Help make my Barbarian useful

[Squash63]

Barbarian help

I’m currently running a barbarian in my home campaign, but I rolled **** for stats and find myself feeling useless out of combat. I’m trying to figure out how I can make myself useful in and out of combat. I think my best option is to multiclass to give myself some utility and make up for my crappy stats.

I’m currently level 2 and don’t know what I should go with for subclass or a future multiclass. I think a good plan is going Barb 5/something else X.

Here is what I have to work with.

Dragonborn

Str 18 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 9 Wis 10 Cha 12

I’m thinking Totem or AG for Barb subclass. At level 4 I’ll take ASI to start bringing up my stats and (if it makes sense) facilitate multiclassing. I can take fighter but that doesn’t help me outside combat much. I think bumping Cha and multiclassing into Warlock or Paladin would work out best, but I’m not sure.

Please help make me useful.

[Eldariel]

1) What's the rest of the party like?
2) Are you PHB or Fizban's Dragonborn? Fizban's Dragonborns are basically an update on them and they're actually pretty good unlike the PHB race. If you could switch, put some more points into Dex instead.


Anyways, you should probably make yourself a big frontliner first. Sadly your 12 Dex is doing you no favours; you want a medium armor, which maxes out at 14 Dex. Your low Con is actually fine though, as you'll have plenty of HP and Rage to add onto it. This would speak for Totem Warrior to maximize your tankiness though: getting resistance to all damage is huge. If you wanted more damage instead, Zealot is fine. AG is okay too but I don't think it's at its best here.

You'll probably want Great Weapon Master ASAP (so on level 4) since it just goes so well with your massive Strength, Reckless Attack, etc. Then you can pick up Polearm Master to maximize your output or focus on more defensive options.

Good multiclass options include Battlemaster Fighter, Gloomstalker Ranger and yeah, you can even make Warlock work since many of their good spells are non-Concentration. The more utility the more casting you want obviously. But frankly, I'd just multiclass into Fighter instead of worrying about stats; Action Surge, Battlemaster maneuvers, etc. are all great. Level 6 is great for Zealot while Totem Warrior gets utility there.

[ecarden]

So, a lot depends on your party composition and what your goal is when you utility. Do you want to be better at some of the noncombat rolls? Investigation/Insight/Perception/History? Healing? Magic? Or talking?

One thing that might work is asking your DM about how they feel about Feat stat requirements? Ritual Caster (usually requires Int or wisdom 13) provides a lot of out-of-combat utility, if they'll let you take it. If not, asking to re-sort your stats at level 2 and move the 12 to wisdom or int, then bump it up at 4 with Skill Expert or Shadow Touched, then take Ritual Caster at 8 might help.

If looking for healing, the Healer feat is quite good (I had a lot of fun with a Fighter with Healer and Ritual Caster as the grumpy dad of the party who found stuff the others overlooked, was always telling them to slow down and was always grumbling as he patched them up after their recklessness got them hurt).

But it sort of sounds like you're looking for more talking/Cha stuff? If so, a lot depends on your campaign (and if your DM is comfortable with stuff like Intimidation (Strength). Skill Expert (Persuasion) can give you expertise in it, if you like.

Alternatively, if it's really bugging you a talk with your DM and respeccing entirely as a Hexblade with the 18 in Cha or a Circle of Moon Druid, with the 18 in Wisdom might solve it.

[J-H]

Your stats aren't super terrible.

A few disordered thoughts:

-If you're using the Tasha's ACFs, you get a bonus skill at 3rd level.

-If you're using Fizban's dragonborn, you can work the breath weapon into an attack routine at level 5.

-Your unarmored AC is only 12, or 14 with a shield. Pick up a Breastplate and it goes to 16, or 18 with a shield. This is a pretty substantial bump even at low levels. You don't need to run unarmored as a barb...just stay out of heavy armor and you're good.

-You probably have the highest to hit and damage in the party, especially when raging. Polearm Master is nice, or GWM, or Sentinel. Those are all combat things, and it sounds like combat isn't your problem.

-What you want to do is more out of combat stuff. A few options:
+Skill Expert gives you +1 in a stat, expertise in 1 skill, and proficiency in another. Skilled gets you proficiency in 3 skills. Either of these should boost whatever skills you feel lacking in. Also remember you don't need skills or stats to RP or interact well. The difference is maybe +4 on a d20 roll when needed. Usually what you're doing and how you're doing it is more important than the D20.
+Dragon Fear (feat) gives you a fear effect. May be interesting, if not super powerful.
+Any of the Telepathic or Telekinetic feats could be handy for out of combat use. The X-touched feats aren't as good because you can't cast while raging.

-Subclass thoughts:
+Beast gives you swim, climb, or jump at 6th level. Nice, but it's a long time to wait.
+Totem gives you a few nature-y out of combat spells, and is pretty good anyway (bear)
+Wild Magic lets you do Detect Magic, gives some random stuff, and lets you buff/help your allies.

[RogueJK]

Go +2 DEX at Barbarian 4, to boost your DEX to 14 to maximize Medium Armor and facilitate multiclassing. then dip a level into Rogue after hitting Barbarian 6.

Go Totem Warrior at Barbarian 3, to grab a couple situationally useful ritual spells. Plus you get an additional Barbarian skill proficiency at Level 3 thanks to Primal Knowledge. Take your pick from the animal options at Level 3 (though Bear is the typical choice), but go Tiger at Level 6 for +2 skill proficiencies, including the options of Stealth and Acrobatics, neither of which are normally Barbarian skills.

Then the 1 level dip into Rogue gets you an additional Rogue skill proficiency, along with Expertise in 2 skills. Even with just a +1/+2 modifier from your 12 CHA/14 DEX, you can do a lot out of combat with both Proficiency and Expertise in something like Stealth (from Tiger) and Persuasion (from the Rogue multiclass). Plus Proficiency in Animal Handling (from Primal Knowledge) plus Proficiency/Expertise in Persuasion (from Rogue 1) combos nicely with your Speak With Animals ritual spell.


By Character Level 7 you'll be a Rogue 1/Totem Warrior Barbarian 6, which nets you +4 skill proficiencies and +2 Expertise compared to what you have currently, along with the two animal-related Ritual spells. That should round out your out of combat utility nicely.

I'd shoot for something like:
Barbarian Proficiencies: Animal Handling, Perception, Athletics
Tiger Proficiencies: Stealth, Acrobatics
Rogue Proficiency: Persuasion (or Intimidation)
Rogue Expertise: Stealth, Persuasion (or Intimidation)
+2 Background Skill Proficiencies


From there, decide if you want to go more Rogue, or more Barbarian. (Or both, doing something like Barbarian 8/Rogue X.) I'd lean toward just going straight Rogue after hitting Barbarian 6, since you don't get much worthwhile past Barbarian 6. Picking the Scout subclass at Rogue 3 gets you Proficiency + Expertise in Nature and Survival, for even more out of combat skill usage, or Swashbuckler pairs nicely with Persuasion Expertise. Shoot for +2 CON at your next ASI or two, to boost your HP as well as your Dragonborn breath weapon DC.

In order to make use of Sneak Attack, wield a Rapier and a Shield. You can still make STR-based attacks with a Finesse weapon, and it has the same damage dice as a Longsword/Battleaxe/Warhammer. Reckless Attack is an easy way to facilitate Advantage for Sneak Attacks. Wear a Breastplate to avoid Stealth disadvantage if you go with Stealth Expertise.

[Unoriginal]

Not sure in which way you feel useless, but if you want to increase your CHA for multiclassing, you could get Telepathic or Telekinetic to increase your CHA by 1 and get the benefits of the Feat.

Have to say that 18 STR at lvl 2 is great, though. +6 on checks where Athletics proficiency applies is nothing to sneeze at at this level.

Maybe you should consider Rogue or Bard if you want more skill proficiency/Expertise.



+Beast gives you swim, climb, or jump at 6th level. Nice, but it's a long time to wait.

Well tbf all of OP's proposed multiclassing options are also lvl 6 options.


Go +2 DEX at Barbarian 4, to boost your DEX to 14 to maximize Medium Armor and facilitate multiclassing. then dip a level into Rogue after hitting Barbarian 6.

Go Totem Warrior at Barbarian 3, to grab a couple situationally useful ritual spells. Plus you get an additional Barbarian skill proficiency at Level 3 thanks to Primal Knowledge. Take your pick from the animals at Level 3 (though Bear is the typical choice), but go Tiger at Level 6 for +2 skill proficiencies, like Stealth and Acrobatics... neither of which are normally Barbarian skills.

Then the 1 level dip into Rogue gets you an additional Rogue skill proficiency, along with Expertise in 2 skills. Even with just a +1/+2 modifier from your 12 CHA/14 DEX, you can do a lot out of combat with both Proficiency and Expertise in something like Stealth (from Tiger) and Persuasion (from the Rogue multiclass). Plus Proficiency in Animal Handling (from Primal Knowledge) plus Proficiency/Expertise in Persuasion (from Rogue 1) combos nicely with your Speak With Animals ritual spell.


By Character Level 7 you'll be a Rogue 1/Totem Warrior Barbarian 6, which nets you +4 skill proficiencies and +2 Expertise compared to what you have currently, along with the two animal-related Ritual spells. That should round out your out of combat utility nicely.

From there, decide if you want to go more Rogue, or more Barbarian. (Or both, likely something like Barbarian 8/Rogue X.)

In order to make use of Sneak Attack, wield a Rapier and a Shield. You can still make STR-based attacks with a Finesse weapon, and it has the same damage dice as a Longsword/Battleaxe/Warhammer. Reckless Attack is an easy way to facilitate Advantage for Sneak Attacks.

Good advice. Sword-and-shield (or in this case, rapier-and-shield) does less damage than a big-weapon setup, but Sneak Attack and the increased AC more than make up for it.

Swashbuckler or Scout would be nice subclasses to have, too. Though probably not a priority compared to Barbarian levels.

[Quietus]

With that dex/con, I'd be looking at builds that use a one handed weapon and a shield. That leads me toward Ancestral Guardian - with a longsword and shield, maybe eventually shoot for a flametongue. You won't be the biggest baddest damage dealer, so if that's the role you need to fill, you'll want to look elsewhere. But you'll get that AC up, and leverage the ability to protect your team in combat. I'd consider the Dragon Fear feat, for a 1/SR (classic dragonborn) or a prof/LR (Fizban's, which are better for this) area of effect fear burst, to provide some control in battle. I'd stick with Barbarian to level 6, at minimum, though AG can push much further.

Level 3 : Ancestral Guardian subclass, +1 skill (Tasha's bonus class feature)
Level 4 : Dragon Fear (bump Con to 13)
Level 5 : Extra Attack
Level 6 : Subclass feature, reaction to prevent 2d6 damage to allies every turn while raging
Level 7 : Advantage on initiative
Level 8 : Feat - Skill Expert (+1 skill, +1 expertise of choice, con to 14)
Level 9 : Lame level (+1 rage damage, brutal critical)
Level 10 : +1 skill (Tasha's bonus class feature), subclass feature increases to 3d6 damage prevention

[Catullus64]

Can I ask what your party spends a lot of its time outside of combat doing, such that you feel useless? A high Strength score by itself is useful in the right game, especially at low levels when solutions outside of brute force are fewer. But if you feel like there's a mismatch between your character's supposed strengths and the challenges you're encountering, then you should ask your DM to shake things up a bit. At the very least, suggest that you would be having more fun if combat and non-combat encounters demanded more feats of physical prowess.

[NaughtyTiger]

ha, my barb is jelly of your stats.
14, 14, 12, 10, 11, 11

[Segev]

Do you have a cleric in the party? If so, Zealot Barbarian all the way to 7 is pretty nice. By level 5, the cleric's ability to cast revivify on you with no material components makes you nearly impossible to drop and keep down.

One thing to consider (but not necessarily run with) is that two weapon fighting adds your rage damage to the off-hand attack. Especially if you multiclass fighter, getting the fighting style would let you add your strength to that, too, and the feat would let you dual wield longswords.

Spellcasting clashes hard with barbarian rage. Totem Warrior does get a ritual to commune with animals, though, which is pretty cool. And if you DID multiclass for spellcasting, I would either go Warlock for Devil's Sight or take the Eldritch Adept feat and go for that, then take Eagle Totem at level 7 Barbarian. That's level 9 overall, probably, if you dip 2 Warlock for the invocation. By a strict (but probably unintended interaction) reading of the RAW, this would let you see in the dark, in color, including magical darkness, out to a mile!

[MrStabby]

So "ask your DM". Odd to be saying this not about a druid.

Just say you are worried, given your stats and class, that you won't be useful in the non combat pillars of the game and can you talk through some of your ideas.

The DM almost certainly wants you to have a good time and if they know that having fun roles to play out of combat is important to you they are likely to try and help.

[Segev]

So "ask your DM". Odd to be saying this not about a druid.

Just say you are worried, given your stats and class, that you won't be useful in the non combat pillars of the game and can you talk through some of your ideas.

The DM almost certainly wants you to have a good time and if they know that having fun roles to play out of combat is important to you they are likely to try and help.

You may need to elaborate here. What is the question you are saying he should ask his DM?

[Damon_Tor]

Proficiency with insight and with intimidation together are great. Having expertise in both is even better. You can tell who is lying, and then knowing that, can feel confident in informing them that you will tear their head off of they don't tell you the truth. If they lie again, actually tear their head off. No third chances.

As a barbarian, one level of rogue is actually very beneficial: you have advantage in combat all the time, so "sneak attack" is just a free d6 of damage once per turn every turn. Use a rapier and a shield or even a whip and a shield (with your stats you need a shield anyway TBH). And it gets you the proficiency and expertise you need in insight and intimidation to allow you to correctly determine who needs to have their heads ripped off. Proficiency+Expertise mostly makes up for the low stat issue.

For exploration challenges Path of the totem is actually quite nice. Eyes of the Eagle at 6th level is great: climb up to a high place and look around, freaking awesome for locating stuff out there in the world. At level 10 you get Commune with Nature as a ritual, as many castings as you want per day. That's another great exploration feature right there. With both abilities, you can easily find all the hidden bases and secret lairs out there in the wild. And then once you get there you can use your social skills to tear people's heads off.

[MrStabby]

You may need to elaborate here. What is the question you are saying he should ask his DM?

Ask your DM as in ask your DM FOR something, rather than a question. Ask to be useful out of combat. The DM can trow in more challenges on the side of cliff faces, more heavy things that need moving or objects that need smashing in a ravine.

Make strength checks important and at a level that others can't do.

And Ask for guidance on what else might be useful. If you are considering a multiclass, then a class that adds solutions to problems that won't arise is not much use.

[Damon_Tor]

Another post, because there's another point worth considering:

Instead of making yourself good at doing out-of-combat things, why not engage in activities where combat is a potential consequence of failure?

For example, let's say you need information from Badguy McMobBoss. You know he travels with his goons. If you show up and harass him and you roll low, the chances are good the result is combat. So the two ways to succeed are (a) roll high and avoid combat or (b) roll low and win the combat.

[MrStabby]

Another post, because there's another point worth considering:

Instead of making yourself good at doing out-of-combat things, why not engage in activities where combat is a potential consequence of failure?

For example, let's say you need information from Badguy McMobBoss. You know he travels with his goons. If you show up and harass him and you roll low, the chances are good the result is combat. So the two ways to succeed are (a) roll high and avoid combat or (b) roll low and win the combat.

"Why not"?

Possibly becaus you are screwing over another pary member. You have someone with non-crap charisma, proficicency in some social skils and looking forward to this counting for something in the campaign. Avoiding a fight is a small achievement for them and if you roll up and do this you are crapping all over their game and making the abilities of their character count for nothing. Now it may be that every character in the party has dumped charisma and this isn't an issue, but I do tend to find that rare.

[Damon_Tor]

"Why not"?

Possibly becaus you are screwing over another pary member. You have someone with non-crap charisma, proficicency in some social skils and looking forward to this counting for something in the campaign. Avoiding a fight is a small achievement for them and if you roll up and do this you are crapping all over their game and making the abilities of their character count for nothing. Now it may be that every character in the party has dumped charisma and this isn't an issue, but I do tend to find that rare.

Even better then. Talky McTalkface talky talks while you use the "help" action by standing behind him looking like you're trying to figure out if you need to tear somebody's head off. If he succeeds, then you helped. If not, well, now it's time for bad cop. Who tears off heads.

[MrStabby]

Even better then. Talky McTalkface talky talks while you use the "help" action by standing behind him looking like you're trying to figure out if you need to tear somebody's head off. If he succeeds, then you helped. If not, well, now it's time for bad cop. Who tears off heads.

Certainly better, though on the other side of the coin, standing in the background mennacingly isn't really the spotlight either.

Whilst I kind of feel that I am picking holes in whatever is said, its not intended as any kind of hostility but more a reflection on the fact that this issue is a pretty deep one running through RPGs, where the party has different members with different skill sets for solving a given problem in contradictory ways. To a certain extent one character is going to ge screwed out of doing things their way each time and the challenge for the DM is balancing it between players. The problem is that if the DM does it it robs the players collectively of agency somewhat, if they don't... then whoever gets to rule out the other player's ability first (speaking doesn't preclude violence later, but violence tends to preclude subsequent diplomacy) gets their way.

I have been at plenty of tables where it has never been a problem, but no tables where it has been solved.

[Damon_Tor]

Certainly better, though on the other side of the coin, standing in the background mennacingly isn't really the spotlight either.

Whilst I kind of feel that I am picking holes in whatever is said, its not intended as any kind of hostility but more a reflection on the fact that this issue is a pretty deep one running through RPGs, where the party has different members with different skill sets for solving a given problem in contradictory ways. To a certain extent one character is going to ge screwed out of doing things their way each time and the challenge for the DM is balancing it between players. The problem is that if the DM does it it robs the players collectively of agency somewhat, if they don't... then whoever gets to rule out the other player's ability first (speaking doesn't preclude violence later, but violence tends to preclude subsequent diplomacy) gets their way.

I have been at plenty of tables where it has never been a problem, but no tables where it has been solved.

There are absolutely parts of the adventure where splitting the party is what you should do. When you're looking for clues about your next step, and you've got a handful of leads and a big city to deep around in, that's when you divide and conquer. The bard wants to go for a diplomatic solution and convince the town guards to share what they know? Good. He does that. The barbarian would rather check out the seedy bar that may or may not be a front for the thieves guild and maybe break some faces getting the information he wants? Also good, he does that. The rogue isn't particularly creative and just wants to help out one of the other guys? Fine, either plan can use him. The party can reconvene at the end of the day and compare notes.

[Yakmala]

If there aren’t any Intelligence based classes in the party, talk to your DM about getting your character a headband of intellect. I did this once with a Bear Totem Emerald Dragonborn character that took the archeologist background. It’s endlessly amusing having the party depend on the Barbarian for History and Investigation checks.

[Leon]

What do you feel doing would make you feel more engaged/ not useless out of combat ~ looking for more skills to have (This is a area i feel all PCs lack in this Ed as you can't as easily start learning new skills as past Eds have been), more Noncombat utility.

Even without Proficiency in a skill or High Stats, try those tests if they are an option to take, you may well roll a higher result than the PCs who do have that skill and make the DM have to come up with a reason why YOU know and they don't and that's a win right there.

[Skrum]

Not quite sure why so many people are suggesting rogue - I mean it's not a terrible idea, rogue offers some pretty cool stuff - but sneak attack isn't one of them. It is flat-out incompatible with rage. You cannot use them at the same time, ever. So unless you're a barb isn't planning on raging (and why the heck would you do that?), SA is not going to do anything for you.

That said, rogue is still at least somewhat attractive. Expertise in two skills and cunning action are quite good, especially for a barb who generally don't have anything to do with their bonus once they rage. The bonus action move can be the difference between maintaining or losing your rage.

Because SA doesn't work with rage, I would recommend taking rogue 3 at most. Not a lot of point in continuing to take rogue levels if SA isn't going to be used. Barb 5 rogue 3 sounds pretty fun though. How high is the campaign going to go?

[JNAProductions]

Not quite sure why so many people are suggesting rogue - I mean it's not a terrible idea, rogue offers some pretty cool stuff - but sneak attack isn't one of them. It is flat-out incompatible with rage. You cannot use them at the same time, ever. So unless you're a barb isn't planning on raging (and why the heck would you do that?), SA is not going to do anything for you.

That said, rogue is still at least somewhat attractive. Expertise in two skills and cunning action are quite good, especially for a barb who generally don't have anything to do with their bonus once they rage. The bonus action move can be the difference between maintaining or losing your rage.

Because SA doesn't work with rage, I would recommend taking rogue 3 at most. Not a lot of point in continuing to take rogue levels if SA isn't going to be used. Barb 5 rogue 3 sounds pretty fun though. How high is the campaign going to go?

It works fine with Rage, and Reckless Attack.

You need to use a Finesse or Ranged weapon-you don’t actually need to use Dex to attack with it.

[Skrum]

It works fine with Rage, and Reckless Attack.

You need to use a Finesse or Ranged weapon-you don’t actually need to use Dex to attack with it.

Oooo ok that's what's up. Yah rogue is actually a really strong barb multiclass. I like it. Can't GWM, but that's not the only way to barb

[Segev]

It works fine with Rage, and Reckless Attack.

You need to use a Finesse or Ranged weapon-you don’t actually need to use Dex to attack with it.


Oooo ok that's what's up. Yah rogue is actually a really strong barb multiclass. I like it. Can't GWM, but that's not the only way to barb

And it's worth noting that if you dual wield as a rogue/barbarian while raging, you get to add your rage damage bonus to the off-hand attack; only your stat bonus is kept from your damage code. So a rapier/short sword combo works pretty well for this. Or dual short swords. You DO want to attack with strength, not dex, though, so you can add your rage modifier.

[follacchioso]

If your group has a lot of melee PCs, Totem Warrior's Wolf option gives advantage to all melee attacks to enemies within 5' of you. That is a good feature that will make you feel much useful to the group, even if you are not the hardest hitter.