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View Full Version : What if Echo Knight were a rogue subclass?



Spiritchaser
2022-07-13, 09:14 AM
Ok, hear me out here.

The echo knights features allow:

Excellent mobility
The ability to make attacks from a protected position
Useful tools for scouting
A mechanism that can markedly increase the number of opportunity attacks you can expect to generate, potentially allowing an extra sneak attack.
The ability to throw out an extra attack if you need it, several times per day.

These all seem perfectly designed for a rogue.

Now, ok, your echo is going to get in the way of your cunning action. There’s no getting out of that.

Also, there’s an imbalance in the number of features rogues get vs fighters, but throw out shadow martyr, or reclaim potential and it probably works just fine

I’d play it.

Anyone think it’s broken?

Psyren
2022-07-13, 02:24 PM
Conceptually it's fine (Your echo could be fluffed as animating your shadow for instance, which is pretty rogue-y in flavor) but you'd have to tweak it a bit to make it work. Your first big hurdle is that rogues get fewer subclass features than fighters, both in total and at the levels most people play (1-12).

Fighter subclass features: 3, 7, 10, 15, 18
Rogue subclass features: 3, 9, 13, 17

You can double up a couple of the features instead but you run the risk of throwing the subclass a little out of balance (it already gets two features at 3 for instance.)

While driving the echo competes with Cunning Action and Steady Aim for your BA, I think that's fine given that it lets you teleport around at will, plus with Unleash Incarnation you even get a second attack to replace the one you'd be giving up if you're TWFing.

Spiritchaser
2022-07-13, 02:33 PM
I don’t think I’d double up features, I mention in the OP that I’d straight up delete either shadow martyr or reclaim potential.

Reclaim potential is a bit of selfish help with long meat grinder situations, shadow martyr is party protection from the same. Neither are conceptually necessary for a rogue.

Since on the rogue chassis neither could happen until level 13, as you mention it’s likely not relevant very often. Still, as and when it happens, I’d be more inclined to keep martyr and lose reclaim potential.

Edit, I guess I could even allow the choice.