Best possible fighter build 3.5

[FashnDash]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to create the best possible fighter build in 3.5e dnd and I'm looking for suggestions. If someone thinks it's best to play another fighter type class (paladin, ranger, monk, etc) I'll check out your suggestions. I can't play a barbarian and can only use up to 1 level adjustment race.

Appreciate any help that's offered.

[JNAProductions]

Best for what?

Direct damage-see Ubercharger. You'll do enough damage on the charge to paste anything remotely on your level, but not much else.
Control-trippers are pretty good.
Social abilities-don't be a Fighter.

[FashnDash]

I'll check those out. Ideally looking to do the most damage.

[Gavinfoxx]

Ubercharger.


Are you limited to the fighter CLASS or are you most interested in the fighter FLAVOR?

Can you give us a bit of context for this? What are you trying for here? Why? What's your end goal?

Being able to one shot anything statted up in a single round of melee attacks isn't that big of a deal, yaknow.

[Maat Mons]

Is there a level range you're looking at? You can get all the pieces of an ubercharger together by level 6.

The big downside of fighter is that. after you've got all the feats you need, there isn't really any point in taking more levels of it. And the downside of martials as a whole is that, after a certain point, all you're doing is incrementing you numbers, not gaining access to any new tactics.

I'm tempted to say Paladin 4 / Fighter 2. Not sure where you'd go after that though. Probably some prestige class or another. Paladin gets you good saves, which is pretty important, and a pool of Turn Undead uses to fuel Travel Devotion, which is really handy for a charger. Fighter gets you the extra feats you need to squeeze everything in by 6th level, which is the earliest possible.

[Particle_Man]

Is Tome of Battle: The Book of 9 Swords allowed?

Because you might want to look at two classes in there: Warblade and Crusader make good fighter types. Crusader is more defensive, Warblade is more offensive.

These characters get combat maneuvers (cool things you can do in combat) that usually are standard actions (so you can usually "move and do something cool). You also get stances (cool things that are "always on" although usually you can only have one stance on at a time). It is a swift action to switch between stances.

[AnonJr]

Just to echo what you've already noticed, options are going to depend very heavily on restrictions - in terms of classes available, flavour desired, and sources available.

If you're playing core-only, I've found the Horizon Tripper (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?80415-The-Horizon-Tripper-(Core-Melee-Build)) style to be really nice. I've done it a couple times and it's fairly durable, hits hard, and still has some utility outside combat. Favourite variation on the theme was a Hobgoblin Chain Master, using the Darguun Mauler feat from Races of Eberron. To be fair though - I did use the Wolf Totem Barbarian to get Improved Trip more easily, though you could do that with 2 levels of Fighter instead if you're really careful with stat placement. I built on the Combat Reflexes/Trip with Backstab, Knock-Down, and later Power Attack. Due to life circumstances the game had to be abandoned around Level 9 or so... forever stuck in the ruins we were forcefully teleported to, one of our group covered in a poison spider swarm. :smalleek:

If you have PHBII available, and you don't mind a smidge of spellcasting for support, a Duskblade is a nice, simple option. It's my current character (slight hiatus, though now that some things have cleared up we should be picking back up again soon). Knowledge Devotion has been a huge boon with high Int and all those Knowledges available. There's a handbook or two around, though I deviated from the "optimal" path for flavour and to keep par with the group.

Similar to the Duskblade, you could also go with Psychic Warrior from Expanded Psionics for a different take - though talk to your GM about possibly bumping the BAB up to full. It's a crime that they don't given comparable classes, and given the limited list of powers and very limited power points it won't break anything.

[Rleonardh]

Could do a cleric, it's not Uber charger but a charger with 19 levels of cleric.
Acf barbarian pounce, can add in contemplative at some point.

Cleric 4/barbarian 1/cleric 15
H extra turning
1 power attack
1cd healing devotion
3 improved bull rush
6 leap attack
9 shock trooper
12 Craft wondrous items or touch of healing
15 iron will
18 great fortitude

[sleepyphoenixx]

If barbarian is out you'll want to get another way to pounce or not build an ubercharger.
Thankfully there are several ways to build an effective melee char in 3.5, though charging is usually the easiest to optimize.

I suggest checking out Person Man's Guide to Melee Combos (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?127026-3-X-Person-Man-s-Guide-to-Melee-Combos) to figure out what fighting style you want to go for first.

[Biggus]

If barbarian is out you'll want to get another way to pounce or not build an ubercharger.


Help with that: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?103358-3-X-Ways-to-get-Pounce-or-Free-Movement

Edit: here might be a better list, under P for pounce: http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1412.0

[Gavinfoxx]

What sources do you have available?

How about human Warblade 20? That's a great Fighter.

Also, we need wayyyyy more info than your edit provides...

[pabelfly]

Hi everyone, I'm looking to create the best possible fighter build in 3.5e dnd and I'm looking for suggestions. If someone thinks it's best to play another fighter type class (paladin, ranger, monk, etc) I'll check out your suggestions. I can't play a barbarian and can only use up to 1 level adjustment race.

Appreciate any help that's offered.

I am wondering if there is a misunderstanding of sorts here that needs to be cleared up.

You're after the "best possible fighter build" and are looking to do "the most damage". Okay, but there's two problems with that.

First problem: DnD is more than just about the damage you can do per round. A character also needs to be able to defend itself from all sorts of attacks, deal with skill checks in and out of combat, and so forth. If you maximize the amount of damage that you can do, you don't get to use resources to help with other quite important parts of the game. And after you've maximized damage output so you're a kickass fighter, you're not going to have anything worthwhile to do out of combat, and that's no fun.

Second problem: you don't actually need to do the most damage, you just need to do a decent amount of damage. If you do ridiculous amounts of damage, the DM is not going to let you play the character, nerf you directly, or buff your enemies directly or indirectly. In any case, you've wasted build resources. If somehow you're not nerfed and you're just outshining everyone else, that becomes unfun for everyone else rather quickly, and then the DM is going to start thinking about character nerfs anyway.

My suggestion:
1) Find out what level range the character is for and get any campaign-relevant information that might influence your build. This includes any homebrew rules, information about enemies you might face, what sourcebooks are available and what aren't, and so forth.
2) Work out any character goals beforehand - a combat style you want, a weapon type you want to use, or a race or class you think might be interesting. After that, try to work out what you need to do to get a reasonable amount of damage, and to keep it reasonable through your campaign. Any spare resources after that can go into improving stuff that isn't damage.

[Rleonardh]

I am wondering if there is a misunderstanding of sorts here that needs to be cleared up.

You're after the "best possible fighter build" and are looking to do "the most damage". Okay, but there's two problems with that.

First problem: DnD is more than just about the damage you can do per round. A character also needs to be able to defend itself from all sorts of attacks, deal with skill checks in and out of combat, and so forth. If you maximize the amount of damage that you can do, you don't get to use resources to help with other quite important parts of the game. And after you've maximized damage output so you're a kickass fighter, you're not going to have anything worthwhile to do out of combat, and that's no fun.

Second problem: you don't actually need to do the most damage, you just need to do a decent amount of damage. If you do ridiculous amounts of damage, the DM is not going to let you play the character, nerf you directly, or buff your enemies directly or indirectly. In any case, you've wasted build resources. If somehow you're not nerfed and you're just outshining everyone else, that becomes unfun for everyone else rather quickly, and then the DM is going to start thinking about character nerfs anyway.

My suggestion:
1) Find out what level range the character is for and get any campaign-relevant information that might influence your build. This includes any homebrew rules, information about enemies you might face, what sourcebooks are available and what aren't, and so forth.
2) Work out any character goals beforehand - a combat style you want, a weapon type you want to use, or a race or class you think might be interesting. After that, try to work out what you need to do to get a reasonable amount of damage, and to keep it reasonable through your campaign. Any spare resources after that can go into improving stuff that isn't damage.

Why cleric is so good, even with the leap attack tree it has other uses and you can purposely nuff yourself if you needed and still contribute.

To me fighter never means fighter class so definitely need more info.

[as91]

I think a lot more info needs to be given. All of the classes you list are core. Is the game core only or otherwise restricted? Why can't you play a barbarian? Has the DM banned barbarian?

Most of the options that can be suggested to improve or chose over fighter exist outside core. If the DM has banned barbarian you should honestly just not join their game to save yourself from wasted time on a bad play experience.

[AsuraKyoko]

I think a lot more info needs to be given. All of the classes you list are core. Is the game core only or otherwise restricted? Why can't you play a barbarian? Has the DM banned barbarian?

Most of the options that can be suggested to improve or chose over fighter exist outside core. If the DM has banned barbarian you should honestly just not join their game to save yourself from wasted time on a bad play experience.

I mean, you can get a passable Ubercharger with core only, you just don't get the stuff that pushes it all the way above and beyond.

In core, you have:

Power Attack
Lance
Spirited Charge


A Human Fighter with these feats (and their prerequisites) comes online at level 2, and (assuming 16 Str) can deal 3d8+24 on a hit. With Ride-by-Attack, which is a prerequisite for Spirited Charge, you can do it every round. Sure, you aren't doing the absolutely bonkers numbers, and you are dependent on a mount, but it's some very real damage regardless.

---------

All that being said, I agree with the rest of the thread: we need some more information on what, specifically, the OP wants. Does "fighter" mean the Fighter class, or just mean melee combatant in general? What sources are allowed? And, probably most importantly: how experienced are the other players?

We probably don't want to be suggesting an optimized ubercharger for a group's first game; it would absolutely destroy any balance within the party, outshining everyone else in combat, while also making it really hard for the DM to actually challenge.

[Batcathat]

If the DM has banned barbarian you should honestly just not join their game to save yourself from wasted time on a bad play experience.

Even assuming the reason the OP can't play barbarian is that the GM banned it, saying that it'll be a bad experience knowing literally nothing else seems rather harsh. Yes, banning a class could be a bad sign, but it hardly has to be.

[pabelfly]

We probably don't want to be suggesting an optimized ubercharger for a group's first game; it would absolutely destroy any balance within the party, outshining everyone else in combat, while also making it really hard for the DM to actually challenge.

Easiest way to deal with this as a DM would be to start throwing swarms, large groups of weak but intelligent enemies, and aerial creatures at the opponent. If you need to run combat against small groups or a single opponent, use obstacles and rough terrain to make charging harder. And if you really, really want to counter them, add the feat Elusive Target.

If the DM starts doing some of that, the player with an optimised ubercgarger has just spent a whole bunch of resources on their character that's not going to be able to do what they've spent the resources of their character to do. So optimise, but not to excess.

[as91]

Even assuming the reason the OP can't play barbarian is that the GM banned it, saying that it'll be a bad experience knowing literally nothing else seems rather harsh. Yes, banning a class could be a bad sign, but it hardly has to be.

I can definitely imagine cases where a DM might ban a core martial class or classes for flavor reasons, preference for non-core martials, or trying to protect a new player from monk. That said I think it's fair to say that even one off games take a not insignificant time commitment and so having some heuristics to use for choosing to play in a game or not is just common sense. If barbarian is banned but the other core martials are not as this hypothetical assumes? That sounds like a DM with an extremely poor kneejerk reaction to a martial doing well at the one thing martials can do well- damage. Which would indicate a bad understanding of the system and thus increase assumed odds of them not running a fun game.

[DivineOnTheMind]

Did you paste this same thread on reddit yesterday? There was a nearly identical question where I think I took the "Fighter" word too seriously and took that as a straightclassed build request and posted something like:

Half-Minotaur Feral Fire Elf Fighter 18
ACFs: Resolute, Dungeoncrasher, Overpowering Attack
Feats: Power Attack (1), Improved Bull Rush (1F), [Dungeoncrasher] (2F), Knock-back (3), Combat Reflexes (4), [Dungeoncrasher] (6F), Shock Trooper (6), [Resolute] (8F), Mage Slayer (9), Blind-Fight (10F), Pierce Magical Concealment (12), Robilar's Gambit (12F), Improved Sunder (14F), Combat Brute (15), Overpowering Attack (16F), Leap Attack (18), Defensive Sweep (18F)

Reach weapon for 15ft radius threat range (adjacent squares threatened by gore attack and/or armor spikes)

Pounce from Feral, Bull-Rush Billiards from the Knockback/Shock Trooper/Dungeoncrasher mix
Counter-magic through Resolute, Pierce Magical Concealment and Mage Slayer
Fire Elf just because the ability penalties were starting to stack up more than I liked.


But I think I missed the LA requirement, and flexibility to move away from the actual Fighter class, so I'd just second the Tome of Battle suggestions, no level adjustment.
Crusader is a serious tank at low levels, and Warblade is just a well-rounded chassis for melee.
If you're aiming for higher levels, might need to get spellcasting involved and run something like a Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator.

It's usually hard to take a character past level 10 or so without access to some sort of power source like spells, psionics, maneuvers, or whatever, even if you're swinging a sword at stuff.

[Soranar]

Ok well how about this

Race: Human or strongheart halfling
Template: none

mount: start with a heavy horse, switch to a rhinoceros at level 7 (per DMG rules it means your paladin level is -2 for your mount abilities which is totally worth it and it doesn't cost a feat)

Level 1 Mounted Combat, Serenity
Level 3 From smite to song
Level 6 Ride-by attack
Level 9 Spirited Charge

smite evil doesn't work against everything but from smite to song does and it boosts you and your allies
serenity removes your MAD, you only need STR, CON and WIS, your main STAT should be WIS to improve your saves as much as possible
being mounted, your basic paladin spells are plenty strong (rhino's rush for damage, knight's move for teleport)

you can manage decent damage without iteratives with a charging mount:

a lance (x2) using spirited charge (x3) and rhino's rush (x4) + a valorous enchant (x5) deals plenty of damage

meanwhile your rhino deals 8d6+48 damage on a charge as long as you cast rhino's rush while you charge (swift action so no reason not to)

if you play from level 1-4, switch mounted combat for wild cohort and retrain the feat at level 5

[AsuraKyoko]

Easiest way to deal with this as a DM would be to start throwing swarms, large groups of weak but intelligent enemies, and aerial creatures at the opponent. If you need to run combat against small groups or a single opponent, use obstacles and rough terrain to make charging harder. And if you really, really want to counter them, add the feat Elusive Target.

If the DM starts doing some of that, the player with an optimised ubercgarger has just spent a whole bunch of resources on their character that's not going to be able to do what they've spent the resources of their character to do. So optimise, but not to excess.

Yeah, there's definitely a bunch of ways that a DM can handle an ubercharger, and they aren't all that hard. The thing is, a new DM might not know any of that. I know that I didn't ever really understand how swarms worked until a few years after I started playing, nor did I know that difficult terrain prevented charges. Maybe I would have thought of using a bunch of weaker enemies, but there is a natural urge to counteract Big Damage Guy with a Bigger Beefier Monster.

Basically, all I'm saying is that you should optimize to the table. Way back when I first started, and thought that the only really worthwhile spells either dealt or healed damage, our party was honestly quite balanced: we had a sword-and-board fighter, a blaster sorcerer, a rogue who dual-wielded nunchucks because she thought they were cool, a cleric who primarily cast cure and inflict spells, and a druid who mostly turned into a bear and mauled things while occasionally using spells to blast and heal.

We all thought that spellcasting was the most powerful thing ever, because the sorcerer could blast down a whole room of orcs in one turn, but honestly, nobody really ever outshined anyone else. Even once we got more splatbooks and added prestige classes into the mix, we didn't really change anything up. The druid went into Daggerspell Shaper so that she could get weapon enchantments on her claws (Amulet of Might Fists, what's that?). The Rogue went into assassin because Death Attack was so awesome, the sorcerer did some retraining into wizard and went Ultimate Magus, the Fighter went into Dwarven Defender, and I think the cleric stayed single class.

That was what we considered "optimization", and, honestly, more or less what WotC probably expected players to do. had the Fighter made himself into an ubercharger we would have been utterly blown away. Our DM would have absolutely had difficulty handling it (though probably would have figured out better solutions than I would have at the time), and we almost certainly would have concluded that Fighter was the best class in the game.

Anyways, my rambling example aside, don't overdo things, especially for newer players. Hence why it's important to know what the experience and system mastery levels of the group are before we do more than give cursory advice.

[Rleonardh]

Gotta agree with last post, there different types of fun, sometimes it's op builds sometimes it's a roleplaying build other times it both.

I usually try to build characters that are a mix.
If spell casters I take spells that can impact role playing as much as combat.

Also of note just because you may have the op build, mega experience at the game does not mean you must have the spotlight. That sometimes the hardest thing to do once you learn character builds and monsters by heart.