Reborn vs Dhampir

[Skrum]

Reborn Deathless Nature
You have escaped death, a fact represented by the following benefits:
You have advantage on saving throws against disease and being poisoned, and you have resistance to poison damage.
You have advantage on death saving throws.
You don’t need to eat, drink, or breathe.
You don’t need to sleep, and magic can’t put you to sleep. You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in an inactive, motionless state, during which you retain consciousness.

Dhampir Deathless Nature
You don’t need to breathe.

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Why. Why is this. Why are Dhampir so narratively cool, but WotC decided that needed to be corrected by making them mechanically terrible

[Amnestic]

It's like that because the Dhampir put their 'budget' for features elsewhere.

They both get ancestral legacy.
Dhampir get 35ft speed, Reborn get 30ft.
Dhampir get a bite, spider climb, and darkvision. Reborn get Knowledge from a Past Life.

I'd put Vampiric Bite as the 'equal' to knowledge from a past life, since they both can boost ability checks; KfaPL gives you more choice as to when you make use of it, but Bite is more flexible (lets you heal, can also apply to attack rolls, applies to ALL ability checks, not just skill ones).

Which means the Reborn deathless nature is vs. +5ft move speed, spider climb, and darkvision. Which is better? It might depend on your campaign, but personally I think they're pretty close. My personal preference is dhampir, but there'll definitely be games or situations where Reborn is the superior choice.

[Skrum]

It's like that because the Dhampir put their 'budget' for features elsewhere.

They both get ancestral legacy.
Dhampir get 35ft speed, Reborn get 30ft.
Dhampir get a bite, spider climb, and darkvision. Reborn get Knowledge from a Past Life.

I'd put Vampiric Bite as the 'equal' to knowledge from a past life, since they both can boost ability checks; KfaPL gives you more choice as to when you make use of it, but Bite is more flexible (lets you heal, can also apply to attack rolls, applies to ALL ability checks, not just skill ones).

Which means the Reborn deathless nature is vs. +5ft move speed, spider climb, and darkvision. Which is better? It might depend on your campaign, but personally I think they're pretty close. My personal preference is dhampir, but there'll definitely be games or situations where Reborn is the superior choice.

Spider Climb is a 2nd level spell that's of less and less value as the game goes on. The 5 ft of extra movement is notable, but hardly exceptional. KoaPL is a unique feature that's good throughout. Bite is....well it's not very good. Far worse than it looks.

It just kills me that the abilities have the same name, but one is really good and actually matches the lore of the characters.

[Amnestic]

Spider Climb is a 2nd level spell that's of less and less value as the game goes on.

One that takes concentration, yes. Getting a 2nd level spell, permanently active, as a racial feature is "pretty solid" I would say. It's not as flexible as flight, but in some environments it can be just as good for both fighting and stealth - people never look up.

I had disagree on bite being worse than it looks. You also skipped over darkvision, which Reborn do not have.

I can understand being annoyed that two features with the same name are so radically different, but taking the two races as a whole they are very close in power level in my eyes. I certainly don't think dhampir are "mechanically terrible" by any stretch.

[Rukelnikov]

As Amnestic said, the "power budget" of the reborn is mostly spent on that feature, its almost the only thing they get, while the Dhampir gets a lot more goodies.

IMO the Dhamphir enables much more things mechanically, but the Reborn gets more of the "being cool" features.

[Skrum]

Dark vision is quite meaningful. Dhampir also get 2 skill choices (unless using the ancestral legacy thing).

Ok I'm convinced. Dhampir does get enough goodies. Still, i would like their Deathless feature to mean a little more. I've taken to calling them vampire-touched in game because they're far more alive than dead.

[IsaacsAlterEgo]

It'd be nice if Dhampir's deathless nature specified you could sate your specific hunger (blood, psychic energy, etc.) to bypass your need for food/water. It seems like right now you can pick a hunger but there's no real reason to care about it or have it come up.

[JackPhoenix]

Real vampires are not exempt from eating and sleeping either, why should their non-undead spawn be? They can also be poisoned just fine, and don't have any special defenses against diseases, being put asleep, or death saves.

[Skrum]

Real vampires are not exempt from eating and sleeping either, why should their non-undead spawn be? They can also be poisoned just fine, and don't have any special defenses against diseases, being put asleep, or death saves.

Yeah that too blows my mind.

Even though I haven't played it in 10 years, my mind is in 3e mode. Creatures have templates, and templates mean they have X Y Z abilities. Vampires are undead, ergo....

[Greywander]

Yup, almost every undead has certain traits, like not needing to eat, drink, breath, or sleep, or being immune to poison and exhaustion. You can count the exceptions on one hand, and vampires are one of those exceptions.

Personally, I just like spiderclimb as a feature. I think it's more interesting than flight, since it still has some limitations, but there's still a huge overlap. I do wish the bite was better; it almost seems deliberately engineered to not synergize with anything.

If you want to game the system, take lizardfolk as your previous race to basically get a swim speed for free. This works nicely on a dhampir since being able to both swim and climb, and not needing to breathe, allows you to go a lot of places.