[3.5] Rat King

[Thurbane]

Need help with a monster concept.

I'm looking for a large rat-like humanoid (humanoid in form, not necessarily by type) that can transform into swarms of rats.

I'm trying to achieve this by 3.5 RAW before looking at homebrew or 3rd party options.

Current idea was Half-Gorristro Nezumi Gravetouched Ghoul Swarm Shifter. Problem there is I didn't really want the creature to be undead.

So, in essence, I'm looking for a 3.5 RAW legal large rat-like humanoid that can turn into rat swarms. If possible, like to avoid Dragon/Dungeon mag, and not have gear/item based solutions.

It's a monster/NPC build, so LA does not matter.

Cheers - T

https://i.imgur.com/Ff2z0cH.jpg

[Gruftzwerg]

Have a look at my Master of Dragonfire Flies (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?639300-Master-of-Dragonfire-Flies)build.

It's a full swarm themed build that has access to Humanoid Shape and thus can easily shape into a Nezumi all day long.

Note that I've found 2 more fitting feats that are not mentioned in the build. (The last feat in the build is irrelevant and you could take a flaw to get both feats).

Aberration Blood (segmented eyes) + Scavenging Gullet

The first one just adds visual fluff, the second one lets you consume anything that is organic. Combined with the "Eat or Die" ability, you can now eat anything that comes across and leave nothing but a dead desert behind you.

The build offers any kind or swarm fluff you can imagine. I hope you enjoy it.

edit: a fitting flaw would be Murky Eyed.

[Maat Mons]

Dragon magazine had an Urban Druid that could Wild Shape into swarms.

[Tzardok]

Is there a specific reason you can't just, as a DM, declare that you put Swarm Shifter on something non-undead? I mean, you already put Gravetouched Ghoul on an invalid creature (Half-Goristros are outsiders), so if it's already invalid, why not cut out the middleman?

[Metastachydium]

It's easy enough.
Be a nezumi.
Gain Large size.
Take 12+ druid levels with the City-Shape ACFCityscape.
Go to town.

[afroakuma]

Is there a specific reason you can't just, as a DM, declare that you put Swarm Shifter on something non-undead? I mean, you already put Gravetouched Ghoul on an invalid creature (Half-Goristros are outsiders), so if it's already invalid, why not cut out the middleman?

This would be my solution. I mean homebrew would be my solution but you banned homebrew, and I think applying a template to an invalid target is much less of a breach of RAW, especially given Wizards did it themselves on their site a few times.

[Telonius]

Found a Prestige Class that could fit: Vermin Keeper, from Underdark (just Underdark, not Drow of the). Page 44. 10th-level ability, he turns into a swarm of vermin. The Prestige class is Druid-centric (requires Wild Shape, some skills that Druids get, and one feat tax in Iron Will), and is full casting.

Vermin Lord from BOVD is a similar class. Its capstone doesn't have him turn into a swarm, exactly, but he can build a "hive mind" of existing vermin in the area. (Much less powerful class, not full casting).

[pabelfly]

Well the first half of the solution is to take anthropomorphic rat as your base race. A few people have detailed the second part of the solution, so pick what works best for your intended encounter level.

[Gruftzwerg]

Vermin Lord from BOVD is a similar class. Its capstone doesn't have him turn into a swarm, exactly, but he can build a "hive mind" of existing vermin in the area. (Much less powerful class, not full casting).

Sorry but no, Vermin Lord is a totally OP prc that can give you epic spellcasting via hivemind if done right.
Have a look at my BORG Queen (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?643998)as example.

[Soranar]

That's simple enough

Anthropomorphic rat (2 racial HD) found in savage species

druid 5 or wildshape ranger 5

Vermin Keeper 10 (found in underdark)

level 10 ability is to transform into a vermin swarm

It also gets a vermin companion that's pretty powerful ( the giant stage beetle gets really powerful stats)

should have read the post more carefully, those two have been suggested already

[Metastachydium]

(Quick note to everyone who's posted after Afro: anthropomorphic rats are small, making the medium nezumi a better candidate and rats are not vermin, and therefore nor are rat swarms swarms of vermin. I stand by my own proposal (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25513947&postcount=5).)

[Troacctid]

Nezumi vampire, using the swarmform vampire variant from Libris Mortis.

[loky1109]

Vermin Lord from BOVD is a similar class. Its capstone doesn't have him turn into a swarm, exactly, but he can build a "hive mind" of existing vermin in the area. (Much less powerful class, not full casting).
I see you you underestimate hive mind Look here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25441612&postcount=24), for example (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25441614&postcount=25).
Yeah, Vermin Lord don't receive stat bonuses, "only" spellcasting.

[ShurikVch]

Note: some of lycanthropes in Ravenloft got "salient powers"

Natural lycanthropes are most likely to have such powers, but they occasionally pass them to their afflicted progeny. It is rare for any lycanthrope to have more than one of these powers, and it is almost unheard of for one to have more than three.
Those powers are:
Animal Command (Su) - as Rebuke/Command Undead of 12th-level evil Cleric, but for animals of the lycanthrope's animal form
Energy Resistance (Ex) - 20, for one particular type of energy; in animal or hybrid form
Fast Healing (Ex) - 5; in animal or hybrid form; if taken second time, gives fast healing 5 in humanoid form
Frightful Howl (Su) - as Frightful Moan (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghost.htm), but howl
Jump (Ex) - as the spell (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/jump.htm) (always "on"); in animal or hybrid form
Pass without Trace (Su) - as the spell (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/passWithoutTrace.htm) (always "on"); in animal or hybrid form
Progeny Control (Su) - Only natural lycanthrope can have this power. When the lycanthrope afflicts another creature with lycanthropy, the afflicted lycanthrope is under the command of the progenitor, as if the progeny were an animal affected by lycanthropic empathy. This control lasts only while the progeny is in animal or hybrid form. Taking this ability a second time enables the lycanthrope to trigger its progeny's form changes at will.
Silence (Su) - always take 10 on Move Silently - unless chose not to
Spell Resistance (Ex) - 20; in all forms
Spider Climb (Su) - as the spell (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spiderClimb.htm) (always "on"); in hybrid form only

In addition, Ravenloft have Aberrant Wererats. They have their own list of salient powers.
Energy Resistance, Fast Healing, Jump, Spider Climb are available to them too, but besides those:
Bilious Breath (Ex) - as stinking cloud, but area is 15' sphere centered on the wererat (which is immune to the effect); duration is half of HD + Con mod; as a standard action; 3/day
Garbage Gorger (Ex) as if foodstuff supply matter for encounter mob
Greasy Secretions (Ex) - as area effect of grease, but duration is 2d6 hours (unless washed of with alcohol); as a full-round action; uses per day equal half of Con score; in hybrid form only; provokes AoO
Ooze Host (Ex) - a Gray Ooze (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ooze.htm#grayOoze) lives in the wererat's digestive tract (the wererat is immune to its effects). As a standard action, hybrid-form wererat can barf out that ooze into any adjacent space; opponent occupying the space must make Ref save or be grappled. Wererat have no further control on the ooze, but can lap the ooze back up (full-round, AoO), which it accepts peacefully. If ooze is destroyed, new one would be spawned in 3d4 weeks.
Quill Fur (Ex) - +4 natural AC; opponents who're trying to grapple the wererat must make Ref save every turn ore suffer 1d4 piercing damage; wererat can use quills to do 1d6 piercing damage as a grapple attack
Searing Boils (Ex) - adjacent opponents who successfully attacked the wererat must make Ref save or suffer 1d6 acid damage; grappling opponents must make that save with -4 penalty at the beginning of their action
Typhoid Rat (Ex) - wererat's bite attack inflicts one of diseases from the list (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#disease) (Fort save: "normal" DC + wererat's Con mod)
Venomous Bite (Ex) - 1d4/2d4 damage to the lowest ability score

[Thurbane]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

Sadly, as I suspected, most RAW solutions involved quite a lot of class levels.

Also, not sure if I made this clear, but the base humanoid form should be large, or maybe even huge if possible.


Is there a specific reason you can't just, as a DM, declare that you put Swarm Shifter on something non-undead? I mean, you already put Gravetouched Ghoul on an invalid creature (Half-Goristros are outsiders), so if it's already invalid, why not cut out the middleman?

I was sure there was a clause somewhere in Libris Mortis that Doresain can override the usual type restrictions for the Gravetouched Ghoul template, but I'm struggling to find it now.

Here we go:


page 17, under Doresain's own description (Herald & Allies):

"Doresain often sends a gravetouched ghoul 13th-level barbarian as his herald. His planar allies are gravetouched ghoul succubus demons, gravetouched ghoul erinyes devils, and gravetouched ghoul ice devils. Doresain has the power to add the gravetouched ghoul template (see page 103) to creatures to which the template is normally not applicable."

As a DM, I always search for RAW solutions before home-brew. I would like to consider most of my NPCs and monsters eligible for entry into the various forum competitions. Just a personal quirk of mine.


Nezumi vampire, using the swarmform vampire variant from Libris Mortis.

Trying to avoid undead, if at all possible.

[ShurikVch]

Worm That Walks (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/wormThatWalks.htm) - with vermins disguised (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/disguise.htm) as rats?

[afroakuma]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

Sadly, as I suspected, most RAW solutions involved quite a lot of class levels.

If you'd like something homebrewed, just let me know and give me a target CR and any other details, I'd be happy to do it for you.

[Doctor Despair]

Dragon magazine had an Urban Druid that could Wild Shape into swarms.

Can Urban Druid become a swarm? I wasn't aware that was on the list.

Also of note: the City-Shape ACF for druids in Cityscape. Allows you to become a swarm of rats at druid level 12.

In terms of base race: have you considered Hengeyokai? It's 3.0 (dragon mag updated them to be humanoids and no LA as shapeshifter became a subtype instead of a type), but there's literally a stat'd rat humanoid right there that can turn into a singular rat until, at druid level 12, it can wildshape into a swarm of rats instead.

[Maat Mons]

No, I was confusing it with the Cityscape ACF.

[Thurbane]

If you'd like something homebrewed, just let me know and give me a target CR and any other details, I'd be happy to do it for you.

Well, if you'd like to take a stab at it, I would certainly be appreciative of your efforts.

Thinking something like a large sized Monstrous Humanoid/Magic Beast, sitting around CR 6 or 7 (so I can load class levels on it if I want), good physical scores, and also not horrible mental scores so it can be a leader of sorts to weaker races. And obviously the ability to split/transforms into one or more rat swarms...

[Tzardok]

T

I was sure there was a clause somewhere in Libris Mortis that Doresain can override the usual type restrictions for the Gravetouched Ghoul template, but I'm struggling to find it now.

Here we go:



Sure, but to me that falls under "GM's decision to put a template on an invalid target because it fits flavourfully". Y'know, like I suggested. :smallwink:

[afroakuma]

Well, if you'd like to take a stab at it, I would certainly be appreciative of your efforts.

Thinking something like a large sized Monstrous Humanoid/Magic Beast, sitting around CR 6 or 7 (so I can load class levels on it if I want), good physical scores, and also not horrible mental scores so it can be a leader of sorts to weaker races. And obviously the ability to split/transforms into one or more rat swarms...

I think that can be accommodated. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?625284-Steel-Men-and-other-strange-creatures-(3-5-PEACH)&p=25515102#post25515102)

Let me know if there's anything you would like tweaked, I just drafted this together.

[ShurikVch]

I have one more idea: Planar Exchange spell line!

When you cast this spell, you call a celestial brown bear (MM 269), celestial griffon (MM 139), fiendish dire ape (MM 62), or fiendish tiger (MM 281), at your option, to your precise location. At the same instant, you are transported to that creature's home plane, where you exist in stasis for the duration of the spell. To a casual observer, it appears that you have transformed into the called creature (though an onlooker who makes a DC 25 Spot check notices the slight gap in time between your disappearance and the creature's appearance). If the called creature would not fit in the place you occupied when you cast the spell, the spell fails. If the called creature is slain, you take 2d6 points of damage, the spell ends, and you are returned to your origin plane in the space last occupied by the called creature.
Cranium Rats are extraplanar!
Make Cranium Rat Swarm a creature which would appear: Lesser Pack for Lesser Planar Exchange, Average Pack for Planar Exchange, and Greater Pack - for Greater Planar Exchange
So, how about it?

[Thurbane]

I think that can be accommodated. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?625284-Steel-Men-and-other-strange-creatures-(3-5-PEACH)&p=25515102#post25515102)

Let me know if there's anything you would like tweaked, I just drafted this together.

Top notch stuff as usual, thanks for that.

[afroakuma]

Top notch stuff as usual, thanks for that.

Glad I could help. Happy party-murdering!