Hiro Quester
2022-07-11, 03:36 PM
I'm playing a half-elf Bard1/Warlock3. Cha 17, Dex and Con 16, Str 10, Wis and Int 8 (he does not think through his choices). Trying to be a glory-seeking frontline "Gish", with elven accuracy, sword flourishes and eldrich smites to pump into crits.
(With a druid, cleric, and wizard in the party, I'm okay multi classing away access to high-level spells and delaying the spellcasting I have, and with using a decent chunk of Spellcasting resources for personal damage-dealing glory, and only sometimes throwing out a hypnotic pattern or Mass suggestion as needed. Though with jack of all trades and access to counter spell and dispel magic, those would get used a lot too. And with a Paladin in the party, I'll be up front near his aura for saving throw boosts).
My intent was to go Hexblade 5/Bard 6 (probably swords bard; I considered whispers, but he doesn't really have enough intelligence to pull off subterfuge). Then develop Hexblade or Bard to 14 or 15, depending on the campaign's needs and what seems most fun.
I described this character in a bit more detail when discussing how improved pact weapon would work with an existing weapon here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?647527-Pact-of-the-Blade-using-an-existing-weapon).
But as we hit level 3 in our game the other day, my DM gave me an offer I could not refuse. Choosing pact of the blade, he offered me a change from hexblade to a tailor-made homebrew patron focussed on getting revenge for my dead friend, along with a very special weapon.
Given my backstory, my character would choose that different patron. (Plus, he doesn't really think through decisions well; with 8 wis and 8 int, he's very impulsive.)
So I don't have the Hex Warrior feature any longer. No SAD-Cha dependent for Hex/Pact weapons and for Spellcasting, but use a magic rapier now, based on dex. And no shield proficiency, nor medium armor. And no shield spell. This somewhat changes my idea of the character and plans for feats/ASIs. No longer room for warcaster (but I have eldrich mind and a free hand). No GWM or sharpshooter.
It's not without some serious benefits, though.
Instead of Shield spell, I have Absorb Elements. That seems a fair trade, that will probably pay off when hit with massive AOE elemental damage. And Swords bard can use flourishes to bump AC sometimes, though it's not a reaction.
Instead of medium armor and shield, I have special (very attractively cut) silk clothes that act as bracers of Defense (+2 AC), and I can take the Armor of Shadows invocation that gives mage armor at will. That gives 18 AC with my +3 dex (which I will need to increase). It costs an invocation to have decent AC, but it looks cool (which my character would care about).
And I no longer need Improved Pact Weapon anyway . I have a free hand without the shield, and have a +1 pact weapon anyway.
The rapier is my bond with my patron (so I guess I won't be summoning other weapons with Pact of the Blade). but it's a good weapon.
It's a +1 rapier, that 3/Short rest can mark a person for death on the first hit (no action required), getting an extra d4 damage for this and all subsequent hits, for 10 minutes (no concentration). Plus I know where they are if I can't see them. So it's like a hexblade's curse, but usable more often, with a d4 damage (better than the curse's proficiency bonus at low levels, but worse at higher levels) and does not take a bonus action to activate, with a mini-Hunter's Mark rider.
In addition, I get something like relentless hex. I can teleport as a bonus action to within 5 ft of the target I have marked for death each round, while the mark is active.
And the sword also grants expertise in the perform skill, which is nice, since I wouldn't have used expertise on that.
I also get a decent source of damage and temporary hit points. As part of the pact, I can make a "Payback" melee spell attack and do D12+cha damage (increasing, as I progress to 2d12at 5th level, and upwards at 11 and 17 like a cantrip). And I gain temporary HPs equal to half the damage done.
The 6th and 14th level pact abilities haven't yet been worked out.
I think it's a probably a decent deal all up. But it changes the Cha-SAD nature of the character I had planned. And the hexblade's curse crit on 19-20 combination with Elven Accuracy is gone. And I'll need to spend ASIs on increasing Dex, instead of things to augment crits (like GWM as I sort of hoped to do).
So I need a new plan for level progression and ASI/feats and maybe invocations.
I'll be taking Warlock 4 next level (for ASI/feat). I'm after advice, please, on how to make a warlock/bard a good melee Gish without Hexblade and Hex Warrior.
Levelling:
My original plan of Warlock 5 (for thirsting blade), then Swords bard to 6 (for more low-level bard spell-slots, sword flourishes for extra AC and moving enemies around, ASI, short rest BI, extra attack). That gets both Warlock spells and Bardic Inspirations refreshing on a short rest, too.
Then probably more warlock (to 14), bards Extra attack enabling me to to switch Thirsting blade to Eldrich Smite, and to pick up Cloak of Flies, and eventually lifedrinker, as well as more casting (including 7th level Mystic Arcanum). But increasing Spellcasting and BI dice, and adding magical secrets with more bard (to 15, with 7th level spells) is a good option too.
Ideas of how best to progress all this are welcome.
Do you think 3 levels of Swashbuckler Rogue is a good addition to a melee-gish, for extra mobility (opportunity attack immunity when I attack) and 2d6 Sneak attack practically every round, and getting both Cha and Dex to initiative?
If I'm really okay with limited spellcasting for melee glory, then Swords Bard 6/ Warlock 5/ Swashbuckler Rogue 9 might even be viable. Up to 5d6 sneak attack, evasion, uncanny dodge, expertise, panache goading attack or charm monster. It's not really the "Gish" I planned though.
Or a level or two of fighter, for a fighting style, second wind and action surge (e.g. bard6/Warlock12/Fighter 2)? Or 3 for Champion's extra crit range? Trading lifedrinker at level 18 for more crits from level 14 might be a good trade?
Feats/ASIs:
If I take the minor class to level 5 or 6, and the major one to 14 or 15, that means only four Feat/ASIs in total.
I guess that means one half-feat to increase CHA, then two to max Dex and one more to max Cha. that seems kinda boring, though.
My original plan was to take Elven Accuracy at Warlock 4, to increase cha from 17 to 18. It will increase spell DC, uses of bardic inspiration, and the to-hit and damage of the "payback" melee spell attack. And Elven accuracy applies to any attack using dex or cha, so it would still enable rolling an extra dice when I have advantage on dex-based attacks with rapier as well as cha-based spell attacks.
But perhaps a different feat is better? since I'll no longer have the 19-20 crit range that made Elven Accuracy so juicy? (That was only against the target of Hexblade curse, though; so only 1 opponent /Short Rest until 14th level Warlock).
Are there other half-feats that raise an ability score and give an extra ability worth considering instead? E.g. has anyone used telekinetic on a build like this?
Warlock features: I guess I'm committed to Pact of the Blade. But most of the benefits of that pact are negated. I'm bound to this particular rapier, so I can't really summon a different weapon. And I don't get to use the Hex warrior feature with weapons I summon, so no greatsword (setup for great weapon master) later on.
The only part I can use is the ability to summon this rapier as an action if it's separated from me. And the invocations that Pact of the Blade is prerequisite for (smite, lifedrinker, etc.)
This gets me at least considering wither a different pact (tome, chain) might be more viable. So far, I was certain that pact of the blade was the obvious pact boon to take. So I have never even tried to understand how to make good use of these others. If I'm overlooking something useful, please let me know.
Any advice on how to make the most of all this would be sincerely appreciated.
(With a druid, cleric, and wizard in the party, I'm okay multi classing away access to high-level spells and delaying the spellcasting I have, and with using a decent chunk of Spellcasting resources for personal damage-dealing glory, and only sometimes throwing out a hypnotic pattern or Mass suggestion as needed. Though with jack of all trades and access to counter spell and dispel magic, those would get used a lot too. And with a Paladin in the party, I'll be up front near his aura for saving throw boosts).
My intent was to go Hexblade 5/Bard 6 (probably swords bard; I considered whispers, but he doesn't really have enough intelligence to pull off subterfuge). Then develop Hexblade or Bard to 14 or 15, depending on the campaign's needs and what seems most fun.
I described this character in a bit more detail when discussing how improved pact weapon would work with an existing weapon here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?647527-Pact-of-the-Blade-using-an-existing-weapon).
But as we hit level 3 in our game the other day, my DM gave me an offer I could not refuse. Choosing pact of the blade, he offered me a change from hexblade to a tailor-made homebrew patron focussed on getting revenge for my dead friend, along with a very special weapon.
Given my backstory, my character would choose that different patron. (Plus, he doesn't really think through decisions well; with 8 wis and 8 int, he's very impulsive.)
So I don't have the Hex Warrior feature any longer. No SAD-Cha dependent for Hex/Pact weapons and for Spellcasting, but use a magic rapier now, based on dex. And no shield proficiency, nor medium armor. And no shield spell. This somewhat changes my idea of the character and plans for feats/ASIs. No longer room for warcaster (but I have eldrich mind and a free hand). No GWM or sharpshooter.
It's not without some serious benefits, though.
Instead of Shield spell, I have Absorb Elements. That seems a fair trade, that will probably pay off when hit with massive AOE elemental damage. And Swords bard can use flourishes to bump AC sometimes, though it's not a reaction.
Instead of medium armor and shield, I have special (very attractively cut) silk clothes that act as bracers of Defense (+2 AC), and I can take the Armor of Shadows invocation that gives mage armor at will. That gives 18 AC with my +3 dex (which I will need to increase). It costs an invocation to have decent AC, but it looks cool (which my character would care about).
And I no longer need Improved Pact Weapon anyway . I have a free hand without the shield, and have a +1 pact weapon anyway.
The rapier is my bond with my patron (so I guess I won't be summoning other weapons with Pact of the Blade). but it's a good weapon.
It's a +1 rapier, that 3/Short rest can mark a person for death on the first hit (no action required), getting an extra d4 damage for this and all subsequent hits, for 10 minutes (no concentration). Plus I know where they are if I can't see them. So it's like a hexblade's curse, but usable more often, with a d4 damage (better than the curse's proficiency bonus at low levels, but worse at higher levels) and does not take a bonus action to activate, with a mini-Hunter's Mark rider.
In addition, I get something like relentless hex. I can teleport as a bonus action to within 5 ft of the target I have marked for death each round, while the mark is active.
And the sword also grants expertise in the perform skill, which is nice, since I wouldn't have used expertise on that.
I also get a decent source of damage and temporary hit points. As part of the pact, I can make a "Payback" melee spell attack and do D12+cha damage (increasing, as I progress to 2d12at 5th level, and upwards at 11 and 17 like a cantrip). And I gain temporary HPs equal to half the damage done.
The 6th and 14th level pact abilities haven't yet been worked out.
I think it's a probably a decent deal all up. But it changes the Cha-SAD nature of the character I had planned. And the hexblade's curse crit on 19-20 combination with Elven Accuracy is gone. And I'll need to spend ASIs on increasing Dex, instead of things to augment crits (like GWM as I sort of hoped to do).
So I need a new plan for level progression and ASI/feats and maybe invocations.
I'll be taking Warlock 4 next level (for ASI/feat). I'm after advice, please, on how to make a warlock/bard a good melee Gish without Hexblade and Hex Warrior.
Levelling:
My original plan of Warlock 5 (for thirsting blade), then Swords bard to 6 (for more low-level bard spell-slots, sword flourishes for extra AC and moving enemies around, ASI, short rest BI, extra attack). That gets both Warlock spells and Bardic Inspirations refreshing on a short rest, too.
Then probably more warlock (to 14), bards Extra attack enabling me to to switch Thirsting blade to Eldrich Smite, and to pick up Cloak of Flies, and eventually lifedrinker, as well as more casting (including 7th level Mystic Arcanum). But increasing Spellcasting and BI dice, and adding magical secrets with more bard (to 15, with 7th level spells) is a good option too.
Ideas of how best to progress all this are welcome.
Do you think 3 levels of Swashbuckler Rogue is a good addition to a melee-gish, for extra mobility (opportunity attack immunity when I attack) and 2d6 Sneak attack practically every round, and getting both Cha and Dex to initiative?
If I'm really okay with limited spellcasting for melee glory, then Swords Bard 6/ Warlock 5/ Swashbuckler Rogue 9 might even be viable. Up to 5d6 sneak attack, evasion, uncanny dodge, expertise, panache goading attack or charm monster. It's not really the "Gish" I planned though.
Or a level or two of fighter, for a fighting style, second wind and action surge (e.g. bard6/Warlock12/Fighter 2)? Or 3 for Champion's extra crit range? Trading lifedrinker at level 18 for more crits from level 14 might be a good trade?
Feats/ASIs:
If I take the minor class to level 5 or 6, and the major one to 14 or 15, that means only four Feat/ASIs in total.
I guess that means one half-feat to increase CHA, then two to max Dex and one more to max Cha. that seems kinda boring, though.
My original plan was to take Elven Accuracy at Warlock 4, to increase cha from 17 to 18. It will increase spell DC, uses of bardic inspiration, and the to-hit and damage of the "payback" melee spell attack. And Elven accuracy applies to any attack using dex or cha, so it would still enable rolling an extra dice when I have advantage on dex-based attacks with rapier as well as cha-based spell attacks.
But perhaps a different feat is better? since I'll no longer have the 19-20 crit range that made Elven Accuracy so juicy? (That was only against the target of Hexblade curse, though; so only 1 opponent /Short Rest until 14th level Warlock).
Are there other half-feats that raise an ability score and give an extra ability worth considering instead? E.g. has anyone used telekinetic on a build like this?
Warlock features: I guess I'm committed to Pact of the Blade. But most of the benefits of that pact are negated. I'm bound to this particular rapier, so I can't really summon a different weapon. And I don't get to use the Hex warrior feature with weapons I summon, so no greatsword (setup for great weapon master) later on.
The only part I can use is the ability to summon this rapier as an action if it's separated from me. And the invocations that Pact of the Blade is prerequisite for (smite, lifedrinker, etc.)
This gets me at least considering wither a different pact (tome, chain) might be more viable. So far, I was certain that pact of the blade was the obvious pact boon to take. So I have never even tried to understand how to make good use of these others. If I'm overlooking something useful, please let me know.
Any advice on how to make the most of all this would be sincerely appreciated.