[5e] DM allows variant humans to trade out their bonus feat for natural-born lycan

[Zhentarim]

[5e] DM allows variant humans to trade out their bonus feat for natural-born lycanthropy-- he gives the option of:

boar, tiger, wolf, rat, raven, bear

I'm leaning towards tiger.

What class lends itself as a good compliment to a weretiger?

EDIT: Multiclassing is allowed and we are using 27 pointbuy in this game.

2nd Edit: Game is in session now. I ran through the character creator again, scrapping my weretiger monk idea to create a werebear cleric instead. Go to post number 24 by clicking this link (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?647285-5e-DM-allows-variant-humans-to-trade-out-their-bonus-feat-for-natural-born-lycan&p=25512583#post25512583). From that post onwards, I am talking about an already created character.

[JNAProductions]

What benefits does it give?

Because full-on lycanthropy is bonkers, especially at level one.

[nickl_2000]

Sidekick classes lend well towards Lycans since they are NPCs most of the time...


Otherwise, I would be looking at melee since you will be immune to many attacks making you an incredible tank.

Personally I would go with Monk because it would give me the ability get into combat and help others quickly and still take abuse.

Ranger would be very fitting to their personality.

Really anything but Barbarians since the immunity makes rage pretty pointless.

[Bardbarian91]

I agree with the point about Monk, since you won't be wearing armor or hindered by transforming, leaving you with all of your Monk benefits, not unlike a wild shaped Druid with Monk levels

[Zhentarim]

Sidekick classes lend well towards Lycans since they are NPCs most of the time...


Otherwise, I would be looking at melee since you will be immune to many attacks making you an incredible tank.

Personally I would go with Monk because it would give me the ability get into combat and help others quickly and still take abuse.

Ranger would be very fitting to their personality.

Really anything but Barbarians since the immunity makes rage pretty pointless.


I agree with the point about Monk, since you won't be wearing armor or hindered by transforming, leaving you with all of your Monk benefits, not unlike a wild shaped Druid with Monk levels

I was thinking either monk or abjuration wizard, since abjuration wizards can counter spells, and thus would make me strong against both spell attacks as well as physical attacks as well.

On the other hand, a monk sounds interesting, and "way of the drunken master" sounds humorous to me, and being a drunk tiger even moreso, for some reason.

[Bardbarian91]

I was thinking either monk or abjuration wizard, since abjuration wizards can counter spells, and thus would make me strong against both spell attacks as well as physical attacks as well.

On the other hand, a monk sounds interesting, and "way of the drunken master" sounds humorous to me, and being a drunk tiger even moreso, for some reason.

Good points on both, I adore abjuration wizard because I like being a defensive/support/tank character at any given time, and had a fun time with a one shot playing a Levistus trifling abjuration wizard - I managed to keep the party's Monk from going down twice in one fight just by using my reaction to throw my ward their way, in addition to one time I cast a fireball and threw them my ward since they were surrounded by all of the enemies.

Drunk tiger does sound hilarious! I'm picturing a watching a cross between Kung fu panda and forbidden kingdom (specifically Jackie Chan's drunken master from that movie), and honestly it gives you some fun roleplay opportunity. In the first campaign I ran, one of my most difficult players went drunken master, but he didn't see any point for some reason in getting drunk so I said if he's drunk I'll give him +1 AC, and +2 to Persuasion checks but disadvantage (because more limber, and more charming, but probably difficult to persuade someone without someone helping negate the disadvantage by propping him up a little, "don't worry, he actually knows what he's doing, he just gets like this sometimes. Maybe a lot of times,") but that campaign was an unmitigated nightmare for a host of reasons. I'm sure you could find plenty of great character moments in a drunken weretiger.

[Zhentarim]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a4gZ5ybXnZnhb7p5oHUrij1Dr9utdX41zUKFkvkcROQ/edit

Above, this like is to the house rules of this setting. Also, about 30% of humans are werecreatures of some kind, 20% of humans are flat-out immune to lycanthropy, and 50% of humans don't want to be lycanthropes but aren't immune, either. There exists an anti-lycanthrope terrorist organization called "the silver hands" who consider themselves also anti-monarchy, as well. Silver weapons are considered the default weapon material.

From least common (wereboars) to most common (werewolves):

Wereboar (exiled to the far south about 100 years ago)
Wererats (integrated into society)
Werebears (integrated into society)
Wereravens (integrated into society)
Weretigers (integrated into society)
Werewolves (integrated into society)

The world is 3000 years old, but werecreatures weren't well-known by nonweres until 200 years ago, when a king of Tylot (the northernmost kingdom) learned about werecreatures, killed off the council of the moon (who was a historical group who worked to keep the werecreatures secret), turned their military into lycanthropes, and launched a war of continental unification, nearly uniting the continent except for a small strip of badlands in the far south nobody really wanted in the first place.

[Bardbarian91]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a4gZ5ybXnZnhb7p5oHUrij1Dr9utdX41zUKFkvkcROQ/edit

Above, this like is to the house rules of this setting. Also, about 30% of humans are werecreatures of some kind, 20% of humans are flat-out immune to lycanthropy, and 50% of humans don't want to be lycanthropes but aren't immune, either. There exists an anti-lycanthrope terrorist organization called "the silver hands" who consider themselves also anti-monarchy, as well. Silver weapons are considered the default weapon material.

From least common (wereboars) to most common (werewolves):

Wereboar (exiled to the far south about 100 years ago)
Wererats (integrated into society)
Werebears (integrated into society)
Wereravens (integrated into society)
Weretigers (integrated into society)
Werewolves (integrated into society)

The world is 3000 years old, but werecreatures weren't well-known by nonweres until 200 years ago, when a king of Tylot (the northernmost kingdom) learned about werecreatures, killed off the council of the moon (who was a historical group who worked to keep the werecreatures secret), turned their military into lycanthropes, and launched a war of continental unification, nearly uniting the continent except for a small strip of badlands in the far south nobody really wanted in the first place.

Interesting...I like the setting and obvious planning here! The immunity makes less of a big deal if silver weapons are the default, though it can be used in other peculiar ways, like as a test for weres, perhaps? Or do you only have the immunity when transformed? Fairly certain it's constant but I've been wrong before. But if it's a constant then I could see the silver Hands using a non-silver dagger to prick themselves and each other, to prevent infiltration.

[Zhentarim]

Interesting...I like the setting and obvious planning here! The immunity makes less of a big deal if silver weapons are the default, though it can be used in other peculiar ways, like as a test for weres, perhaps? Or do you only have the immunity when transformed? Fairly certain it's constant but I've been wrong before. But if it's a constant then I could see the silver Hands using a non-silver dagger to prick themselves and each other, to prevent infiltration.

We have a massive starting party for this game: We start at level 2, and everyone just finished making their characters. I'm a level 2 weretiger monk with the Sage background. Being a variant human granted me Investigation proficiency as well as Giant Language proficiency. My Background as a Sage granted me Arcana proficiency and History proficiency. Monk gave me Acrobatics Proficiency and Athletics Proficiency. When I made my backstory, I named my character Leonardo Lionhart. I decided to link my backstory with Brenna, who is a Wereraven Ranger with the Urchin background.

Jason -- Tiefling Artificer (Sage, Researcher )
Adora – High Elf Ranger/Rogue multiclass
Cole – Half-Orc Paladin (Ancients)
Raxtus48 – Fighter/Warlock Multiclass
Solidarity – Human (Weretiger) Monk, (This is me)
TC – Human (Wereraven) Ranger (This is Brenna)
Unsocialpluto25 --Rogue halfling



Brenna was born in the southern grasslands to two wereraven parents that were just looking to get away from it all. Secluded in their homestead, they thought they were free from the tragedies of modern life. However, they were mistaken. Her family ripped apart by death, Brenna was forced to leave as she made her way to Lake Side, where other wereravens were known to reside. In Lake Side she found no solace like in her homestead until she met a weretiger by the name of Leonardo Lionheart.

Leonardo was a scholar like his mother and father before him. Born a weretiger he studied history at the Royal Lake Side Academy from a young age. One day, some monks on a pilgrimage stopped in town for supplies. Leonardo became enamored with their teachings and began to learn about honing his body as well as his mind. Leonardo found Brenna, a young street urchin, who he helped and taught.

I've never played a Monk before, but seeing how the Artificier is going to be our only dedicated full caster, I feel a bit of buyers remorse not choosing Bard or Cleric or Wizard. I also wonder if I should have picked Werebear instead of Weretiger. I play bards for about half my characters, though, Rogues are about a third of the time, and wizards about a sixth of the time, so I figured it was time to try a different concept.

I'm considering going with being a Kensai monk, since while I like the flavor of the Drunken Monk, the mechanics are a bit lackluster.

My weretiger is Lawful Good, but the Weretiger population is 80% Lawful Evil in this setting since the DM has scrambled the typical alignments of the werebeasts (other changes would be that werebears are 80% NG, wereravens are 80% LG, werewolves are 80% NE, wereboars are 80% CE, and wererats are 80% CG). That makes me think I should take a subclass like way of Mercy. I'm considering multiclassing at some point because I've only ever single classed in games. When I did pointbuy, I picked these stats:
8 str (will increase to 17 at level 5 due to Weretiger Lycanthropy Feat)
16 dex
13 con
12 int (not optimized for monk, but with my academic background, putting an 8 here just felt wrong)
16 wis
8 cha

What is the key to playing a good monk in terms of combat style, subclasses, and feats/ASI?

[Bardbarian91]

We have a massive starting party for this game: We start at level 2, and everyone just finished making their characters. I'm a level 2 weretiger monk with the Sage background. Being a variant human granted me Investigation proficiency as well as Giant Language proficiency. My Background as a Sage granted me Arcana proficiency and History proficiency. Monk gave me Acrobatics Proficiency and Athletics Proficiency. When I made my backstory, I named my character Leonardo Lionhart. I decided to link my backstory with Brenna, who is a Wereraven Ranger with the Urchin background.

Jason -- Tiefling Artificer (Sage, Researcher )
Adora – High Elf Ranger/Rogue multiclass
Cole – Half-Orc Paladin (Ancients)
Raxtus48 – Fighter/Warlock Multiclass
Solidarity – Human (Weretiger) Monk, (This is me)
TC – Human (Wereraven) Ranger (This is Brenna)
Unsocialpluto25 --Rogue halfling



Brenna was born in the southern grasslands to two wereraven parents that were just looking to get away from it all. Secluded in their homestead, they thought they were free from the tragedies of modern life. However, they were mistaken. Her family ripped apart by death, Brenna was forced to leave as she made her way to Lake Side, where other wereravens were known to reside. In Lake Side she found no solace like in her homestead until she met a weretiger by the name of Leonardo Lionheart.

Leonardo was a scholar like his mother and father before him. Born a weretiger he studied history at the Royal Lake Side Academy from a young age. One day, some monks on a pilgrimage stopped in town for supplies. Leonardo became enamored with their teachings and began to learn about honing his body as well as his mind. Leonardo found Brenna, a young street urchin, who he helped and taught.

I've never played a Monk before, but seeing how the Artificier is going to be our only dedicated full caster, I feel a bit of buyers remorse not choosing Bard or Cleric or Wizard. I also wonder if I should have picked Werebear instead of Weretiger. I play bards for about half my characters, though, Rogues are about a third of the time, and wizards about a sixth of the time, so I figured it was time to try a different concept.

I'm considering going with being a Kensai monk, since while I like the flavor of the Drunken Monk, the mechanics are a bit lackluster.

My weretiger is Lawful Good, but the Weretiger population is 80% Lawful Evil in this setting since the DM has scrambled the typical alignments of the werebeasts (other changes would be that werebears are 80% NG, wereravens are 80% LG, werewolves are 80% NE, wereboars are 80% CE, and wererats are 80% CG). That makes me think I should take a subclass like way of Mercy. I'm considering multiclassing at some point because I've only ever single classed in games. When I did pointbuy, I picked these stats:
8 str (will increase to 17 at level 5 due to Weretiger Lycanthropy Feat)
16 dex
13 con
12 int (not optimized for monk, but with my academic background, putting an 8 here just felt wrong)
16 wis
8 cha

What is the key to playing a good monk in terms of combat style, subclasses, and feats/ASI?

Well, first of all, that's awesome! Second, I forgot I was going to say you could do a level in rogue (first level is best but I suppose too late now, sorry!) so you can get a little sneak attack (with the right Monk weapon), some proficiencies, and a few other benefits if you go deep enough to get a Subclass (thief is a fun rogue Subclass for the immediate ability to basically ignore vertical height with Second Story Work, combined with the monk's slow fall ability you can full on Ezio your enemies), and as a disclaimer I haven't played Monk myself, only seen a few players use them while have been both a party member and the DM, here's my thought:

Mobile is a classic feat for Monk since you get an extra 10ft (20ft with a dash or 30ft if you double dash for Ludicrous Speed, if you just want the Flash to be your role model), plus it allows you to tap an enemy and disengage without provoking, which can enable some fun character moments (say Brenna gets cut off, so you run between a couple of enemies, slap them both to prevent opportunity attacks, and interpose yourself between your dear friend and your enemies), but if you don't care about taking some hits or the move speed, then you could pass on it, since by the time you hit level 17-18, you should have about 55-60ft of movements per turn base, before dashing.

Charger could be a fun option since you can make a Bonus Action attack after dashing (sub optimal for obvious reasons but maybe your DM can ease up and let you incorporate it into Flurry?) to either add a little damage or shove an enemy 5ft after moving 10ft. Not the best option but it's fun if your DM will bend a little.

If you're feeling a bit pinched for skills, try picking up the Skilled or Skill Master feats (three skills vs a skill, an expertise, and a language I believe) to cover some of the slack.

A few gold standard feats:
Alert/Sentinel are some of the best in the game but because of that might be banned, so definitely check with your DM and plan on it being a no.

Tough is a nice compensation if you don't wanna pour into Con, since it gives the effective bonus of increasing your Con by 4 points.

Avoid Resilient, since after a bit into Monk you gain Proficiency in all saves and the ability to spend ki points to reroll.

ASI can vary depending on Subclass, it depends on how you wanna go.

I like Astral Self since it gives you access to spectral arms that give you reach (even better if your DM allows sentinel), and you can use Wis instead of Dex or Str for those attacks, which can be all of them, and they deal force damage bypassing a significant number of immunities. Plus at 17th level you can spend 5 ki for 10 minutes of +2 AC, all of your earlier features, and your extra attack does an extra attack if you use the arms for all of them.

Shadow Monk I don't know well but it can be fun, I know the 6th level feature let's you teleport from dim light shadow to dim light shadow you can see within 60ft, which could be useful to get into pouncing range.


I think Kensei is pretty good, I know at 11th level you can just spend ki to make your Kensei weapon (if nonmagical) a +1 to +3 weapon, but that's all I really know, it lets you use weapons if you have a particular gimmick you wanna use, like something requiring something other than bludgeoning damage.

I don't know how well the Ascendant Dragon would fit but I think either the 6th or 11th level feature let's you have spectral dragon wings when you dash, giving you a flying speed that turn, which is nuts.

Mercy is actually what I plan on doing for the next character I have in a campaign! It's a lot of fun from reading it since you can run up to an ally and an enemy next to each other, hand of healing your ally and throw hands at the enemy, using your once per turn Hands of harm for necrotic damage (which while less relevant against undead just means you can save more for healing and just bludgeon them, it's only one per turn regardless.

As far as playstyle, all i can tell you is to remember you aren't intended as a tank, but you can still be fairly tanky, your main strength is insane mobility. You can easily be the first responder, repositioning at a moment's notice, and you can be the hunter in a chase scene or having to play keep away. Did a party member go down? You can run and stabilize them, maybe heal them depending on what your DM allows (like letting you force a health potion down their throat) or if you go Mercy. Is the wounded big bad trying to flee? Unless they have Dimension Door or better, not on your watch. Something to discuss with your DM as well might be incorporating your slow fall into a tiger's pounce, if you want to try and get a height advantage so you start an attack off by leaping off a building or tree, letting your target take the brunt of your fall before you start mauling them.

Also I like the scholarly angle! It's definitely not a bad thing to have a decent int score regardless.

Hope this helps a little!

[meandean]

With STR of 17+ and Athletics proficiency, you'll be – unlike most Monks – able to grapple well. This can be extremely effective, because with increased Monk movement, you'll be able to pull people all over the map.

Kensei might be fun because it's well-suited to switch-hitting, in your case tanking at night when you have damage resistance, and being at range during the day. "Mercy" is indeed a bit of a euphemism as a descriptor, but as you know, the subclass also does heal. I don't think its flavor is inherently evil or good. Tasha's did a lot to even out the subclasses (other than Sun Soul, which is hopeless.) None of them are great either, but, it helped. I would just take the subclass that piques your interest most.

There aren't many good Monk feats at all, and you may very well want to use four of your five ASIs on maxing DEX/WIS. For the other one, Mobile is a common monk feat, although perhaps not suiting this character. Sentinel, if that's the playstyle you envision. You could take Crusher to even out your CON and apply its effect to your unarmed strikes (probably not worth it if you have​ to use claws when in tiger form.) Fey Touched is good on anyone, although more often taken when you have an odd-numbered mental score.

Shadow Monk has good synergy with some other "sneaky" builds. Other than that, Monk is the most difficult class to multiclass, because everything costs Ki and your Ki is based on your Monk level. You can always benefit from e.g. Fighter 1 or 2, but I'd see how it goes first.

[Zhentarim]

Well, first of all, that's awesome! Second, I forgot I was going to say you could do a level in rogue (first level is best but I suppose too late now, sorry!) so you can get a little sneak attack (with the right Monk weapon), some proficiencies, and a few other benefits if you go deep enough to get a Subclass (thief is a fun rogue Subclass for the immediate ability to basically ignore vertical height with Second Story Work, combined with the monk's slow fall ability you can full on Ezio your enemies), and as a disclaimer I haven't played Monk myself, only seen a few players use them while have been both a party member and the DM, here's my thought:

Mobile is a classic feat for Monk since you get an extra 10ft (20ft with a dash or 30ft if you double dash for Ludicrous Speed, if you just want the Flash to be your role model), plus it allows you to tap an enemy and disengage without provoking, which can enable some fun character moments (say Brenna gets cut off, so you run between a couple of enemies, slap them both to prevent opportunity attacks, and interpose yourself between your dear friend and your enemies), but if you don't care about taking some hits or the move speed, then you could pass on it, since by the time you hit level 17-18, you should have about 55-60ft of movements per turn base, before dashing.

Charger could be a fun option since you can make a Bonus Action attack after dashing (sub optimal for obvious reasons but maybe your DM can ease up and let you incorporate it into Flurry?) to either add a little damage or shove an enemy 5ft after moving 10ft. Not the best option but it's fun if your DM will bend a little.

If you're feeling a bit pinched for skills, try picking up the Skilled or Skill Master feats (three skills vs a skill, an expertise, and a language I believe) to cover some of the slack.

A few gold standard feats:
Alert/Sentinel are some of the best in the game but because of that might be banned, so definitely check with your DM and plan on it being a no.

Tough is a nice compensation if you don't wanna pour into Con, since it gives the effective bonus of increasing your Con by 4 points.

Avoid Resilient, since after a bit into Monk you gain Proficiency in all saves and the ability to spend ki points to reroll.

ASI can vary depending on Subclass, it depends on how you wanna go.

I like Astral Self since it gives you access to spectral arms that give you reach (even better if your DM allows sentinel), and you can use Wis instead of Dex or Str for those attacks, which can be all of them, and they deal force damage bypassing a significant number of immunities. Plus at 17th level you can spend 5 ki for 10 minutes of +2 AC, all of your earlier features, and your extra attack does an extra attack if you use the arms for all of them.

Shadow Monk I don't know well but it can be fun, I know the 6th level feature let's you teleport from dim light shadow to dim light shadow you can see within 60ft, which could be useful to get into pouncing range.


I think Kensei is pretty good, I know at 11th level you can just spend ki to make your Kensei weapon (if nonmagical) a +1 to +3 weapon, but that's all I really know, it lets you use weapons if you have a particular gimmick you wanna use, like something requiring something other than bludgeoning damage.

I don't know how well the Ascendant Dragon would fit but I think either the 6th or 11th level feature let's you have spectral dragon wings when you dash, giving you a flying speed that turn, which is nuts.

Mercy is actually what I plan on doing for the next character I have in a campaign! It's a lot of fun from reading it since you can run up to an ally and an enemy next to each other, hand of healing your ally and throw hands at the enemy, using your once per turn Hands of harm for necrotic damage (which while less relevant against undead just means you can save more for healing and just bludgeon them, it's only one per turn regardless.

As far as playstyle, all i can tell you is to remember you aren't intended as a tank, but you can still be fairly tanky, your main strength is insane mobility. You can easily be the first responder, repositioning at a moment's notice, and you can be the hunter in a chase scene or having to play keep away. Did a party member go down? You can run and stabilize them, maybe heal them depending on what your DM allows (like letting you force a health potion down their throat) or if you go Mercy. Is the wounded big bad trying to flee? Unless they have Dimension Door or better, not on your watch. Something to discuss with your DM as well might be incorporating your slow fall into a tiger's pounce, if you want to try and get a height advantage so you start an attack off by leaping off a building or tree, letting your target take the brunt of your fall before you start mauling them.

Also I like the scholarly angle! It's definitely not a bad thing to have a decent int score regardless.

Hope this helps a little!

I'm asking the DM if its too late to run through the charactermancer one more time to make my first level rogue and the other monk--we haven't had session 1, yet.

Your post was very helpful, for sure--its giving me lots of additional ideas I can cover with the DM.

If I do end of making rogue my first level, though, I'll pick up the insight and perception skills, and maybe take the skilled feat later on to also pick up stealth, nature, and religion.

I just really like having lots of skills so I can roleplay out of combat. Granted, I'm looking at more INT/DEX/WIS/STR rather than CHA/DEX/WIS/INT, like I'd normally do, but coming from playing rogues and bards, monks feel very feat-starved.

[Bardbarian91]

With STR of 17+ and Athletics proficiency, you'll be – unlike most Monks – able to grapple well. This can be extremely effective, because with increased Monk movement, you'll be able to pull people all over the map.

Kensei might be fun because it's well-suited to switch-hitting, in your case tanking at night when you have damage resistance, and being at range during the day. "Mercy" is indeed a bit of a euphemism as a descriptor, but as you know, the subclass also does heal. I don't think its flavor is inherently evil or good. Tasha's did a lot to even out the subclasses (other than Sun Soul, which is hopeless.) None of them are great either, but, it helped. I would just take the subclass that piques your interest most.

There aren't many good Monk feats at all, and you may very well want to use four of your five ASIs on maxing DEX/WIS. For the other one, Mobile is a common monk feat, although perhaps not suiting this character. Sentinel, if that's the playstyle you envision. You could take Crusher to even out your CON and apply its effect to your unarmed strikes (probably not worth it if you have​ to use claws when in tiger form.) Fey Touched is good on anyone, although more often taken when you have an odd-numbered mental score.

Shadow Monk has good synergy with some other "sneaky" builds. Other than that, Monk is the most difficult class to multiclass, because everything costs Ki and your Ki is based on your Monk level. You can always benefit from e.g. Fighter 1 or 2, but I'd see how it goes first.

The grappling is a good point, one of my players, during two separate one shots another player ran, used ludicrous speed to grapple an enemy and drag them out of the battle entirely - in one case, on a ship, he dragged him over board and shoved him down till he drowned while teleporting back up. In the other his hasted paladin dragged the boss off the table and shanked him so hard he died in basically one round.

That is a good point also for the Kensei, I keep forgetting, is the transformation at will, or only at certain times?

If you don't take Astral Self then Crusher could be good, or Slasher, but I wouldn't necessarily take either unless you can transform at will.

I don't think it's that bad, it just takes planning - Assassin Rogue could be good if you use a dagger, pounce and shank someone, it qualifies (even without Kensei) as both a Monk weapon and for Sneak Attack, so you could end up doing 1d8+3d6 each turn possibly, especially if someone else flanks for easy advantage, and then if you crit it's doubled. Champion fighter I like as a three level dip so your weapon attacks crit on 19-20, you could easily go dual wielding or duelist, use shortswords or daggers (the martial arts die overwrites whatever the normal damage is), from there it gets to be a bit of mechanical crunch to figure out how you wanna do it, but it's easily to just pump out insane volumes of attacks regardless.

[Bardbarian91]

I'm asking the DM if its too late to run through the charactermancer one more time to make my first level rogue and the other monk--we haven't had session 1, yet.

Your post was very helpful, for sure--its giving me lots of additional ideas I can cover with the DM.

If I do end of making rogue my first level, though, I'll pick up the insight and perception skills, and maybe take the skilled feat later on to also pick up stealth, nature, and religion.

I just really like having lots of skills so I can roleplay out of combat. Granted, I'm looking at more INT/DEX/WIS/STR rather than CHA/DEX/WIS/INT, like I'd normally do, but coming from playing rogues and bards, monks feel very feat-starved.

That's good, I'm glad to hear! In that case if you can then yeah, rogue is a great first level pick especially if you want skills - you could also go three levels in for Scout so you can use a reaction to someone getting within 5ft to disengage and move up to half your movement, no opportunity attacks allowed, plus you get free expertise in nature and survival I believe - Expertise, not just Proficiency.

I'd say it's less of them being feat starved as less feat reliant. You can't wear heavy armor so why would you care about finding a set of plate armor, unless someone else in the party can use it? Also means for example you don't use feats like Heavy Armor Master or anything that requires things you don't use. It's a mix of freeing and constraining, because it gives you less options but you also don't have to worry about having to take ALL the feats, you know?

[Zhentarim]

With STR of 17+ and Athletics proficiency, you'll be – unlike most Monks – able to grapple well. This can be extremely effective, because with increased Monk movement, you'll be able to pull people all over the map.

Kensei might be fun because it's well-suited to switch-hitting, in your case tanking at night when you have damage resistance, and being at range during the day. "Mercy" is indeed a bit of a euphemism as a descriptor, but as you know, the subclass also does heal. I don't think its flavor is inherently evil or good. Tasha's did a lot to even out the subclasses (other than Sun Soul, which is hopeless.) None of them are great either, but, it helped. I would just take the subclass that piques your interest most.

There aren't many good Monk feats at all, and you may very well want to use four of your five ASIs on maxing DEX/WIS. For the other one, Mobile is a common monk feat, although perhaps not suiting this character. Sentinel, if that's the playstyle you envision. You could take Crusher to even out your CON and apply its effect to your unarmed strikes (probably not worth it if you have​ to use claws when in tiger form.) Fey Touched is good on anyone, although more often taken when you have an odd-numbered mental score.

Shadow Monk has good synergy with some other "sneaky" builds. Other than that, Monk is the most difficult class to multiclass, because everything costs Ki and your Ki is based on your Monk level. You can always benefit from e.g. Fighter 1 or 2, but I'd see how it goes first.

I could always take Fey Touched to bump INT, then do a split ASI to bump INT and CON both to 14.

On the other hand, doing metamagic adept to pick up the Hex spell 1/day could be fun, too.

Way of Shadow sounds like the most interesting subclass so far. I also like Kensai and Mercy, though.

[Zhentarim]

That's good, I'm glad to hear! In that case if you can then yeah, rogue is a great first level pick especially if you want skills - you could also go three levels in for Scout so you can use a reaction to someone getting within 5ft to disengage and move up to half your movement, no opportunity attacks allowed, plus you get free expertise in nature and survival I believe - Expertise, not just Proficiency.

I'd say it's less of them being feat starved as less feat reliant. You can't wear heavy armor so why would you care about finding a set of plate armor, unless someone else in the party can use it? Also means for example you don't use feats like Heavy Armor Master or anything that requires things you don't use. It's a mix of freeing and constraining, because it gives you less options but you also don't have to worry about having to take ALL the feats, you know?

I meant to say "skill-starved" rather than "feat-starved". I agree, though, having fewer feats to worry about is nice.

[Bardbarian91]

I could always take Fey Touched to bump INT, then do a split ASI to bump INT and CON both to 14.

On the other hand, doing metamagic adept to pick up the Hex spell 1/day could be fun, too.

Way of Shadow sounds like the most interesting subclass so far. I also like Kensai and Mercy, though.

True, one of my players used that to take Misty Step I believe for a free 30ft BA teleport which is always handy, especially if you don't have the disengage, though I suppose that's less of a problem being able to just Dodge as a BA and rely on your AC, but it can also give you a height advantage as I mentioned earlier with Shadow Monk.

You mean Shadow Touched, or just magic initiate? Since metamagic adept doesn't add spells just sorcery points anyway.

That's fair, I'd say take a closer look at all three and get a feel for how you want your character to grow/fight, docyou know what level the campaign is supposed to go to?


I meant to say "skill-starved" rather than "feat-starved". I agree, though, having fewer feats to worry about is nice.

Ah, that's fair! That makes more sense anyway and I do agree it is a bit skill starved but that's also probably not helped by being used to Rogue, my warlock player has said the exact same thing about not being used to just not having all the skills.

[Skrum]

Is this a were focused adventure, or just like "oh btw, you can be a lycan."

I'd have real concerns about the latter. I would NOT count on your natural immunity to help all that much. If he's allowing it, I have to think he's planning on having lots of enemies that bypass it - especially when it counts (boss fights). That's the funny conundrum about immunities - since they effectively "end" the encounter before it begins, if your enemy doesn't have some way around it, there's no point in the encounter.

[Bardbarian91]

Is this a were focused adventure, or just like "oh btw, you can be a lycan."

I'd have real concerns about the latter. I would NOT count on your natural immunity to help all that much. If he's allowing it, I have to think he's planning on having lots of enemies that bypass it - especially when it counts (boss fights). That's the funny conundrum about immunities - since they effectively "end" the encounter before it begins, if your enemy doesn't have some way around it, there's no point in the encounter.

Yeah, I thought I made that same point earlier but I guess less directly, no DM is going to reasonably allow full immunity to any damage type like that for a PC without it being something easily bypassed - which sounds like it is in this case if silver weapons are the setting's default due to all of the lycans, which I like because it's a reasonable bypass. "You can be a Lycan, its common enough. But it's so common people expect it almost as the norm and prepare accordingly."

[da newt]

The two rogue expertise skills can be very handy and significantly influence playstyle / tactics. I'd look at Athletic Expertise for grapple / shove shenanigans and then perception / stealth / investigation etc. depending on what your roll / desires in the party are. With the MANY attacks of a monk using your first attack to shove prone might be a worthy modus operandi and be great for the team to dog pile onto.

[Bardbarian91]

The two rogue expertise skills can be very handy and significantly influence playstyle / tactics. I'd look at Athletic Expertise for grapple / shove shenanigans and then perception / stealth / investigation etc. depending on what your roll / desires in the party are. With the MANY attacks of a monk using your first attack to shove prone might be a worthy modus operandi and be great for the team to dog pile onto.

Valid, though as a small reminder bear in mind shoving someone prone actually puts ranged attackers at disadvantage to hit, so they'll be better to target other enemies.

[Zhentarim]

Is this a were focused adventure, or just like "oh btw, you can be a lycan."

I'd have real concerns about the latter. I would NOT count on your natural immunity to help all that much. If he's allowing it, I have to think he's planning on having lots of enemies that bypass it - especially when it counts (boss fights). That's the funny conundrum about immunities - since they effectively "end" the encounter before it begins, if your enemy doesn't have some way around it, there's no point in the encounter.

Session 0 made it sound like lycanthropic themes are going to play heavily into the campaign. This campaign is actually a sequel to a one-shot we did a few weeks ago that took place 500 years ago--which would have been 300 years before Lycanthropes were revealed to the world at large, since Lycanthropes only came out of the woodwork and took over everything 200 years ago.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Be careful with your starting stats and level 4 ASI-- the houserules you linked specify that you REPLACE one of your stats. Ideally you'd be able to start with a low Str/Dex and use the racial ability to turn it into a good stat, but you have to get to that point first. A grapple-y Monk werebear or bare-chested Barbarian wereraven would both work, for instance.

[Zhentarim]

I made a level 2 chaotic good werebear cleric with the life domain. He serves the goddess Artio, the Neutral Good goddess of werebears, healing magic, plants, animals, and family bonds. It is important to note that despite being a nature goddess in most respects, she does NOT have the weather as part of her portfolio. Weather is controlled by the chaotic evil god in this setting, instead.

I scrapped the monk I initially made because the party consists of a rogue, a ranger, a rogue/ranger multiclass, an artificier, a paladin, and a fighter/warlock multiclass. I felt we were missing a divine spellcaster.

Were I not intrigued by the possibility of playing a werecreature, I probably would have made a mark of hospitality halfling. That said, after our first fight of the campaign, two of our newer players almost died, and we leveled up right after the fight, so I decided my 3rd level was going to be a multiclass into druid to take on the goodberry spell so I can convert all leftover spellslots at the end of the day into goodberries for the party to heal themselves somewhat while I do other kinds of spells. I also took the thorn whip and gust cantrips for a little bit of light battlefield control.

Since druids don't wear metal armor (why?), I'll sell my metal shield and chain mail for a wooden shield and studded leather armor, if the dm says the studs aren't metal.

Would it be more fun to level my werebear as a cleric 2/druid x or druid 1/cleric x?

My current stats are 8 str (goes to 19 at level 5), 16 dex, 15 con, 8 int, 16 wis, 15 con, 8 int, 16 wis, 8 cha