What's the leading pantheon in the east?

[Smoutwortel]

As established by Thor the Eastern pantheon is dead.
The dark one does take up a new colour, but doesn't take their area of expertise.
Now the question is who rules the east.

[hamishspence]

Maybe there's only 3 continents - "North", "South" and "West" - with the area east of the North and South Continents being the in-universe equivalent of the Pacific Ocean, and having no dominant pantheon.

[Joerg]

Yes, why should the gods have created a part of the world where none of them are worshiped?

[brian 333]

Since we know the Eastern Deities were killed long before the start of Start of Darkness, and we know there have been many worlds since then, we can assume that the current world never had a place to put the long-deceased green deities.

[Precure]

If Redcloak's plan succeeds, somehow, Dark One can take the east, ruling over a land populated by goblinoids and some monster races.

[Dame_Mechanus]

If Redcloak's plan succeeds, somehow, Dark One can take the east, ruling over a land populated by goblinoids and some monster races.

Wouldn't that conflict with "no making changes once we're finished with the world?"

Then again, the Dark One never agreed to that rule.

[brian 333]

And then again, there is no Eastern Continent for this to happen on. All of the land is North, South, Or West.

Unless the East is an aquatic realm. Tritons and Merfolk, and other assorted intelligent aquatic races ahoy!

[Doug Lampert]

And then again, there is no Eastern Continent for this to happen on. All of the land is North, South, Or West.

Unless the East is an aquatic realm. Tritons and Merfolk, and other assorted intelligent aquatic races ahoy!

Do we even know that there is an East? I mean, this is a D&D world, so it may well be flat (hex maps tend to be), which means that it's easy to take your hex map and label one corner the north pole, one 120 degrees counterclockwise from that the west pole, and the one 120 degrees from that the south pole.

Done, actually works better on a hex map than a conventional four directions world as you don't have a pair of directions pointing toward a hex edge.

[Fyraltari]

Do we even know that there is an East? I mean, this is a D&D world, so it may well be flat (hex maps tend to be), which means that it's easy to take your hex map and label one corner the north pole, one 120 degrees counterclockwise from that the west pole, and the one 120 degrees from that the south pole.

Done, actually works better on a hex map than a conventional four directions world as you don't have a pair of directions pointing toward a hex edge.

Yes, Minrah mentionned she always found it odd there were no Eastern Gods.

[hroþila]

The OotS world is round by the way. Explicitly shown at the end of HtPGHS and when V did that thing they did. Also shown in the story about the creation of the world back during the trial in Azure City.

[Peelee]

The OotS world is round by the way. Explicitly shown at the end of HtPGHS and when V did that thing they did. Also shown in the story about the creation of the world back during the trial in Azure City.

Also shown here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html).

[brian 333]

Also shown here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html).

There may be an unknown continent on the far side of the globe. So far, we have seen no hint of it, but as we know from many different discussions,

"Absence of evidence is evidence that proves my favorite theory."

I think Euripides said that. Or Sophocles. Somebody.

[LuisDantas]

We know who the leading pantheon of the East were, from flashbacks in #272, #273 and #1141. They are even named and numbered in #273, although there may be more off-panel.

From what we learned circa #1141, it appears that they are not a part of this current world, nor is an entirely new pantheon - at least, not as far as Thor knows and is willing to tell Durkon and Minrah.

On the other hand, Minrah's line in #1141 hints that there is some form of eastern land where a separate pantheon might conceivably be worshipped if it did exist. It is not a given, but it is hinted at.

So I would guess that in this world the existence of eastern lands is not widely accepted as true. There may even be a taboo against talking about them.

Or, alternatively, the existence of the lands may be fairly well established, but their culture is either not developed enough for worship habits to be expected or too foreign and mysterious for the other continents to have much of a clue.

A third possibility, perhaps the most likely, is that some form of eastern culture does in fact exist and is widely known of, but has no worship pantheon of its own. It may be a group of islands with small and separate clusters of population that never reached the limiar necessary to originate deities of their own, or it may be larger expanses of territory that for some reason have mostly worshippers of "foreign" deities.

Why do I expect this to be most likely? Because this is a world where divinations are fairly reliable and readily available. I don't think there is much wiggle room for genuine doubts about something as major and basic as the existence of whole archipelagos and continents. And going by my reading of Minrah's lines in #1141, the existence of inhabited eastern lands should be fairly well established. There would be nothing to question otherwise. At the same time, it is hard to imagine that there might be some pantheon there without Thor being at least aware of their existence.

[ti'esar]

I think that's misreading Minrah's line. From space, there is pretty obviously no Eastern Continent (it's been noted before, incidentally, that the world within the rift does seem to have landmasses visible in all directions...) - she's just pointing out the oddity of there only being pantheons for three of the four cardinal directions, not implying that a geographical region that might conceivably worship Eastern Gods exists.

[Dame_Mechanus]

On the other hand, Minrah's line in #1141 hints that there is some form of eastern land where a separate pantheon might conceivably be worshipped if it did exist. It is not a given, but it is hinted at.

It seems more to hint that it's weird there's a North, South, and West Pantheon with no corresponding East, not that there's an obvious place where the East would be worshipped. Like, the elven deities which both V and Veldrina worship are clearly established as part of the Western Pantheon, even though the implication is that there's no shortage of different elven deities for elves specifically to revere. Not to mention that depending on how you spin the globe, if you're in Gobbotopia you could regard the "western" landmass as being eastern.

[super dark33]

Who says that the pantheons always picked one cardinal direction?


Maybe one world all the followers of thor lived in the south, maybe in another everyone lived on a habitable north pole on a desert world, maybe in another they associated with different shapes.
They had a lot of time to think about it.

[Fyraltari]

she's just pointing out the oddity of there only being pantheons for three of the four cardinal directions

Yup. For comparison in The Great Power of the Chninkel the world is ruled over by three immortals constantly warring with each other and, as a result, they only have three cardinal directions.

Do not ask me how they can use that in practice, I have no clue.

[LuisDantas]

Yup. For comparison in The Great Power of the Chninkel the world is ruled over by three immortals constantly warring with each other and, as a result, they only have three cardinal directions.

Do not ask me how they can use that in practice, I have no clue.

Love that. {scrubbed}

[LuisDantas]

I think that's misreading Minrah's line. From space, there is pretty obviously no Eastern Continent (it's been noted before, incidentally, that the world within the rift does seem to have landmasses visible in all directions...) - she's just pointing out the oddity of there only being pantheons for three of the four cardinal directions, not implying that a geographical region that might conceivably worship Eastern Gods exists.

Have we seen any other images of the world beyond that in #639?

If not, I just don't see how we could say anything about the hidden half of the world's surface.

Even the placement of polar surface (and therefore of the rough direction of the planet's rotation axis) is an educated guess.

[Fyraltari]

Love that. {scrub the post, scrub the quote}

{scrubbed}

[Precure]

It looks consistent to me.

[hroþila]

Also shown here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html).
Yeah that's the thing V did :smalltongue:

[Smoutwortel]

Yup. For comparison in The Great Power of the Chninkel the world is ruled over by three immortals constantly warring with each other and, as a result, they only have three cardinal directions.

Do not ask me how they can use that in practice, I have no clue.

I would guess their "compasses" are triangle based and that they use contrary to lazy us all three cardinal directions to express more specific directions instead of our maximum of 2.
If this is the case, it could be argued that their system is mathematically cleaner, for it contains less axioms, although it is also harder to work with in practice, because of the extra variable.

You could even handle cardinal directions with uneven proportions with this although that becomes a nightmare for navigators pretty fast.

[Roland Itiative]

There being four cardinal directions, and the landmasses being named after these directions, does not require all cardinal directions to have a corresponding landmass. Using an example from another fictional world, the A Song of Ice and Fire world has continents with names based on West, East and South, but no North continent. On a real life example, the city I live in is divided in four regions, West, North, South and Downtown, with all the regions aside from the West one taking up the space that could have been called an East region, but didn't because of other cultural and geographical reasons.

So, in the OotS cosmology, since we know the pantheons being named after directions is not unique to this world, and there hasn't been an Eastern pantheon since the first world was made, the easiest assumption is that the world simply doesn't have an Eastern continent, with either no landmass far east from the center of a world atlas (which is already an arbitrary thing to begin with), or those landmasses being still part of the North and South continents for cultural reasons (as in, the lack of an Eastern pantheon).

[LuisDantas]

I feel that I am probably over-analyzing that specific fictional world (which I have not even read, after all)... but at first glance (and avoiding what I believe to be spoilers) if it is a world where there are three cardinal directions instead of four and somehow the presence of those three immortals is the cause for that difference, may it be because each direction points directly to one of those immortals?

Probably not. But it gives some wild ideas. All but motionless immortals, enormously influential yet at the same time tied to their locations in ways that might resemble a hive's queen bee... there is some exotic atmosphere to be found there.

Yeah, I should probably read the work at some point.

[The Patterner]

Wouldn't that conflict with "no making changes once we're finished with the world?"

Then again, the Dark One never agreed to that rule.

There is no rule that won't be superseded if everyone agrees is should be superseded.

Simply put, if the Dark one says he will help in exchange for a new eastern continent, then the dark one will get a new eastern continent.

[Fyraltari]

I feel that I am probably over-analyzing that specific fictional world (which I have not even read, after all)... but at first glance (and avoiding what I believe to be spoilers) if it is a world where there are three cardinal directions instead of four and somehow the presence of those three immortals is the cause for that difference, may it be because each direction points directly to one of those immortals? Probably not. But it gives some wild ideas. All but motionless immortals, enormously influential yet at the same time tied to their locations in ways that might resemble a hive's queen bee... there is some exotic atmosphere to be found there.

I mean, yes but also no? Each of them rule a domain in one of the three directions from where the story begins and it's implied that before they showed up people used the traditionnal four cardinal points, but they are completely ambulatory and meet together in person at the climax of book. The whole three directions thing is really more of a way to emphasize how much the three-way eternal war dominates everything.
Your idea sounds very cool, though.


Yeah, I should probably read the work at some point.

You should, it's really good.

Edit: Although, like I said in my scrubbed out post, it is very light on worldbuilding.

[DirePorcupine]

I want to say the Eastern pantheon, before it was destroyed by the snarl, was based on the real world Egyptian Pantheon. I think I saw it in a doodle. Could be wrong.

[Fyraltari]

I want to say the Eastern pantheon, before it was destroyed by the snarl, was based on the real world Egyptian Pantheon. I think I saw it in a doodle. Could be wrong.

The names we know of the Eastern Pantheon are: Zeus, Ares, Hades, Poseidon, Demeter and Aphrodite.

[Mike Havran]

I want to say the Eastern pantheon, before it was destroyed by the snarl, was based on the real world Egyptian Pantheon. I think I saw it in a doodle. Could be wrong.You are. They are based on ancient Greek mythology.

[tomandtish]

The OotS world is round by the way. Explicitly shown at the end of HtPGHS and when V did that thing they did. Also shown in the story about the creation of the world back during the trial in Azure City.


Also shown here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html).


Have we seen any other images of the world beyond that in #639?

If not, I just don't see how we could say anything about the hidden half of the world's surface.

Even the placement of polar surface (and therefore of the rough direction of the planet's rotation axis) is an educated guess.

I'll point out that technically "round" and "flat" are not mutually exclusive. We have a picture of a circle, not a globe. (Personally I believe it's a globe).

[Mike Havran]

I'll point out that technically "round" and "flat" are not mutually exclusive. We have a picture of a circle, not a globe. (Personally I believe it's a globe). We have two pictures, in 639 and in GDGU, and they are not identical. Globe it is.

[Fyraltari]

We have two pictures, in 639 and in GDGU, and they are not identical. Globe it is.

I see your globe, and I raise you a cylinder.

[brian 333]

It is The Order of the Stick, rendered in a 2 dimensional medium. Therefore the best assumption is that the world is a disc, and that it has two surfaces with no edge.

[Peelee]

It is The Order of the Stick, rendered in a 2 dimensional medium. Therefore the best assumption is that the world is a disc, and that it has two surfaces with no edge.

Two surfaces with no edge seems like it would be a hollow sphere. That way you have the inside and the outside.

[brian 333]

Two surfaces with no edge seems like it would be a Hollywood r sphere. That way you have the inside and the outside.

If it can be accurately modeled in a two dimensional model, I'm fine with that as a fansplanation, but it has to appear in comic to be canon. So far I have seen only a flat circle and a flat circle with vector lines going around the edge. Even the 'planet in the rift' was a simple disc.

Please don't ask for further defense of this premise because the rubber band wrapped around this propeller is already pretty tight!

[Ruck]

Bandana's navigational instructions here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1186.html) seem to suggest a globe, or at least something that converges to a point in some way.

[Laurentio III]

Bandana's navigational instructions here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1186.html) seem to suggest a globe, or at least something that converges to a point in some way.
Could be flat round Earth. But a globe is more likely, as most precedent worlds were globes.

[Ruck]

Could be flat round Earth. But a globe is more likely, as most precedent worlds were globes.

Well, if you got to the North Pole on a flat round planet, wouldn't it just be the edge, rather than something on which you could keep going on your path but you'd be going south?

[Fyraltari]

Well, if you got to the North Pole on a flat round planet, wouldn't it just be the edge, rather than something on which you could keep going on your path but you'd be going south?

Flat Earth models isually present the North Pole as the axle and the South as the edge.

[Ruck]

Flat Earth models isually present the North Pole as the axle and the South as the edge.

I'm having a hard time picturing how this is supposed to work, but I can't tell if that's a me problem or a flat earth theory problem.

[Fyraltari]

I'm having a hard time picturing how this is supposed to work, but I can't tell if that's a me problem or a flat earth theory problem.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/UN_emblem_blue.svg/1280px-UN_emblem_blue.svg.png

[Ruck]

Ah, so in this model the North Pole is in the center?

[Fyraltari]

Ah, so in this model the North Pole is in the center?

Yes, that's it.

[Peelee]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/UN_emblem_blue.svg/1280px-UN_emblem_blue.svg.png

It's a ridiculous logo, they don't even depict the ice wall around the edge.

[Fyraltari]

It's a ridiculous logo, they don't even depict the ice wall around the edge.

Nah it does, it just that everybody else keeps forgetting about the other four concentric ice walls as well as the eight ice spokes between them that divide the oceans to relieve pressure.

It's all simple physics, though.

[RickDaily12]

Is it all that farfetched to imagine three continents where you could divide the planet into three equal thirds, where the Western part extends a bit into what you'd consider a more "north" or "south" part of the globe, but then would converge with the other North and South thirds toward the global Equator where it would just be the North and South thirds touching each other on the eastern part of the globe?

To me, this would make a bit more sense, because if "the East" were really just split between the Northern and Southern continents in this way, it would make a lot more sense as to why the denizens of the OOTSverse wouldn't have a lot more questions about who rules over the East if it were equally shared in this way. This also wouldn't necessitate the Eastern Hemisphere to be nothing but ocean; but even if there were a significant amount of ocean, if the North and South split that region equally, then this would still give intelligent aquatic life a clear god to worship between the Northern and Southern pantheons based on where along the oceans they hatched from.

[brian 333]

When the Eastern Gods were destroyed, everything created by their quiddity was also destroyed, which would include the continent they were on.

That continent, ever so many million worlds ago, is long gone and has not been recreated, so far as we know. But maybe I'm wrong, and a lone lost continent exists on the far side of the world. It still wouldn't be the continent of the Eastern Gods because they were long gone by the time the current world was built.

[InvisibleBison]

When the Eastern Gods were destroyed, everything created by their quiddity was also destroyed, which would include the continent they were on.

If this was the case, the Snarl would no longer exist.

[brian 333]

If this was the case, the Snarl would no longer exist.

Unless The Snarl ripped those red threads out of the Eastern Pantheon's hands.

[Fyraltari]

When the Eastern Gods were destroyed, everything created by their quiddity was also destroyed, which would include the continent they were on.

That continent, ever so many million worlds ago, is long gone and has not been recreated, so far as we know. But maybe I'm wrong, and a lone lost continent exists on the far side of the world. It still wouldn't be the continent of the Eastern Gods because they were long gone by the time the current world was built.

The division of the world between the pantheons came after the Snarl destroyed Zeus' clan. They are only called "The Eastern Gods" retroactively. There were never an Eastern Continent for them to rule over on any of the worlds.

[Metastachydium]

The division of the world between the pantheons came after the Snarl destroyed Zeus' clan. They are only called "The Eastern Gods" retroactively. There were never an Eastern Continent for them to rule over on any of the worlds.

I mean, we don't know that; there could have been an Eastern Continent on the First World, but there's no reason why that feature should have been retained in subsequent iterations.

[Eric the White]

Wouldn't that conflict with "no making changes once we're finished with the world?"

Then again, the Dark One never agreed to that rule.

We could get the Brotherhood of Stone and a bunch of druids to literally make them a new island. Or more likely, the gods rules are going to have to be adapted and agreed to by whole group due to the existence of a whole new pantheon. If all of the gods agree, then creating a new island shouldn't be a big deal.

[brian 333]

The Creed of Stone got vamped. But, hey, that may only be the Firmament Chapter, and others are out there to do it.

How big of a continent could an epic spell produce?

And now I have an image of a volcanic continent, like a mega Kilauea, with lava rivers, lava fountains, and caldera lakes everywhere and hordes of goblinoids warring against each other.

Damn, another campaign setting.

[Mike Havran]

How big of a continent could an epic spell produce?
Hard to say, but even a small island (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/raiseIsland.htm) has a pretty high DC check.

[InvisibleBison]

How big of a continent could an epic spell produce?

As always with epic spellcasting, the answer is "How many spellcasting outsiders do you want to recruit to assist you?" The example epic spell raise island creates a 200-foot wide island, but there's no reason why you couldn't make a spell that creates a larger island and recruit additional casters to mitigate the DC as low as you like.

[Ruck]

When the Eastern Gods were destroyed, everything created by their quiddity was also destroyed, which would include the continent they were on.

Eh? This doesn't really follow with anything we know. All we know is that the Snarl attacked and killed the Eastern Pantheon, then destroyed the world (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html), while the other gods hid away from it. There's nothing about the Eastern continent being destroyed when the Snarl killed the Eastern gods.

[brian 333]

Eh? This doesn't really follow with anything we know. All we know is that the Snarl attacked and killed the Eastern Pantheon, then destroyed the world (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html), while the other gods hid away from it. There's nothing about the Eastern continent being destroyed when the Snarl killed the Eastern gods.

If the whole world is destroyed, the continents go with it. In subsequent world's without an Easter Pantheon, why would anyone build an Eastern Continent?

[InvisibleBison]

If the whole world is destroyed, the continents go with it. In subsequent world's without an Easter Pantheon, why would anyone build an Eastern Continent?

Because for the last 700,000 worlds there was nothing but a big ocean to the east of the main continent, and <insert god here> has gotten bored of that.

[Emanick]

If the whole world is destroyed, the continents go with it. In subsequent world's without an Easter Pantheon, why would anyone build an Eastern Continent?

A fair question - but if you ask it, you then have to ask yourself why the absence of a Halloween Pantheon, a Thanksgiving Pantheon, or, heck, a Valentine's Day Pantheon isn't necessarily relevant to the geography of the worlds the gods weave. And at that point, where does it end?

[brian 333]

A fair question - but if you ask it, you then have to ask yourself why the absence of a Halloween Pantheon, a Thanksgiving Pantheon, or, heck, a Valentine's Day Pantheon isn't necessarily relevant to the geography of the worlds the gods weave. And at that point, where does it end?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your point. The pantheons as we know them have been discribed relative to the cardinal points of a compass. One of the four points of that compass is missing, and therefore the non-existent deities who would have formed the Eastern pantheon did not build an Eastern continent in this world..

So, obviously and of course other non-existent pantheons also did not create continents.

As for Holiday-themed pantheons, I'm sure in all the many tries it's been done at least once. Can you see Odin as Father Christmas? I'm guessing the Eastern pantheon would have had Summer, but alas, there are no good Midsummer holidays any more.

[Emanick]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your point. The pantheons as we know them have been discribed relative to the cardinal points of a compass. One of the four points of that compass is missing, and therefore the non-existent deities who would have formed the Eastern pantheon did not build an Eastern continent in this world..

So, obviously and of course other non-existent pantheons also did not create continents.

As for Holiday-themed pantheons, I'm sure in all the many tries it's been done at least once. Can you see Odin as Father Christmas? I'm guessing the Eastern pantheon would have had Summer, but alas, there are no good Midsummer holidays any more.

It was a joke about your typo. :smalltongue:

[brian 333]

D'oh! I missed the typo. Now I'll have to look for it so I can get the joke!

[brian 333]

Okay, so in the past world Rabbit was the chief deity of the Easter Pantheon. That's now canon.

[Fyraltari]

I mean, we don't know that; there could have been an Eastern Continent on the First World, but there's no reason why that feature should have been retained in subsequent iterations.

Shojo said: "The gods were divided, as they are today, into several pantheons. We know them now by the regions of the world that worship them." (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html)
Emphasis mine.

And Redcloak's story goes (after the capture of the Snarl):
Redcloak: When the creation was done, the leader of the southern Gods, Dragon, proposed an agreement between the three groups.
Dragon: we all know what happens should we ever come into conflict over how to run this new world. I therefore suggest that each of our three panthneons be granted special dominion over one-third of this planet, to guid as we see fit.

So, it seems pretty clear to me that the division of the world into strict areas of influence per pantheon started on world #0000000000000000002.

[Metastachydium]

Because for the last 700,000 worlds there was nothing but a big ocean to the east of the main continent, and <insert god here> has gotten bored of that.

We are all looking at you, Njord.


Shojo said: "The gods were divided, as they are today, into several pantheons. We know them now by the regions of the world that worship them." (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html)
Emphasis mine.

And Redcloak's story goes (after the capture of the Snarl):
Redcloak: When the creation was done, the leader of the southern Gods, Dragon, proposed an agreement between the three groups.
Dragon: we all know what happens should we ever come into conflict over how to run this new world. I therefore suggest that each of our three panthneons be granted special dominion over one-third of this planet, to guid as we see fit.

So, it seems pretty clear to me that the division of the world into strict areas of influence per pantheon started on world #0000000000000000002.

Well, fair enough. One can't fight canon!

[Peelee]

Well, fair enough. One can't fight canon!

Canonically, Shojo was not being 100% accurate and he can be off on the details (as he already has been).

[Fyraltari]

Canonically, Shojo was not being 100% accurate and he can be off on the details (as he already has been).

Sure, but even in crayons, if a character (Dragon, here) is shown to say something, I think it best to assume that it is exactly what they said, as so far crayon scenes were only ever shown to lack context, not be untrue on anything shown.

[Peelee]

Sure, but even in crayons, if a character (Dragon, here) is shown to say something, I think it best to assume that it is exactly what they said, as so far crayon scenes were only ever shown to lack context, not be untrue on anything shown.

Eh, I don't agree. Its safe to assume the broad strokes are probably not babpy correct but I'm not going to rely on specific, exacting wording at all in crayon.

[Fyraltari]

Eh, I don't agree. Its safe to assume the broad strokes are probably not babpy correct but I'm not going to rely on specific, exacting wording at all in crayon.

But it's not "specific, exacting wording", it's an entire panel dedicated to explaining the gods came up with the one-pantheon-one-continent system in response to the Snarl's rampage as one of the preventive measures we've seen them abide by in the last two books.

[Peelee]

But it's not "specific, exacting wording", it's an entire panel dedicated to explaining the gods came up with the one-pantheon-one-continent system in response to the Snarl's rampage as one of the preventive measures we've seen them abide by in the last two books.

You're basing everything on the word of a guy who wasn't there, claiming knowledge that is explicitly told to us to not be perfectly accurate.

Id call that "specific, exacting wording".

So would the Eastern demigods, they said "things claimed to be said by us by people who did not hear it and are already wrong about which world they are on to start with probably shouldn't be assumed to be perfectly accurate in all ways until shown otherwise".

[Fyraltari]

You're basing everything on the word of a guy who wasn't there, claiming knowledge that is explicitly told to us to not be perfectly accurate.

Id call that "specific, exacting wording"

I think the word you're looking for is hearsay, this has nothing to do with specific and/or exact language.

Again, every time we've been shown crayons they were factually correct, only lacking context. And the parts that were wrong in Shojo's story were in Shojo's narration not in the parts actually drawn. When characters lie or are wrong, we aren't "shown the lie" as in Rashomon.

At least, so far.

[Peelee]

I think the word you're looking for is hearsay, this has nothing to do with specific and/or exact language.

Again, every time we've been shown crayons they were factually correct, only lacking context. And the parts that were wrong in Shojo's story were in Shojo's narration not in the parts actually drawn. When characters lie or are wrong, we aren't "shown the lie" as in Rashomon.

At least, so far.

The world they are in not being the second world seems like is more "factually incorrect" than "lacking context". As in, entirely the former and not at all the latter.

[Fyraltari]

The world they are in not being the second world seems like is more "factually incorrect" than "lacking context". As in, entirely the former and not at all the latter.

Yes it is. Everything Redcloak and Shojo said happened happened. A second world was created to entrap the Snarl and the Gods made new covenants too ensure no new Snarl would see the light. The world the characters live on is indeed a prison for the Snarl under this covenant. There just lacks the crucial information that the second world was destroyed too and a whole lot of other worlds were build and destroyed before the current one.
This world being the second isn't what matters to Shojo, Redcloak and their respective audience, what matters is that it isn't the first and that the entity that destroyed the first may destroy the current one as well. This isn't belied by the new information, it just adds a whole lot of context. Hell, The Secret Lore of the Sapphier Guard never even says outrigjt that the current world is the second one. Everybody just assumed.
And again, I think it's worth making a distinction between what Shojo, Redcloak or Sigdi say in the narration boxes and what is actually shown in panel in crayons.


And, frankly, I trouble to see why and how it would be revealed that there already existed a pantheonic divide of the world before the Snarl, how that would impact the story and how such false information would come to be.

[Ruck]

If the whole world is destroyed, the continents go with it. In subsequent world's without an Easter Pantheon, why would anyone build an Eastern Continent?

Yeah, but that's a much more general observation than what you said originally:


When the Eastern Gods were destroyed, everything created by their quiddity was also destroyed

We don't even really have evidence that the above is true.

[Metastachydium]

When the Eastern Gods were destroyed, everything created by their quiddity was also destroyed


We don't even really have evidence that the above is true.

I mean, we kind of do. According to Thor nothing other than the Snarl has their quiddity in it anymore (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1141.html), so everything else that had it was canonically destroyed.

[InvisibleBison]

I mean, we kind of do. According to Thor nothing other than the Snarl has their quiddity in it anymore (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1141.html), so everything else that had it was canonically destroyed.

We have evidence that everything the Eastern Gods created was destroyed, but there's no evidence that it was destroyed when the Eastern Gods were destroyed. It may have lasted until the Snarl finished destroying the first world.

[Metastachydium]

We have evidence that everything the Eastern Gods created was destroyed, but there's no evidence that it was destroyed when the Eastern Gods were destroyed. It may have lasted until the Snarl finished destroying the first world.

Ah, I see! What's called to question is that the two destructions occured simultaneously of which we indeed don't have a direct confirmation; still, given that the Easterners and the first world were undone within the same 27 minutes long interval, in practice, the distinction is virtually meaningless.

[Tzardok]

Ah, I see! What's called to question is that the two destructions occured simultaneously of which we indeed don't have a direct confirmation; still, given that the Easterners and the first world were undone within the same 27 minutes long interval, in practice, the distinction is virtually meaningless.

I think the problem is more that the original claim ("When the Eastern Pantheon was destroyed, everything with their quidditiy was also destroyed.") makes it sound like a causation instead of a correlation.

[pearl jam]

It seems to me that the Snarl wiping out the Eastern Pantheon is the precipitating event that leads to the unmaking of the first world which was the only world in which they participated in creating. It is, perhaps, extremely precise to acknowledge that the destruction of that world did not occur precisely at that moment and that the remaining gods could possibly have chosen another course of action, but I also think that it's safe to say that, had the Snarl not destroyed the Eastern pantheon, the gods would not have destroyed the first world when they did. Therefore I think it's appropriate to say there is a causal relationship between the two events, not just a correlation.

[Tzardok]

The Snarl destroyed the first world, not the gods. And even if the gods were the responsible ones, there's a difference between indirect "Oh god, Zeus is dead! Let's destroy everything he made." causation and direct "Zeus died, so everything he made winked out automatically." causation, y'know?

[Ruck]

We have evidence that everything the Eastern Gods created was destroyed, but there's no evidence that it was destroyed when the Eastern Gods were destroyed. It may have lasted until the Snarl finished destroying the first world.


I think the problem is more that the original claim ("When the Eastern Pantheon was destroyed, everything with their quidditiy was also destroyed.") makes it sound like a causation instead of a correlation.

Yes, this gets at the point I was trying to make. Much better articulated than I did.

[pearl jam]

The Snarl destroyed the first world, not the gods. And even if the gods were the responsible ones, there's a difference between indirect "Oh god, Zeus is dead! Let's destroy everything he made." causation and direct "Zeus died, so everything he made winked out automatically." causation, y'know?


Yes, and as our resident flower has stated, while there could be a situation where that distinction is relevant, it's not really relevant to the discussion at hand.



Ah, I see! What's called to question is that the two destructions occured simultaneously of which we indeed don't have a direct confirmation; still, given that the Easterners and the first world were undone within the same 27 minutes long interval, in practice, the distinction is virtually meaningless.

[Smoutwortel]

Canonically, Shojo was not being 100% accurate and he can be off on the details (as he already has been).
That just means the giant can fight canon. For mere mortals like us canon has the final say unless it actively provides conflicting options.

[Peelee]

That just means the giant can fight canon. For mere mortals like us canon has the final say unless it actively provides conflicting options.

For mere mortals like us, the canon is "this is a personal account that may be biased, incomplete, or incorrect".