Why Does Levitate Use Constitution?

[Azara5]

I was building an Air Genasi recently, and I noticed that Levitate, which it gets as a racial spell, relies on a Constitution save, instead of Strength. This seems weird to me, as Strength seems to better represent someone's ability to hold onto something and not get lifted. Could this have been for balance reasons?

[Sigreid]

It's because it's keyed off of your race. Every race with spells or spell like abilities has a key attribute that those abilities are based off of.

[Boci]

Do you mean the air gensai's save DC for levitate is based off constitution, or the spell offers a constitution save to resist it? You talk about how strength better represents the ability to resist being pulled up, which makes it sound to me like you mean the spell's saving throw, independent of the air gensai.

[Sigreid]

Also, if it were being cast as a wizard spell, the save would be based of Int. Still not strength though strength might be the resisting stat.

[OldTrees1]

Air Genasi (old version) Levitate is Constitution* based but does not change the save.


Mingle with the Wind. You can cast the Levitate spell once with this trait, requiring no material components, and you regain the ability to cast it this way when you finish a long rest. Constitution is your spellcasting ability for this spell.

Levitate itself has the Constitution save (regardless of source)

An unwilling creature that succeeds on a Constitution saving throw is unaffected.

It is a constitution save for balance reasons. It is a save or lose spell and those default to Con/Dex/Wis saves. Maybe the flavor editor missed it when polishing the PHB?

Your GM might decide that Levitate should be a Str save instead.

*New MotM version is Int/Wis/Cha based.

[Azara5]

It's because it's keyed off of your race. Every race with spells or spell like abilities has a key attribute that those abilities are based off of.


Do you mean the air gensai's save DC for levitate is based off constitution, or the spell offers a constitution save to resist it? You talk about how strength better represents the ability to resist being pulled up, which makes it sound to me like you mean the spell's saving throw, independent of the air gensai.


Also, if it were being cast as a wizard spell, the save would be based of Int. Still not strength though strength might be the resisting stat.

Firstly, I'm using the MotM Air Genasi, which scales off of either Int, Wis, or Cha. Secondly, I was referring to the saving throw that the spell causes unwilling creatures to make. This is always a Constitution save, regardless of the ability score used when casting the spell.

[Boci]

Firstly, I'm using the MotM Air Genasi, which scales off of either Int, Wis, or Cha. Secondly, I was referring to the saving throw that the spell causes unwilling creatures to make. This is always a Constitution save, regardless of the ability score used when casting the spell.

Then as OldTrees1 says its because the effects removes too many creatures from combat to be a strength save, which is reserved for spells and effects that hinder a creature's ability to act, but don't negate it.

[Segev]

I think levitate removes fewer creatures' ability to act than does Entangle. :smallconfused:

[Boci]

I think levitate removes fewer creatures' ability to act than does Entangle. :smallconfused:

Entangle allows a strength checks each turn to break free. If you fail your initial save against levitate, and have no ability to fly, teleport or use range attacks, not an insignificant portion of monsters there, they're just out of the fight with no further chance of recover from their own abilities.

[Telok]

If you fail your initial save against levitate, and have no ability to fly, teleport or use range attacks, not an insignificant portion of monsters there, they're just out of the fight with no further chance of recover from their own abilities.

Isn't that true of such opponents whether you levitate them or levitate yourself? There's no change between levitating the t-rex 15 feet out or reach and levitating yourself 15 feet out of it... reach.

Ed. Sorry, small child interruption.

[Luccan]

Isn't that true of such opponents whether you levitate them or levitate yourself? There's no change between levitating the t-rex 15 feet out or reach and levitating yourself 15 feet out of it'@ reacbrgrt

Except if you're playing with a more normal party size of 3-5 then that's not ending the fight, that's dodging the T-Rex so it goes after someone else

[Sigreid]

Thinking about it, strength would only make sense if the target were holding on to something.

[Witty Username]

Generally speaking, magical abilities key off of Con, Int, Wis or Cha.
Con for racial abilities, as it is the physical health of the creature.
Int for effects that rely on study, practice and application of principles.
Wis for divine connections with higher powers like gods or forces of nature
and Cha for either expressions of creativity or the natural aptitudes of the caster apart from race directly.

Air Genasi uses Constitution because of it being a natural ability of theirs, and therefore an expression of powers affected by their health rather than mental aptitudes. Also, Con mechanically speaking means most characters will get some value out of it, as everyone likes constitution.

I would personally have used Charisma for natural aptitude abilities as that would have a tie in to the functions of the sorcerer, but that is just me.

[Telok]

Except if you're playing with a more normal party size of 3-5 then that's not ending the fight, that's dodging the T-Rex so it goes after someone else

Sounds like a one spell win to me.

Seriously though, at a certain point of gameplay (not solely based on pc level or player skill but a sliding combo effect thereof) the "dumb melee brute" stops being an actual combat threat unless the players are either intentionally playing along or the DM is seriously crap railroading. Anything solvable with an uncommon magic item and a really long spear, or a 2nd level spell and a cantrip, is a tier one challenge no matter how many hit points it has or the amount of damage its claws & bite do.

[OldTrees1]

Sounds like a one spell win to me.

I am confused. How is it a one-spell win to cast levitate on 1 of the N party members?

Edit: Or was that a joke about letting the rest of the party be attacked after the one-spell?

T Rex ambushes a Wizard and Fighter in their sleep. The Wizard levitates away. The Fighters considers it a one-spell win, then goes back to sleep. The T Rex is puzzled, but finishes their meal anyways.

Seriously though, casting Levitate on the T Rex (assuming it were light enough for the hypothetical) and hovering it to be poked to death is a one-spell win in a way that letting the fighter be eaten is not.

[Witty Username]

Ah, I misunderstood, (I actually misremembered I thought it was a strength save), that would because WOTC forgets they have saves other than Dex, Con and Wis. I would have made it Str or Dex if I was designing it, it might be described as a paralyzing effect or something to fit with Con.

[Dimers]

I'd call it a Charisma save, myself. That's where I lump curse effects, things that don't assault the body or psyche.

Another way to look at it is, what classes ought to resist levitation the best? There's nothing about tough warriors or learned wizards that should make them resistant to that effect. If the change isn't instantaneous, a quick-reacting rogue or monk might feel the change coming on and slip the force-bonds or find something to hook a limb onto, so maybe Dexterity ... but I subconsciously believe that there's nothing to react to until it's too late. The only protections against the effect would be your connection to otherworldly forces (like clerics, paladins, warlocks) or your ability to impose your will directly on reality without mediation (like sorcerers). Charisma is the otherlap for those classes.

[SpanielBear]

I always assumed Con was the save because it sort-of ties in with a creatures expected mass. Heavier creature- better Con- harder to lift.

[OvisCaedo]

Meanwhile, reverse gravity gives a Dex save to try to grab something to not float up. Though reverse gravity probably hurls people much faster than levitation does!

The con save on levitation doesn't really make sense to me either. There could be some thematic connection to mass, but the spell also has a weight limit, and small creatures can still have plenty of con. The 500 pound weight limit is also kind of amusing since I'm pretty sure most creatures don't really have any kind of established weight. Almost anything large is probably way above it?

[Boci]

Almost anything large is probably way above it?

The average horse weighs 600lbs, with Arabian purebreed being 50% more. Ogres in PF where every monster was given a weighed 650, so likely yes.

[KorvinStarmast]

It's because it's keyed off of your race. Every race with spells or spell like abilities has a key attribute that those abilities are based off of. Dragonborn's breath weapon uses Constitution for setting the save DC.

For the OP: sometimes, overthinking overlooks the the simple answer of the devs felt like it. It makes no serious impact on play.

[JackPhoenix]

Isn't that true of such opponents whether you levitate them or levitate yourself? There's no change between levitating the t-rex 15 feet out or reach and levitating yourself 15 feet out of it... reach.

Ed. Sorry, small child interruption.

There's a serious difference in that the T-rex probably doesn't weight less than 500 lb and thus can't be levitated at all.

[Chronos]

The OP is not asking about the spellcasting ability modifier. He's asking about the kind of save. The fact that it came up on a genasi is irrelevant except in so far as that's the character he happens to have.

Since so many people were having difficulty with that.

[KorvinStarmast]

There's a serious difference in that the T-rex probably doesn't weight less than 500 lb and thus can't be levitated at all. +1

The OP is not asking about the spellcasting ability modifier. He's asking about the kind of save. That does not change this part of my answer:
For the OP: sometimes, overthinking overlooks the the simple answer of the devs felt like it. It makes no serious impact on play.

[Segev]

Meanwhile, reverse gravity gives a Dex save to try to grab something to not float up. Though reverse gravity probably hurls people much faster than levitation does!

Not that great of a comparitor, actually: the characters are saving (with Dexterity) to avoid falling/taking damage. The gravity is reversed whether they save or not. With levitate, the spell actually fails if they make their (Constitution) saving throw. I personally agree that Strength makes more sense than Constitution. Also, I think that it would be a nerf to the spell to make it so: the things most likely to lose the fight if they fail the save vs. levitate are the things most likely to have a high Strength saving throw, not things most likely to have a high Constitution saving throw.

[Telok]

I am confused. How is it a one-spell win to cast levitate on 1 of the N party members?

Edit: Or was that a joke about letting the rest of the party be attacked after the one-spell?

T Rex ambushes a Wizard and Fighter in their sleep. The Wizard levitates away. The Fighters considers it a one-spell win, then goes back to sleep. The T Rex is puzzled, but finishes their meal anyways.

Seriously though, casting Levitate on the T Rex (assuming it were light enough for the hypothetical) and hovering it to be poked to death is a one-spell win in a way that letting the fighter be eaten is not.

Pretty much the last one. My table works to pick up flight pretty early, generally everyone has access by level 8. Of course we have people who have actually slogged through jungles, swamps, deserts, and been attacked by large predators. We consider adventurers who don't want flight to be... not even combat as sport, combat as game show (and not a high quality one). I don't think anyone bothered to even look at the actual levitate this edition since we typically skip straight to flying.

Of course my go to system these days has a size stat, so the telekinetic effects run on size or strength saves and we just don't have to deal with artificial weight limits on each specific effect.

[Chronos]

Eh, the monsters that have good Str scores (and may even have proficiency in Str saves) are pretty much the same monsters as the ones that have good Con scores (and may even have proficiency in Con saves). Mechanically, I'm not sure that it makes much difference to swap between a Con save and a Str save.

I think that the fact that a save negates the spell completely is what makes the difference. With a hypothetical variant that used a Str save, a save would mean that you're able to muscularly pull back against the spell, and so you're not lifted... this time. But the caster could still try again next round, until the spell ends, like with Telekinesis. With a Con save, though, you're resisting the magic's ability to take hold of your body at all. And a Wis or Cha save wouldn't make sense, because those imply that the spell is targeting the creature's mind or soul, but it also works on objects.

Telok, having everyone flying is certainly handy, but how do you even manage that? If you're using the Fly spell, then you need one caster to spend a third-level slot for every party member, or a fourth-level for every two party members; the duration is short enough that you're likely to need to re-cast it every combat; and you've got at least half the party committing their concentration to it. That's a heck of a lot of opportunity cost, and you could use those resources to make an even bigger difference to the fight. If you're using items, then how do you ensure you get those items? And if even one PC can't fly, the value of the tactic goes way down, because that just means that all of the enemy are going to dogpile that one ground-pounder.

[RSP]

And if even one PC can't fly, the value of the tactic goes way down, because that just means that all of the enemy are going to dogpile that one ground-pounder.

To be fair, that’s a great way to dictate a Tank, so not a horrible strategy.

[KorvinStarmast]

Eh, the monsters that have good Str scores (and may even have proficiency in Str saves) are pretty much the same monsters as the ones that have good Con scores (and may even have proficiency in Con saves). Mechanically, I'm not sure that it makes much difference to swap between a Con save and a Str save. +1

And a Wis or Cha save wouldn't make sense, because those imply that the spell is targeting the creature's mind or soul, but it also works on objects. I'm on board with this, given how levitate works.

Telok, having everyone flying is certainly handy, but how do you even manage that? FWIW, my level 10 Warlock casts spell at 5th level as a default, so I can get three up and flying any time I need to. :smallbiggrin: (And the gnome has a broom of flying, so that's four).

[Boci]

FWIW, my level 10 Warlock casts spell at 5th level as a default, so I can get three up and flying any time I need to. :smallbiggrin: (And the gnome has a broom of flying, so that's four).

Yeah but that's a precious warlock spell slot and concentration. The party is one failed con save away from losing 75% of its flight capacity. Plus the maximum duration is just 10 minutes. Telok made it sound like the whole group has flight speed measured in the hours minimum, if not 24/7.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yeah but that's a precious warlock spell slot and concentration. That is correct. We use fly for various situations, not as an always on feature. I've got warcaster and resilient CON. :smallsmile: Our DM is also pretty decent about a short rest, sometimes two, each adventure day.

I just remembered that one of our party has a ring of elemental command, so that's 5 who can fly if need be.
This group has been on hold for a bit since my brother, DM, has been battling the RL monster. We expect to get back to playing (and I get to stop DMing for a while) near the end of July.

[Segev]

I mean, the broom of flying is amazingly cheap for a magic item that does what it does in 5e....

[Telok]

Telok, having everyone flying is certainly handy, but how do you even manage that? If you're using the Fly spell, then you need one caster to spend a third-level slot for every party member, or a fourth-level for every two party members; the duration is short enough that you're likely to need to re-cast it every combat; and you've got at least half the party committing their concentration to it. That's a heck of a lot of opportunity cost, and you could use those resources to make an even bigger difference to the fight. If you're using items, then how do you ensure you get those items? And if even one PC can't fly, the value of the tactic goes way down, because that just means that all of the enemy are going to dogpile that one ground-pounder.

Magic items. By level 8 everyone could fly all combats if we wanted, by level10 we had brooms of flying for everyone, a spare pair of winged boots for temp allied npcs, and had passed on a bat cloak & something else. Before that we supplimented items with trained drake-like things, polymorph, and tactical spells.

Just used the rules. Got a recipie for the brooms & looted one, so ended up making like 3. Bought the rest with the rules from one of the other books. Probably helped that without other stuff to spend money on and the steady drip of rng generated vendor trash magic items, we could throw money at it. Also helping: the sorcerer picked up teleport, several major cities have well known tp circles, some talking the clerics into casting divination spells, and the trash magic item trades.

Its not like we fly every combat & all the time, just when it suits the situation and there's room. Like I said, we have people who rl have marched through jungles, swamps, & deserts. We live where large predators occasionally eat incautious hikers. D&d has carnivourous plants, purple worms, and t-rexes wandering around ground level. If we don't want to hike a jungle in rl with guns & gps why the **** would a d&d adventurer want to hike a d&d shadowfel jungle wearing plate & using a no map when they could be flying?

[KorvinStarmast]

I mean, the broom of flying is amazingly cheap for a magic item that does what it does in 5e.... Yes. I think that as an uncommon item, it's a bit overpowered, though as a rare it fits well enough. (Or if it was limited to x hours per day, recharge at dawn...).

[Thunderous Mojo]

Yes. I think that as an uncommon item, it's a bit overpowered, though as a rare it fits well enough. (Or if it was limited to x hours per day, recharge at dawn...).

A Broom of Flying, doesn’t even require attunement.
Meanwhile, Winged Boots have flight time restrictions, and requires attunement.

Both items are Uncommon.

[Telok]

A Broom of Flying, doesn’t even require attunement.
Meanwhile, Winged Boots have flight time restrictions, and requires attunement.

Both items are Uncommon.

Illusionist bracers anyone?

I mean, you expect wotc to have any metrics on what power level to rarity a magic item should be? "Just make a guess" is what they do if they're sober and the editor is going to look at it before publication.

[PhoenixPhyre]

A Broom of Flying, doesn’t even require attunement.
Meanwhile, Winged Boots have flight time restrictions, and requires attunement.

Both items are Uncommon.

Fairly simple change to adjust that--

Broom of Flying requires both hands actively involved to use and if you take damage while flying, you fall off. So it's great for overland quiet flight, but no good in combat. While the boots are good in combat but not so good for other things.


Illusionist bracers anyone?

I mean, you expect wotc to have any metrics on what power level to rarity a magic item should be? "Just make a guess" is what they do if they're sober and the editor is going to look at it before publication.

Although, I don't disagree with this point at all either.

[Thunderous Mojo]

One could always learn from decades of Star Trek series and install a safety line to the broom. Seatbelts, save lives.

A Broom of Flying has a better ‘Auto-Pilot’ feature than most automobiles.🃏

Illusionist Bracers is a misnomer. The item should have been called Warlock Eldritch Blast Archer Mech Armbangles. W.E.B.A.M-You Bracers!

[Chronos]

Illusionist Bracers is a misnomer.
Yeah, they don't even work with Minor Illusion.

And yes, if you happen to find a formula for making Brooms of Flying, that's great, and in that case you'd obviously make one for every party member (if you can find enough of whatever the exotic materials are, of course). But the formula for a magic item isn't something you can count on finding.

[Telok]

[QUOTE=Chronos;25511774]happen to find a formula for making Brooms of Flying, that's great]

Happen to find? Its written instructions worth money to someone. You can find people making copies of documents for sale for over 2500 years rl. Just talk to people and track down someone with a copy. Thats what uncommon means, you don't see them every week, not that they're the lost knowledge of an ancient civilization.

[Danielqueue1]

Seriously though, at a certain point of gameplay ... the "dumb melee brute" stops being an actual combat threat unless the players are either intentionally playing along or the DM is seriously crap railroading. ...


Magic items. By level 8 everyone could fly all combats if we wanted, by level10 we had brooms of flying for everyone, a spare pair of winged boots for temp allied npcs, and had passed on a bat cloak & something else. ...


This just in, unless your DM is running a "monty hall" campaign with magic item shops in every town, "vendor trash" magic items and riches from every fight, and recipes easily accessible for anyone with cash then your DM is "seriously crap railroading."

I mean sure if your DM uses all the associated crafting rules from multiple sources, chooses to base pricing entirely on the listed rarity with no concern for theme or power, hands out cash like water, gives the players nothing more valuable to spend currency on, gives you plenty of downtime to craft them with, and easy markets where exactly what you want is available where and when you want it, then sure have fun with it.

As for the original post, I think none of tge other saves particularly fit without some flavor adjustments (dodge being targeted for dex) and I kinda like the image of the "Immovable object" tanky guy no-selling being picked up by magic without pushing, shoving, dodging, etc.

[JackPhoenix]

Happen to find? Its written instructions worth money to someone. You can find people making copies of documents for sale for over 2500 years rl. Just talk to people and track down someone with a copy. Thats what uncommon means, you don't see them every week, not that they're the lost knowledge of an ancient civilization.

The formula is a rare item in itself, not something you can simply copy... and why would someone share trade secrets with a competitor? You can also find people keeping knowledge secret for even longer.

[Chronos]

Yeah, magic item formulas are one step rarer than the item they make. And even with the formula, you need the ingredients, which are supposed to include at least one thing you'd probably need to actively go on a quest to find.

[Telok]

Yeah, magic item formulas are one step rarer than the item they make. And even with the formula, you need the ingredients, which are supposed to include at least one thing you'd probably need to actively go on a quest to find.

Ah, my bad on the recipie rarity then. We mostly based it off Medieval illuminated manuscript trade though, with about two hours internet research by the DM. And, honestly, there were a bunch of magic trees so we took lots & sold the extra wood.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Ah, my bad on the recipie rarity then. We mostly based it off Medieval illuminated manuscript trade though, with about two hours internet research by the DM. And, honestly, there were a bunch of magic trees so we took lots & sold the extra wood.

That's not technically how it's supposed to work by default[1]. Each individual item should (by default) require a separate quest. Mass manufacture of magic items isn't contemplated as really possible in the default rules (including Xanathar's here as default since the DMG rules are even more prohibitive). And for good reason as you found out--handing magic items out like candy radically changes the character of the game and causes a lot of core assumptions about relative strengths of things to go wonky and have to be adjusted for on the fly.

[1] but, as always, each table can decide for themselves.

[KorvinStarmast]

... core assumptions about relative strengths of things to go wonky and have to be adjusted for on the fly. Nice pun, given what we are talking about.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Nice pun, given what we are talking about.

And that one wasn't even (consciously) intended. :smallredface:

[Segev]

That's not technically how it's supposed to work by default[1]. Each individual item should (by default) require a separate quest. Mass manufacture of magic items isn't contemplated as really possible in the default rules (including Xanathar's here as default since the DMG rules are even more prohibitive). And for good reason as you found out--handing magic items out like candy radically changes the character of the game and causes a lot of core assumptions about relative strengths of things to go wonky and have to be adjusted for on the fly.

[1] but, as always, each table can decide for themselves.

One thing I find makes this core paradigm fail is that a lot of games - especially ones run using modules - don't have time or narrative space for a side quest to find the recipes and materials to make a magic item, nor to discover a specific magic item's existence and go questing for that. It's a problem where the assumptions about the kind of game you're playing to get magic items and the kind of game you're playing to actually play the game are so disparate that it's often impossible to do both. I tend to like more sandboxy games precisely because the quests tend to be player-driven when players want them to be, but those are a LOT more work for the DM, and basically can't use modules as anything but very loose piecemeal sources of insert material.

[PhoenixPhyre]

One thing I find makes this core paradigm fail is that a lot of games - especially ones run using modules - don't have time or narrative space for a side quest to find the recipes and materials to make a magic item, nor to discover a specific magic item's existence and go questing for that. It's a problem where the assumptions about the kind of game you're playing to get magic items and the kind of game you're playing to actually play the game are so disparate that it's often impossible to do both. I tend to like more sandboxy games precisely because the quests tend to be player-driven when players want them to be, but those are a LOT more work for the DM, and basically can't use modules as anything but very loose piecemeal sources of insert material.

Right. But those modules? Also start from the baseline of "magic items are found, not made." So you only get magic items as rewards or loot, the crafting rules are disabled. And you don't get to pick. That's the system default, really. The whole "I can pick and choose what items I want out of a catalog and the DM will make a way to get them for me" is the unusual style here.

The Xanathar's rules are optional, for use when and how the DM decides. They're not really player-facing/player-entitlement. And are expected to take heavy, constant DM involvement. The downtime "rules" (of which crafting is one) are more like loose guidelines for DMs to create their own systems around (or handle things ad hoc). They're not designed for players to run autonomously. Access to magic items is designed to be gated by the DM's conscious decision. And choosing to go loosey-goosey on it has consequences that need to be adapted to.

[Telok]

That's not technically how it's supposed to work by default[1]. Each individual item should (by default) require a separate quest. Mass manufacture of magic items isn't contemplated as really possible in the default rules (including Xanathar's here as default since the DMG rules are even more prohibitive). And for good reason as you found out--handing magic items out like candy radically changes the character of the game and causes a lot of core assumptions about relative strengths of things to go wonky and have to be adjusted for on the fly.

[1] but, as always, each table can decide for themselves.

That seems like a rather narrative driven way to try to stop people from doing common d&d type stuff.

You know, you guys keep making weird assumptions and saying we're having bad-wrong-fun a lot by ignoring half my original posts. The brooms were the END point of the whole thing at like level 11 or such. We were using multiple flight methods before that. The party had full flying access from somewhere around level 7 on for any given couple encounters a day, and always if we wanted it by the start of level 9.

The game doesn't break, or warp, or go down in flames. The group simply had a minor side goal and succeeded because the DM didn't fiat ban our choices of activity. I, personally, don't consider the PC being able to ignore basic dumb animal fights to be any sort of a problem. The entire point of this is that a group that wants to can get everyone flying in tier 2, barring the DM having a hissy fit, and the game is fine.

[PhoenixPhyre]

That seems like a rather narrative driven way to try to stop people from doing common d&d type stuff.

You know, you guys keep making weird assumptions and saying we're having bad-wrong-fun a lot by ignoring half my original posts. The brooms were the END point of the whole thing at like level 11 or such. We were using multiple flight methods before that. The party had full flying access from somewhere around level 7 on for any given couple encounters a day, and always if we wanted it by the start of level 9.

The game doesn't break, or warp, or go down in flames. The group simply had a minor side goal and succeeded because the DM didn't fiat ban our choices of activity. I, personally, don't consider the PC being able to ignore basic dumb animal fights to be any sort of a problem. The entire point of this is that a group that wants to can get everyone flying in tier 2, barring the DM having a hissy fit, and the game is fine.

...the DM actively and purposefully facilitating it is a bit more than "barring the DM having a hissy fit". And that's what it takes to do that. You need active DM buy in at every step of the way for every magic item ever in this edition. This is not 3e.

And I never said you were having bad-wrong-fun--rather explicitly the opposite. Merely that it doesn't fit the default assumptions the game has, and the DM needs to adapt to the changes it induces. Not that it breaks the game, but it does create substantial distortions from what the system and guidance assume. Because it's not the expected result. You're taking "that's not the normal way things go" as a personal attack. When it's not. It's just a statement that your table departs from the norms in this thing. Which is fine--my tables depart from the norm in other ways. But it's a fact that you shouldn't assume that any party that doesn't have everyone flying either
a) doesn't want to
b) or has a "DM having a hissy fit" (with all the negative, railroading things that entails).
Because that's a horrible, horrible assumption with no grounding in anything system related.

[Telok]

...the DM actively and purposefully facilitating it is a bit more than "barring the DM having a hissy fit". And that's what it takes to do that. You need active DM buy in at every step of the way for every magic item ever in this edition. This is not 3e.

This, I can engage with. It doesn't have the tone of accusing people of using screwed up homebrew to break a game and ignoring the point of a post.

I disagree that DMs have any more control over magic items in 5e than they did in D&D, AD&D, 2e, 3e, or 4e. The DM has exactly the same amount of say; absolute. The difference is that in 3e & 4e players felt more entitled through more thorough rules support and the game math explicitly being built with +number magic items in mind.

My whole point has been that the game rules allow for an entire party to be tactically flying in tier 2. And, as I have mentioned, out party did so through various means that also happened to include some magic items. The fuss about out game acheiving strategic 24/7 flying around the start of tier 3 (that still wasn't all magic items) is just a pointless derail.