No Land Speed = "0 feet" or "N/A"

[Wildstag]

I was discussing with a friend the old Pathfinder method of defeating Wendigos, which is that since their only listed speed is a magical Fly speed, in an anti-magic field, they'd have no way to move.

In both 3.5 AND Pathfinder 1e, there are several options that add a flat bonus to land speed. That being said, if a creature does not have a listed land speed, is it treated as having a speed of "0 feet" which can be added to through bonuses, or does it have an effective land speed of "N/A", which would probably prevent adding to it.

And further, are there any methods for just giving a creature a land speed?

[Biggus]

The spell Fins to Feet (SpC p.92) can give a creature with a tail, fins or tentacles legs instead.

I don't know of an official answer to the other question, but my feeling is that if you don't have a land speed listed, it would be N/A. That said, there's the option to crawl at a speed of 5ft which has its own rules separate from normal movement, so I guess a creature without proper legs like the Wendigo could probably do that.

[the_tick_rules]

I would go with the N/A under those circumstances. Usually I've seen aerial creatures have a crap land speed but still a listed speed. If you can't find anything in their stats that says they can walk I'd say they may not be considered immobile but cannot exit the square.

[Wildstag]

That said, there's the option to crawl at a speed of 5ft which has its own rules separate from normal movement, so I guess a creature without proper legs like the Wendigo could probably do that.

Shame the crawl is a move-equivalent action and not a speed all to its own.

[Dalmosh]

Can you use the Throw action to throw yourself at an adjacent square, as a full-round action?

[Crake]

which is that since their only listed speed is a magical Fly speed

I don't see where it's listed as specifically being magical in their monster entry on the pfsrd?

[Biggus]

Shame the crawl is a move-equivalent action and not a speed all to its own.

Yes, as far as I know there's no specific way to improve this, although Haste would arguably increase it to 10ft. I just mentioned it because it means the Wendigo is not necessarily entirely unable to move without its flight.


I don't see where it's listed as specifically being magical in their monster entry on the pfsrd?

Apparently the Bestiary 2 and 3 clarified this:



Flight (Ex, Sp, or Su) A creature with this ability can cease or resume flight as a free action. If the creature has wings, flight is an extraordinary ability. Otherwise, it is spell-like or supernatural, and it is ineffective in an antimagic field; the creature loses its ability to fly for as long as the antimagic effect persists. Format: fly 30 ft. (average); Location: Speed.

[Gruftzwerg]

In both 3.5 AND Pathfinder 1e, there are several options that add a flat bonus to land speed. That being said, if a creature does not have a listed land speed, is it treated as having a speed of "0 feet" which can be added to through bonuses, or does it have an effective land speed of "N/A", which would probably prevent adding to it.
Imho it's like having no fly speed and getting +5ft fly speed somehow. You still can't fly.
Thus following the same logic, unless you already have some kind of land speed, the bonus won't help you here sadly..



And further, are there any methods for just giving a creature a land speed?

As biggus mentioned, there is the "Fins to Feet" spell. An then there is the Landwalking ring in the same book (Stormwrack). Both work on aquatic creatures, turning the swim speed into land speed.

edit: It's far easier to give em a natural fly option in addition btw. Maybe you should aim for that?

[ShurikVch]

I think it's depending on the creature in question:
Say, Shalarin (Monsters of Faerûn) have "Speed: Swim 40 ft." - thus, their Land Speed is "N/A"
On the other hand, Shrieker (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/fungus.htm) have "Str —, Dex —" (i. e. completely immobile) - but "Speed: 0 ft." (thus, its Land Speed = "0 feet")

[Biggus]

I think it's depending on the creature in question:
Say, Shalarin (Monsters of Faerûn) have "Speed: Swim 40 ft." - thus, their Land Speed is "N/A"
On the other hand, Shrieker (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/fungus.htm) have "Str —, Dex —" (i. e. completely immobile) - but "Speed: 0 ft." (thus, its Land Speed = "0 feet")

Ah, nice one, I thought I'd seen a creature with a listed speed of 0ft but I couldn't remember what. I guess that settles the question then, if they don't have 0ft listed, they don't have land movement (except possibly crawl) at all.

[Thurbane]

3.5 does say this:


Minimum Movement
Despite penalties to movement, you can take a full-round action to move 5 feet (1 square) in any direction, even diagonally. (This rule doesn’t allow you to move through impassable terrain or to move when all movement is prohibited.) Such movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal (despite the distance covered, this move isn’t a 5-foot step).

...although I would say a creature with no listed land speed probably falls more into the category of "all movement is prohibited", than having "penalties to movement".

[loky1109]

3.5 does say this:
...although I would say a creature with no listed land speed probably falls more into the category of "all movement is prohibited", than having "penalties to movement".

Looking on Shalarin image I say it can crawl.

[Jay R]

It's a DM judgment call. Since it has no feet, but does have hands, I would probably give it a crawl speed of 5 feet as a full move, but it can't attack the round it moved, even as a AoO. It's not used to doing this. I would also probably not let it crawl at all the first round it falls to earth.