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Shovah
2007-11-27, 05:07 PM
Ok, as anyone who has seen any of my other posts will know, I'm almost completely new to D&D.
I've recently discovered that a few friends of mine who used to play may be starting again and because of this I've been looking through various classes to see what I like the look of.

While looking through the D&D Wiki, I came across the Psychic Warrior. After looking further into the class, I think that it seems interesting, and I might like to play as one in the future. With powers like Synesthete, Dimension Slide, Ubiquitous Vision and Psychofeedback this class appeals to me - the idea of a warrior with enhanced senses, some mental powers and teleportation interests me greatly.

What I was wondering, is what actually D&D players think of this class. Who uses it, why they like and use it, whether they consisder it to be viable/powerful, what(if any) multiclassing options they belive are viable for it, what other classes they think it works well with and what sort of builds they use with the class.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

SpikeFightwicky
2007-11-27, 05:17 PM
I'm playing a psychic warrior in my current game. I'm not sure how good my 'build' is, but I'm a half-giant, 4th level Psychic Warrior (ECL 5). So far, it's going very good. Metaphysical weapon is hours/level, so I don't have to worry about magic weapons and I save some early money. The class is very self-sufficient, as it can heal damage and stat loss on its own, and has a nice assortment of abilities (like the aformentioned dimension slide). I'm currently the damage dealer of the party, and with my high Con, I have the most HP despite only have 4 levels, plus Vigor gets me through the tough fights (20 temporary HP is really helpful). Right now, my powers are:
1st: Metaphysical Weapon, Force Screen, Vigor
2nd: Body Adjustment
I took psionic talent, psionic weapon and psionic body feats to help with attacks and HP.
With force screen up, I have very decent AC as well.

Shovah
2007-11-27, 05:53 PM
So you find the class quite powerful and versatile. That's good to know.
Do you have any plans for future character development?

I'm considering either a Greatsword wielding Elan or a Xeph with weapon finesse(probably using a shortsword or rapier) as my character, with both of them(probably) having a focus around the type of skills I mentioned in my first post - a teleporting Greatsword wielding Elan with 360 degree vision sounds who can increase his Str/Dex/Con by dropping other stats just sounds like alot of fun to me.

But I'm really not sure on how to develop this character.
From what I've seen so far, doing anything other than sticking with a Psychic Warrior could leave me with a rather small number of power points - multiclassing into a psion would leave a Psychic Warrior with fewer power points than a pure psychic warrior and multiclassing into a non-psionic class would leave a Psychic Warrior with a rather pitiful number of power points for his level(as far as I can tell atleast).

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-27, 06:03 PM
I also play a psychic warrior. I must say, it rocks, period. Psychic warrior has a pretty good balance, and is a nice built in gish which doesn't get abusive power. I decided to do a little research, and crafted a few spells, and now, my psywar can attack from distance with BIG damage, hit every enemy who surrounds him, and of course use the ever useful powers of Expansion (Huge size? Yes please!) and Prevenom Weapon (Up to 40 CON damage, scaling saves? Yes please!). And it's a lot of fun, having a character who could square off against a Titan while grappling while blasting him with mind bullets.

Shovah
2007-11-27, 06:11 PM
Just wondering, but how do you get up to 40 CON damage from Prevenom Weapon? I thought the amount of power points you could spend on one power was limited to your manifester level?

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-27, 06:14 PM
'Xactly. By level 20, Prevenom does 40 CON points if you spend 20 power points, 46 if you Overchannel. It's a beast, seeing how truevenom DOESN'T scale and does a pathetic 2d8 CON damage. If I found any way to remove poison immunity, everyone will have to fear me, since 40 CON damage is REALLY nasty.

Shovah
2007-11-27, 06:21 PM
It could be wrong, but the wiki says it takes 6 points for +2 damage, not 1. So do 20 consecutive prevenoms stack, is the wiki wrong, or did you misread it? I really hope it is one of the first 2.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-27, 06:25 PM
Hmm. My XPH says 1. Maybe it had a printing error or there was an errata?

lord_khaine
2007-11-27, 06:31 PM
it is +2 con damage for every 6 power points, though it still makes it quite usefull, as the dc is based on your manifester level, and not the level of the power.

that aside, PWar is generaly consideret a pretty decent class, with quite a few interesting build options.
as for multiclassing, 20 levels Pwar is a viable build, and i would generaly advice against taking any levels that does not advance your manifester level as well.

tyckspoon
2007-11-27, 06:32 PM
The cost to manifest the power is only 1, tho, which makes the first 2 points of Con damage a very cost-efficient way to do damage. It's very expensive to augment, but then Con damage is one of the most potent ability damages.

Draz74
2007-11-27, 07:50 PM
Psychic Warrior is great fun. The only real problem with it is that there's hardly any reason not to PrC out, and take the Slayer PrC for 10 levels of full BAB (and a couple nifty class features, and more skill points) at the cost of 1 Manifester Level.

Without Tome of Battle, my favorite melee build is Ranger 1 / Psychic Warrior 4 / Slayer X for sure.

Zeful
2007-11-27, 08:01 PM
Pick up the first level power Dissipating touch. It's a great anti-annoyance power. You can sunder any trivial annoyance for up to 20d6 (or if you maximise the power up to 14d6 damage to one item with no save).

And yes I find psychic warriors to be a very good class.

Shovah
2007-11-27, 08:24 PM
Higher BAB and full immunity to all mind affecting powers and spells sounds nice but the favoured enemy doesn't seem terribly useful due to it only working on a chosen psionic species.

I'm guessing the mind protection thing is the real attraction? I would miss the 4 bonus feats and, to a lesser extent, the 12 power points that I would be giving up but a completely protected mind is a good thing.

The_Snark
2007-11-27, 08:34 PM
The Elan sounds a bit better to me—as much as I like finesse-based duelists, it's hard to get them to do a lot of damage. Both will work, though.

As for advancement... Slayer will get you full base attack bonus plus some class features, but you'll lose a bit of manifesting progression and the bonus feats. Warmind is another possibility, but it has its own separate power progression, so staying with psychic warrior will probably be better in the end.

brant167
2007-11-27, 10:28 PM
I'm playing a human psi warrior who focuses in mounted combat. It is a great deal of fun. I picked up leadership and convinced the dm to allow me to take the griffin levels from savage species to start off my cohort.

Psi warrior is very versatile; it allows you to do a lot. If you want to go more nature warrior oriented the claw based powers are a lot of funs and can lead to you healing a great deal of damage back when you hit someone. If you want to go battle field controller you have enough feats and powers to pull it off.

If you want to go heavy defense I would suggest monk for a level to get wis to AC then pick up inertial armor, precog defense, and a few other powers to really bost your AC.

Another option is to go heavy hitter with a two handed weapon there are a great deal of self buffs and as mentioned earlier prevenomed weapon is very useful.

The last psi warrior I played (wasn't that optimized but was fun) was a paladin of freedom 2(varient in unearthed arcana) psi warrior8/ illithad slayer 7 who was on a holy mission to rid the world of Ilsensine and his mind flayers.

Just don't forget to pick out pounce as soon as possible getting those extra attacks after a charge or move action really lets you shine compared to the other melee based classes at that level:smallsmile: .(with the exception of 1st level barbarian substitution cheese)

Overall Psi Warrior is one of my favorite classes and I hope you enjoy playing it.

Shovah
2007-11-27, 10:30 PM
So you would suggest a full Psychic Warrior(ie 20 levels).

I like the idea of the Elan, but I also like the idea of a character whos combat style is more reactive and based more on dodging/parrying ect - the Xephs dex bonus would help with that and for me, a Greatsword isn't a terribly precise or nimble weapon, although it can be used skillfully.

Collin152
2007-11-27, 10:59 PM
A greatsword is no less precise than a longsword, strangely enough.

Shovah
2007-11-27, 11:04 PM
I know that, but I prefer not using it like that, as it just feels a little odd to me. The group don't seem to go for completely optimised builds either, which is good since I'm new(apparently the group wizard likes to blow doors open with his high level spells rather than letting the rogue handle them).

Collin152
2007-11-27, 11:42 PM
I know that, but I prefer not using it like that, as it just feels a little odd to me. The group don't seem to go for completely optimised builds either, which is good since I'm new(apparently the group wizard likes to blow doors open with his high level spells rather than letting the rogue handle them).

Who wouldn't? Well, I'd use shrink item on the door then use it as a makeshift cover later, but still.

Draz74
2007-11-27, 11:53 PM
Higher BAB and full immunity to all mind affecting powers and spells sounds nice but the favoured enemy doesn't seem terribly useful due to it only working on a chosen psionic species.

I'm guessing the mind protection thing is the real attraction? I would miss the 4 bonus feats and, to a lesser extent, the 12 power points that I would be giving up but a completely protected mind is a good thing.

Yeah, Favored Enemy is no big deal. And the missing manifester level (with PP) and 4 missing feats are a trade-off. But it's well worth it in my book for the following reasons:
+3 BAB, which can get you up to 4 iterative attacks in a full attack
Mind Protection class features
A good Will save! Not super-important at high levels when you have the Mind Blank class features (although still nice, since there are a few nasty spells that give a Will save but aren't "Mind-Affecting"). But for a warrior, getting a good Will save at low/mid-levels is HUGE.
Skills. Two more skill points per level, and access to some really nice skills like Spot, Listen, Sense Motive, and Autohypnosis.

I actually really like your idea for the Psychic Swashbuckler. A Psychic Warrior/Slayer with Weapon Finesse and a Rapier, and good teleportation/acrobatic powers ... sweet! Dissapating Touch can be a great way to make up for the way mobile, swashbuckling types sometimes don't get full attacks. (Spring Attack? Not sure if it would be worthwhile in this build or not, since the prereqs are lame.) Force Screen and Defensive Precognition can get your AC nice and high. Hmmm.

Race is an interesting question. I'd say Xeph is probably a more natural fit for a swashbuckling style. If you go with Elan ... I almost want to say Wilder/Slayer might be better than Psychic Warrior/Slayer, just because it gets SO many PP to use on your Elan racial abilities. But more hardcore optimizers will probably explain why this is a horrible idea, especially with the Elan's Charisma penalty. :smallfrown: But an Elan Psychic Warrior will burn through his PP very quickly if he uses his racial abilities. So ... stick with Xeph, I guess.

Shovah
2007-11-28, 12:19 AM
Cool, I found a supporter :).

I was thinking about the greatsword build, and I think a Xeph might be better for it too. Strength of My Enemy and Psychofeedback can give you a large enough boost to strength to make up for the Xephs -2, the darkvision would be nice and of course the Xephs natural +2 dex would help with my idea of a dextrous warrior(I still don't think a greatsword fits too well), maybe not parrying much but atleast dodging.
The Elan does have those great racial abilities, but with only 115 daily powerpoints, they wont be nearly as effective as they would on, say, a psion.
Thoughts?

Telok
2007-11-28, 10:38 AM
One thing to be aware of is that you have limited power points, and those power points are what you really fight with. I lost a nice 5th level PsyWar when the rest of the party thought that full HP and three PP was all I needed to be effective as the party tank.

Don't be afraid to buck the party line when you're low on PP, you need your beauty sleep just like a caster.

For powers you may want to consider Empathic Transfer, Hostile. Damage, healing, and a touch attack all at the same time. Will save for half, great for playing smack-a-rogue.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-28, 10:49 AM
Also consider the friendly empathic transfer and Vigor. Vigor's always neat and almost always in the setlist, but if I'm not mistaken, yuo can convert those temporary extra HP into "real" HP with empathic, making you an efficient healer in a pinch. Not only do YOU get stronger with vigor, you can also help other directly with it.

Armads
2007-11-28, 10:52 AM
Expanded Knowledge (share pain) manifested on a psicrystal, then sharing a vigor between you and the psicrystal, basically makes you unkillable to normal damage due to the ridiculous amount of bonus hps you get.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-28, 10:57 AM
Also consider the Stygian powes from the complete psionic. Some seem rather handy.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-28, 11:07 AM
My suggestion: You might wanna consider picking up a lance, longspear, guisarme, ranseur, or glaive. Mostly because that extra reach is nice when combined with Expansion.

Race: You're better off as a Xeph. The dexterity boost plus your lack of heavy armor will make you abit harder to hit.

Of course, none of that matters if you can pick up a Human with Hidden Talent as a bonus feat.

+2 PP and another first level power.

If you go human, take three levels of Human Paragon. You'll end up with +2 to WIS, an unrestricted bonus feat, and +2 levels of manifesting(essentially the same thing as spellcasting). If you take Slayer to 10, you end up with +17 BAB. So an extra attack, an inherent WIS bonus, and an unrestricted bonus feat at the cost of two fighter bonus feats, two psionic powers, and a few power points(which are made up for by the +2 WIS bonus).

Illiterate Scribe
2007-11-28, 12:16 PM
Yeah, Favored Enemy is no big deal. And the missing manifester level (with PP) and 4 missing feats are a trade-off. But it's well worth it in my book for the following reasons:
+3 BAB, which can get you up to 4 iterative attacks in a full attack
Mind Protection class features
A good Will save! Not super-important at high levels when you have the Mind Blank class features (although still nice, since there are a few nasty spells that give a Will save but aren't "Mind-Affecting"). But for a warrior, getting a good Will save at low/mid-levels is HUGE.
Skills. Two more skill points per level, and access to some really nice skills like Spot, Listen, Sense Motive, and Autohypnosis.

I actually really like your idea for the Psychic Swashbuckler. A Psychic Warrior/Slayer with Weapon Finesse and a Rapier, and good teleportation/acrobatic powers ... sweet! Dissapating Touch can be a great way to make up for the way mobile, swashbuckling types sometimes don't get full attacks. (Spring Attack? Not sure if it would be worthwhile in this build or not, since the prereqs are lame.) Force Screen and Defensive Precognition can get your AC nice and high. Hmmm.

Race is an interesting question. I'd say Xeph is probably a more natural fit for a swashbuckling style. If you go with Elan ... I almost want to say Wilder/Slayer might be better than Psychic Warrior/Slayer, just because it gets SO many PP to use on your Elan racial abilities. But more hardcore optimizers will probably explain why this is a horrible idea, especially with the Elan's Charisma penalty. :smallfrown: But an Elan Psychic Warrior will burn through his PP very quickly if he uses his racial abilities. So ... stick with Xeph, I guess.

If you don't find it too silly, an elven courtblade makes a nice swashbuckler weapon.

Shovah
2007-11-28, 03:07 PM
Did you just show me a 2 handed sword that I can use weapon finesse with? Because if you did I think I might actually have to do you.
If the elven courtblade is basically a finessable greatsword(with d10 rather than 2d6), does it get the 1.5 strength added, or does it add 1.5 dexterity(I'm guessing strength, but dexterity would be awesome).

Shovah
2007-11-28, 03:10 PM
edit: Double post from lag

zaei
2007-11-28, 07:51 PM
Did you just show me a 2 handed sword that I can use weapon finesse with? Because if you did I think I might actually have to do you.
If the elven courtblade is basically a finessable greatsword(with d10 rather than 2d6), does it get the 1.5 strength added, or does it add 1.5 dexterity(I'm guessing strength, but dexterity would be awesome).

1.5x str.

kjhlkjhjkh

Shovah
2007-11-29, 07:51 AM
1.5x str.

kjhlkjhjkh

1) Too bad on the 1.5x str(rules out going primarily for high dexterity and weapon finesse)

2) What the hell> :smallconfused: