Your Top 5 Draconic Sorceror Tips, Please

[NecessaryWeevil]

Hi Playgrounders,

Could you give me your 5 most important tips for playing a Draconic Sorceror as a new player?

Context:

I'm playing a Changeling Aberrant Mind Sorceror and two others are playing an Assassin Rogue intending to multiclass into Death Cleric, and a Lore(?) Bard. We're level 3 and playing through Phandelver. Our tactics so far emphasize stealth, diplomacy, deception and surprise, as you might imagine. Direct confrontation is not our strong suit; the Bard in particular is about as resilient as a wet paper bag (and also a new player).

Recently we've been joined by a new player, playing a Draconic Sorceror. I've observed that he spends most rounds firing a crossbow. I asked about this and he said most of his spells seem irrelevant to the situation. I think one of them is Knock, I'm not sure about the others. I've offered to give him some tips. The DM would probably be amenable to letting him change his spells known.

So, in case he takes me up on it, what would you say are the five or so most useful pieces of advice I can give him? I've been playing for several years and have basic familiarity with a broad range of classes, but I'm stunned at how bad Draconic Sorceror seems to be in comparison with other subclasses.

So far I've got:
Choose spells that can perform a variety of tasks. At the same time, choose a primary role to fill. (I'm thinking ranged DPS?)
Have a few Concentration spells, but not too many.
Pace yourself depending on the likelihood of a long rest soon (though this may be hard to judge as a new player).

Other suggestions?

Thanks!

[solidork]

A Sorcerer with a PHB subclass is one of the few kinds of characters that you can mess up your build enough that you can't really contribute. You have so few spells known that you have to pick things that are versatile and useful in lots of situations - Knock is the exact kind of spell that you can't really afford to mess with.

See if your GM will give them a subclass spell list like the Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul get, that'll give them a baseline to work with and still have the opportunity to take spells that they find interesting but might not always come up.

[Sigreid]

Knock is a waste of a slot if you expect to have a rogue in the group.

You want at least 2 wildly divergent damage types.

Hypnotic Pattern can be very OP if it works out right.

[Urbanmech]

As a sorcerer your spell selection is critical. You spell choices should also reflect your metamagic picks. A sorcerer with Careful and Extend Spell will pick different options than on who selected Twin and Quicken.
So here go some general tips:
1. Try to pick spells that upcast well.
2. If it canÂ’t be upcast make sure it is worth the spell slot. Examples include Shield, Web and Hypnotic Pattern.
3. DonÂ’t take too many damage spells.
4. Try to pick Utility spells that have multiple uses. Levitate can be used to get to hard to reach areas or to levitate a foe out of melee combat.
5. Use your option to swap spells when you need it. Take Shatter at 3rd level for blasting but then trade it out for fireball at 5th level.

[meandean]

For a Tier 1 caster, firing a light crossbow is often the best resourceless option available. If they have 14 DEX, which they probably should, they're averaging 6.5 damage per hit, which is more than their cantrips.

That said, it's true that a Draconic Sorcerer isn't exactly the ideal choice if one's goal is to have the most player options. They're stereotypically blasters, but there aren't any super-great 1st/2nd-level blasting spells, and even when they get a subclass feature that theoretically distinguishes them from other blasters, it's at 6th (player) level and is limited to very specific spells¹. And, of course, sorcerers just in general don't get their signature ability until 3rd (player) level, and have limited spells known. So... yeah. Your impression of the subclass is accurate. Perhaps the player doesn't fully appreciate the potential of the spells that don't exactly jump off the page with a big damage roll, such as grease, web, and phantasmal force, or "newer" ones like silvery barbs, vortex warp, and Rime's binding ice. But if he really is there to throw fireballs around, well, he's just gotta wait a couple more levels.

(Knock theoretically goes beyond picking locks, and of course your Rogue could fail the lockpicking check anyway... but this player can't afford to devote 25% of his spells known to those rare scenarios. He absolutely should pick something else.)

¹ Transmuted Spell metamagic provides a workaround to this that is sometimes worth using, if you have an AOE spell that can hit a bunch of enemies, but is the "wrong" damage type for your ancestry. Still, you're adding 5 to a damage roll. It's not amazing.

[Sorinth]

Attacking with a Crossbow is probably a better option then a Cantrip attack a lot of the time. The question is why aren't they using leveled spells, with only 4 known spells, one of them being knock it's certainly possible they don't have any useful spells in combat.

Sleep is very strong and is arguably the go to low level option that gets swapped out later on.
Silvery Barbs is also a great choice.
Tasha's Mind Whip, Rime's Binding Ice, Web are all strong 2nd level spells

In terms of tricks
Mind Sliver followed by a Quickened CC spell is a decent little combo
Twinned Ice Knife is a nice blasty combo when two enemies are standing next to each other, but ask the DM about it first because the wording can go different ways.


The real issue is that with the limited number of spells known you can't waste a spell on something that is only occasionally useful like Knock and even "expected" spells for a mage like Detect Magic are hard to fit in.

[Kane0]

Context:

I'm playing a Changeling Aberrant Mind Sorceror and two others are playing an Assassin Rogue intending to multiclass into Death Cleric, and a Lore(?) Bard. We're level 3 and playing through Phandelver. Our tactics so far emphasize stealth, diplomacy, deception and surprise, as you might imagine. Direct confrontation is not our strong suit; the Bard in particular is about as resilient as a wet paper bag (and also a new player).

So far I've got:
Choose spells that can perform a variety of tasks. At the same time, choose a primary role to fill. (I'm thinking ranged DPS?)
Have a few Concentration spells, but not too many.
Pace yourself depending on the likelihood of a long rest soon (though this may be hard to judge as a new player).


- At such low levels, try to stick to one or two spell slots spent per fight to avoid running dry too fast and pick a cantrip that will serve you well on the rounds you aren't casting a levelled spell. A crossbow might actually be a fine choice if your Dex is decent, at least until level 5
- Draconic basically gets the benefits of a passive Mage Armor and False Life at all times, so skip those
- Try to pick spells with multiple use cases like Chill Touch, Catapult, Invisibility, Haste and Polymorph. This way you make the best of your limited number of spells known by having them pull double duty with secondary functions
- Take note of spells that upcast well and those that don't, because you may need to do some upcasting (probably not at level 3 though). Rule of thumb is upcasting a blast isn't very efficient, but upcasting to affect more targets is a better
- Try to select spells that target different saves as well as AC, and spells that will work regardless so the slot isn't wasted (which includes buffing your party as well as no-save damage or control spells)
- Don't overload on higher level spells known, you don't want to lose the majority of your spell selection once you burn those high level slots
- Don't bother getting clever with converting between slots and SP until you have some experience and can better weigh the pros and cons (it's usually a trap unless you know exactly what you're doing)
- When selecting Metamagic make sure you don't pick two expensive ones and your choices sync well with your spell selection (empower for blasts with lots of dice in one roll, twin for single target concentration spells, careful for indiscriminate spells with saves to entirely avoid, subtle for ignoring counterspell/silence/social ramifications, extend for long duration buffs that you can bring to multiple fights or long rest and still have active, etc)
- Don't forget you can swap a spell each level up, so you can pick something that will work in the short term and trade it out later when it loses its usefulness (like sleep)
- When you get that first ASI at level 4 consider Shadow Touched or Fey Touched, it's +1 to your casting stat plus two bonus spells known AND two free spell slots which is an absolute bargain

[KorvinStarmast]

Other suggestions?

Thanks! Your party does not need another sorcerer. Ask your DM if you can respec to something else.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Your party does not need another sorcerer. Ask your DM if you can respec to something else.

You're absolutely right, of course, but I like my character concept and I'm not about to tell the new guy "No, play something else."
I guess learning to play with unbalanced parties is part of learning to play D&D. :)

EDIT: For that matter it doesn't really need a Bard and a control- and deception- oriented Sorceror, either, but here we are.

[Paeleus]

Top 5 playing ANY sorcerer
1. Get a strong handle on Actions, Bonus Actions, Reactions, and Movement and how they relate to your turn or the round.
2. The 1st level spell Shield is an absolute must and should always be on your spells known list. Archers and/or Skirmishers exist.
3. Diversify your Cantrips/spell list as best you can (target save, damage/buff/debuff, etc.) and bargain shop. Alter Self is 3 spells in 1 (with an added bonus of you don't need a material component to cast this spell if a "Lose All Your Equipment" thing occurs.) One Cantrip thats deals ranged damage is kinda mandatory and one melee cantrip less so.
4. Meta-magic: Quicken and Twinned are great. Choose one or the other if you only have 2 known Meta-magic known.
a) If Quickened: Bonus Action - Level Spell, Action- Cantrip OR BA- Cantrip, A-Cantrip. No BA-Spell, A-Spell. Thems the rules. Quicken allows you to be mobile if needed. Example being using your Action to Dash in range to Quicken a Hold Person in a chase scenario.
b) If Twinned: Buffing/debuffing is your thing. Twin Haste may be the only real reason to take this, but there are certainly other solid uses.
5. Utilize spell slots wisely. Look for the most bang for your slot in any given situation. It sucks to be regulated to cantrips because you blew your resources too early on minor situations.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Hi Playgrounders,

Could you give me your 5 most important tips for playing a Draconic Sorceror as a new player?

Context:

I'm playing a Changeling Aberrant Mind Sorceror and two others are playing an Assassin Rogue intending to multiclass into Death Cleric, and a Lore(?) Bard. We're level 3 and playing through Phandelver. Our tactics so far emphasize stealth, diplomacy, deception and surprise, as you might imagine. Direct confrontation is not our strong suit; the Bard in particular is about as resilient as a wet paper bag (and also a new player).

Recently we've been joined by a new player, playing a Draconic Sorceror. I've observed that he spends most rounds firing a crossbow. I asked about this and he said most of his spells seem irrelevant to the situation. I think one of them is Knock, I'm sure about the others. I've offered to give him some tips. The DM would probably be amenable to letting him change his spells known.

So, in case he takes me up on it, what would you say are the five or so most useful pieces of advice I can give him? I've been playing for several years and have basic familiarity with a broad range of classes, but I'm stunned at how bad Draconic Sorceror seems to be in comparison with other subclasses.

So far I've got:
Choose spells that can perform a variety of tasks. At the same time, choose a primary role to fill. (I'm thinking ranged DPS?)
Have a few Concentration spells, but not too many.
Pace yourself depending on the likelihood of a long rest soon (though this may be hard to judge as a new player).

Other suggestions?

Thanks!

Well, I did play one of these and your advice to him so far seems reasonable. Given the limited # of spells (and metamagics) your spell casting really has to be focussed around 1-2 things. I think another poster mentioned it, but your spell selection needs to line up with your metamagics as much as possible, though for some levels there aren't always great spells.
For example, with Elemental Affinity, Draconic Sorc is leaning towards blaster, though that doesn't come on line until 6th; note that this ability alone can regularly tack on 20-30 hp of damage in a round. However, as another poster mentioned, 2nd level blasty spells are a shadow of 3rd level spells, so even if the player has gone with something like Empower it's not going to do much with a Shatter Spell. Soon, with Fire Dragon Sorc + Fireball + Empower (which only costs 1 point) the player can be pumping out Fireballs that average close to 40 points of damage vs. 28 at 6th level.
However, that doesn't help now. I would point out that Dragon Sorc gets an extra hp, which is the equivalent of Cleric or Bard HP, and effectively Mage Armor for free, which makes an additional 1st level slot available. These are not bad things, but I suppose if spell selection is bad, freeing up a slot doesn't really help.
We could give better advice if we knew what the metamagics were and what sort of Dragon Sorc the player was.

[KorvinStarmast]

I guess learning to play with unbalanced parties is part of learning to play D&D. :)

Yes indeed, which more or less answers your question. :smallsmile:

[Postmodernist]

Honestly, if you're playing an Aberrant Mind and this new player is playing Draconic, just let him play as a blaster. It's simpler, pretty fun, and let's you do all the subtle utility stuff. Mechanically, it's not that much more complex than shooting your crossbow. All the advice below is generally correct, but I'm gonna try and add the context of having another sorcerer in the party.

1) Get spells with multiple damage types.
2) Get spells that attack different saves.
3) If the Aberrant Mind has one set of Metamagic choices, pick a different one. Normally, Careful Spell is a subpar choice, but if you're going full blaster, it's not a terrible option, and covers bases the AM might not.
4) Let the AM take invisibility and illusion spells, as a blaster you take Fireball and Maximilian's Earthen Grasp. Keep it fun and thematic, aligned with the draconic subtype the character has chosen. A player having fun is an engaged player, and an engaged player is gonna learn more.
5) Let them learn the hard way, but with gentle assistance and asking helpful questions. Seriously. If they're just firing their crossbow, ask if they have something that might hurt more bad guys more efficiently. Ask why they took Knock - it seems like a good idea, but I bet our rogue could handle that. Irritating a player because they made "suboptimal choices," especially a new player, is gonna have the opposite effect of an engaged player. Hell, if they stick with Knock, maybe ask the DM to set up a fun situation where Knock saves the day!

I realize a lot of this is more "player" advice and less "character" advice. But the real thing in D&D is to HAVE FUN. Plus, Lost Mines of Phandelver is a pretty safe campaign, a good one for a new player to cut their teeth on. They'll be fine.

[Gtdead]

For metamagics I'd go for Twin for sure. The second is open ended. My preference is Quicken because it allows me to cast a spell and either dodge or dash. Also it allows transition into Sorlock.
If Vhuman get Fey Touched: Gift of Alacrity if DM allows the spell, otherwise get Alert.



Level 3 spells known:
Silvery Barbs, Shield, Absorb Elements (if Fey Touched)
Web, Misty Step (if no Fey Touched)

Tactics:
Use Web as the big spell, use Silvery Barbs against important targets to increase the chance to fail the rolls.
Twin Ray of Frost as the main attack option.

Level 4 pick Rime's Binding Ice.
The point here is to have a spell that is not concentration, you can twin it and twin Silvery Barbs if both of them succeed at their save roll.
At this point, this choice won't be the most significant because Web is still very strong, but eventually he may want to use his concentration for other things.

Level 5:

I'm not a huge fan of Hypnotic Pattern. However Sorcerer is a very good user with Careful metamagic and Twinned Silvery Barbs
Personally I'd go for Fireball here. It's an overtuned spell for the level and it can literally end swarmy encounters. It can be swapped out at higher levels for HP.
Normally I'd advocate for Haste, but this isn't a party that can't take advantage of it. Fly is an option though.

Level 6:

Fly unless he has a magic item that allows flight. Otherwise get Counterspell.

Level 7:

POLYMORPH. This is a great party for it. Turn Bard and Aberrant into big bad beasts.
Of course, he should ask you guys if you are ok with it. Otherwise get Dimension Door.

It may be a good idea to swap Web for Dimension Door here

Level 8: Dip Undead warlock.
Level 9: One more Warlock level, get Agonizing Blast and Eldritch Spear if you fight outdoors a lot or Repelling Blast for urban settigs and dungeon crawls.

At this point, there is a trick that may create a headache for your DM. That trick is Dimension Door up to the sky at 300 ft (if he has Eldritch Spear). It's one of the reasons I advocate for Fly.
What's more, he can twin Fly and Dimension Door himself and either you or the Bard at these heights. It's a very strong defensive action.

Now he is a Sorlock. His main form of dealing damage is EB+Quickened EB or quickened Spell. Form of Dread or Repelling Blast help with crowd control

Continue as Sorcerer. The most important spells for me are Summon Draconic Spirit (he can mount it, it provides resistance and has an AoE breath attack, really good Summon).
Eventually he will want to swap out Fly for something else, especially at level 16 where he gets his own wings. At this point he will be a 5e veteran.

[RogueJK]

Level 4 pick Rime's Binding Ice.
The point here is to have a spell that is not concentration, you can twin it and twin Silvery Barbs if both of them succeed at their save roll.

You can't Twin Rime's Binding Ice. It's an AoE cone effect. Twinned Metamagic is limited to spells that only target one creature.

[Leon]

Your party does not need another sorcerer. Ask your DM if you can respec to something else.

A bad take right there. This isn't Highlander where there can only be one of something.

A Sorcerer is a easy class to play but requires some forethought in spell choice, so certainly see if the DM is amenable to letting them change the spells around to be more useful to what they may want out of the character. What you or the forum thinks is good or bad is irrelevant other than to give suggestions for what maybe be a choice to this player to make.

[Argis13]

You can't Twin Rime's Binding Ice. It's an AoE cone effect. Twinned Metamagic is limited to spells that only target one creature.

Can't Twin Silvery Barbs either. It targets two creatures - the one you make take the lower roll and the one you give advantage to.

[Gtdead]

You can't Twin Rime's Binding Ice. It's an AoE cone effect. Twinned Metamagic is limited to spells that only target one creature.

Yeah I forgot to edit the post. At first I proposed tasha's mind whip which is a single target, but then decided to go with rime's instead and forgot to change it. I meant cast the aoe and twin barbs if needed.

However it seems that this is a mistake too due to the twin description. I considered the "can" clause of the secondary target enough to bypass the restriction, similar to how warcaster and twin enchantment work.

[Bardbarian91]

I've seen a lot of good advice here already (both player and character advice) so I'll just chip in a couple points, mostly as reinforcement:
1. Ice Knife is a spectacular spell, had a dragonborb sorcerer and it was her go to spell, especially twinned, since it lets you focus on someone or cover a bit of AoE as the situation demands, flexible, as all things sorcerer should be.
2. I double down on the Fey/Shadow Touched, a warlock in my campaign took both for Misty Step and Invisibility respectively, always good for getting out of danger in a pinch, though they could substitute for some extra mobility and defense if needed, but there are plenty of good spells for either option. Plus just having more spells known as a sorcerer is always handy.
3. The metamagic options are very important, and my personal favorites would be Empowered, Twinned, and (in some cases/spells) Heightened, but absolutely take the first two for blasting, a twinned spell can do a lot more damage than just a single crossbow shot.