How does necromancy work?

[jjordan]

As the title says. Is there an official explanation? A generally accepted un-official explanation? Do necromancers summon dark energy/creatures from another place to animate the corpses of the dead? Do they bind the souls unwillingly to their corpses?

[quindraco]

As the title says. Is there an official explanation? A generally accepted un-official explanation? Do necromancers summon dark energy/creatures from another place to animate the corpses of the dead? Do they bind the souls unwillingly to their corpses?

Not really, just like there's no really official explanation in the general case for what the hell is animating your Animate Objects minions. Ask your DM (or if you're the DM, make something up).

[Doug Lampert]

As the title says. Is there an official explanation? A generally accepted un-official explanation? Do necromancers summon dark energy/creatures from another place to animate the corpses of the dead? Do they bind the souls unwillingly to their corpses?

5th edition and 3rd are different here.

3.5 the undead were animated by negative energy in the same way that living creatures are animated by positive energy. All intelligent undead are reputed to be claimed in the undead focused splat to have the soul of the actual person inside the undead, this includes undead which are not templates and thus is at least similar to Durkon's soul being trapped inside Greg for all but the voluntary undead (such as liches).

3rd edition even unintelligent undead must involve the prior living creature's soul or life force in some manner, as is demonstrated by the fact that even spells like True Resurrection which do not need the body at all will not work in 3.0 or 3.5 if the former body is now animated as an undead.

At least in 5th edition, I know of no equivalent prohibition on true resurrection of someone whose body is now undead, the spell appears to work fine. This implies that in 5th edition the Soul is NOT involved in undead creation. Presumably in 5th I could true resurrect a vampire or lich and there'd then be two of them wandering around (one undead and one living), which means that the liches are just undead copies of powerful spell-casters, and the actual soul has gone on to it's final "reward".

[JackPhoenix]

At least in 5th edition, I know of no equivalent prohibition on true resurrection of someone whose body is now undead, the spell appears to work fine. This implies that in 5th edition the Soul is NOT involved in undead creation. Presumably in 5th I could true resurrect a vampire or lich and there'd then be two of them wandering around (one undead and one living), which means that the liches are just undead copies of powerful spell-casters, and the actual soul has gone on to it's final "reward".

You have to touch the body you want to TR, so no, you can't resurrect a vampire and somehow get another body for some reason. You only create new body if the original no longer exists.

As for how undead work, read their specific entries in the Monster Manual (or other books).

[Sigreid]

There have been a few official explanations over the editions. Don't think this one has put that much thought into it.

[Mellack]

You have to touch the body you want to TR, so no, you can't resurrect a vampire and somehow get another body for some reason. You only create new body if the original no longer exists.

As for how undead work, read their specific entries in the Monster Manual (or other books).

You don't actually need a body at all. The spell can create a new one, you just need to get rid of the old one first.

"The spell can even provide a new body if the original no longer exists, in which case you must speak the creature's name. The creature then appears in an unoccupied space you choose within 10 feet of you."

[Yakk]

Magic short of True Resurrection cannot bring back someone who is undead.

True Resurrection requires you to touch the undead body.

I model the difference between Undeath is that Undeath is animating the pre-existing *soul* for that body, while Golems/Constructs are animating the matter. Undeath uses the soul's leftover attachment to that body, and grabs ahold of it.

[ff7hero]

You don't actually need a body at all. The spell can create a new one, you just need to get rid of the old one first.

"The spell can even provide a new body if the original no longer exists, in which case you must speak the creature's name. The creature then appears in an unoccupied space you choose within 10 feet of you."

If the body is walking around as an undead, it exists. If you can touch the undead for the hour you spend casting True Res though you're golden.

[Phhase]

:redcloak: "You treat them like they're people when they're nothing but bits of skin and bone and dark energy glued together by magic into the shape of a man."

Pretty much summarizes my stance, at least on undead whose intelligence does not inherit from the original creature.

[Millstone85]

3.5 the undead were animated by negative energy in the same way that living creatures are animated by positive energy.That part still holds true in 5e. As per the PHB page 300, the Positive Plane is the source of the raw life force that suffuses all living beings while the Negative Plane is the source of the necrotic energy that animates the undead.


liches are just undead copies of powerful spell-casters, and the actual soul has gone on to it's final "reward".You are wrong here. "A lich is created by an arcane ritual that traps the wizard's soul within a phylactery. Doing so binds the soul to the mortal world , preventing it from traveling to the Outer Planes after death" (MM p203). Unless that was the "reward" you were referring to.


If the body is walking around as an undead, it exists.Official rulings suggest that is not the case. Instead, the game logic goes:


humanoid creature
---0hp--->
humanoid corpse
---revivify--->
humanoid creature


humanoid creature
---0hp--->
humanoid corpse
---animate--->
undead creature


undead creature
---0hp--->
undead corpse
---revivify--->
undead creature


Which means the original body is effectively consumed in the creation of a new creature.

[Unoriginal]

As the title says. Is there an official explanation? A generally accepted un-official explanation? Do necromancers summon dark energy/creatures from another place to animate the corpses of the dead? Do they bind the souls unwillingly to their corpses?

As per the PHB and the MM, the spell Animate Dead is specifically shoving a malevolent spirit from the Shadowfell into a corpse, and enslaving said spirit, which is just sapient enough to desire killing anying that lives within their field of perception if you create a zombie, while a skeleton both desires to kill anything that lives and gets the habits of the corpse you're shoving the spirit into.

Animate dead isn't powerful enough to affect the afterlife of the soul of the humanoid of the corpse you're using, but since you're turning the corpse into an undead you're limiting the meansof bringing the humanoid to life *a lot*.


But Necromancy is far from limited to the Animate Dead spell, and undead are not all Skeletons and Zombies.

[JackPhoenix]

Official rulings suggest that is not the case. Instead, the game logic goes:


humanoid creature
---0hp--->
humanoid corpse
---revivify--->
humanoid creature


humanoid creature
---0hp--->
humanoid corpse
---animate--->
undead creature


undead creature
---0hp--->
undead corpse
---revivify--->
undead creature


Which means the original body is effectively consumed in the creation of a new creature.

Not really. The body isn't consumed, it's still right there, the creature just uses different statistics and require True Resurrection (or Wish) to undo the changes.

[Millstone85]

Not really. The body isn't consumed, it's still right there, the creature just uses different statistics and require True Resurrection (or Wish) to undo the changes.Yes, you are right. This also goes well with the Revivify ruling, but it avoids the meet-your-own-undead paradox after True Resurrection.

[JackPhoenix]

Yes, you are right. This also goes well with the Revivify ruling, but it avoids the meet-your-own-undead paradox after True Resurrection.

If the undead has a physical body still shuffling around? You can't use TR to create a new body, as the old one wasn't destroyed. If the undead is incorporeal and the body was destroyed? The soul isn't free and willing to return. The one exception I can think of is Shadow, which explicitly mentions the possibility of going after the resurrected version of itself, but then, shadows aren't really undead in a classical sense, despite their creature type.

[Thunderous Mojo]

If the body is walking around as an undead, it exists. If you can touch the undead for the hour you spend casting True Res though you're golden.

True Resurrection also has the verbiage about he soul being willing and free. So, I do not believe you could say incapacitate a Vampire and make them alive again, against their will.

Presumably, you would have to dispatch their undead form first, to release the soul.

[Psyren]

As the title says. Is there an official explanation? A generally accepted un-official explanation? Do necromancers summon dark energy/creatures from another place to animate the corpses of the dead? Do they bind the souls unwillingly to their corpses?

The mechanics are largely up to you, however note this line from the PHB:

"Creating the undead through the use of necromancy spells such as animate dead is not a good act, and only evil casters use such spells frequently."

This suggests what you're doing when you animate undead is harmful in some way; whether that is to the soul or the environment (or both) is up to your DM.

[Sigreid]

:redcloak: "You treat them like they're people when they're nothing but bits of skin and bone and dark energy glued together by magic into the shape of a man."

Pretty much summarizes my stance, at least on undead whose intelligence does not inherit from the original creature.

Intelligent undead are, in my opinion, a consciousness (soul?) trapped in a dead, lifeless body. Sure, it can move around and all that, but it kind of sounds like their own personal hell to me.

[LibraryOgre]

My version:

Necromancy is about manipulating Positive and Negative energy. Evocation is other energy, Conjuration is things and beings, but Necromancy is the Positive and Negative material planes.

Some simple necromancies just do that... 3.x has "Disrupt Undead", which is "Slap Undead with positive energy." Cure Wounds is another simple necromancy of that style, no matter what the PH says. Negative energy necromancies draw upon that power of unlife in the Negative Material Plane.

So, what happens when you make undead?

You create a pocket of negative energy inside a corpse, and draw a spirit in to inhabit that pocket. In the pocket, they can thrive, even control the corpse they are inside. Some of these spirits are very simple (skeletons, zombies). Others are smarter, or more powerful, or both, creating the more powerful undead. Incorporeal undead are simply pockets of negative energy, inhabited by a being.

(A similar process brings people back to life. A positively-aligned undead is a very difficult trick, since you're trying to bind LIFE to NOTLIFE).

[Damon_Tor]

It's always seemed to me that undeath is what happens when either the soul or the body acts on the mortal plane without the other. In my mind that means that things like zombies and skeletons don't have a soul at all, so I don't see why some wizard with a very particular fetish couldn't die, return as a clone, then animate their corpse as a zombie just for kicks.

Intelligent undead like liches and vampires are generally formed by the soul of the individual continuing to operate the body. Liches do this remotely, the phylactery protecting the soul from the normal processes of death. In my headcanon vampires feed not just on blood, but on the soul of the victim. A vampire spawn is piloted by it's soul remotely, like a lich, except that the soul is housed inside the vampire lord. When the vampire "uplifts" a spawn by feeding it his blood, he's really giving the spawn it's own soul back.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Personal canon--

Undead are the result of an "entropy spirit", effectively the opposite of a fey spirit, takes up residence in a dead body or grabs a spirit as it passes Beyond, hijacking the nimbus. This entity exists only to consume everything around it. Not out of hunger, but because its existence is antithetical to life and, well, existence. While this effect is small for the "lesser" undead, sufficient time or concentration can drain the life out of everything around it. First the small things die or have reduced fertility--plants don't germinate well, moss doesn't grow, the little grasses and insects die off. Then the same starts applying to larger life. Eventually, the area becomes sterile before the rocks themselves start breaking down, as their substance is a form of the same energy as life, just more...condensed. Larger undead need to actively feed; smaller undead simply want to destroy. If "want" is even the right word. They can be chained by magic, but this is not trivial and they're constantly fighting the control. And the very presence of jotnar (these entropy spirits) on this plane weakens the veil, allowing more of their kind to slip through, as well as corrupting the afterlife in that area[1]. Resurrection spells use the corpse as a template (except TR), and that template is corrupted by the presence of a jotnar.

Thus, the creation of permanent undead involves tearing the veil and summoning one of these "jotnar" into a corpse. Not exactly a world-friendly event. Danse

[1] my planar cosmology and afterlife is very different; suffice it to say that it happens in the liminal plane between the material and all the other planes. Passing jotnar through that weakens the boundaries of the Abyss and allows both jotnar and demons[2] to slip through easier. The liminal plane itself changes, becoming hostile to the spirits that remain there.
[2] which are undead taken to the next level--when a living soul cages a jotnar inside of it, feeding it souls in return for power and immortality...but being at risk of being consumed themselves. They are in the Abyss, which is where the Oblivion Gate that is the point of origin of the jotnar is. Basically, the demons are a "plug" in the abyss, there to attract the jotnar to keep them from flooding out. An imperfect one, to be sure.

[Naanomi]

I tend to go with a pretty 2e/3e model... Souls (or Animus for non-intelligent things) are complex Positive Energy construct that allow things to grow and change (include, once tied up into an astral construct through lived experiences, includes changing into a petitioner on death).

Necromancy is the art of creating a Negative Energy construct to act as a 'fake soul'; either to get a body to move around and do stuff, tie to an astral echo (as an incorporeal undead), or just be disembodied forces (like a Shadow). The whole process is sort of 'backwards' from the natural flow of things, and that disconnect (as well as negative energy's natural destructive nature manifesting behaviorally) is why undead trend so strongly to Evil alignments