New campaign: need support character options to make youth newbie shine

[FrancisBean]

I'm joining a new campaign with a youth player who is a complete novice. He'll be playing some sort of "I hit it in the face a lot!" character -- I'm assuming Fighter, Barbarian, or maybe Paladin. No, I don't get a say in the choice and I don't know exactly what that'll be.

We'll be playing Tomb of Annihilation. No, I don't get a vote on that -- it's already carved in stone.

I'm trying to come up with a character option I can use to make him look awesome. We've already got someone running a healer (Celestial Warlock), so I'm looking for things which will synergize well with him, even if he's got a Champion Fighter. Any ideas?

A few constraints: My last character was a Shield Master build, so I'd rather try something new. (Even though knocking enemies on their butts in front of him would fit the bill!) I'm also not willing to play the party face, so think in terms of "No Charisma Needed" builds.

My thoughts:

Battlemaster seems obvious, with maneuvers like Commander's Strike, Feinting Attack, Trip Attack, maybe Grappling Strike and Goading Attack. It could even work as a ranged build, although Str-based front-line is more straight-forward.
Mastermind with Master of Tactics would let me basically hand him advantage on his first attack each round for most of the game. Also works as a ranged build.
Artificer would let me keep him well-supplied with fancy weapons and armor.
Grave Domain Cleric shouldn't be overlooked, as Path to the Grave hands him double damage for the cost of a Channel Divinity. But that's only 2/LR early on.


I don't think something like Forge Domain fits the bill, since +1 att/dmg is numerically strong but the narrative isn't exciting for a very young player. Remember, the goal isn't to impress us number-crunchers, but a newbie under the age of 10. Commander's Strike would probably thrill him, even though it's a bit suboptimal in this situation.

Any ideas or advice? That's the best I could concoct.

[claypigeons]

Bard, flavor of your choice, with Silvery Barbs as a spell choice. You're not required to choose face skills, so don't feel obligated.

Play cheerleader and Inspire, maybe pick up Bless, and if the enemy manages a crit or something, use Silvery Barbs to (probably) un-Crit the attack.

A Haste later can also make new players really heroic.

[Kane0]

Seconding Bard or other buffing caster (Bless, Aid, Enlarge, Elemental Weapon, Haste, Fly, Greater Invisibility, etc). Abjurer or Clockwork soul could help make him even tougher on top of that, but Bard with a constant stream of bonus dice to roll is easy, effective and feels great.

[animorte]

Now, I love me some Warlock but you’re very likely going to need a bit more protection than what it can offer. But if the Warlock is running Talisman (which I seriously doubt), that is a really cool way to support a specific ally.

I would definitely go Cleric, though Bard was also certainly my first thought as it’s the best class to support allies and avoid stealing the show, despite their nature.

Cleric can provide Guiding Bolt to let this kid hit more. They also have various forms of temp hp to provide depending on subclass.

My next question: what if they don’t play a hit-em-with-a-stick character?

Crown Paladin comes to mind, being able to front line well and provides some pretty nice combat support.

Edit: Forgot to ask who all the party consists of. Just the Warlock then whatever you two pick?

[Mastikator]

Third'd bard. Fey touched gives access to Bless. Inspiring Leader adds up to a huge pile of temp hp.

Artificer also has access to many good support options but is more focused on utility.

[nickl_2000]

What about a Peace Domain Cleric?

Emboldening Bond can keep them alive, you have guidance and bless to boost, healing to keep them going. The domain spells of Heroism, Aid, Warding Bond

Command - Drop, disarm and other things can bring the person to you.
Shield of Faith to boost their AC
Blindness/Deafness
Enhance Ability
Hold Person/Monster

[Bobthewizard]

Since you don't want a charisma class, and you want to let the celestial warlock be the main healer, I'd suggest an artillerist artificer. You get medium armor and d8 HD so you can help in melee if you need to. Faerie fire at low levels will really help the fighter hit things, and you have some minimal healing to help out. But the main reason to take it is the protector eldritch cannon. Giving 1d8+INT THP every round will let the fighter stay in melee and tank all day long.

Twilight cleric's channel divinity is a better version of this, but that might step on the celestial warlock's toes more.

[da newt]

For a quirky alternate - moon druid + mounted combatant could be fun and feel like an epic hero (druid also has a bunch of nice utility for dealing w/ ToA issues)

[Boverk]

Bard has already been mentioned, but I want to second it. A Valor or Swords bard played up as the side kick/helper. Use your spells to buff them, maybe expertise in Athletics for shoving attacks so you can knock people down to set them up for good attacks, vicious mockery after they attack to highlight how much butt they're kicking, etc.

If they go Paladin, you could play a cleric from the same order, let them have the role of your body guard/protector which gives them a fun personal purpose.

Stars Druid could be fun cause lots of guiding bolts for combo attacks.

Artificer and play it up as their magical armorer

Illusion wizard and be a great distraction/battlefield control person

[Monster Manuel]

I love battlemaster for this, and I've done something similar bringing a set of new, younger players into the game for the first time. The Battlemaster acts like a coach/mentor, and uses their maneuvers to set the kids up in fights. Only problem is that with your newbie dead set on a frontline melee basher, another fighter may not be the optimal choice.

How big is the group? If you have a big and diverse enough group already then you can deal with some redundancy in roles. If it's just the two of you and the celestial warlock, you can make anything work, but Tomb of Annihilation is already tough and only having two fighters and a warlock will not make it any easier.

I would also jump in on the bard bandwagon here, but you explicitly don't want to play the Face, and this sounds like a group pretty set in its' ways. I could see a fair amount of "you;re the bard, you go talk to him", and if that's not what you're looking to play, even though you can build up a perfectly good bard without any social skill proficiencies, maybe best to steer clear of this one.

Peace cleric is a great choice, but steps on the celestial warlock's toes as a healer.

Given all that, I'll second the Artillerist Artificer. Infused item is a fun boost, Flash of Genius is a nice support ability to boost some of your Newbie's rolls , and the artificer spell list has a lot of good buff spells (false life, fairy fire, longstrider, aid, Enlarge, etc). Decent ranged damage capability with cantrips. Could be a winner.

[Oramac]

I'm going to go against the grain and recommend the Jorasco Physician (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24670442&postcount=496). I've personally played this at various levels all the way to 20th, and can say unequivocally that it is one of the best character builds in all of 5e.

Plus, it ticks all your boxes. It's not charisma based, and it's not a shield master. Play it like a god wizard (https://www.enworld.org/threads/treantmonks-guide-to-wizards-5e.450158/) and you'll be golden. Especially if you're playing Tomb of Annihilation, you're going to want more healing than just the celestial 'lock.

[animorte]

Especially if you're playing Tomb of Annihilation, you're going to want more healing than just the celestial 'lock.
This was my very first concern.

Still going to say Cleric! It provides multiple ways to support without getting in anybody’s way, but you can step in where needed (front-lining, healing, or blasting). It really doesn’t matter what subclass, so choose your favorite, because the base class has everything you need.

I would recommend Trickery to give your party some stealth that you may or may not have. Is it only three of you?

[meandean]

I like artificer here. It provides support/healing (without being a CHA class), and adds the magic item element. Everyone loves magic items, but probably kids even more so. It would be a fun and non-overwhelming way for him to learn about how magic items work and to get some himself. Guidance could also be useful if there are a lot of skill checks, which I suspect (but don't know) there are based on the reputation of this adventure.

[FrancisBean]

Some really good ideas in here! Just jarring me out of my autopilot, "Bard is always Face" is a big help.


Bard, flavor of your choice, with Silvery Barbs as a spell choice. You're not required to choose face skills, so don't feel obligated.

I would also jump in on the bard bandwagon here, but you explicitly don't want to play the Face, and this sounds like a group pretty set in its ways. I could see a fair amount of "you're the bard, you go talk to him", and if that's not what you're looking to play, even though you can build up a perfectly good bard without any social skill proficiencies, maybe best to steer clear of this one.

You know, that's a good point. I'm getting my brain into a bit of a straight-jacket by assuming the bard is always the party face. And the Celestial Warlock is going to max Charisma anyway, so as long as she picks up the social skills, it's covered. Sword or Valor could work well with the probable party composition as a backup front-liner while covering the missing Rogue-like utilities, and it can also support a Grappling build via expertise in Athletics if that looks useful.

A bit of backstory: over the last few years I've lost the bulk of my hearing to one of those poorly-understood, progressive syndromes. Playing anything where I've got to manage a ton of clever conversation is exhausting. It's painful enough that I'd rather not play at all than play the face. Otherwise, I'd be all over it.


Now, I love me some Warlock but you’re very likely going to need a bit more protection than what it can offer. But if the Warlock is running Talisman (which I seriously doubt), that is a really cool way to support a specific ally.

Since my wife has the Warlock, I can at least mention it to her. It's certainly thematic for her planned role-play!


My next question: what if they don’t play a hit-em-with-a-stick character?

Crown Paladin comes to mind, being able to front line well and provides some pretty nice combat support.

Edit: Forgot to ask who all the party consists of. Just the Warlock then whatever you two pick?

The youth will be playing, and I quote, "the one who takes the most damage and has the coolest weapon to hit stuff with." Which means that Crown Paladin might steal some of that thunder. Although with 2 front-liners in the party, the Protection fighting style suddenly becomes very viable, and I could swallow Shield Master to go with it anyway. That could lead to some pretty brutal front-line carnage. In the back, we'd have the Warlock healer, and a fourth player I don't know -- probably a Sorceress, from what I'm told.


Since you don't want a charisma class, and you want to let the celestial warlock be the main healer, I'd suggest an artillerist artificer. You get medium armor and d8 HD so you can help in melee if you need to. Faerie fire at low levels will really help the fighter hit things, and you have some minimal healing to help out. But the main reason to take it is the protector eldritch cannon. Giving 1d8+INT THP every round will let the fighter stay in melee and tank all day long.

Given all that, I'll second the Artillerist Artificer. Infused item is a fun boost, Flash of Genius is a nice support ability to boost some of your Newbie's rolls , and the artificer spell list has a lot of good buff spells (false life, fairy fire, longstrider, aid, Enlarge, etc). Decent ranged damage capability with cantrips. Could be a winner.

Dang! I hadn't realized just how extreme that subclass could be! I usually avoid Artificers because they haven't suited the recent settings, so I haven't read through it well enough to see things like this. THP doesn't help from 0HP, but the Warlock and Healing Light covers our yo-yo needs pretty well.


For a quirky alternate - moon druid + mounted combatant could be fun and feel like an epic hero (druid also has a bunch of nice utility for dealing w/ ToA issues)

That one depends on how far the DM is willing to let me push a custom background as a Zookeeper. :smallbiggrin: But I can see how Tiger, Dire Wolf, and Giant Spider all have good synergy even without him taking the Mounted Combatant feat.


I love battlemaster for this, and I've done something similar bringing a set of new, younger players into the game for the first time. The Battlemaster acts like a coach/mentor, and uses their maneuvers to set the kids up in fights. Only problem is that with your newbie dead set on a frontline melee basher, another fighter may not be the optimal choice.

How big is the group? If you have a big and diverse enough group already then you can deal with some redundancy in roles. If it's just the two of you and the celestial warlock, you can make anything work, but Tomb of Annihilation is already tough and only having two fighters and a warlock will not make it any easier.

There's a 4th player I haven't met who usually brings a Sorceress, but that's just speculation I heard this morning. But here's the thing: if one front-liner is being played suboptimally, having a second isn't horrible. And there are a bunch of feats and features which only work well with two adjacent front-liners. You know, things like the Protection fighting style, maybe suck it up and take Shield Master anyway, or one of the Grappling options.

I'm a little concerned about our lack of the usual cluster of Rogue-like skills, particularly for dungeon crawls, but we can't have everything. (If I were building purely for my own fun, I'd have a Tabaxi Swashbuckler. "That's Slashbuckler, thankyouverymuch!")


I'm going to go against the grain and recommend the Jorasco Physician (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24670442&postcount=496). I've personally played this at various levels all the way to 20th, and can say unequivocally that it is one of the best character builds in all of 5e.

Plus, it ticks all your boxes. It's not charisma based, and it's not a shield master. Play it like a god wizard (https://www.enworld.org/threads/treantmonks-guide-to-wizards-5e.450158/) and you'll be golden. Especially if you're playing Tomb of Annihilation, you're going to want more healing than just the celestial 'lock.
I love it! I'm not sure the DM will accept an Eberron-specific build, but I can always ask. The other potential issue is it now looks like we've got one front-liner and two casters, so adding a third might make us a little ... squishy.

[Monster Manuel]

A bit of backstory: over the last few years I've lost the bulk of my hearing to one of those poorly-understood, progressive syndromes.


Sorry to hear it. We have some congenital hearing loss in my family, it's rough. My Dad's favorite function of his own hearing aid is that he can control it from his phone, and it includes a mute button. Being able to mute the world when it suits him is a small compensation, but he has fun with it.



Since my wife has the Warlock, I can at least mention it to her. It's certainly thematic for her planned role-play!


Well, that changes a lot! I got the impression this was joining a pre-existing group who already had characters built and in-play. If your wife is running the Warlock and is still in the char-gen process, you can definitely see if she's interested in taking on the face skills, and a valor or swords bard could be perfect here.



TThe other potential issue is it now looks like we've got one front-liner and two casters, so adding a third might make us a little ... squishy.

That's the great thing about this build, though, and the Artificer, too. With armor and good CON and various healing and tempHP tricks, neither of them are full-on front liners, but they're far from squishy, either. I'm playing a wizard who dipped alchemist in my current game, and with medium armor +shield, a 14 CON and DEX, and the Shield and Absorb Elements spells, has been an unpleasant surprise to some bad guys who thought they were getting the drop on a squishy back-line...

Have fun, and good luck!

[Oramac]

I love it! I'm not sure the DM will accept an Eberron-specific build, but I can always ask. The other potential issue is it now looks like we've got one front-liner and two casters, so adding a third might make us a little ... squishy.

Oh the wizard is most certainly NOT squishy! You get heavy armor and shield proficiency. Though you'll probably lack the strength to use heavy armor, you can still use medium armor and a shield to get a good base AC, on top of the shield spell. And with the wizard's ability to throw out healing while also doing god-wizard stuff, I would venture to say that you won't feel nearly as squishy as it sounds on paper.

That said, the eberron race is about the only downside. If your DM doesn't allow that, the whole thing is pretty much toast. If that's the case, I'd probably go with a cleric of some sort. Personally, I'm partial to Tempest, but they're all good.

[Nidgit]

Having a secondary frontliner/healer is a pretty good idea so the kid's not taking all the melee damage, and to better support him. It's definitely possible to build a Paladin to be some tanky support, as that's what I did with several friends new to DnD with definite success. Shield Master and Ancients or Redemption Paladin are excellent for durable support while imo Crown's taunt works better to split enemy attention rather than focus your party's. Cleric is obviously a great option too- Peace and Twilight domains make for incredibly durable parties and are unlikely to steal any DPR spotlight. Grave is good too, as you mentioned, but a bit less comfortable as a frontliner.

[Bardbarian91]

Just to chip in, I agree entirely with the Artificer! I don't think the Armorer should be underestimated as a Subclass since it allows you to frontline, and you can switch between melee or ranged styles of armor during a rest (can't remember which kind), I think the melee one imposes disadvantage on enemies that don't attack you, plus you can take a shield and the shield spell (25AC in a pinch, if plate?) and since this is a kid, be his Tony Stark, hand out all the cool toys. Give him a fancy sword and shield! Or armor if he doesn't go barbarian. You can be tanky yourself even giving up your Infused items to hell buff him.

[Speely]

I like your idea about Grave Domain Cleric. You can use a sturdy healer, and this one's a great yo-yo healer, turns enemy crits into normal hits, and as you said, providing double damage a couple times per rest will make this kid feel epic. All-around good at preventing deaths and with Bless and Path to the Grave has some good tools for making the frontliner feel powerful.

I also like the idea of a creepy protector who is morbidly-obsessed with supporting a headstrong hero.

[Sorinth]

Order Cleric could be a solid option, perhaps even as a dip with the recommended bard.

Go dwarf to completely ignore the strength requirement of heavy armor, and do classic buffing stuff except you are also giving them an extra attack. So things like silvery barbs becomes even better. Rather then a musician you could be a comedian telling dad jokes which you treat as the highest form of dwarven humour.

[animorte]

Sorry for the length! innuendo


1. Some really good ideas in here! Just jarring me out of my autopilot, "Bard is always Face" is a big help.

2. Sword or Valor could work well with the probable party composition as a backup front-liner while covering the missing Rogue-like utilities, and it can also support a Grappling build via expertise in Athletics if that looks useful.

3. Since my wife has the Warlock, I can at least mention it to her. It's certainly thematic for her planned role-play!

4. The youth will be playing, and I quote, "the one who takes the most damage and has the coolest weapon to hit stuff with." Which means that Crown Paladin might steal some of that thunder. In the back, we'd have the Warlock healer, and a fourth player I don't know -- probably a Sorceress, from what I'm told.

5. I'm a little concerned about our lack of the usual cluster of Rogue-like skills, particularly for dungeon crawls, but we can't have everything. (If I were building purely for my own fun, I'd have a Tabaxi Swashbuckler. "That's Slashbuckler, thankyouverymuch!")

6. The other potential issue is it now looks like we've got one front-liner and two casters, so adding a third might make us a little ... squishy.
1. Excellent to keep in mind. On another thread I was talking about various ways that Charisma could play a part in your character. Think about babies, people adore them despite their pooping and screaming and lack of ability to build rapport. I'd say they still get a natural +2 to Charisma. It's also related to Intimidation and Deception which are not particularly friendly versions of Charisma.

2. I was thinking about this exactly. (Which was relevant to my Trickery Cleric suggestion as it covers some stealth while still being able to heal and front-line, though admittedly not as skill based. Perhaps Druid instead? Something with access to Pass Without Trace? Bards are very utility focused, just not much front line material.)

3. If a large part of the focus is on the experience for this young new player, by all means throw as many resources their way! Seriously, check out Pact of the Talisman and relevant invocations.

4. The entire reason I mentioned the Crown Paladin is for this exactly. Champion Challenge forces enemies to stay within 30 feet of you so it's like a little arena for you and your hit-em-with-a-stick friend. It keeps the ranged allies safe while allowing you to dance around and support/redirect/whatever you so choose to make youngling strooonk.

5. For relevance, see #2 again. Irrelevant: I've played a Slashbuckler/Vengeance Paladin/Hexblade and it was nothing but a 1v1 master duelist, very enjoyable.

6. See #4 again. But there are a ton of ways people have mentioned to combat that.


Just to chip in, I agree entirely with the Artificer! since this is a kid, be his Tony Stark, hand out all the cool toys. Give him a fancy sword and shield! Or armor if he doesn't go barbarian. You can be tanky yourself even giving up your Infused items to hell buff him.
Oh, so you've seen those videos crop up as well? Iron Man has always been my favorite and all the videos about how to build him in D&D based on Artificer is literally the only reason I started looking into actually playing one. It works so much like Warlock (my favorite class) because invocations = infusions.


I also like the idea of a creepy protector who is morbidly-obsessed with supporting a headstrong hero.
Can relate! I actually had a character like this some time ago. One of my brothers was getting into D&D for the first time and he's never been very much into ttrpg so he played a very simple Half-Orc Barbarian who basically said, "I hit hard" and, "I am George." I had an Elf Bard that essentially rode his curtails forming the battlefield around them, anything to keep this rampaging beast on his feet. That and using every last ounce of Charisma to patch up the collateral damage (similar to CR's Grog/Pike).


Rather then a musician you could be a comedian telling dad jokes which you treat as the highest form of dwarven humour.
This is hilarious and there are so many uses of Charisma.

I don't know who needs to hear this, but it's been weighing on my mind and I need to get it out there, so without further ado.

Charisma (Deception) is not coming up with a convincing lie. Charisma (Deception) is telling a terrible lie with such a straight face that the target believes you anyway.

Charisma (Intimidation) is not convincing someone that you can break their kneecaps; it's convincing them that you will.

Charisma (Performance) is not the technical ability to play an instrument, sing a song, dance a jig, or recite an epic; it's the ability to win over an audience.

Charisma (Persuasion) is not using logic to make someone agree with you. It's being so damn charming that they want to go along with you even if you make the stupidest argument ever.

I see a lot of people replacing these skills with cleverness on the part of the player (or strength for intimidation, which is a post for another day. Spoiler: I kind of hate it), but I think there's a reason for them to be tied to a character's ability score. I'm sure I'm not the first to make this point, but I'm also sure that not everyone googles six year old threads looking for clarification, so here it is, from me. Do you agree? Was this post even necessary? Let me know in the comments below.

Here's the link: Charisma-based skills (https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/ies1gf/charismabased_skills/)

[animewatcha]

If you are gonna be melee support for the newbie, old UA feat Tandem Tactician. You use your bonus action to 'aid other' up to 2 people 'up to 10 feet away' vs same creature.

[Warder]

I'm going to go against the grain and recommend the Jorasco Physician (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24670442&postcount=496). I've personally played this at various levels all the way to 20th, and can say unequivocally that it is one of the best character builds in all of 5e.

Plus, it ticks all your boxes. It's not charisma based, and it's not a shield master. Play it like a god wizard (https://www.enworld.org/threads/treantmonks-guide-to-wizards-5e.450158/) and you'll be golden. Especially if you're playing Tomb of Annihilation, you're going to want more healing than just the celestial 'lock.

Little bit OT, but since you've played this to 20: which familiar did you use? The original post made a big deal about how the familiar could administer a healing potion but I always felt it'd have to be a really, really generous DM to let a bird or bat manipulate a healing potion enough to actually get the liquid into another ally.

[da newt]

There are a bunch of great options / suggestions but for my 2 more cents : a party with a single front line PC is a recipe for a party with a dead front line PC. A front line needs more than 1 PC to function, especially if that player is inexperienced / overly confident / reckless etc.

I'd make sure I could support the 'Yute by standing right next to them, holding the line and taking 1/2 the attacks. Melee bard, Cleric, Artificer, Druid, martial, etc - there are a number of different ways to do this and make the new guy look good (and live).



For this adventure specifically it will be very handy to have alternate forms of movement (flying, spider climb, teleport, etc) and some traditional trap countermeasures (lock picks, disarming traps, etc).

[Damon_Tor]

Moon Druid. Be the mount.

[Oramac]

Little bit OT, but since you've played this to 20: which familiar did you use? The original post made a big deal about how the familiar could administer a healing potion but I always felt it'd have to be a really, really generous DM to let a bird or bat manipulate a healing potion enough to actually get the liquid into another ally.

I used an owl. In my case, it wasn't so much the bird administering the potion as it was how many it can carry. We agreed that it couldn't carry more than two potions at a time (one in each foot).


Moon Druid. Be the mount.

Oh that would be hilarious!

[FrancisBean]

Moon Druid. Be the mount.

If I could be sure he'd take Mounted Combatant, I'd do it. Brown Bear, Tiger, and Dire Wolf are all great options. Although like I said above, I think I'd want to get my DM on board with a custom background as a retired Zookeeper first. :smallwink:

[Sigreid]

Especially for ToA I would do druid. you have lots of ways available to help him not be overwhelmed as well as thorn whip to feed him people to kill. On top of all of that, a major opponent in ToA is the environment itself and the druid has a lot of tools to help mitigate those.

[Jophiel]

Third'd bard. Fey touched gives access to Bless. Inspiring Leader adds up to a huge pile of temp hp.

Artificer also has access to many good support options but is more focused on utility.

Another nice bard touch is Dissonant Whispers which can give the melee characters opportunity attacks on the fleeing target. Taking down a critter with a "free" attack always feels good.

[Eldariel]

Honestly, Cleric seems great. Bless is a fine ability; rolling an extra die (after reminded) and turning a miss into a hit feels awesome. And yeah, Path to the Grave is pretty cool and you can always Warding Bond him to make him very hard to hurt, like able-to-facetank-dragons hard, Death Ward for even further "I'm an immortal coming for you"-style.

[Unoriginal]

I'm joining a new campaign with a youth player who is a complete novice. He'll be playing some sort of "I hit it in the face a lot!" character -- I'm assuming Fighter, Barbarian, or maybe Paladin. No, I don't get a say in the choice and I don't know exactly what that'll be.

We'll be playing Tomb of Annihilation. No, I don't get a vote on that -- it's already carved in stone.

I'm trying to come up with a character option I can use to make him look awesome. We've already got someone running a healer (Celestial Warlock), so I'm looking for things which will synergize well with him, even if he's got a Champion Fighter. Any ideas?

A few constraints: My last character was a Shield Master build, so I'd rather try something new. (Even though knocking enemies on their butts in front of him would fit the bill!) I'm also not willing to play the party face, so think in terms of "No Charisma Needed" builds.

My thoughts:

Battlemaster seems obvious, with maneuvers like Commander's Strike, Feinting Attack, Trip Attack, maybe Grappling Strike and Goading Attack. It could even work as a ranged build, although Str-based front-line is more straight-forward.
Mastermind with Master of Tactics would let me basically hand him advantage on his first attack each round for most of the game. Also works as a ranged build.
Artificer would let me keep him well-supplied with fancy weapons and armor.
Grave Domain Cleric shouldn't be overlooked, as Path to the Grave hands him double damage for the cost of a Channel Divinity. But that's only 2/LR early on.


I don't think something like Forge Domain fits the bill, since +1 att/dmg is numerically strong but the narrative isn't exciting for a very young player. Remember, the goal isn't to impress us number-crunchers, but a newbie under the age of 10. Commander's Strike would probably thrill him, even though it's a bit suboptimal in this situation.

Any ideas or advice? That's the best I could concoct.

Have you considered playing a NPC companion? Without spoiling, ToA has many options for them, and they'd work well with the Sidekick classes.

[animorte]

Have you considered playing a NPC companion? Without spoiling, ToA has many options for them, and they'd work well with the Sidekick classes.

This is exactly the thing I was going to recommend next. Could go with Expert Sidekick, any 1/2 CR will do. Covers a lot of the skills potentially lacking in the party and allows Help as a bonus action.

[FrancisBean]

As of just now, I'm settled on Twilight Cleric. I'm still waffling on Shield Master, but it sounds like our youth is going Bear Totem. Since he'll be using Reckless Attack a lot, there's not much boost from me knocking people prone for him. But because I already designed it based on V.Human, now I've got a feat kicking around. Shield Master isn't useless even on the other aspects, but I suppose there's always War Caster or HAM or Resilient(Con). Or, for backstory reasons, Chef could be, um, "flavorful." :cool:

[Bardbarian91]

As of just now, I'm settled on Twilight Cleric. I'm still waffling on Shield Master, but it sounds like our youth is going Bear Totem. Since he'll be using Reckless Attack a lot, there's not much boost from me knocking people prone for him. But because I already designed it based on V.Human, now I've got a feat kicking around. Shield Master isn't useless even on the other aspects, but I suppose there's always War Caster or HAM or Resilient(Con). Or, for backstory reasons, Chef could be, um, "flavorful." :cool:

I can vouch that Twilight Cleric is fun! A player in my campaign has been using it, gives you buffing, and mobility - as far as feats, HAM is always fun to help you stay up compared to his barbarian rage, War Caster is always just a good pick especially if you can get your hands on something like Lightning Lure and a Glaive (so when they try to get outside of your 10ft reach you can opportunity attack Lightning Lure and pull them 10ft hopefully), which I used with a fighter who had a level in warlock.

[FrancisBean]

I can vouch that Twilight Cleric is fun! A player in my campaign has been using it, gives you buffing, and mobility - as far as feats, HAM is always fun to help you stay up compared to his barbarian rage, War Caster is always just a good pick especially if you can get your hands on something like Lightning Lure and a Glaive (so when they try to get outside of your 10ft reach you can opportunity attack Lightning Lure and pull them 10ft hopefully), which I used with a fighter who had a level in warlock.

Eh, I'm going shield and hammer, so no reach. I had planned on War Caster with Booming Blade, then I found out that it's not available to Clerics anyway, so... Resilient(Con) is certainly good. So is Lucky. Is HAM really worth it? Bear in mind, this will probably be my only feat, since there are only 2 ASIs between level 1 and the end of ToA, and I'll likely need them for my Wisdom.

[Bardbarian91]

Eh, I'm going shield and hammer, so no reach. I had planned on War Caster with Booming Blade, then I found out that it's not available to Clerics anyway, so... Resilient(Con) is certainly good. So is Lucky. Is HAM really worth it? Bear in mind, this will probably be my only feat, since there are only 2 ASIs between level 1 and the end of ToA, and I'll likely need them for my Wisdom.

Hmm...well, if you care less about damage and wanted reach you could use a whip, just to put it out there, but I do feel the hammer is always a solid choice. Funnily enough the same Twilight Cleric I mentioned, a Kenku, took the Artificer Initiate feat with Booming Blade, but mostly so he could have his character use a self made device for his arm that he types in, so he speaks in a sort of Stephen Hawking-ish generated voice. I can't speak to HAM's utility in ToA since I never played it, but it's always been a fun option because it gives +1 Strength, and reduces Bludgeoning/Piercing/Slashing damage by 3, and does not specify nonmagical I believe so if someone is trying to stab with a dagger, best they're gonna do is maybe 1 damage plus stat, and you'll get a lot of mileage against multiattack since it should drop the damage on each attack. Resilient (Con) will always be a good choice really if you don't already have the Proficiency especially since it also nets you +1 Con with it.

[Dualight]

reduces Bludgeoning/Piercing/Slashing damage by 3, and does not specify nonmagical I believe so if someone is trying to stab with a dagger, best they're gonna do is maybe 1 damage plus stat, and you'll get a lot of mileage against multiattack since it should drop the damage on each attack.

Important note: Heavy Armour Master was subject to errata at some point. My copy of the PHB specifies that the reduced damage is from nonmagical weapons only.

[Bardbarian91]

Important note: Heavy Armour Master was subject to errata at some point. My copy of the PHB specifies that the reduced damage is from nonmagical weapons only.

Really? That's sad, I'm going to keep it as any for for my own games, since Strength is still vastly underutilized, worth checking with the DM first, but still might provide good utility even then. If you're fighting hordes of skeletons then nonmagical damage is fine anyway. As I said I can't speak to ToA usage anyways. Thanks for the clarification!

[meandean]

Important note: Heavy Armour Master was subject to errata at some point. My copy of the PHB specifies that the reduced damage is from nonmagical weapons only.It's since been further errata'd (https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/PH-Errata.pdf) to "nonmagical attacks."

(Annoyingly, if you Google "5e players handbook errata", this will probably be the second hit, rather than the first.)

[Dualight]

Thank you, I hadn't realised.

[FrancisBean]

Resilient (Con) will always be a good choice really if you don't already have the Proficiency especially since it also nets you +1 Con with it.

Strictly from an optimization perspective, ToA runs to L11; War Caster is statistically better than Resilient(Con) through Tiers I and II. And the extra +1 doesn't help if you've managed to leave yourself an even number. I thought about it, but concluded that War Caster was better than Resilient(Con) for this specific character.

...and then I went ahead and took Shield Master anyway, suboptimal and all. Even though the youth player has reckless attack, I think he'll still feel amazing attacking prone opponents. (Optimal isn't always sexy.) Now if only I can get the 4th player to pick something not 100% ranged..... The 4th player's expected Sorceress is now headed for Gloomstalker. Please not archer please not archer please not archer.....!

Side note: I can afford 2 of Toll the Dead, Sacred Flame, and Word of Radiance. I have a front-line cleric who will start at AC 18 with 10hp at level 1. Which one am I best leaving out? Reminder: the saves are Wis, Dex, and Con, respectively. Damage types are Necrotic, Radiant, and Radiant, respectively. I expect I'll grab the third at L4 anyway, but which one should I leave out until then?