Grimiest grittiest rest rule

[noob]

The ultimate resting rule: you do not rest ever.
How far can you go with this rule?
(you do not regain resources on level up, you merely gain any additional resources the level gets you so if you spent all your spell slots and gain a level, you will only have the latest high level slots you gained)
(no at will healing: any source of healing that is normally limitless now can heal a creature for a total equal to its highest max hp it had in its life)

[Skrum]

Not very far at all. HP would be the constraint; melee characters would last 2, maybe 3 encounters before they're out. And that's assuming none of the encounters are especially dangerous. Dangerous encounter, and it's 1.

[Anymage]

A bit over a week. Mounting exhaustion will catch up with you quickly.

If the goal is a character who can never recover resources, sneaky archer rogue is your best bet. I still have no idea how long one could last before incidental damage or suffering for the occasional bad roll would finally take them down, but decent resourceless damage on top of good ability to avoid/evade return attacks is probably the best you could hope for.

[Skrum]

A bit over a week. Mounting exhaustion will catch up with you quickly.

If the goal is a character who can never recover resources, sneaky archer rogue is your best bet. I still have no idea how long one could last before incidental damage or suffering for the occasional bad roll would finally take them down, but decent resourceless damage on top of good ability to avoid/evade return attacks is probably the best you could hope for.

It'd depend a lot on the context of the encounters too. Implicit in a lot of ranged builds not taking fire is another character (a melee, usually) being a "freer" target that draws the attacks. Well that falls apart if everyone is a sneaky ranged character.

Granted, if each encounter is set up so the party can freely run away and re-engage on their own terms, they could handle some tough encounters (with a bit of luck). But if their movement is constrained, if the enemy can match their ranged attacks, or they fail a spell save, they're going to crumple very quickly. Rogues are evasive, but that doesn't mean they actually tanky. And they have the exact same constraints on their hit points as everyone else

[Dualight]

Assuming Xanathar's penalty for not resting: no more than 4(DC 25 Con save versus exhaustion, assuming a positive CON mod and Point-buy, rolled stats could add 1 more dayby means of 20 CON, as well as a nat 20 on all saves)) days without exhaustion, and then the characters are guaranteed to be dead at the end of day 8.
If this is not a constraint, characters with high at-will damage and/or utility are suddenly far more valuable than otherwise.
Wizards end up the most powerful casters (as expected), due to Arcane Recovery reactivating 1/day(Disregard, I forgot that Arcane Recovery only activates during short rests, so wizards are still screwed).

[animorte]

Easy, provided the aforementioned exhaustion penalties are ignored.

Go with a combat avoiding cantrip master. Never run out of those spells and use them to end/escape combat as soon as possible. Stay sneaky and elusive. Save your few higher slots (if you have any) for emergencies only.

There are a great deal of magic items that reset by the day that will allow you healing, spells, and all manner of usefulness, if you can get them.

I’ve played quite a few low resource adventures, though none going more than a few days without rest.

[Mastikator]

No arcane focus or material focus, only actual materials.

[Gignere]

If I had to optimize with these rules I’d probably go some sort of rogue / hexblade using misty visions, cover of darkness, Devil sight and stealth the hell out of everything. Keep the warlock levels low maybe 2 or 3 levels. Rogue will likely be assassin and grab alert feat using vhuman at level 1. With these rules surprise and losing initiative could mean death so winning initiative and never getting surprised is crucial.

Since you can’t afford to get into attritional battle you really need to be able to kill in the first round so assassin is ideal with the guaranteed crit and all. Warlock is to get the medium armor and shield plus at will silent image.

[Willowhelm]

Live a normal life and you’re fine. Just like all the other npcs that live to die of old age.

Have a ton of money and you’re also fine. Hirelings, magic items, pay for healing and restoration spells…

So it’s either impossible or trivial. Needs more constraints!

[animorte]

With these rules surprise and losing initiative could mean death so winning initiative and never getting surprised is crucial.

Swashbuckler Rogue adds your Charisma bonus to initiative.

[Gignere]

Swashbuckler Rogue adds your Charisma bonus to initiative.

That’s a good choice too but I think the auto crit during surprise round is a bit stronger when you can’t recover hps. Basically you have 1 shot to kill.

[Dimers]

Isn't the modern coffeelock based on some Eldritch Invocation that prevents exhaustion when you don't rest? Seems like that invocation would be necessary. Warlock has some very nice options anyway -- chain for an improved familiar, fiend for temp HP, lots of invocations that help you allay trouble or improve at-will attacks. You can get more out of the fiend feature by buying a bunch of chickens (2 coppers apiece), making them hostile with the friends cantrip and then blasting them in their cages.

I'd start with 1 rogue level for Expertise in stealth and perception, plus proficiency in Dex saves to reduce damage taken. Then at least three warlock levels for invocations, Dark One's Blessing and imp familiar. Then mix rogue and warlock levels to taste, they're both super useful for this challenge.

[animorte]

Isn't the modern coffeelock based on some Eldritch Invocation that prevents exhaustion when you don't rest?

Here ya go!

Aspect of the Moon
Prerequisite: Pact of the Tome feature
You no longer need to sleep and can’t be forced to sleep by any means. To gain the benefits of a long rest, you can spend all 8 hours doing light activity, such as reading your Book of Shadows and keeping watch.

You still get exhausted by not resting. The solution is removing that with Greater Restoration, which is a higher level spell slot that you will run out of fairly quickly.

So I guess the question is: what level is this test starting out and how fast can you level?

[noob]

How about level 1 and regular xp rules?
You can make any team provided all the characters starts at level 1 and have standard arrays for stats.
(and yes, if you can see an interesting use for a 30000 character team, it is interesting to watch how it works)

[Dimers]

One wizard team member defeats other team members until she has enough XP to learn wish, wishes herself immune to exhaustion, goes into seclusion for the rest of her life. Or maybe true polymorph, if there's some monster that's immune to exhaustion. Ooh, better still, a monster with at-will restoration to let the rest of the team survive the next few days!

I have no idea if this works by RAW -- can you get XP from someone who could be treated as an ally? Maybe it'd be better to buy horses with team members' starting cash, make them hostile with friends, and defeat them from outside carefully constructed kill-boxes.

One team member should have spare the dying so that nobody actually risks dying from helping somebody else become an all-star. They can then be re-used: "A stable creature that isn’t healed regains 1 hit point after 1d4 hours", no rest needed.

[Jakinbandw]

Tasha has a religious order group patron that allows you access to free level 5 spells. This would solve the restoration and hp issues. You'd just have to stay near a church with a caster that can cast 5th level spells.

I think cleric would be a good option for one member of the party as they can use divine intervention on a 10 day cool down for some access to high level spells.

[H_H_F_F]

Fiendish vigor isn't healing, so it won't be constrained by the special rule. It's a good start, and you could get it with a feat at level 1 even without being a warlock.

[ff7hero]

You still get exhausted by not resting.

(Citation needed)

Don't forget the part of the rule that tells you when to use it. ;)

[H_H_F_F]

(Citation needed)

Don't forget the part of the rule that tells you when to use it. ;)

I don't know that retreading that argument here is worth doing.

Back on point, uncanny dodge would be pretty tight. Rogue with eldritch adept (fiendish vigor) maybe?

[follacchioso]

You would never be able to level up, as that requires a rest as well.

A Reborn lv1 Fiend Warlock could fare well, by killing low CR creatures to get temp HP, and survive for longer.

[Dualight]

Needing to rest to gain a level is a house rule, the PHB calls out only needing the required XP. Page 15.
EDIT: It is a reasonable house rule for the narrative, but it is a house rule nonetheless

[kazaryu]

The ultimate resting rule: you do not rest ever.
How far can you go with this rule?
(you do not regain resources on level up, you merely gain any additional resources the level gets you so if you spent all your spell slots and gain a level, you will only have the latest high level slots you gained)
(no at will healing: any source of healing that is normally limitless now can heal a creature for a total equal to its highest max hp it had in its life) ok, so im going based on the assumption that you're referring to 'how far into an adventure' and that the party knows that they're gonna be boned for resources.

I'd think a party of rogues. probably with a single level of grave cleric, and the healer feat. the rogue subclass' don't really matter as much, they all come with benefits and drawbacks. (i.e. swashbucklers rakish audacity is nice...but in order to use the second bullet point you need to be in melee. so you really only get half the feature).

TBH, i actually think that that party has the potential to make it to lvl 20. it'd be difficult for sure, you're relying on using the money you get from adventuring to purchase healing. but rogues don't really run out of resources.


Not very far at all. HP would be the constraint; melee characters would last 2, maybe 3 encounters before they're out. And that's assuming none of the encounters are especially dangerous. i think you're underestimating how far a party can carry themselves. when desperate. i agree that a normal party would likely not make too far into a long (ish) adventure. although they could certainly complete specific one-shots.
Dangerous encounter, and it's 1.
considering a normal party can make it through 1 combat encounter this isn't true. logically, if you can't rest to restore resources, then you can make it as far as a normal party could make it without needing to rest (at a minimum).

[H_H_F_F]

ok, so im going based on the assumption that you're referring to 'how far into an adventure' and that the party knows that they're gonna be boned for resources.

I'd think a party of rogues. probably with a single level of grave cleric, and the healer feat. the rogue subclass' don't really matter as much, they all come with benefits and drawbacks. (i.e. swashbucklers rakish audacity is nice...but in order to use the second bullet point you need to be in melee. so you really only get half the feature).

TBH, i actually think that that party has the potential to make it to lvl 20. it'd be difficult for sure, you're relying on using the money you get from adventuring to purchase healing. but rogues don't really run out of resources.

i think you're underestimating how far a party can carry themselves. when desperate. i agree that a normal party would likely not make too far into a long (ish) adventure. although they could certainly complete specific one-shots.
considering a normal party can make it through 1 combat encounter this isn't true. logically, if you can't rest to restore resources, then you can make it as far as a normal party could make it without needing to rest (at a minimum).

Potions are an unlimited source of healing, which the OP restricted. You'll never ever make it to 20. Free temp hp is your best bet, but the numbers just stagnate too much later in the game.

A cleric would be terrible, in my opinion. Off the top of my head, the only at-will resource it can offer is divine strike, and that comes very late.

Agreed on rogues being the best choice. Reliable ranged damage, high skills mean a better chance of picking and choosing your battles. If you somehow manage to make it to level 5, uncanny dodge would be great.

[Jakinbandw]

Potions are an unlimited source of healing, which the OP restricted. You'll never ever make it to 20. Free temp hp is your best bet, but the numbers just stagnate too much later in the game.

A cleric would be terrible, in my opinion. Off the top of my head, the only at-will resource it can offer is divine strike, and that comes very late.

Agreed on rogues being the best choice. Reliable ranged damage, high skills mean a better chance of picking and choosing your battles. If you somehow manage to make it to level 5, uncanny dodge would be great.

Is there any source of healing that isn't limitless by that definition?

[JonBeowulf]

I'm surprised champion fighter hasn't made an appearance yet. "What are these 'abilities that recharge on a rest' that you're talking about?"

Fighter gets you all the ASIs and feats you need.
Take archery fighting style and stay at range.
Crit-fish with half-orc or snag the races bonuses from wood elf.

[H_H_F_F]

Is there any source of healing that isn't limitless by that definition?

Anything that only recharges on a rest. I thought that was pretty clearly the OP's intent, in context. Do you disagree?

[Jakinbandw]

Anything that only recharges on a rest. I thought that was pretty clearly the OP's intent, in context. Do you disagree?

Spells recharge on a long rest, but you can hire a spellcaster to cast them on you for money. This suggests that they healing spells are an unlimited resource, thus you can heal with them better than with potions.

If items and spells are unlimited sources of healing, I'm not sure what that leaves.

[H_H_F_F]

Spells recharge on a long rest, but you can hire a spellcaster to cast them on you for money.

Good point.

[kazaryu]

Potions are an unlimited source of healing, which the OP restricted. You'll never ever make it to 20. Free temp hp is your best bet, but the numbers just stagnate too much later in the game. im pretty sure they were referring to something that actually infinitely heals. not discreet finite healing. healing potions are gated by income, which inherently forces the party into danger. seems to me that they're pretty perfectly within the intent of the challenge. but i agree with your deeper premise that the OP was a bit vague.



A cleric would be terrible, in my opinion. Off the top of my head, the only at-will resource it can offer is divine strike, and that comes very late.
this is why i said 1 level, and specifically grave cleric. BA ranged spare the dying means you can stabilize a fallen ally without giving up your damage for the turn. its one of those things you don't want to rely on, but its GREAT if you have it when you need it. you also get a 3 cleric cantrips besides that, guidance for sure. resistance isn't terribly useful, but its uses have a better chance of coming up for this group, but mostly guidance would be helpful. a single level of cleric would also get you ritual casting, so you're able to at least have detect magic consistently. you'd also all theoretically be able to cast spells from cleric scrolls. and then on top of all of that you have 2x the number of party members worth of healing words, which would optimally be used early to get you through the first 2-3 levels.


you could do it straight rogue. but i think the single level dip into grave cleric, specifically, more than pays for itself in the long run.