What if standard humans increased one stat by +2, in addition to +1 for the rest?

[Aquillion]

Standard humans are widely considered the worst race in the game; +1 to all your stats is worth less than it seems because at least some of them are going to be dump stats, and 5e classes tend to be SAD. On top of this, you get no features to make up for the lack of a +2 to your main stat.

Giving them a +2 to their main stat, while still getting +1 to all the others, makes them the best race statwise (excluding tricks with custom lineages, which not all DMs will allow.)

But since the gold standard nowadays is +2 to one stat, +1 to another, and some decent racial features, you're effectively trading your racial features to +1 to your less-important stats. I don't think that that's an overpowered trade.

Especially since unless you carefully point-buy around this some of those extra stat points are going to be wasted in places where they'll never round up (and it's probably not worth it to spend point-buy points to make your dump stats odd like that.)

What do other people think, though?

[Rukelnikov]

Standard humans are widely considered the worst race in the game; +1 to all your stats is worth less than it seems because at least some of them are going to be dump stats, and 5e classes tend to be SAD. On top of this, you get no features to make up for the lack of a +2 to your main stat.

Giving them a +2 to their main stat, while still getting +1 to all the others, makes them the best race statwise (excluding tricks with custom lineages, which not all DMs will allow.)

But since the gold standard nowadays is +2 to one stat, +1 to another, and some decent racial features, you're effectively trading your racial features to +1 to your less-important stats. I don't think that that's an overpowered trade.

Especially since unless you carefully point-buy around this some of those extra stat points are going to be wasted in places where they'll never round up (and it's probably not worth it to spend point-buy points to make your dump stats odd like that.)

What do other people think, though?

Make them +2 to all, its basically +5% succes chance to everything, and not an increase over other races for the main stat.

[Mastikator]

IMO standard humans are the worst because they completely lack interesting or unique race features. Ability score improvements aren't interesting. The sad thing is that humans will remain in purgatory probably for another decade since people are too afraid to just give humans interesting race features.

[Pex]

It's still nothing because everyone else gets +2/+1 and stuff. The last four +1s for human are still meaningless, even more so with Tasha floating ASIs. If it was +2 across the board that's worth a second look. 15 14 13 12 10 8 becomes 17 16 15 14 12 10. Lots of growth potential at ASI. Increase the 17 and 15 at level 4. Take two half feats for the 17 and 15 at levels 4 and 8. The 16 can become and 18. Take two feats at levels 4 and 8 then catch up at level 12. A fighter with a bonus ASI at level 6 has more options. If using Point Buy or dice roll +2 to everything is juicier.

[diplomancer]

It's still nothing because everyone else gets +2/+1 and stuff. The last four +1s for human are still meaningless, even more so with Tasha floating ASIs. If it was +2 across the board that's worth a second look. 15 14 13 12 10 8 becomes 17 16 15 14 12 10. Lots of growth potential at ASI. Increase the 17 and 15 at level 4. Take two half feats for the 17 and 15 at levels 4 and 8. The 16 can become and 18. Take two feats at levels 4 and 8 then catch up at level 12. A fighter with a bonus ASI at level 6 has more options. If using Point Buy or dice roll +2 to everything is juicier.

I think this is excessive, and still makes regular humans to be boring; perhaps even more boring, as now they don't have weak points; how about this: "you have 6 stat points to distribute between your stats; no stat can have more than a +2".

Most of the time, the optimal choice would be +2 to your main 3 stats, but two +2s and two +1s would be interesting for some multiclasses; and rolling for stats would create still other possible configurations.

Now they are still boring, but you get to make some decisions, which is fun.

[Amnestic]

Make them +2 to all, its basically +5% succes chance to everything, and not an increase over other races for the main stat.

This is what I've done.

They still don't get picked that much.

[MoiMagnus]

IMO standard humans are the worst because they completely lack interesting or unique race features. Ability score improvements aren't interesting. The sad thing is that humans will remain in purgatory probably for another decade since people are too afraid to just give humans interesting race features.

The fighter's "action surge" could easily be renamed as "adrenaline rush" and be a trait unique to humans.
But since classes get the "first pick" when it come to features and races have to wait further down the line, it's the fighter that got it.

[Zanthy1]

I'd echo just making it a flat +2 all around, but even then most people won't pick em. It is the cool actions that other races get that make them desirable. vhuman getting a feat gives those actions which is why its so solid. I've had great time playing standard human, but it is noticeably "easier" to play because there are less things I need to remember. I have a standard human who is a champion fighter that I keep as a prebuilt character for any players who want something quick and easy to jump in with. It has only been used once by a friend's younger brother, and he was only playing because he didn't want to sit in the corner on his phone the entire time. It was fine but for someone who is already reluctantly playing it didn't do much to capture their interest.

[Aquillion]

I mean, not everyone wants fancy tricks or flavor or a complex character. My opinion is that standard humans should be powerful but generic - something that anyone can take without much worrying about their build and it will just work.

+2 to every stat might work, although that's an awful lot. It amounts to, roughly:

+1 AC
+1 Initiative
+1 to all saves
+1 HP per level
+1 to all skill checks

...of course, chances are you were going to get at least some parts of this already, but it's still a lot. It's also a big enough bonus to become attractive to MAD characters, which perhaps it should be. Arcane Tricksters, Eldritch Knights, Monks and Paladins would all have some reason to at least consider it.

(Though I do feel that the recent tendency towards having classes that grant SLA-type spells also allow you to cast those spells using spell slots makes it really hard to justify taking a race that doesn't grant spells for a spellcaster. Generally it's +2 spells known or prepared, which is a huge deal.)

[RSP]

It amounts to, roughly:

+1 AC
+1 Initiative
+1 to all saves
+1 HP per level
+1 to all skill checks

Sounds like what a “decent all-round” character should have.

[False God]

IMO standard humans are the worst because they completely lack interesting or unique race features. Ability score improvements aren't interesting. The sad thing is that humans will remain in purgatory probably for another decade since people are too afraid to just give humans interesting race features.

I generally agree that the approach to make humans better is not to simply make them statistically superior, but to give them an interesting pool of abilities to choose from. Heck, maybe human's unique trait is that they can steal one 1st-level class feature of any other class. If "versatility" and "variety" are the human thing, then that is what they need. Bigger stats doesn't provide either.

[Cass]

Stats have diminishing importance based on the class Main stat is very important, secondary stat (Con) and for some classes tertiary stat are important but the rest are ribbon features. +2 to one stat and +1 to all others is pretty much the same as +2 +1 +1


But since the gold standard nowadays is +2 to one stat, +1 to another
You don't have to abide to the standard, exceptions are fine and there are already exceptions offical like the Mountain Dwarf or Half-Elf.

If you want to stick with already published examples you can take Human Variant and change it from +1 +1 + feat + ribbon features to +2 +2 + ribbon features. It makes it unique, statwise the strongest most of the time and the most flexible race.

[Skrum]

Up to me, I'd give humans +2 to one, +1 to the others, 2 skills of their choice, and an expertise.

Also, I'd give all characters a feat at first, and ban vhuman and TCL.

[animorte]

Also, I'd give all characters a feat at first, and ban vhuman and TCL.

From what I've gathered, this seems to be a fairly common thing, especially for those coming from 3.5e.

[Skrum]

From what I've gathered, this seems to be a fairly common thing, especially for those coming from 3.5e.

Seems like. Unfortunately, the group I play with is quite committed to RAW. It's for decent enough reasons, but still. Feat at first would be superior. Especially since the new backgrounds are trending in that direction.

[animorte]

Seems like. Unfortunately, the group I play with is quite committed to RAW. It's for decent enough reasons, but still. Feat at first would be superior. Especially since the new backgrounds are trending in that direction.

I noticed this as well. They essentially have attempted to replace the first level feat with backgrounds. Remember the only reason to play a Fighter was as a human, starting with 2 feats and then getting an absurd amount of feats?

[KorvinStarmast]

On the other hand, I had a std human cleric as my first character and he didn't have any problems besides dying alongside our dwarf paladin in combat during the night the dice went cold ...

[Pex]

I think this is excessive, and still makes regular humans to be boring; perhaps even more boring, as now they don't have weak points; how about this: "you have 6 stat points to distribute between your stats; no stat can have more than a +2".

Most of the time, the optimal choice would be +2 to your main 3 stats, but two +2s and two +1s would be interesting for some multiclasses; and rolling for stats would create still other possible configurations.

Now they are still boring, but you get to make some decisions, which is fun.

I'm not married to the idea. I'd still rather human gets +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 and interesting racial features that matter not just superfluous ribbons like everyone else. Floating +6 is fine. At +2/+2/+2 you can have 16 16 16 10 10 10 after buying three 14s and not wanting an 8. It might be worth letting a +3 and have human be the only race who can have an 18 at first level with point buy, acceptable only one +3 allowed.

[Rukelnikov]

This is what I've done.

They still don't get picked that much.


I'd echo just making it a flat +2 all around, but even then most people won't pick em.

Yeah, I wouldn't expect this to suddenly make them a standout pick, but at least some of the MADer builds could consider them (Monk, Paladin, Bladesinger, etc)


+2 to every stat might work, although that's an awful lot. It amounts to, roughly:

+1 AC
+1 Initiative
+1 to all saves
+1 HP per level
+1 to all skill checks

I don't think its that much, it doesn't have much flavor (which I count as a positive in this case), and I don't see that as mechanically too powerful, I'd call it ok, not too good, but not too bad either.


Up to me, I'd give humans +2 to one, +1 to the others, 2 skills of their choice, and an expertise.

Also, I'd give all characters a feat at first, and ban vhuman and TCL.

With current stuff, I'd just make Vhuman the standard human. From a world building perspective I don't like every human being an expert, and I don't mind every human having a feat since it serves the versatility theme while also promoting the diversity theme. The problem Vhuman has currently IMO is that Feats are too few and far between, with an extra feat at lvl 1 Vhuman isn't as interesting a choice as RAW Vhuman is. (each subsequent feat is least interesting than the last, and most build will be "online" with just 1 or 2)


On the other hand, I had a std human cleric as my first character and he didn't have any problems besides dying alongside our dwarf paladin in combat during the night
the dice went cold ...

I think the problem that is trying to be addressed here is that they are almost never picked.

[animorte]

Another thing to keep in mind is that us, as humans, generally take the opportunity in games to portray something else. The point for many people playing a game is to do something entirely different from what their real life has presented to them. The easiest and fastest way to do that is in character creation, any other race provides you blatant differences, some far stronger than others.

Granted there are also plenty of folks that like to replicate in the most optimized way possible something they are familiar with in life.

[Skrum]

With current stuff, I'd just make Vhuman the standard human. From a world building perspective I don't like every human being an expert, and I don't mind every human having a feat since it serves the versatility theme while also promoting the diversity theme. The problem Vhuman has currently IMO is that Feats are too few and far between, with an extra feat at lvl 1 Vhuman isn't as interesting a choice as RAW Vhuman is. (each subsequent feat is least interesting than the last, and most build will be "online" with just 1 or 2)





Does the expertise ability mean expert? Certainly, they'd be surprisingly good at it, but the final modifier is still just a number. Athletics with proficiency +2 and 12 Str is the same modifier as proficiency +2 and 16 Str. I think giving humans expertise is a decent way to show they are quick learners with an ability to do whatever they set their minds to. That's basically the fluff of humans.

[Psyren]

I personally think +2/+2/+2/+2/+2/+2 is unnecessary/excessive but I think they do need a buff.

Suggestions I've seen include:

+2/+2
+2/+2/+1
Two backgrounds
Bonus language + tool proficiency
Bonus proficiency of any kind (skill, tool, weapon, armor)

[animorte]

The fact that free flight and free cantrips (and dark vision) exist on other races pretty much makes many of the things without those fancy features obsolete, except in special circumstances.

[Amechra]

I give Standard Humans two Backgrounds. That's their special feature — they're so versatile and adaptable that they have twice the backstory of everyone else.

[diplomancer]

I personally think +2/+2/+2/+2/+2/+2 is unnecessary/excessive but I think they do need a buff.

Suggestions I've seen include:

+2/+2
+2/+2/+1
Two backgrounds
Bonus language + tool proficiency
Bonus proficiency of any kind (skill, tool, weapon, armor)

And my own suggestion a few years ago; a +1 to Proficiency (maybe without any ASI... if you want that old-school feel of humans being underpowered at first, but eventually surpassing other options; though I would have them have 2 +1s).

[Angelalex242]

Humans are supposed to be the dominant race. If they had +2 in all 6 stats...that might actually qualify as a reason why. They're just that little bit better than the dwarves and elves and whatever at existing.

[Tanarii]

Let standard humans be the only ones that can use point buy. All other races have to use standard array.

The AL players would have a conniption fit. :smallamused:

[diplomancer]

Let standard humans be the only ones that can use point buy. All other races have to use standard array.

The AL players would have a conniption fit. :smallamused:

You're a cruel man, Tanarii.

[Rukelnikov]

Does the expertise ability mean expert? Certainly, they'd be surprisingly good at it, but the final modifier is still just a number. Athletics with proficiency +2 and 12 Str is the same modifier as proficiency +2 and 16 Str. I think giving humans expertise is a decent way to show they are quick learners with an ability to do whatever they set their minds to. That's basically the fluff of humans.

Yeah, but idk, it still feels like everyone is an expert at something to me.


And my own suggestion a few years ago; a +1 to Proficiency (maybe without any ASI... if you want that old-school feel of humans being underpowered at first, but eventually surpassing other options; though I would have them have 2 +1s).

+1 Proficiency is good too


I give Standard Humans two Backgrounds. That's their special feature — they're so versatile and adaptable that they have twice the backstory of everyone else.

Its cool, but mechanically it ammounts to what? 2 more skills and a ribbon?

[Amechra]

Its cool, but mechanically it ammounts to what? 2 more skills and a ribbon?

Plus two languages/tool proficiencies.

[bid]

I'm not married to the idea. I'd still rather human gets +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 and interesting racial features that matter not just superfluous ribbons like everyone else. Floating +6 is fine. At +2/+2/+2 you can have 16 16 16 10 10 10 after buying three 14s and not wanting an 8.
That's the big joke I love here.
Instead of going 15+1, everyone would go 14+2.

[Pex]

That's the big joke I love here.
Instead of going 15+1, everyone would go 14+2.

It's a significant difference because you save points not having to buy a 15. As it is now, the extreme is 15 15 15 8 8 8 to get 16 16 16 9 9 9. You still have three negative one modifiers so +1 to everything was meaningless. +2 +2 +2 means having thee 16s and no negative modifiers. The non-prime non-CO stats are not useless. They still matter to a degree, but +1 to everything doesn't mean anything when you have even numbers to start with. Nothing wrong with having an 8, but math does matter it's nice you don't need to have one.

The original +2 to everything will always be relevant regardless of even or odd, and you have the extreme ending up with 16 16 16 12 12 12. You can have 16 16 16 14 12 10 or 16 16 16 15 11 10 for a half-feat later to have four 16s. Going for an 18 or 20 isn't automatic anymore. Still nice to have as always, but versatility is more attractive. It is a numbers game, but that's 5E's fault for giving humans only +1 to everything. +2 to everything makes it matter. Still, I would be just as happy if they gave human +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 and useful racial abilities that matter just like everyone else.

[Greywander]

The problem is that you're still competing with half-elf. Most characters only really care about three stats: their spellcasting stat, CON for HP and concentration, and STR or DEX for AC. Martials can often get by with just two stats: their weapon stat, and CON. With that in mind, the difference between +2 to one stat and +1 to two stats vs. +2 to one stat and +1 to all other stats is negligible, since those other stats are likely ones you don't care about. On top of that, half-elves also get two skills, darkvision, fey ancestry, and an extra language.

+2 to all stats is more appreciable, though still not super appealing despite how powerful it looks on paper. Great for builds that use four or more stats, though, like an unconventional multiclass build (e.g. wizard/paladin).

I agree that I'd rather see humans with actual interesting abilities. I'm working on a big homebrew project and did just that, actually. HFY stories can be a good source of inspiration; basically, think about how a non-human would describe humans. For my homebrew, I went with themes of: being brutally efficient in war, being able to survive just about anywhere, being super curious and quick to adopt things from other cultures, and getting a lot done in such a short lifespan. Some of these could work in vanilla 5e pretty well. For example, maybe humans ignore race and class restrictions on magic items. Or they get some kind of bonus to CON saves (most environmental/survival effects use CON saves).

I am just a bit sick of humans being so perfectly average. I get why it makes sense, but it just enhances the feeling that every other race is just "human, but..." Like, would you like to play human with pointy ears, short alcoholic human, or human with scales? Or wait, maybe you want human with red skin and horns? Giving humans their own unique abilities means that you'll feel their absence when you play anything else.

[Saelethil]

I agree that I'd rather see humans with actual interesting abilities. I'm working on a big homebrew project and did just that, actually. HFY stories can be a good source of inspiration; basically, think about how a non-human would describe humans. For my homebrew, I went with themes of: being brutally efficient in war, being able to survive just about anywhere, being super curious and quick to adopt things from other cultures, and getting a lot done in such a short lifespan. Some of these could work in vanilla 5e pretty well. For example, maybe humans ignore race and class restrictions on magic items. Or they get some kind of bonus to CON saves (most environmental/survival effects use CON saves).


I haven’t had a player grab it yet (campaign went on hiatus) but I’ve given this as another option for Humans:
+2/+1 or +1/+1/+1
Advantage on saving throws vs. exhaustion & the ability to remove a level of exhaustion on a SR (cannot do so again until they complete a LR).
Deal additional damage equal to PB when attacking while below 1/2 HP.
2 skills/tools/languages/weapons.

[Psyren]

It's a significant difference because you save points not having to buy a 15. As it is now, the extreme is 15 15 15 8 8 8 to get 16 16 16 9 9 9. You still have three negative one modifiers so +1 to everything was meaningless. +2 +2 +2 means having thee 16s and no negative modifiers. The non-prime non-CO stats are not useless. They still matter to a degree, but +1 to everything doesn't mean anything when you have even numbers to start with. Nothing wrong with having an 8, but math does matter it's nice you don't need to have one.


I agree and am okay with 2/2/2 for the standard human. The second and third +2 show Humans' adaptibility/versatility without spiking them higher than anyone else in the primary stat. It also means that humans are particularly suited to multidisciplinary classes (read: MAD ones) like Monk and Paladin, which they have often been the iconics for in the past.

Alternatively you could give Half-Elf, Half-Orc and Human the +2/+2/+2 stats and then differentiate the three of them by other means, with humans getting the double background or similar. Alternatively, both Half-Elf and Half-Orc could have +2/+2 along with elvish or orcish traits, with only Human getting the full +2/+2/+2 but lacking too much else.

[Angelalex242]

3 +2s isn't quite enough, I think.

6 +2s would do it, though. +2 to every stat enforces...a step up, of sorts...even in the things you're not concerned about.

[Zanthy1]

3 +2s isn't quite enough, I think.

6 +2s would do it, though. +2 to every stat enforces...a step up, of sorts...even in the things you're not concerned about.

What about 3 +2's AND a second background?

[Angelalex242]

...a second background...practically speaking, it makes you proficient in 2 more skills, and then adds a language or something like that.

Is that better or worse than a +1 in your 3 bad saves? I dunno.

[Psyren]

What about 3 +2's AND a second background?

I'd prefer this to 6 +2s personally.

Another alternative is +2/+2/+2/+1/+1/+1

[Willie the Duck]

On the other hand, I had a std human cleric as my first character and he didn't have any problems besides dying alongside our dwarf paladin in combat during the night the dice went cold ...
I've had a similar situation with only two +1s (a vuman where the bonus skill in Arcana and feat of Ritual Caster:wizard ended up not being relevant when the party lineup changed). Racial abilities, unless they turn on a specific build or concept, are for the most part minor enough that you don't need them to succeed. These discussions, IMO, are mostly centered on a conceptualization of relative fairness (each racial selection ought give approximately the same level of benefit).


I generally agree that the approach to make humans better is not to simply make them statistically superior, but to give them an interesting pool of abilities to choose from. Heck, maybe human's unique trait is that they can steal one 1st-level class feature of any other class. If "versatility" and "variety" are the human thing, then that is what they need. Bigger stats doesn't provide either.
Honestly, If we're discussing theoretical changes to the game, re-examining this initial premise would be where I would start.

[Aquillion]

I give Standard Humans two Backgrounds. That's their special feature — they're so versatile and adaptable that they have twice the backstory of everyone else.
Amusingly, if you allowed this to be used with Strixhaven backgrounds and allowed them to take two of them, this would make them far and above one of the best spellcaster races in the game. You'd be getting four cantrips, two additional spells known / prepared, two additional first-level spell slots, and up to twenty spells added to your class list.

Of course that says more about the Strixhaven backgrounds than anything else (and they aren't really intended to be used outside of Strixhaven games, where everyone has one.) Plus taking more than one of those is thematically weird because it means you're in multiple houses.

[Psyren]

Amusingly, if you allowed this to be used with Strixhaven backgrounds and allowed them to take two of them, this would make them far and above one of the best spellcaster races in the game. You'd be getting four cantrips, two additional spells known / prepared, two additional first-level spell slots, and up to twenty spells added to your class list.

Of course that says more about the Strixhaven backgrounds than anything else (and they aren't really intended to be used outside of Strixhaven games, where everyone has one.) Plus taking more than one of those is thematically weird because it means you're in multiple houses.

Easy enough to prevent if the second background is only allowed from a curated list.

IIRC the UA Krynn backgrounds are high-powered too, with feats packaged in.

[Rukelnikov]

Easy enough to prevent if the second background is only allowed from a curated list.

IIRC the UA Krynn backgrounds are high-powered too, with feats packaged in.

Yeah, its pretty clear at this point that the power level of backgrounds has gone up. I'd expect 5.5 to give bgs a comparable level or power to those seen in UA Krynn or Strix.

[x3n0n]

Yeah, its pretty clear at this point that the power level of backgrounds has gone up. I'd expect 5.5 to give bgs a comparable level or power to those seen in UA Krynn or Strix.

It also seems to me that they like having a (possibly setting-specific) "feat-sized" customization option available at first level.
However, I suspect that they'll do something more similar to Krynn UA (background with not very much mechanical benefit, but it can serve as a pre-req for a first-level feat that has the mechanics) than to Ravnica (which embeds mechanical benefits into the background itself).

[Dame_Mechanus]

I generally agree that the approach to make humans better is not to simply make them statistically superior, but to give them an interesting pool of abilities to choose from. Heck, maybe human's unique trait is that they can steal one 1st-level class feature of any other class. If "versatility" and "variety" are the human thing, then that is what they need. Bigger stats doesn't provide either.

I think this is a great idea and successfully emphasizes humans as being flexible rather than balanced. That isn't to say it's unbalanced, but that it really sells players on the idea that humans can do things the other races can't... without devoting more study and time to a particular discipline. I might steal it for the future.