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MeklorIlavator
2007-11-27, 04:41 PM
I'm Dming the published campaign Expedition to the Demon Web Pits, but one of my players has already read through it(long story, but he was DMing it, but that group fell through), so I wanted to changed some of the encounters around. Looking though my options, I realized that I've never really have made a serious thrower. Now, I realize that this isn't then most powerful mundane way to do things, but I would like your(the boards) help in creating the best thrower that I can.

Here's the statistics:
The character created must be a primary thrower build, and preferably completely mundane, though caster levels are not forbidden.

The character should be from levels 8-13, with the stats generated with a 36 point buy, or using the following:10,12,14,14,15,16.

The character should have all special gear listed(I can figure out the actual bonuses to the weapons, but if it needs a helm of telepathy, please mention it), but don't give them a full list.

You only need to fill out the skills and feats that the character actually needs. If you have extra skill points/feats, just mention the number of unused ones.

Try to keep it within the following sources(my friends have the others): Core, Psionics, PHB2, DMG@, Comp Arcane, Mage, Adventurer, and Warrior. All 3.5 races are acceptable.

If they use any special tactics besides abilities mentioned in the class spaces, please mention this.

Oh, and I will likely use this as a core build for my nest character, as I am really itching to play a thrower, but I don't have the guidelines for it, so I decided to kill two birds with one stone, and adapt this character when that time came around.

Chaos Evoker
2007-11-27, 04:43 PM
I can't remember where it is (maybe Comp. Warrior) or how good it is but you could check out the Master Thrower Prestige Class.

Douglas
2007-11-27, 05:12 PM
5 levels of Master Thrower from Complete Warrior. At level 5 pick the special ability (weak spot, I think) that lets you make thrown weapon attacks as ranged touch attacks. You lose your strength bonus to damage when using this ability, unfortunately, but that can be compensated for. Take the Power Throw feat (Complete Adventurer, requires Brutal Throw from the same book, along with Power Attack). You can now power attack with thrown weapons, dump your entire BAB into it, and still hit because you only need to beat touch AC. Another Master Thrower trick lets you throw two small thrown weapons per attack, and Power Throw bonus damage applies to both.

There are more tricks you can do if Tome of Battle is allowed, primarily with up to 4 levels of Bloodstorm Blade and the Shadow Blade feat, but aside from that not being on your allowed sources I'm not sure offhand how easy it would be to pack that into your specified level range on top of Master Thrower.

dyslexicfaser
2007-11-27, 10:57 PM
Master Thrower is probably your best bet, as stated above.

That said, there's also the Hulking Hurler PrC for the large-and-up sized guys; it's hardly optimized, but its only 3 levels and a hurler can throw ANYTHING at his enemies. People? Trees? Houses? Whatever, hurl away. It's great fun.

Also, if you're not adverse to a little homebrew, Rich created the Rock Skipping Champion PrC, which is tricky to use in a tabletop setting since it requires so many dice, but a high levelled rock skip champ can throw 2-4 rocks, each of which can ricochet multiple times for lots of small-damage hits. Use a sling with it, and you can get enchanted throwing stones.

TimeWizard
2007-11-27, 11:22 PM
After the Hulking Hurler comes War Hulk, I'd say go Rouge for a fine cheek color and Rogue for Master Thrower so you can sneak attack, if you can afford it there is a weapon enhancement called Splitting, +3 enhancement cost, that causes any projectile to split into two projectiles in flight (you make seperate attack roles for each). Or you could try Returning (three guesses what that does).

Hmmm... Rogue/MT, sneak attack, weak spot, splitting, master of poisons, mosquito bite.... I like the sound of that.

the_tick_rules
2007-11-28, 12:53 AM
wow, everyone beat me to it.

Yeril
2007-11-28, 04:44 AM
The best thrown weapon I can think of is an Exotic weapon named "The Orc Shotput."

While halflings sling stones into batle, orcs lob rocks. big metal rocks.

big metal rocks that do 2d6+1.5str and crit on 19-20 X3. :smallredface:

And its 2 handed so 1:2 on the Power attack dealio. :smallbiggrin:

Its in the arms and equiptment guide I beleive.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-11-28, 06:02 AM
big metal rocks that do 2d6+1.5str and crit on 19-20 X3. :smallredface:

You only apply 1.5 x STR bonus to melee attacks.


And its 2 handed so 1:2 on the Power attack dealio. :smallbiggrin:


Power Attack cannot be used with thrown weapons you need Power Throw for that, but you only get 1:1.

Quietus
2007-11-28, 06:42 AM
After the Hulking Hurler comes War Hulk, I'd say go Rouge for a fine cheek color and Rogue for Master Thrower so you can sneak attack, if you can afford it there is a weapon enhancement called Splitting, +3 enhancement cost, that causes any projectile to split into two projectiles in flight (you make seperate attack roles for each). Or you could try Returning (three guesses what that does).

Hmmm... Rogue/MT, sneak attack, weak spot, splitting, master of poisons, mosquito bite.... I like the sound of that.

Ahahahha, I see what you did there - well played, good sir!


Anyhow, one concept I've tossed around a bit was the idea of a ranger dual-weilding throwing axes. Pick up the Quick Draw and Power Throw feats, so you can throw as a full attack and use your strength in your to-hit rather than your dex, grab point blank and far shot, and go to town.

Yami
2007-11-28, 06:47 AM
Let's see... If you don't want to go cheesy, then the best thrown weapons master I've seen was a Master thrower. I beleive it was at level 10 the character could launch 8 daggers a round at full power attack as ranged touch attacks.

Yeah, he was pretty awesome, but had to drag about a donkey covered with daggers so as not to overwiegh himself (Too many weapons to make returning daggers viable.)

This was one of my Player's characters, and I've not got the sheet, so I can't tell you what feats to take any better than those that've already spoken.

If'n you do want to go cheesy, then take an ogre and give it hulking hurling (If it's in the proper books). Then just boost your Str as much as you can. The cheese appear since str bonus to damage is a linear progression, but Damage based on weight is exponential. Im personallym would counsel not doing this.

Roderick_BR
2007-11-28, 07:29 AM
Cheap trick: Get Quick Draw from core, and the Hurling Charge from Miniatures Handbook, that allows you to make one throw attack as part of a charge. Then get the Leap Attack/Troop Shocker combo, so you can deal huge damage from a distance, without less fear of counter attacks.

Armads
2007-11-28, 08:06 AM
Barbarian with Power Throw and 1 Master Thrower Level. Take Throw Anything and Improved Critical (falchion), and hurl 15-20/x3 crit falchions around.

dyslexicfaser
2007-11-28, 01:23 PM
Actually, I just today got a look at ToB's Bloodstorm Blade, and it is fantastic. He's almost as good in melee as ranged combat, his throwing wepons act as melee (you can use power attack) and by the 4th level of the PrC, you're able to make a full attack using just 1-2 weapons, which return to your hand as a free action after every throw. Plus a bunch of other goodies.

Thinker
2007-11-28, 01:44 PM
Anyhow, one concept I've tossed around a bit was the idea of a ranger dual-weilding throwing axes. Pick up the Quick Draw and Power Throw feats, so you can throw as a full attack and use your strength in your to-hit rather than your dex, grab point blank and far shot, and go to town.

Why burn a feat on Quick Draw? If you have one skill point in Sleight of Hand you can effectively do the same:


SLEIGHT OF HAND (DEX; TRAINED ONLY; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
Check:...The observer’s success doesn’t prevent you from performing the action, just from doing it unnoticed....Drawing a hidden weapon is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity...
Action: ...However, you may perform a Sleight of Hand check as a free action by taking a –20 penalty on the check...

The check is made to avoid being noticed, not to perform the action, so even if you roll a -15 or something you still succeed on drawing the weapon.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-11-28, 01:53 PM
Why burn a feat on Quick Draw? If you have one skill point in Sleight of Hand you can effectively do the same:

The check is made to avoid being noticed, not to perform the action, so even if you roll a -15 or something you still succeed on drawing the weapon.

No, you cannot.

Drawing a hidden weapon is a standard action and it requires no sleight of hand check.

You can only take the -20 penalty to perform an action that requires a SoH check normally.

Drawing an unhidden weapon is a move action. (It can be done as a free action if you have Quick Draw or as part of movement if your BAB is at least +1)

cupkeyk
2007-11-28, 02:19 PM
Thrown falchion with improved critical still only have 20/x2


Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit.

Throw anything only removes the penalty.

You don't add double your strength with two handed thrown weapons, the other hand is for balance. That rule is limited to melee:


Thrown Weapons: Daggers, clubs, shortspears, spears, darts, javelins, throwing axes, light hammers, tridents, shuriken, and nets are thrown weapons. The wielder applies his or her Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons (except for splash weapons)....

...Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon.

So throw anything actually sucks.

Yami
2007-11-28, 02:38 PM
Not quite. Throw anything works really well with a high Strength character, if you are willing to accept cheese.

Stam
2007-11-28, 02:42 PM
Shuriken.

One level of Monk for proficiency and flurry ability.

Houserule a glove-slot item that enhances thrown weapons as a bow, but for one hand only. Enchant it to +1, then add the Energy Assault weapon crystal.

Grab Doubletoss. Grab Two With One Blow. Then grab Weak Spot.

Featwise: PBS and Precise are qualifiers, with Weapon Focus (shuriken) also necessary. Pick up Far Shot and Rapid Shot. Get a Haste effect.

Bingo, you now have 2d6+2 shuriken, that you're tossing out at at least 4 of at your close-to-max TAB, striking for touch AC and no range penalty anywhere within 20'. Add another energy special ability and that's now 4d6+2 damage per attack roll.

cupkeyk
2007-11-28, 02:48 PM
If you can't apply double your strength or have it work with an expanded critical threat range or greater threat multiplier, how is it better than high Dex builds with Dead Eye? Bow builds actually provide a greater range increment than Power/Brutal throwers. Improved critical applies to bows, keen to arrows. Throw Anything, Brutal throw, Power Throw and Power attack is four feats. A blood storm blade does this so much better. A swift hunter too. It's not even a trap, it's just obviously a bad choice.

Chronos
2007-11-28, 05:05 PM
That said, there's also the Hulking Hurler PrC for the large-and-up sized guys; it's hardly optimized, but its only 3 levels and a hurler can throw ANYTHING at his enemies.(emphasis mine)
Clearly, you've never seen what the CharOp boards have done with the Hulking Hurler. Let's just say that you don't own enough d6s.

dyslexicfaser
2007-11-28, 06:14 PM
(emphasis mine)
Clearly, you've never seen what the CharOp boards have done with the Hulking Hurler. Let's just say that you don't own enough d6s.
Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that. Add in Warhulk and other boosts for crazy strength, then carry around 1330-feet-in-diameter lead balls to crush anyone in your way for 4000+ d6's of damage.

Good old CharOp boards.

Just Alex
2007-11-28, 07:02 PM
I've been tinkering with an idea for use in Eberron. If you happen to have access to the Eberron base book and Races of Eberron, run a Talenta Hafling Fighter 1 or 2/Ninja X with Martial Stalker, Boomerang Daze, Boomerang Ricochet, and Crushing Attacks, possibly going down the 2WF tree, all using the Talenta Boomerang. All those tossed boomerangs should ensure that your opponents will eventually fail a fortitude save for the Boomerang Daze, especially with all that Sudden Strike damage piling up. If you need, drop a ki point to go invisible/ethereal and start piling the boomerangs again. If you go into Master Thrower, Two With One Blow makes the Ricochet and Crushing Attacks dumber, though it will prevent true stupidity by taking Weapon Supremacy and using your boomerangs while in a grapple.
If you do take the Master Thrower levels, a dip into Exotic Weapon Master to grab the Ranged Weapon Trick is good, so you can throw those weapons while in melee.

Mr Pants
2007-11-28, 07:17 PM
"Thrown falchion with improved critical still only have 20/x2"
*snip*


Where are you getting that? A normal falchion has a crit of 18-20/x2, and with Improved Critical it has a 15-20/x2. I also believe he was referring to the master thrower ability that increases the critical multiplier by 1, thus the 15-20/x3.

Douglas
2007-11-28, 07:40 PM
Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that. Add in Warhulk and other boosts for crazy strength, then carry around 1330-feet-in-diameter lead balls to crush anyone in your way for 4000+ d6's of damage.

Good old CharOp boards.
4000? Last time I checked that thread it was well into the billions or trillions of d6s.

cupkeyk
2007-11-28, 07:51 PM
Where are you getting that? A normal falchion has a crit of 18-20/x2, and with Improved Critical it has a 15-20/x2. I also believe he was referring to the master thrower ability that increases the critical multiplier by 1, thus the 15-20/x3.


Check out the Weapon descriptions in the PHB (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/weapons.html) (I happen to have quoted it in the reply as well). Threat range is always 20 with thrown weapons and only double damage on a crit. That is changed if you take that trick from Master thrower, IF you take it, but never otherwise, not with thrown daggers, thrown kukri nor a thrown falchion.

MeklorIlavator
2007-11-28, 08:30 PM
That is changed if you take that trick from Master thrower, IF you take it, but never otherwise, not with thrown daggers, thrown kukri nor a thrown falchion.

Actually, I think that that section only applies to weapons that are not specifically thrown weapons, and the throw anything feat would overturn it, but I believe that this is a case for the simple Q&A thread.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-11-28, 09:14 PM
After master thrower, dump into avenger (good assassin) for the death attack.

Weapons- The best thrown weapon is a explosive, exit wound, returning dagger.

Perferibly two, but it would be expinsive. explosive causes something like 2d6 fire damage in a five foot area, normally including the wielder but scinse it's thrown it's nice. exit wound makes it so that you can hit two people with the same throw, if they're in the same line of effect. returnign is the obivous.

Take double toss, tripping, and weak spot. around 6-8 throws a round (with magic maybe more) and each time you can attempt to trip some one with only a touch attack. makes for good times.

tyckspoon
2007-11-28, 09:25 PM
Check out the Weapon descriptions in the PHB (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/weapons.html) (I happen to have quoted it in the reply as well). Threat range is always 20 with thrown weapons and only double damage on a crit. That is changed if you take that trick from Master thrower, IF you take it, but never otherwise, not with thrown daggers, thrown kukri nor a thrown falchion.

I have to agree with Meklor on this one. If the text in question was applied to all thrown weapons, you would not be able to use the 30ft range increment of a javelin or make a full attack out throwing daggers or shuriken, because

Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action...

Throw Anything makes your weapon act as a proper ranged weapon, so its normal crit properties should apply.

TimeWizard
2007-11-28, 09:26 PM
After master thrower, dump into avenger (good assassin) for the death attack.

Weapons- The best thrown weapon is a explosive, exit wound, returning dagger.

Perferibly two, but it would be expinsive. explosive causes something like 2d6 fire damage in a five foot area, normally including the wielder but scinse it's thrown it's nice. exit wound makes it so that you can hit two people with the same throw, if they're in the same line of effect. returnign is the obivous.

Take double toss, tripping, and weak spot. around 6-8 throws a round (with magic maybe more) and each time you can attempt to trip some one with only a touch attack. makes for good times.

I'd suggest Splitting ove Exit Wound, but I'm unfamiliar with the cost and how strict the same line of effect is. What book is it in?

Second, I say nay to Assassin dip. It's a great class but Death Attack only works if you take several Assassin levels and you work your whole strategy around stealth and the sweet kill. Besides you can't DA outside of 30' unless you use one of your Assassin spells. The only redeeming factor might be poison use, but if your build if based on machine gunning out KPG (knife-propelled-grenades) then it becomes rather useless.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-11-28, 09:48 PM
Thats true but it does come in handy. besides you shouldnt be that far away from a target that the 30' limit isnt a problem.

and splitting is more expensive than exit wound i'm pretty sure. and if you put both explosive and returning on the weapon then you need to be saving gold.

EDIT: the book i believe is Comp.W or the Underdark.

Stam
2007-11-28, 10:48 PM
Splitting property might be expensive, but paired with Doubletoss? Gold, man, pure gold.

Toss that into the blender with the shuriken I mentioned, and on a full attack? That's a friggin' wall of tiny sharp objects approaching!

dyslexicfaser
2007-11-29, 12:21 AM
My favorite throwing enchantment setup is an Exploding Knockback weapon. Speed Exploding Knockback, if I can afford it. Your skip rocks or sling bullets or whatever become a rocket launcher: they explode on impact, and send your enemy flying.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-11-29, 07:17 AM
you cant apply exploding to ranged weapons, thats the draw back. you'd have to apply it to a dagger of sorts.