Rituals can't be upcast

[LibraryOgre]

I am almost positive that I have complained about this before, but why make a point of saying that rituals cannot be upcast if absolutely none of them have a way to upcast? The only reason to spend a spell slot on them is speed.

[Warder]

Future proofing? Remnants of a design era when they could be upcast? Bad editing? Could be either of those three with roughly equal probabilities, I'd say. But honestly I don't mind that it's there, it removes doubt from potential homebrewed spells.

[Gignere]

I am almost positive that I have complained about this before, but why make a point of saying that rituals cannot be upcast if absolutely none of them have a way to upcast? The only reason to spend a spell slot on them is speed.

It does interact with dispel magic and counter spell, so if you use a higher level spell slots to cast these they can become harder to dispel or counterspell.

[Psyren]

I am almost positive that I have complained about this before, but why make a point of saying that rituals cannot be upcast if absolutely none of them have a way to upcast? The only reason to spend a spell slot on them is speed.

*shifty eyes*

*scoots Animal Messenger under desk with toe*

[AdAstra]

(Just to be clear, this is referring to ritual casting being unable to count as higher level spell slots, right? Because as far as I can tell there's nothing preventing the spells themselves from being upcast, you just have to use a spell slot)

IMO, the most likely answer is either untargeted future proofing, a holdover from an earlier version, or specifically meant to prevent all rituals from effectively being cast with a person's highest available spell level (but that would still largely be for future proofing purposes). But as people earlier have said, it has real effects on gameplay. Animal Messenger increases in duration when upcast, and spells cast at a higher level are harder to Counterspell or Dispel.

It also affects creatures like the Rakshasa, which cannot be affected or detected by spells of 6th level or lower unless it chooses to be (I think Tiamat has this too? Something like it anyhow). Unless you use a high level spell slot, they can walk right through an Alarm, Leomund's Tiny Hut, or Forbiddance without being noticed or stopped by those spells.

[Chronos]

Of course rituals can be upcast. If you want to cast a 5th level Comprehend Languages, you're allowed to. Why would you do that? I dunno, maybe you've used up all of your low-level spell slots but really, really need to read some ancient inscription RIGHT NOW.

No ritual spell happens to have any way in which the spell becomes more powerful when upcast, but so what? Most spells don't have that.

[Segev]

It is a homebrew "fix" to it, but I wrote a version of phantom steed (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?645094-Upgrading-Phantom-Steed) that has upcast effects.

[solidork]

No ritual spell happens to have any way in which the spell becomes more powerful when upcast, but so what? Most spells don't have that.

They do, actually, as Psyren mentioned. Animal Messenger travels further with higher spell slots.

[JackPhoenix]

Of course rituals can be upcast. If you want to cast a 5th level Comprehend Languages, you're allowed to. Why would you do that? I dunno, maybe you've used up all of your low-level spell slots but really, really need to read some ancient inscription RIGHT NOW.

No ritual spell happens to have any way in which the spell becomes more powerful when upcast, but so what? Most spells don't have that.

If you're casting a spell from a slot, you aren't casting it as a ritual.

[GentlemanVoodoo]

I am almost positive that I have complained about this before, but why make a point of saying that rituals cannot be upcast if absolutely none of them have a way to upcast? The only reason to spend a spell slot on them is speed.

You are correct. Though might be a future design for some spells that may have upcasting effects but may also be allowed to be casted as a ritual. However I am not presently aware if any spells as of now are like this. Perhaps also it is a design aspect in the case a DM allows a spell as a ritual that normally isn't. But currently it seems redundant.

[meandean]

It makes sense in and of itself, for the reason the rules explicitly state:


[Ritual casting] also doesn't expend a spell slot, which means the ritual version of a spell can't be cast at a higher level.

What would "upcasting" even signify when a spell slot isn't involved? The spell slot of a ritual is null. You can't "increase" it, because it's not a number in the first place. If there were somehow an ability that let you "downcast" a spell into a lower spell slot (which would be a hell of an ability...), you presumably wouldn't be able to downcast a ritual either.

The hole you could poke in this logic is that it would also suggest treating rituals as "0th level spells" in the situations when a number does have to be assigned... which would mean any ritual would be automatically dispellable by anyone capable of casting dispel magic at all. But I get why they would prefer the less consistent logic to the less desirable conclusion.

[animorte]

Another point to remember is that having this simple statement, this restriction in place, goes a long way to prevent ridiculous arguments on the matter. Far too many people tend to play by, “Well, it doesn’t say I can’t!”

[Kane0]

Of course rituals can be upcast. If you want to cast a 5th level Comprehend Languages, you're allowed to. Why would you do that? I dunno, maybe you've used up all of your low-level spell slots but really, really need to read some ancient inscription RIGHT NOW.


*Cringes in Warlock*

[Willie the Duck]

Honestly, I always thought it was just so there would be an answer if anyone asked what level it was cast at (since you know someone would ask).

[Mastikator]

I can think of one practical consequence.

Dispel magic- If you dispel magic on a permanent/ongoing effect against a spell of spell slot 4th or higher you must roll the dice.

If I can just upcast my ritual to 9th or whatever then I am getting free protection from dispel magic.