[3.5e] Changing a targeted spell into an area or effect spell

[SillySymphonies]

(On the off chance one of my players frequents this forum, please leave this thread. :smallsmile:)

As a DM, I want to turn corporeal instability (Manual of the Planes and Spell Compendium) into a living spell (Eberron Campaign Setting and Monster Manual III). For that, I need to change the spell from a targeted spell to an area or effect spell: other than Ocular Spell (Lords of Madness), what are potential ways to achieve this?

[AsuraKyoko]

Corporeal Instability is a touch spell, which means that Reach Spell will make it into a ray. You can then use Ray Coning (a feat from Dragon Magazine, iirc) to turn that ray into a cone. This is a total metamagic adjustment of +4, but that's still only an 8th level spell, so it's achievable without cheese.

I am curious why you want one as a living spell. I can imagine a few possibilities, but I'm just wondering what your particular use case is.

[sleepyphoenixx]

You can then use Ray Coning (a feat from Dragon Magazine, iirc) to turn that ray into a cone.

There's also the Lens of Ray Widening (LoM) which does pretty much the same thing.

[SillySymphonies]

Corporeal Instability is a touch spell, which means that Reach Spell will make it into a ray. You can then use Ray Coning (a feat from Dragon Magazine, iirc) to turn that ray into a cone.

There's also the Lens of Ray Widening (LoM) which does pretty much the same thing.
As far as I can tell, a spell has either a target (or targets), an effect (e.g. a ray), or an area: https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#aimingASpell.

So just changing the spell into a ray should suffice. (I'm not convinced though Reach Spell would work, given it turns a touch spell only 'effectively' into a ray ...)




I am curious why you want one as a living spell. I can imagine a few possibilities, but I'm just wondering what your particular use case is.
The PCs will be visiting a whaling settlement, and I needed an appropriate random encounter for when the local transmuter would have a spell mishap around the try pots (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Try_pot) ...

[AsuraKyoko]

I'm pretty sure the commonly agreed ruling has Reach spell explicitly make spells into rays, so that you can use Split Ray and other effects on them.

That sounds like a fun encounter!

[Troacctid]

You're the DM. Just fudge it. Living versions of targeted spells exist all over canon, so it's a silly restriction in the first place.

[ShurikVch]

Mistling template (Forge of War):

Conjure Living Spell (Sp): Once per day, a mistling can transform any spell or spell-like ability it can cast into a living spell (ECS 293). This requires a full-round action, and it counts as one daily casting or use of the spell or spell-like ability. The resultant living spell lasts for a number of hours equal to the mistling's Hit Dice or until destroyed, and it follows the mental orders of its creator.
Now, see: it says "any spell or spell-like ability it can cast"
But SLA which Mistling gets from just being a Mistling of sufficient HD include such as Baleful Polymorph (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/balefulPolymorph.htm), Insanity (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/insanity.htm), Phantasmal Killer (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantasmalKiller.htm), Polymorph Any Object (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm), and Tasha's Hideous Laughter (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hideousLaughter.htm).
As you can see, they're all single-target spells.
So, how about a Mistling with Corporeal Instability SLA (or spell)?

[Crake]

Umm... this creature already exists. It's called a chaos beast.

[SillySymphonies]

Now, see: it says "any spell or spell-like ability it can cast"
Neat! 👍




Umm... this creature already exists. It's called a chaos beast.
😂

An ooze would fit my purposes better than an outsider, hence the request. :smallwink:

[Jervis]

The PCs will be visiting a whaling settlement, and I needed an appropriate random encounter for when the local transmuter would have a spell mishap around the try pots (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Try_pot) ...

Uh spell mishap?

[SillySymphonies]

Uh spell mishap?
Refer to page 102 of the DMG: 'Spell Gone Awry: A spellcaster has foolishly experimented with a spell or had a mishap with a scroll. The PCs might have to contend with a rampaging summoned creature, the aftermath of a fireball in the marketplace, or a squad of the city guard under a confusion effect.'

[Jervis]

Refer to page 102 of the DMG: 'Spell Gone Awry: A spellcaster has foolishly experimented with a spell or had a mishap with a scroll. The PCs might have to contend with a rampaging summoned creature, the aftermath of a fireball in the marketplace, or a squad of the city guard under a confusion effect.'

Yeah but I mean why would it happen? Does he have a habit of using off list scrolls, is he using a custom spell he researched, do you have a custom spell skill check crit fail system?

[Crake]

Neat! 👍




😂

An ooze would fit my purposes better than an outsider, hence the request. :smallwink:

Chaos beasts are practically oozes already, do you specifically require the ooze type for some reason? If you want to make it more oozy, you can add the gelatinous creature type, though that changes it to aberration, not ooze.

[InvisibleBison]

An ooze would fit my purposes better than an outsider, hence the request. :smallwink:

So take a chaos beast and change its type to ooze, or ignore living spell's requirements and use corporeal instability as a basis for one even though it's a targeted spell. You're the DM, you're supposed to homebrew new stuff for your games. It's just as effective as and way easier than trawling through half a dozen sourcebooks trying to find some way to concoct something close enough to what you have in mind out of preexisting rules elements.

[Crake]

So take a chaos beast and change its type to ooze, or ignore living spell's requirements and use corporeal instability as a basis for one even though it's a targeted spell. You're the DM, you're supposed to homebrew new stuff for your games. It's just as effective as and way easier than trawling through half a dozen sourcebooks trying to find some way to concoct something close enough to what you have in mind out of preexisting rules elements.

Yeah, second this, you don't need to play mix and match, you can just do it.

[AnonJr]

Yeah but I mean why would it happen?

Sometimes something happens, the DM asks for a concentration check, and the dice epically fail you. One "1" at a time. Or so I've heard...


So take a chaos beast and change its type to ooze, or ignore living spell's requirements and use corporeal instability as a basis for one even though it's a targeted spell. You're the DM, you're supposed to homebrew new stuff for your games. It's just as effective as and way easier than trawling through half a dozen sourcebooks trying to find some way to concoct something close enough to what you have in mind out of preexisting rules elements.

Thirded. The Traveler smiled, and made a bad accident worse - an unheard of Living Spell.

[SillySymphonies]

Yeah but I mean why would it happen? Does he have a habit of using off list scrolls, is he using a custom spell he researched, do you have a custom spell skill check crit fail system?
As far as I'm concerned, an NPC spellcaster's experiments take time and cannot be represented in game terms. To paraphrase the daelkyr entry in the Eberron Campaign Setting: a wizard can polymorph a creature into something else easily enough; however, creating a new species of monster such as the owlbear takes years to accomplish.




Sometimes something happens, the DM asks for a concentration check, and the dice epically fail you. One "1" at a time. Or so I've heard...

Thirded. The Traveler smiled, and made a bad accident worse - an unheard of Living Spell.
👍

[ShurikVch]

Sometimes something happens, the DM asks for a concentration check, and the dice epically fail you. One "1" at a time. Or so I've heard...



Thirded. The Traveler smiled, and made a bad accident worse - an unheard of Living Spell.
I'm suggesting random unexpected planar breach to one of such interesting places as the Far Realm, Flesh Forges (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Dwiergus), or Xoriat...

[Jervis]

As far as I'm concerned, an NPC spellcaster's experiments take time and cannot be represented in game terms. To paraphrase the daelkyr entry in the Eberron Campaign Setting: a wizard can polymorph a creature into something else easily enough; however, creating a new species of monster such as the owlbear takes years to accomplish.

👍

Ah NPC magic, that makes sense