Give me 5e stats for a human baby (I can explain)

[Damon_Tor]

"So when can I write my own spells?" said the wizard's player.

"When can you what?" I asked.

"Write my own spells. That do what I want."

"...Well that depends. What do you want a spell to do."

"Go back in time. I'm a TIME WIZARD. Why can't I time travel?"

"Get me an arcana check"

"To make the spell?" He asks hopefully.

"To see if you know why you can't"

He rolls "Twelve."

"Well, you're pretty sure your professors back in magic college said something about the luminous veil and 10th-plus level spells and something like that. You tuned it out."

"I'm going to try"

"You're going to try... to cast a spell to go back in time. Just, like... right now? In the middle of the forest?"

"F**k yeah. I've got two 5th level slots. Add them together, that's just as good as a 10th level slot, right?"

So anyway, he's a baby now. He turned himself into a baby. He gets to keep his mental stats and wizard levels, because I am cruel and merciful, but he's a full-blown baby physically. Crawls around, probably permanently prone. Tiny. Poops his pants. The whole deal.

How exactly would you adjudicate this?

[P. G. Macer]

So anyway, he's a baby now. He turned himself into a baby. He gets to keep his mental stats and wizard levels, because I am cruel and merciful, but he's a full-blown baby physically. Crawls around, probably permanently prone. Tiny. Poops his pants. The whole deal.

How exactly would you adjudicate this?

This is neither RAW nor mainstream D&D canon but several years ago for two Acquisitions Incorporated games, Chris Perkins had a magical curse in Omu in Chult turn ¾ of the party into 8-year olds. The PCs’ Strength and Constitution scores turned to 1d4, as did the characters’ hit points. Since 8-year-olds therefore are already so low, for your baby PC I’d just assign the number 1 (modifier –5) to all their physical stats and 1 maximum hit point. Perkins also gave the affected PCs’ players a number of “get out of trouble” tokens to negate harmful and otherwise-lethal circumstances so the show could continue. You could potentially include those as well, depending on how merciful you feel.

The simultaneously cruelest and most merciful option, however, may be to just turn the baby-wizard into an NPC, à la PC vampires and werebeasts. Playing the baby-wizard will likely be a chore, and (this is most important) your other players may to be comfortable with bringing a baby into harm’s way where they could easily be killed.

[PhoenixPhyre]

The simultaneously cruelest and most merciful option, however, may be to just turn the baby-wizard into an NPC, à la PC vampires and werebeasts. Playing the baby-wizard will likely be a chore, and (this is most important) your other players may to be comfortable with bringing a baby into harm’s way where they could easily be killed.

I agree with this. Basically, the baby should have
* 1 HP
* 5 ft movement
* -5 to all physical stats
* +10 Charisma
* no languages
* inability to cast spells with verbal or somatic components (due to not being able to actually, you know, pronounce things or move reliably)
* no proficiencies with anything physical.

Better to just NPC them unless they can get fixed.

[mucat]

It's kind of mind-boggling that he had the power to do this in the first place. After all, if an incompetent wizard can de-age himself using fifth-level spell slots, couldn't a competent one figure out how to do similar things on purpose (either to gain decades of lifespan -- in which case the target age is probably somewhere in the young adult range -- or to reduce enemies to drooling poop factories?)

So if it was just at the end of the last session that the player learned this fate, I would be tempted to give it a twist: the spell warped the wizard's mind, and he now thinks he's a small infant. In reality, there's a grown man rolling around on the forest floor drooling, babbling incoherently, and losing control of bodily functions at alarming moments.

Even if he still has a functioning intellect and understands language, he does not understand anyone explaining things that go against his new perceptions. Until they manage to fix it (a project that I would not make take too long; the joke will wear thin quickly) this is his reality.

[animorte]

This reminds me. Shortly after my wife and I had our first child, we decided to write up a stat block for a boss battle baby. Lots of charisma, weak claw attack, sonic AoE spell, stinking cloud, grapple attack, a few other things I don't recall. It was amusing to say the least.

[TaiLiu]

So if it was just at the end of the last session that the player learned this fate, I would be tempted to give it a twist: the spell warped the wizard's mind, and he now thinks he's a small infant. In reality, there's a grown man rolling around on the forest floor drooling, babbling incoherently, and losing control of bodily functions at alarming moments.
I really like this solution. There are huge ramifications if he actually made himself into a baby. Let the effect be removable via greater restoration, heal, or wish.

[JackPhoenix]

It's kind of mind-boggling that he had the power to do this in the first place. After all, if an incompetent wizard can de-age himself using fifth-level spell slots, couldn't a competent one figure out how to do similar things on purpose (either to gain decades of lifespan -- in which case the target age is probably somewhere in the young adult range -- or to reduce enemies to drooling poop factories?)

Well, level 1 wild magic sorcerer can kill himself and his party with a Fireball with using level 1 spell slot, but it takes level 5 and 3rd level slot to do the same thing intentionally and reliably. Not that different from de-aging himself way too much with 5th level instead of 10th level slot.


So if it was just at the end of the last session that the player learned this fate, I would be tempted to give it a twist: the spell warped the wizard's mind, and he now thinks he's a small infant. In reality, there's a grown man rolling around on the forest floor drooling, babbling incoherently, and losing control of bodily functions at alarming moments.

Sounds like Feeblemind to me....

[Damon_Tor]

It's kind of mind-boggling that he had the power to do this in the first place. After all, if an incompetent wizard can de-age himself using fifth-level spell slots, couldn't a competent one figure out how to do similar things on purpose (either to gain decades of lifespan -- in which case the target age is probably somewhere in the young adult range -- or to reduce enemies to drooling poop factories?)

It's not a permanent effect. And if the wizard player would like to codify his discovery as a new spell I'm 100% onboard with that.

[Damon_Tor]

Update: The player would absolutely like to study the effect and codify it as a new spell. Once he has some downtime (5 workdays, I expect) to experiment, here's what I'm thinking for the result:

Archaemaleon's Age Adjuster
5th level Transmutation (Chronomancy)
Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: Touch
Target: A living creature you can see within range
Components: V S M (A clock worth at least 100gp)
Duration: 8 hours

This spell temporarily changes the physical age of the target, though their memories, personality, and metal abilities remain unchanged. An unwilling creature can make a constitution save to avoid the effect, and creatures that do not age (such as most constructs and undead) are unaffected. When you cast this spell, roll 1d20 and consult the following table to determine what changes take place. You may add or subtract a number no greater than your intelligence modifier to this roll to modify the result. These effects may differ for creatures that age very differently from typical humanoids, at the discretion of the dungeon master. For example, dragons have well-defined age categories which should be used in place of this table. When the spell ends, the creature returns to the age they were before the spell took effect.


1 or Less: Infancy. The target is reduced to a baby, barely able to walk: Its size is reduced by 2 size categories, its speed becomes 5, its strength, constitution, and dexterity scores all become 1, and its hit dice shrink by two sizes. (Its maximum hitpoints change to reflect the new hit dice and constitution)
2-5: Child. The target becomes a child: Its size is reduced by 1 size category, its speed is reduced by 10 feet, its strength, constitution, and dexterity scores are all reduced by half (round up) and its hit dice shrink by one size (Its maximum hitpoints change to reflect the new hit dice and constitution)
6-15: Adult. There are no changes to the creature's statistics, but they may look and feel younger or older depending on the roll. For example, the lowest roll of 6 results in a teenager just past adolescence, while the highest roll of 15 results in a middle-aged person on the cusp of old age.
16-19: Elderly. The target is aged past its prime. Its speed is reduced by 10 feet, its strength, constitution, and dexterity scores are all reduced by 2 and its hit dice shrink by one size (Its maximum hitpoints change to reflect the new hit dice and constitution)
20 or More: Ancient. The target is aged to the frailty of a life lived far longer than normal. Its speed is reduced by 20 feet, its strength, constitution, and dexterity scores are all reduced by 4 and its hit dice shrink by two sizes (Its maximum hitpoints change to reflect the new hit dice and constitution).


The table assumes the target creature is an adult: when used on a creature who is not an adult, the dungeon master may modify the table at their discretion. The spell cannot reduce a creature to an age younger than infant nor older than ancient.

At Higher Levels: When cast with a 6th level spell slot, the duration increases to 24 hours. When cast with a 7th level spell slot, the duration increases to 30 days. When cast with an 8th level spell slot, the duration increases to a year and a day. When cast with a 9th level spell slot, the change is permanent unless dispelled. If the spell is permanent, the creature will continue to age normally for their species.

There's plenty of wiggle room in the text for off-label uses, like when creatures don't follow the same aging rules as humans and near-humans. On a typical target it can be an effective (if somewhat fiddly) save or suck spell. A mid-level wizard could cast it on himself every day at 6th level to remain young(ish) indefinitely (though his apparent age would fluctuate from day to day: he might look like a teenager one day and middle-aged the next) and at 9th level it can be used for a permanent(ish) age reset.

[meandean]

On a typical target it can be an effective (if somewhat fiddly) save or suck spell.Sure, but 4th-level save-or-suck spell polymorph is a concentration spell. And, its effect also ends if the target takes enough damage. (Thus, turning something into a weaker creature will disable them better, but also discourages you from actually attacking them, and is easier for their allies to counter.) Should a 5th-level save-or-suck spell be non-concentration with a minimum duration of 8 hours (increasing exponentially if you upcast it)???

Admittedly, it's not as consistently a complete disable as polymorph, but if you have INT 20 and roll 6 or lower or 15 or higher -- so, 60% of the time -- it pretty much will be. I would still say it should be concentration, and have a shorter duration and/or some other way the duration ends. Perhaps if you mostly want the flavor of someone who tries to bend time for his own benefit, it can have different effects on yourself than on others, or indeed not even be usable at all on others.

[arnin77]

Definitely charisma 20

Also they deal psychic damage when trying to get them to sleep, eat, into a car seat, dressed, diaper changed…

[Segev]

So anyway, he's a baby now. He turned himself into a baby. He gets to keep his mental stats and wizard levels, because I am cruel and merciful, but he's a full-blown baby physically. Crawls around, probably permanently prone. Tiny. Poops his pants. The whole deal.

How exactly would you adjudicate this?

1s in physical stats. 2s at best. If he can crawl, give him a 10 ft. movement speed but keep him permanently prone. Maybe let him pull himself to his feet with a table or other support that is firmly self-standing on its own (not a cane or a crutch).

Requires a concentration check to utter anything coherent, otehrwise it comes out as baby-blather due to not enough teeth and no muscle memory for how to form sounds. This applies equally to speaking coherent sentences and spellcasting. If you want to be gentle and generous, spellcasting can fail (when he fails the concentration check) without losing the spell slots or any consumed materials, because he fails THAT HARD at it so it never even begins. The DC should be set based on complexity of what he's saying. For speech, you'll have to adjudicate. For spells, make it DC 15+spell level. (Spellcasting is pretty hard, you see.)

This applies to spells with or without verbal components.

If you think that's too cruel, make it an Intelligence (Arcana) check for verbal components, and a Dexterity (Arcana) check for somatic. That's still pretty harsh, so maybe lower the DC on the somatic components.

If he can hold materials in hand, he doesn't need a check for those components. I don't know of many spells (or any 1st-party ones) that are M only, though.

Remember that somebody else is going to have to open and turn the pages of his spellbook for him while he studies it to change spells, too. Maybe he'll get lucky and be able to get an unseen servant or mage hand to do it: those follow orders or are mentally-controlled, and should still work.

If you want to keep him playable long-term, let him eventually re-master verbal and somatic components, or come up with a work-around (maybe he learns the Telekinetic feat and can use the mage hand for somatic components, and trains a Raven familiar to speak the verbal components for him, for example).

But he's going to need support to be out there on his own.


I would NOT take away his hp, just adjust them for his new Constitution. They can represent any number of things besides physical hardiness: luck, protagonist plot armor, magical shielding from his arcane might, reluctance to hit a baby...lots of things. And, of course, he'll probably want false life now, too. He might even think of trying to be carried in a box with a slit to let him see out, giving him full cover against most things, and being carried by one of the PCs or on a litter carried by an unseen servant or phantom steed. Let him be creative and find solutions to his problems.

He's essentially a fragile rock that can cast spells, now.

[Rukelnikov]

This actually happened to one of my PCs when he was 30, he was turned into a 3 year old but still retained his mind (which AFAIR no one else knew at the time). I went on playing him once again after many years had passed and he was about 15.

It was a SWd6 char, I played him again once we moved to SWd20.

I got to have the, back then, mental benefits from old age, but without the penalties since bodywise it was still a teen. It was a pretty interesting piece of RP and literally gave new life to the char. I liked it.

[Damon_Tor]

Sure, but 4th-level save-or-suck spell polymorph is a concentration spell, and its effect also ends if the target takes enough damage (thus, turning something into a weaker creature will disable them better, but perhaps make it easier for their allies to counter.) Should a 5th-level save-or-suck spell be non-concentration with a minimum duration of 8 hours (increasing exponentially if you upcast it)???

Admittedly, it's not as consistently a complete disable as polymorph, but if you have INT 20 and roll 6 or lower or 15 or higher -- so, 60% of the time -- it pretty much will be. I would still say it should be concentration, and have a shorter duration and/or some other way the duration ends. Perhaps if you mostly want the flavor of someone who tries to bend time for his own benefit, it can have different effects on yourself than on others, or indeed not even be usable at all on others.

As a save-or-suck, I don't think it compares favorably to Hold Monster or Synaptic Static, both also 5th level. The range of touch is a factor (at this level of play getting a familiar to actually get to a target and stay alive there long enough to get a touch spell off isn't easy) and the fact that the target is left with its full complement of non-physical abilities intact. In fact its only really a save-or-suck at all for physical threats: against spell-casting enemies it's basically the equivalent of a damage-dealing spell, because all that happens of any consequence is that their hitpoints get reduced. Plus I made it a con save, which means that the enemies who would be most inconvenienced by it would also be the least likely to be affected.

If I decide I don't want the spell to have combat implications I'll bump the casting time up to 1 minute, but right now I think it's fine.

[Unoriginal]

So anyway, he's a baby now. He turned himself into a baby. He gets to keep his mental stats and wizard levels, because I am cruel and merciful, but he's a full-blown baby physically. Crawls around, probably permanently prone. Tiny. Poops his pants. The whole deal.

How exactly would you adjudicate this?

A baby is a Tiny noncombatant with 0 speed.

[Diovid]

A baby is a Tiny noncombatant with 0 speed.
Both a baby being a noncombatant and a baby having 0 speed are clearly false statements.

[Vorpalchicken]

10 experience points

[animorte]

Both a baby being a noncombatant and a baby having 0 speed are clearly false statements.
Can 100% verify. If this needs more clarification, you haven’t been around tiny ones much.

[Samayu]

It's not a permanent effect. And if the wizard player would like to codify his discovery as a new spell I'm 100% onboard with that.

You mean like, with a duration, or like, twenty years go by and he's back to normal? I assume that since he's asking to codify the spell, he retained his memory and everything?

Then I would make his physical attributes all 1's, and keeps his mental stats the same. Charisma should not be adjusted, since he'll need that to convince people that he actually is a baby, and hence cute. Otherwise we're looking at some sort of uncanny valley disconnect between a baby and a wizard (who sounds like a frat boy).