Change hexblade's 6th level ability?

[kaith282]

Hi everyone! Following a previous thread where I asked for help to optimize my Hexblade, I would ask for some more help with another little big thing. In fact, even though the 6th level hexblade ability sounds interesting in many ways, it's just not really the kind of thing my character would do at all. My DM thinks the same, so he told me we might change it for the sake of roleplay ( or to save me from losing a subclass ability completely).
So my question is: is there any official rule or some official material suggesting how to modify a subclass? And if not, how would you do it? I thought I might take one of the same level from another warlock subclass, but it might break the balance if I don't choose wisely. Any ideas?

Thank you in advvance for the answers!

[Amnestic]

Hi everyone! Following a previous thread where I asked for help to optimize my Hexblade, I would ask for some more help with another little big thing. In fact, even though the 6th level hexblade ability sounds interesting in many ways, it's just not really the kind of thing my character would do at all. My DM thinks the same, so he told me we might change it for the sake of roleplay ( or to save me from losing a subclass ability completely).
So my question is: is there any official rule or some official material suggesting how to modify a subclass? And if not, how would you do it? I thought I might take one of the same level from another warlock subclass, but it might break the balance if I don't choose wisely. Any ideas?

Thank you in advvance for the answers!

DMG Page 288/289 ("Substituting Class Features") talks about this sort of thing and gives some guidance on what to consider.

Without knowing more about your character, recommending an alternate trait is hard, but Dark One's Own's Luck from Fiendlock at 6th level is both balanced and suitably 'generic' in nature/execution that it could slot in easily. I'd probably take that as my primary choice.

[meandean]

Would the similar "Hound of Ill Omen" (Shadow Sorcerer) be a better fit? You could replace "3 sorcery points" with 1/short rest or somesuch.


Accursed Specter

Starting at 6th level, you can curse the soul of a person you slay, temporarily binding it in your service. When you slay a humanoid, you can cause its spirit to rise from its corpse as a specter. When the specter appears, it gains temporary hit points equal to half your warlock level. Roll initiative for the specter, which has its own turns. It obeys your verbal commands, and it gains a special bonus to its attack rolls equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of +0).
The specter remains in your service until the end of your next long rest, at which point it vanishes to the afterlife.
Once you bind a specter with this feature, you can't use the feature again until you finish a long rest.
Hound of Ill Omen

At 6th level, you gain the ability to call forth a howling creature of darkness to harass your foes. As a bonus action, you can spend 3 sorcery points to summon a hound of ill omen to target one creature you can see within 120 feet of you. The hound uses the dire wolf’s statistics, with the following changes:


The hound is size Medium, not Large, and it counts as a monstrosity, not a beast.
It appears with a number of temporary hit points equal to half your sorcerer level.
It can move through other creatures and objects as if they were difficult terrain. The hound takes 5 force damage if it ends its turn inside an object.
At the start of its turn, the hound automatically knows its target’s location. If the target was hidden, it is no longer hidden from the hound.

The hound appears in an unoccupied space of your choice within 30 feet of the target. Roll initiative for the hound. On its turn, it can move only toward its target by the most direct route, and it can use its action only to attack its target. The hound can make opportunity attacks, but only against its target. Additionally, while the hound is within 5 feet of the target, the target has disadvantage on saving throws against any spell you cast. The hound disappears if it is reduced to 0 hit points, if its target is reduced to 0 hit points, or after 5 minutes.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

As Kaith said, could you share more of your character's concept, personality, etc so we might recommend a good choice?

In the meantime, is it the idea of killing someone and snagging their soul as a Shadow that doesn't appeal to you? Because you could just talk to the DM and reflavor. Maybe the spirit of your blade manifests physically, being a fragment of your hexblade spirit in a physical presence. Use the stats for the Shadow but it's not Undead.

[Segev]

This (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?587734-Turning-the-Hexblade-quot-Patron-quot-into-modular-powers) is probably more radical a change than you're looking for, but I can't resist the opportunity to promote my homebrew that turns the patron into a set of spells and invocations.

You may also - especially if you're not running the Pact of the Blade and the Extra Attack invocation associated with it - like the Blademaster Wizard's level 6 Extra Attack feature.

[kaith282]

As Kaith said, could you share more of your character's concept, personality, etc so we might recommend a good choice?

In the meantime, is it the idea of killing someone and snagging their soul as a Shadow that doesn't appeal to you? Because you could just talk to the DM and reflavor. Maybe the spirit of your blade manifests physically, being a fragment of your hexblade spirit in a physical presence. Use the stats for the Shadow but it's not Undead.

Sure, I will share as much as I can!
My character is a rebel/terrorist against the Shogun government. He was a very good fighter coming from a fallen noble family, who lived a ridiculously poor life after being abandoned by his father.
Being particularly sensitive to spirits, after critical events he starts thinking the only way to destroy the shogun is to obtain a power no human holds. So he gets possessed by a spirit having his first approach to magic (this is a pretty low magic campaign in general, at this point at least). Just using his will power and and some help from a friend, he turned that possession into an occasion to control the spirit which then turned into a spiritual weapon. Being reckless and broken inside from the events he eventually died during an impossible fight but his willpower is so strong and he is so devoted and obsessed with his cause, that he succeeded retaining his consciousness. After that, he could finally, thanks to a friend, talk again to the sword, making a deal with it and fusing together.
The character is smart, reckless and obsessed with what he thinks is duty is. He has serious difficulty to trust anyone or anything to make his job at his place so using or controlling another creature is really out of character, just because he wouldn't trust it in anyway, even if completely under his control. He wouldn't even release the entity inside of him for fighting or scouting, despite the deal, and feels somehow better knowing their souls are constantly fused. So I would say really nothing that involves other creatures: no summunos, no control etc.

I hope this bit of context gave some clarifications!

[kaith282]

This (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?587734-Turning-the-Hexblade-quot-Patron-quot-into-modular-powers) is probably more radical a change than you're looking for, but I can't resist the opportunity to promote my homebrew that turns the patron into a set of spells and invocations.

You may also - especially if you're not running the Pact of the Blade and the Extra Attack invocation associated with it - like the Blademaster Wizard's level 6 Extra Attack feature.

I'm running exactly the pact of blade with the extra attack invocation. But this is somehow what I was looking for and might be a great idea if they stack.

PS Your homebrew looks really cool, but maybe a little too much compared to what I was looking for!

[animorte]

I also have a home brew concept to recommend. It’s based on being able to switch out a subclass feature for a different subclass (of the same base class) that is of the correct level.

This only becomes an issue when you are looking at features that merely improve or build upon preexisting features. As such, you would not be able to take some of features, but most should be fine.

[kaith282]

I also have a home brew concept to recommend. It’s based on being able to switch out a subclass feature for a different subclass (of the same base class) that is of the correct level.

This only becomes an issue when you are looking at features that merely improve or build upon preexisting features. As such, you would not be able to take some of features, but most should be fine.

This is what I thought too, I was just wondering if this might break the balance since some subclasses seem to get the actual "strong" ability at very different levels. Controlling a spirit guy with very few HPs for a few hours seems pretty trivial compared to other features. Something like an extra attack for example, would be incredibly powerful for the kind of character I'm building.
Don't get me wrong, for the way I play I would surely break something even with a spirit guy but...you know, homebrew is a usually a gift from the master, just trying not to get too much from it.

[meandean]

Extra Attack doesn't stack, no.

"Willpower" is a flexible concept that can be taken any number of ways. Most anything that improves a single roll can be flavored as you digging deep to try just a little harder than anyone else can. e.g.

Fiend Warlock's Dark One's Own Luck: As mentioned, add 1d10 to your ability check or saving throw (1/short rest)
GOO Warlock's Entropic Ward: As reaction, can impose disadvantage on opponent's attack, and you get advantage on your next attack against them if it misses (1/short rest)
Wild Magic Sorcerer's Bend Luck: As reaction, can add 1d4 to ability check/attack/saving throw of anyone you can see (2 sorcery points)

Two 6th level abilities from other classes that could be repurposed are Zealot Barbarian's Fanatical Focus (removing "while raging", and changing "once per rage" to proficiency bonus/long rest... note that this is pretty powerful for a spellcaster...)
Fanatical Focus

Starting at 6th level, the divine power that fuels your rage can protect you. If you fail a saving throw while raging, you can reroll it, and you must use the new roll. You can use this ability only once per rage.or perhaps more reasonably, Long Death Monk's Hour of Reaping:
Hour of Reaping

At 6th level, you gain the ability to unsettle or terrify those around you as an action, for your soul has been touched by the shadow of death. When you take this action, each creature within 30 feet of you that can see you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn.

[Gignere]

I'm running exactly the pact of blade with the extra attack invocation. But this is somehow what I was looking for and might be a great idea if they stack.

PS Your homebrew looks really cool, but maybe a little too much compared to what I was looking for!

Even if it doesn’t stack it can allow you to swap out your invocation for something else. Which is pretty great already.

[kaith282]

Even if it doesn’t stack it can allow you to swap out your invocation for something else. Which is pretty great already.

That was a pretty obvious consequence but didn't really think of it!

[Segev]

I'm running exactly the pact of blade with the extra attack invocation. But this is somehow what I was looking for and might be a great idea if they stack.

PS Your homebrew looks really cool, but maybe a little too much compared to what I was looking for!

They do not stack, but if you like the feature, you can always swap out the invocation for something else.

And thanks! But I definitely see it being not what you're looking for.

[Keravath]

I'm running exactly the pact of blade with the extra attack invocation. But this is somehow what I was looking for and might be a great idea if they stack.

PS Your homebrew looks really cool, but maybe a little too much compared to what I was looking for!

Extra Attack doesn't stack with Thirsting Blade. However, if your DM lets you substitute the Extra Attack class feature for your level 6 feature it will let you substitute another invocation for Thirsting Blade. Extra Attack sounds thematic for a past life as a fighter. In addition, the extra attack feature would allow you to make an extra attack with any weapon while Thirsting Blade only works with your pact weapon. This would give you a bit more flexibility in switching weapons if needed.

[Hiro Quester]

Even though it does not stack, the Bladesinger'e extra attack is rather cool, in allowing you to cast a cantrip as one of the attacks.

It might even be super-powerful, in the hands of a warlock who like a bladesinger can make a booming blade attack and then a regular attack (and use Eldrich Smite on that one).

Or use repelling blast, using Eldrich blast to push an opponent out of melee with you for Opportunity-attack free withdrawal.

On a squishier-then-a-melee-class warlock, that seems a fun to use but not unbalanced option to suggest to your DM. Freeing up an invocation seems a very good benefit, too.

Limiting it, like Thirsting Blade, to your pact weapon seems an appropriate limitation, IMHO.

It's by far my favorite suggestion here. So much that I'm thinking of suggesting it to my DM for the bard1/ warlock 3 I'm currently playing, which got switched to a non-hexblade melee-focussed Patron, whose 6th level ability is so far not defined.

[Keravath]

Even though it does not stack, the Bladesinger'e extra attack is rather cool, in allowing you to cast a cantrip as one of the attacks.

It might even be super-powerful, in the hands of a warlock who like a bladesinger can make a booming blade attack and then a regular attack (and use Eldrich Smite on that one).

Or use repelling blast, using Eldrich blast to push an opponent out of melee with you for Opportunity-attack free withdrawal.

On a squishier-then-a-melee-class warlock, that seems a fun to use but not unbalanced option to suggest to your DM. Freeing up an invocation seems a very good benefit, too.

Limiting it, like Thirsting Blade, to your pact weapon seems an appropriate limitation, IMHO.

It's by far my favorite suggestion here. So much that I'm thinking of suggesting it to my DM for the bard1/ warlock 3 I'm currently playing, which got switched to a non-hexblade melee-focussed Patron, whose 6th level ability is so far not defined.

The level 6 Bladesinger ability with both Extra Attack and the ability to substitute a cantrip for one of those attacks might be a bit overpowered for a melee warlock. (especially the one being discussed in this case).

Booming blade + attack adds extra damage plus the damage if move rider. It still gives two melee attacks, either of which could be used with Eldritch Smite since smite is not allocated until after the attack hits.

Using repelling blast + eldritch blast to push an opponent away can be a tactic in some cases. However, if that opponent is within 5' then the ranged spell attacks are at disadvantage so it might not be that effective.

Even just the Extra Attack feature, freeing the invocation and allowing multiple attacks with any weapon rather than just the pact weapon is already really good though having the Bladesinger feature but limited to the pact weapon is even better.

[AvvyR]

You mention your character as being particularly in tune with spirits, why not just reflavor the spectre as a friendly spirit that comes to assist you for a while and scrap the whole undead theming? I ran into this exact issue when I played a hexblade, as raising the dead or trapping the souls of my enemies didn't match my character at all, my DM just reflavored the spectre as an ancestral spirit that came to my aid.

[kaith282]

You mention your character as being particularly in tune with spirits, why not just reflavor the spectre as a friendly spirit that comes to assist you for a while and scrap the whole undead theming? I ran into this exact issue when I played a hexblade, as raising the dead or trapping the souls of my enemies didn't match my character at all, my DM just reflavored the spectre as an ancestral spirit that came to my aid.

This would have been a very nice idea, some kami maybe. But my build is complete and done, and I went for another one directly :(

[animorte]

Spirits Bard is very in tune with spirits. Excluding the randomness of spirit story abilities, the other features are still quite good.