. The damage could be a nice little rider at that point. I still don't think most warlocks should use it, but it would be better.

If it could be used as a reaction to taking damage, now that would be a solid spell.

[Speely]

I actually kinda like it. There will be times when you don't want to spend a slot on Shield and instead let AoA do damage, especially if you have Warcaster and want to use a BB reaction (for example) as an AoO. Also becomes mitigation vs the Bladesinger's worst nightmare: a crit.

[ender241]

One thing that no one has mentioned yet is that there is some synergy with the Bladesinger's Song of Defense feature. You can reduce or even completely negate damage while still triggering the AoA damage to the attacker. As long as you have spell slots to spare and a free reaction you can extend it considerably longer than normal. Whether it's worth it to burn spell slots to do this repeatedly is debatable, and it only becomes an option at level 10, but if you really want to build around AoA it could be a useful combo. Overall I tend to agree with others on this thread that a Bladesinger shouldn't be hit often enough to make AoA really worth it.

[Degwerks]

What's the point of using Armor of Agathys if you're using Shield to avoid being hit? The point of AoA is that the enemies take damage when they hit you, Shield is counterproductive to that goal.

I'm leaning towards the ability to use Shield to not take the damage, but Shield states "1 reaction, which you take when you are hit by an attack or targeted by the magic missile spell" So they hit me but Shield makes it so I don't get damage but it triggers AoA and they take the damage. AoA states "If a creature hits you with a melee attack while you have these hit points, the creature takes 5 cold damage." It doesn't say I have to take damage from the hit to trigger it.

[JNAProductions]

I'm leaning towards the ability to use Shield to not take the damage, but Shield states "1 reaction, which you take when you are hit by an attack or targeted by the magic missile spell" So they hit me but Shield makes it so I don't get damage but it triggers AoA and they take the damage. AoA states "If a creature hits you with a melee attack while you have these hit points, the creature takes 5 cold damage." It doesn't say I have to take damage from the hit to trigger it.

Shield turns a hit into a miss.

Narratively, the attack nearly hit, but you diverted it at the last minute with a magical barrier or something.
Mechanically, it just helps you avoid wasting spell slots-it won't always work (a 20 hits, whether your AC is 10 or 10,000) but it helps.

For what it's worth too, I'd rule against this interaction as a DM. It seems RAW, RAI, and makes sense from a narrative point of view too.

[Degwerks]

Shield turns a hit into a miss.

Narratively, the attack nearly hit, but you diverted it at the last minute with a magical barrier or something.
Mechanically, it just helps you avoid wasting spell slots-it won't always work (a 20 hits, whether your AC is 10 or 10,000) but it helps.

For what it's worth too, I'd rule against this interaction as a DM. It seems RAW, RAI, and makes sense from a narrative point of view too.

well crap, that's the whole reason I kinda wanted it.

Now I don't know what I should do, boost my INT to 20, take a different feat or use Rune Carver's Apprentice to gain the Bane spell to help us not get hit.

[ender241]

well crap, that's the whole reason I kinda wanted it.

Now I don't know what I should do, boost my INT to 20, take a different feat or use Rune Carver's Apprentice to gain the Bane spell to help us not get hit.

There are a lot of good options. Maxing Int is never bad for any Wizard. What's your Dex? Bladesingers benefit from Dex more than most Wizards so pumping Dex or taking a Dex half feat isn't a bad option either. How about Con? You could pump Dex/Con if both are odd or take Resilient (Con) if only Con is odd, making it so you basically never drop concentration while Bladesinging. There's always Warcaster to help on that front as well, which also gives a potent OA if you plan to wade into melee often. There's Lucky too, which is good on any character.

[Talionis]

Armor of Agathys is niche. You have to pair it with ways to damage reduce that don’t waste resources and actions. Song of Defense wastes spell slots, Generally you could just use the spell slot for a damage spell or two damage spells and just try to avoid being hit and do better. It also usually requires at least two or more abilities that reduce damage to make effective.

An abjuration Wizard can use Armor of Agathys pretty well but it can layer resistances with its ward feature and potential Heavy Armor Mastery to reduce damage to your temporary hit points to as close to zero on each hit as possible. Even then it generally works better against hordes of weak enemies which is hard when you layer so much and it’s still not a good strategy.

In so many situations you should ask yourself could I have just done more damage with Fireball and then used a plan not to get hit.