Best vampire larder?

[redking]

What kind of larder would a vampire of power and means have at his or her disposal? Let's say this is a thirsty vampire, and enjoys feasting nightly. In terms of blood slaves, what kinds of creatures, classes or magical assistance provides for peak production of blood and health for the hapless blood slaves?

[Rater202]

What kind of larder would a vampire of power and means have at his or her disposal? Let's say this is a thirsty vampire, and enjoys feasting nightly. In terms of blood slaves, what kinds of creatures, classes or magical assistance provides for peak production of blood and health for the hapless blood slaves?

In terms of strict game mechanics, anything with an immunity t con damage/drain that still has blood.

In terms of logic, any flesh and blood with fast healing and/or regeneration.

[Berenger]

I think you have it backwards. People of power and means typically don't consume the most economical, readily available and conveniently storable food. Instead, they tend to prefer food that requires elaborate preparation, has rare, expensive or exotic ingredients and makes some kind of social statement (for example being very fashionable or traditional or ethically responsible). This phenomenon is called conspicuous consumption.

[Troacctid]

Traditionally, a vampire noble would conquer a village and then feed off of the villagers nightly.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Having the tarrasque shackled to a very large feasting table would likely make the PCs rather...concerned.

[Maat Mons]

Ability damage naturally heals at a rate of 1 point per day, or 2 points per day with complete bedrest. In the worst case, where the Vampire always rolls 4 on the Con damage from feeding, and the "donors" don't get any special care, the Vampire would need 4 blood sources per round of feeding he intends to do each night.

A "donor" who has the Faster Healing Feat would heal 2 points of ability damage each day no matter what.

A 1st-level Cleric with the Sacred Vitality or Spurn Death's Touch feats could really help the donors withstand more blood loss.

An Incarnate, or just someone with the Shape Soulmeld feat, could use Strongheart Vest to reduce or eliminate the Con damage from being drained of blood.

A 1st-level Binder could bind Naberius to rapidly recover from blood loss.

Draconomicon and Stronghold Builder's Guide both have magic items that can heal ability damage with no daily limit. This would allow for harvesting gallons of blood each day.

[Beni-Kujaku]

A phoenix (MM2). This is just such a mark of power to have been able to dominate a powerful creature like that, even more so one who can just explode whenever it is threatened. And finally, phoenix blood is highly magical and infused with power, with droplets acting as Fire Seeds and giving protection from fire when drunk. Not only would it be the perfect delicacy for a refined vampire, I would completely see an ancient vampire trying to get some immunity to sunlight by drinking phoenix blood every night.

[pabelfly]

What kind of larder would a vampire of power and means have at his or her disposal? Let's say this is a thirsty vampire, and enjoys feasting nightly. In terms of blood slaves, what kinds of creatures, classes or magical assistance provides for peak production of blood and health for the hapless blood slaves?

Depends on the setting, but without knowing anything, I'd just go with a group of imprisoned Elves.

[Thurbane]

An Eternal Wand of Summon Monster (or other renewable source of Summons (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23345947&postcount=4))? Not sure what Celestial animal blood tastes like, though.

Luminous Assassin (Lesser, Greater) summons an extra-dimensional human - the fluff of the spell says it summons a vaguely humanoid shaped being made of light, but the stat block unequivocally states that they are human

Oh, just thought, does the blood disappear when the summon does? Would this sate the need for Con drain?


I think you have it backwards. People of power and means typically don't consume the most economical, readily available and conveniently storable food. Instead, they tend to prefer food that requires elaborate preparation, has rare, expensive or exotic ingredients and makes some kind of social statement (for example being very fashionable or traditional or ethically responsible). This phenomenon is called conspicuous consumption.

A bold, arrogant vampire (which does seems to be the majority of them) would certainly do this.

A canny vampire, not wanting to attract hordes of murderhobos equipped with holy symbols and stakes, might be smart enough to be a bit more subtle and surreptitious.

[Maat Mons]

It may be worth noting that, according to Libris Mortis, Vampires have an addition to punching people. Every day a Vampire goes without punching someone, he needs to make a DC 25 Will save or take 1d6 Wis damage.

It may also be worth noting that any creature with 2 or fewer hit dice dies from even one Vampire punch. And anyone punched to death by a Vampire punch rises in 1d4 days as a Vampire Spawn.

D&D really has the silliest rendition of vampirism.

[JNAProductions]

It may be worth noting that, according to Libris Mortis, Vampires have an addition to punching people. Every day a Vampire goes without punching someone, he needs to make a DC 25 Will save or take 1d6 Wis damage.

It may also be worth noting that any creature with 2 or fewer hit dice dies from even one Vampire punch. And anyone punched to death by a Vampire punch rises in 1d4 days as a Vampire Spawn.

D&D really has the silliest rendition of vampirism.

...

Is that... Is that for real?

[Maat Mons]

Right there on page 9 of Libris Mortis. Vampires have an "inescapable craving" for "life force." If you read further, that means they feel a psychological compulsion to bestow negative levels, which a Vampire does with a slam attack.

Ironically, they're categorized as "diet dependent" on blood which means they can go 3 days without jonesing too hard for it, triple the time before they feel the need to slap someone.

[JNAProductions]

Right there on page 9 of Libris Mortis. Vampires have an "inescapable craving" for "life force." If you read further, that means they feel a psychological compulsion to bestow negative levels, which a Vampire does with a slam attack.

Ironically, they're categorized as "diet dependent" on blood which means they can go 3 days without jonesing too hard for it, triple the time before they feel the need to slap someone.

Okay, that makes a little more sense when you put it that way. :P

How many hit dice do cattle have?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Okay, that makes a little more sense when you put it that way. :P

How many hit dice do cattle have?Depends.

Do vampires see commoners as cattle?

I'm thinking "yes."

[redking]

I am thinking that a classy vampire only wants humanoid cattle, so that precludes troll blood (yuk!) and certain other regenerating creatures.

The Naberius Binder is a pretty good idea, but how can the vampire gourmand make sure the binder behaves?

As draining summoned creatures like the luminous assassin, what is the consensus on this? Is a summoned creature (which is conjured and only has temporary existence) a valid source of blood? Also, do summoned creatures tolerate being attacked?

Spurn Death's Touch seems like a cool option for a vampire allied cleric (or a vampire cleric) to have to maintain the health and productivity of the larder. Most definitely not what was intended for the feat, but it might even be the main use of the feat in the campaign setting.

In terms of who this vampire is, lets just say it wants to leverage its larder to gain influence with the other creatures of the night. The hunger of the creatures of the night could empty the countryside of mortals. Indeed, to a certain extent, this has already happened. So the vampire larder is a necessity.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A nipple clamp An ioun stone of exquisite pain would give victims a bit of a reason not to struggle. Too hard, at least.

[MornShine]

There is some tenuous RAW for the tastiest creature:

Dragon #330, p.87, has the Flaw 'Delicious'.

It seems logical that someone who is delicious to the point of mechanical disadvantage, would be, well, delicious.

Per the text, the person with the flaw 'goes down smooth'– which refers to the Swallow Whole ability, but is also a phrase meaning "to be pleasant to drink". Q.E.D.

[Raven777]

I think you have it backwards. People of power and means typically don't consume the most economical, readily available and conveniently storable food. Instead, they tend to prefer food that requires elaborate preparation, has rare, expensive or exotic ingredients and makes some kind of social statement (for example being very fashionable or traditional or ethically responsible). This phenomenon is called conspicuous consumption.

I found this Dr. McNinja comic (http://drmcninja.com/archives/comic/10p20/) to be both relevant to the discussion and a good illustration of your point.

[Satinavian]

As draining summoned creatures like the luminous assassin, what is the consensus on this? Is a summoned creature (which is conjured and only has temporary existence) a valid source of blood? Also, do summoned creatures tolerate being attacked?
We have always played it the way that summoned creatures work. Especcially after LM insisted that vampires need the level draining in addition to blood. While it is easy to get sustainable blood supplies, it is way harder to get sustainable level supplies and you don't want every vampire holed up somewhere for some years to have created hundreds of spawns.

As for sources of blood only, but not levels, well, a vampire of power and means should just go for personal taste. It is pretty trivial to prevent death from blood loss so other concerns like taste should be more relevant. You don't need a huge number of victims or such.

[redking]

We have always played it the way that summoned creatures work. Especcially after LM insisted that vampires need the level draining in addition to blood. While it is easy to get sustainable blood supplies, it is way harder to get sustainable level supplies and you don't want every vampire holed up somewhere for some years to have created hundreds of spawns.

As for sources of blood only, but not levels, well, a vampire of power and means should just go for personal taste. It is pretty trivial to prevent death from blood loss so other concerns like taste should be more relevant. You don't need a huge number of victims or such.

If I recall correctly, the level draining is necessary for the vampire to survive, while the blood draining is a kind of psychological compulsion. Actually stratch that. I just checked LM and it's the other way around. LM took things in a strange direction and really complicates the larder if those rules are used.

[SangoProduction]

Clerics. I mean, clerics that preferably worship you, but also clerics that worship things that are friendly, or at least not hostile to you. And that actually keep to that habit.
They just heal any damage you deal. And then are off on their lovely way.

[Maat Mons]

Since the “need” to drain energy is purely psychological, a Vampire could just get a reliable way of making a DC 25 Will save, or a way of healing the Wisdom damage. But that would just be surviving. Presumably, Vampires desire a higher standard of living than constantly having to fight off their urges.

Draining energy from animals can eliminate the Spawn problem. But then again, drinking blood from animals would also solve the thirst issue. Vampires probably don’t like animal blood very well, and that could easily also apply to animal life force.

A Vampire could instead prevent their victims from rising as Vampire Spawn by burring them on Hallowed ground. It might also work to decapitate or cremate the corpse.

A 1st-level Commoner could be made to survive the level drain via Inspire Greatness, at least briefly. Otherwise, you’d need to stick to 3rd-level energy donors. A 3rd-level Human could, without flaws, could have the Lasting Life feat, which would allow them to purge the negative levels without magic.

[redking]

A 1st-level Commoner could be made to survive the level drain via Inspire Greatness, at least briefly. Otherwise, you’d need to stick to 3rd-level energy donors. A 3rd-level Human could, without flaws, could have the Lasting Life feat, which would allow them to purge the negative levels without magic.

The level fetish really throws a wrench into the efficacy of the vampire larder. Since I've not actually seen this need portrayed in D&D fiction, including the Ravenloft stuff, I'm not going to consider it important for my purposes. I'll crack down on animal blood however. No more than 1/4 of feedings should be of animal blood. It's not that easy to escape from the implications of the curse of vampirism.

I'm thinking that simulacrums could be an option. Yeah, they are only "partially real", but they seem to be real enough to be a viable feeding option. The simulacrums can have all the bells and whistles of a Naberius Binder as well. Could this be a form of ethical vampiric feeding?

[Dimers]

There is some tenuous RAW for the tastiest creature:

Dragon #330, p.87, has the Flaw 'Delicious'.

It seems logical that someone who is delicious to the point of mechanical disadvantage, would be, well, delicious.

Per the text, the person with the flaw 'goes down smooth'– which refers to the Swallow Whole ability, but is also a phrase meaning "to be pleasant to drink". Q.E.D.

This is certainly one correct answer. A vampire who lives (undeaths) for simple pleasures, or whose target audience does, would build a stable of delicious creatures.

Personally I think of vampires as more convoluted than that. They think of themselves as lords, far above the hoi-polloi who care about such things as "direct pleasure" and "ease of use". So I agree more with the conspicuous consumption answer. A master vampire would demand rarities and acquired tastes and other things that show how he's separate from 'the herd'.

[Metastachydium]

Draining energy from animals can eliminate the Spawn problem. But then again, drinking blood from animals would also solve the thirst issue. Vampires probably don’t like animal blood very well, and that could easily also apply to animal life force.


I'll crack down on animal blood however. No more than 1/4 of feedings should be of animal blood. It's not that easy to escape from the implications of the curse of vampirism.

I don't follow. Why would a vampire restrict itself to feeding on lowly animals? It's not like that's the only type around besides (monstrous) humanoids. (Native) outsiders and fey are a thing, and they sound delicious. And then, there's giants. True, Blood Drain is grappling-based and even medium giants tend to have Powerful Build, but hey, I call that a CHALLENGE!

Elans and the like also strike me as a nice gourmet substitute for human, as do araneas. Come on folks! This isn't Twilight. With a game like 3.5, the sky's the limit!

[dristi]

In the ancient days, web developers did not get solid reasons and data to make a website—their all work was based upon guesses.

[Maat Mons]

I've always imagined that Elan blood tastes vile to vampires. They were once human, sure. But they've been transformed to have the same biology as the alien beings of the Far Realms. I mean, if someone hybridized a cow with bizarre monstrosities form a horror dimension, can you imagine it making a good burger?

[Jack_Simth]

The Naberius Binder is a pretty good idea, but how can the vampire gourmand make sure the binder behaves? Such a pity that Vampires don't get some kind of at-will Dominate Person ability. Like, maybe a gaze? I should check their statblock....

[Metastachydium]

I've always imagined that Elan blood tastes vile to vampires. They were once human, sure. But they've been transformed to have the same biology as the alien beings of the Far Realms.

That's not impossible, but don't tell me you can't hear the snotty, snobbish vampires intoning in a voice as smug and condescending as it gets something like "Dear me. Please do pardon my absolute thoughtlessness; elans certainly have an acquired taste, and it takes a refined palate to truly enjoy one. Back in the day, you see, I mingled more with like-minded old conoisseurs who could appreciate the simple joys of our endless existenceas I do. Old habits do die hard, it would seem!"

[Thurbane]

Such a pity that Vampires don't get some kind of at-will Dominate Person ability. Like, maybe a gaze? I should check their statblock....

The vamp could also offer the Binder immortality - plenty of literary and pop culture instances of mortals serving vampires for the promise of being turned one day.

[redking]

It looks like binders are the way to go. Possibly simulacrums binders for maximal safety within the larder and for keeping the public peace from without (no missing peasants).

Looks like the thirst can be pretty well managed if the vampire has wealth and resources available.

[Maat Mons]

Simulacrum requires that you have a 13th-level Wizard in your service. Or that you are a 13th-level Wizard. Either way, a significant barrier to entry.

It should be pretty easy to have a bunch of Binders. I think part of the lore is that the class isn't hard to take up. I mean, part of the lore is also that knowledge of the class is suppressed. But if you find one willing to act as a teacher, you should wind up with as many as you want on short order.

The one issue with Binders is that it's a solution that needs to be implemented once for each donor. I mean, the whole training process is something handled by servants of yours, so you don't personally need to worry about it. But it means the size of your Binder training program needs to scale with the number of donors.

Imagine you want to have every Humanoid race represented in your larder, so your guests can experience the full spectrum of flavors. Taste the rainbow, if you will. That means you need to recruit and train members of every humanoid race. That's much harder than just kidnapping members of every humanoid race.

Also, some of those races are short-lived, so you'll need to train replacements pretty rapidly. If there's nothing special about the donors, and the healing is handled by a servant other than the one being fed on, then you can reduce the training burden by only filling those positions with long-lived races, without also limiting your menu options.

Personally, the option I favor is a Lesser Bed of Restoration (Stronghold Builder's Guide, p70). It's a 6,000-gp magic item that can cast Lesser Restoration up to once every three rounds. A Vampire who owns one can just drink from anyone, have them lie down on the magic bed for a little bit, and repeat.

If you're a Vampire of means who wishes to host blood-feasts, I'd instead opt for a Platform of Healing (Draconomicon, p85).

Though this does beg a question. Are the Vampires drinking directly from the donors, or is the blood presented to them in glasses? If it's the former, you'd have to worry about a guest taking too much. At a rate of 1d4 Con damage per round, a typical Human could last for 2 to 9 rounds before they need a break. And the variation in Con scores makes this even harder to predict. Oddly, Gnomes contain more blood than Elves, in spite of being smaller. I assume this means Gnome blood is under very high pressure.

[redking]

Though this does beg a question. Are the Vampires drinking directly from the donors, or is the blood presented to them in glasses? If it's the former, you'd have to worry about a guest taking too much. At a rate of 1d4 Con damage per round, a typical Human could last for 2 to 9 rounds before they need a break. And the variation in Con scores makes this even harder to predict. Oddly, Gnomes contain more blood than Elves, in spite of being smaller. I assume this means Gnome blood is under very high pressure.

I had to check gnomes on the SRD. +2 to Constitution. Didn't see that coming. Vampires out there doing a public service for the gnomish community in relieving hypertension.

[Jack_Simth]

I had to check gnomes on the SRD. +2 to Constitution. Didn't see that coming. Vampires out there doing a public service for the gnomish community in relieving hypertension.

Or their bodies are spongier, and so they contain more blood in their tissues. Which I suppose would make them "bloody gnomes".

[Maat Mons]

I prefer the interpretation that gnomes gush like Hanbei (https://youtu.be/SfpagB8wWng?t=90).