Bard College of Eloquence Changeling, a good idea?

[Eradis]

As always, when preparing for a game as a player, even if most of them never start, I have a plethora of concepts for characters. This time one of my top contenders is a Bard College of Eloquence, which is apparently an amazing Face, if not the best (is it?). What strike me as even better, would be slapping the ability to change Face.

What's your opinion on this? Is it a good idea? What am I obviously missing from my raw idea?

[meandean]

Whether it's "the best" is going to depend on the specifics of your game. There aren't explicit rules laying out what exact advantage you get from changing your appearance, or of course how often such situations will even come up. But yeah, it's a great character to play if you enjoy being a Real Actor!™ who takes on different personas.

[Unoriginal]

As always, when preparing for a game as a player, even if most of them never start, I have a plethora of concepts for characters. This time one of my top contenders is a Bard College of Eloquence, which is apparently an amazing Face, if not the best (is it?). What strike me as even better, would be slapping the ability to change Face.

What's your opinion on this? Is it a good idea? What am I obviously missing from my raw idea?

I mean nothing about it is a bad idea, but what do you want to do with this character?

[Eradis]

Whether it's "the best" is going to depend on the specifics of your game. There aren't explicit rules laying out what exact advantage you get from changing your appearance, or of course how often such situations will even come up. But yeah, it's a great character to play if you enjoy being a Real Actor!™ who takes on different personas.

Really not aiming for "best". Viable, and stat-efficient, sure, but not an optimized beast.


I mean nothing about it is a bad idea, but what do you want to do with this character?

It will, if the game ever start, be a monster hunting type of game where we will have to investigate disasters and odd occurrence. I am mostly aiming to support the group in a meaningful way in battle, but mostly cover for us outside of battle.

Ex.: We need a document inside the locked office of a princess? I would, of course, change into her and politely ask a guard if caught lock-picking to open it for me, while keeping it quiet not to put anyone in trouble.

In short: I love support abilities. I love using deception and misdirection. I often find myself in the leadership position, might as well have the charisma for it.

[Psyren]

It's a good combination as it will allow you to cover all the "face skills" with ease. Changeling gets two, Bard gets three more, you get an additional two from your background, and you'll eventually get Expertise with four of those and Reliable Talent with Persuasion and Deception. You'll also never need a disguise kit, saving you another proficiency. All that is before spells and feats. Don't be surprised if your DM eventually skips having you roll for these two a lot.

While the race doesn't give you much in combat (being able to swap between Small and Medium at will may come up, but that's about it), Bards don't need the help anyway, you'll always have something relevant to do. Unfailing Inspiration means that you'll never waste the dice you hand out to your friends, and Unsettling Words will make you a pretty deadly controller and debuffer. Universal Speech is also handy for language-based spells like Suggestion.

[Eradis]

It's a good combination as it will allow you to cover all the "face skills" with ease. Changeling gets two, Bard gets three more, you get an additional two from your background, and you'll eventually get Expertise with four of those and Reliable Talent with Persuasion and Deception. You'll also never need a disguise kit, saving you another proficiency. All that is before spells and feats. Don't be surprised if your DM eventually skips having you roll for these two a lot.

While the race doesn't give you much in combat (being able to swap between Small and Medium at will may come up, but that's about it), Bards don't need the help anyway, you'll always have something relevant to do. Unfailing Inspiration means that you'll never waste the dice you hand out to your friends, and Unsettling Words will make you a pretty deadly controller and debuffer. Universal Speech is also handy for language-based spells like Suggestion.

I am not sure what do you mean by "being able to swap between Small and Medium at will"? The Changeling cannot change into a Small being. It can grow or reduce in height and weight but "but not
so much that your size changes" (quoted from Eberron - Rising from the Last War).

I must admit that I forgot about the additional skills and it is pretty much confirming my race for this one.

[Psyren]

I am not sure what do you mean by "being able to swap between Small and Medium at will"? The Changeling cannot change into a Small being. It can grow or reduce in height and weight but "but not
so much that your size changes" (quoted from Eberron - Rising from the Last War).

I must admit that I forgot about the additional skills and it is pretty much confirming my race for this one.

Sorry, didn't realize you were using the old one. I'm reading the most current one from Mordenkainen Presents Monsters of the Multiverse, which states:

"You can also adjust your height and weight and can change your size between Medium and Small."

[Eradis]

Sorry, didn't realize you were using the old one. I'm reading the most current one from Mordenkainen Presents Monsters of the Multiverse, which states:

"You can also adjust your height and weight and can change your size between Medium and Small."

I didn't know they changed this in the new book. The price tag was heftier than usual so I did not buy it yet. Waiting for a sale. Is it the only difference between the Eberon and Multiverse?

[P. G. Macer]

I didn't know they changed this in the new book. The price tag was heftier than usual so I did not buy it yet. Waiting for a sale. Is it the only difference between the Eberon and Multiverse?

It’s not the only difference. I haven’t gotten MMM (for reasons best not gone into), but I do know that there’s a difference in creature type between the two versions: The Eberron Changelings are Humanoids, but the Multiverse Changelings are Fey.

[Psyren]

I didn't know they changed this in the new book. The price tag was heftier than usual so I did not buy it yet. Waiting for a sale. Is it the only difference between the Eberon and Multiverse?

There are several:

1) Their type is Fey now instead of Humanoid, which protects them from "X Person" spells and effects.
2) As with all newer races, they can put their +2/+1 anywhere you want instead of being forced to use fixed stats (Cha/Dex.)
3) In addition to being able to change your size category when your shapeshift, you can choose whether your base form is Medium or Small now too.
4) They can now choose Performance as one of their racial proficiencies in addition to the other four.

They also got nerfed since WGtE of course, but ERtLW did that rather than MotM.

[Corran]

What's your opinion on this? Is it a good idea? What am I obviously missing from my raw idea?
Hmm, although a bit silly, I do like the idea of a somewhat obvious flaw for someone who might otherwise be very masterful at diguises and misdirection. Maybe you like oranges. A lot. You almost always seem to be chewing at one or holding one in your hand. When you are using a disguise you are wise enough to avoid such things since they will probably be out of character, though you most likely still carry a few of them in your pockets. And if you are feeling safe in your disguise, then maybe the "princess" is now placing a huge order on those juicy Cormyrian oranges. Similarly if anyone is ever after you, it may be funny if there is a small chance for a "trail" of oranges to lead them to you. Same if a small orange ever happens to spoil an otherwise perfect ruse in some way.

The point is, that even the most innocent vice can be a luxury for a shapechanger who tries to make the most out of it to afford. And that can at rare times be a bit funny to rp, or it might create an interesting situation or two for you and the rest of the partps.

ps: Be wary of any poisoned ones!

[Eradis]

Fey, Small and Medium in shapeshifting? Additional skill in the lot of possibility? More versatility in ability score at creation?

It all sound like upgrades to me!

Wow!


Hmm, although a bit silly, I do like the idea of a somewhat obvious flaw for someone who might otherwise be very masterful at diguises and misdirection. Maybe you like oranges. A lot. You almost always seem to be chewing at one or holding one in your hand. When you are using a disguise you are wise enough to avoid such things since they will probably be out of character, though you most likely still carry a few of them in your pockets. And if you are feeling safe in your disguise, then maybe the "princess" is now placing a huge order on those juicy Cormyrian oranges. Similarly if anyone is ever after you, it may be funny if there is a small chance for a "trail" of oranges to lead them to you. Same if a small orange ever happens to spoil an otherwise perfect ruse in some way.

The point is, that even the most innocent vice can be a luxury for a shapechanger who tries to make the most out of it to afford. And that can at rare times be a bit funny to rp, or it might create an interesting situation or two for you and the rest of the partps.

ps: Be wary of any poisoned ones!

Yes. Personal quirk while in disguise is a fun RP element.

[follacchioso]

It's a good combination and you can have a lot of fun with it. I had a similar character for more than two years and enjoyed it.

One problem is that the main changeling's ability works best in solo missions. Being able to get a different aspect and personality is great, and can lead to many excellent RP moments, but very often there will be no time for that. You can disguise and infiltrate the goblin's camp to open the doors for the party to enter; but that will slow the pace of the game, everybody else will be bored while you do your solo stuff.
You need to be very open with your DM and fellow players, to really get the best from it.

My character liked to play tricks on his fellow players, before they knew he was a changeling; for example, he convinced them that he was getting older and older by the minute; he started the day as a child and ended it as an elder.

In real life, legends about changeling are based on real superstitions - I recommend you to read about that. You could watch the "You Are Not My Mother" movie, although the ending is trash.

You are also a Fey, meaning some spells and effects can detect you; Protection from Good and Evil will make you useless against an opponent.

[Eradis]

It's a good combination and you can have a lot of fun with it. I had a similar character for more than two years and enjoyed it.

One problem is that the main changeling's ability works best in solo missions. Being able to get a different aspect and personality is great, and can lead to many excellent RP moments, but very often there will be no time for that. You can disguise and infiltrate the goblin's camp to open the doors for the party to enter; but that will slow the pace of the game, everybody else will be bored while you do your solo stuff.
You need to be very open with your DM and fellow players, to really get the best from it.

My character liked to play tricks on his fellow players, before they knew he was a changeling; for example, he convinced them that he was getting older and older by the minute; he started the day as a child and ended it as an elder.

In real life, legends about changeling are based on real superstitions - I recommend you to read about that. You could watch the "You Are Not My Mother" movie, although the ending is trash.

You are also a Fey, meaning some spells and effects can detect you; Protection from Good and Evil will make you useless against an opponent.

I wanted to play it more for favor or way of getting out of tight spot as a safety net. Originally, the concept of the game was young people trained from young age and the campaign would've start at level 1 when they are something around 18 years old. I wanted to play the Changeling disguised as his best friend from the training who died for some reason, then stuck most of the time with a teenage form to honor his death.

Unfortunately the race is a hard no from the DM since he believes it would trivialize most social encounters. Having over 15 minimum for the main social rolls at level 3 is, in my opinion, what would have trivialize most of the social encounter (and the point of playing a Bard), but anyway. Back to the drawing board of concept, minus anything social I guess. I will go with something completely different and keep that character idea for another campaign (most likely a NPC in one of my game).

[follacchioso]

That's a shame, it was a cool character build. Maybe you will be able to play it in another game!

[AHF]

I wanted to play it more for favor or way of getting out of tight spot as a safety net. Originally, the concept of the game was young people trained from young age and the campaign would've start at level 1 when they are something around 18 years old. I wanted to play the Changeling disguised as his best friend from the training who died for some reason, then stuck most of the time with a teenage form to honor his death.

Unfortunately the race is a hard no from the DM since he believes it would trivialize most social encounters. Having over 15 minimum for the main social rolls at level 3 is, in my opinion, what would have trivialize most of the social encounter (and the point of playing a Bard), but anyway. Back to the drawing board of concept, minus anything social I guess. I will go with something completely different and keep that character idea for another campaign (most likely a NPC in one of my game).

If you dip two levels of warlock, you could get the obvious combat upgrade (damage wise anyway) and take Mask of Many Faces to achieve a very similar ability (along with several other goodies of your choice).

[kingcheesepants]

Unfortunately the race is a hard no from the DM since he believes it would trivialize most social encounters. Having over 15 minimum for the main social rolls at level 3 is, in my opinion, what would have trivialize most of the social encounter (and the point of playing a Bard), but anyway. Back to the drawing board of concept, minus anything social I guess. I will go with something completely different and keep that character idea for another campaign (most likely a NPC in one of my game).

You are absolutely correct that being an eloquence bard is the factor that trivializes social encounters. Having an auto 15 (or if you take deception and persuasion expertise and pump your cha, an auto 20 at lvl 4) makes most checks superfluous. In a game I ran there was a Emerald dragonborn eloquence bard and she didn't even have to roll her persuasion/deception checks half the time. As long as she made a reasonable request she auto passed most of the time.

Being able to change your appearance with ease like changelings can is of course useful but something that can be replicated with a level 1 spell (Disguise Self) or even moreso with an uncommon item (Hat of Disguise) or a warlock invocation (Mask of Many Faces). None of these are considered to be especially game breaking or overpowered.

As for new character concepts, it sounded like you wanted a character with decent charisma who could be a party leader. And you're doing a monster hunting type game right? How about a Paladin? Maybe a Warforged Paladin built to protect the people from monsters? Just an idea. Anyways good luck.

[Oramac]

Unfortunately the race is a hard no from the DM since he believes it would trivialize most social encounters. Having over 15 minimum for the main social rolls at level 3 is, in my opinion, what would have trivialize most of the social encounter (and the point of playing a Bard), but anyway.

The race is a no, or the social stuff is a no? The race does not grant the social features. Just play a half-elf Eloquence Bard. Problem solved.

Incidentally, I personally think the Mastermind Rogue is an amazing multiclass to combo with Eloquence, as well.

[Leon]

Only you can decide, unless of course you have no free will and can only base your choices off what random people on a forum say.

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: Bard Colleges don't teach Necromancy.