Paladin spells to use with a mount (PEACH)

[Abuzorg]

Even though Paladins don't get a special mount as a class feature anymore, I still wanted to update some 3.5 spells that interacted with this mechanic, wether they use a mount made with find steed or a regular one. Some of you will recognize the Golden Barding spell from one of my previous threads. I updated it, addressing the concerns of whom could be targeted by the spell. Hence, all these spells have the following material component "A special saddle that was blessed through a one-hour ceremony that used sacred materials worth at least 100 gp" and begin with the following sentence "You touch the creature wearing the saddle used as a material component for this spell".

Let me know what you think.

Golden Barding
1st-level Abjuration
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, M (A special saddle that was blessed through a one-hour ceremony that used sacred materials worth at least 100 gp)
Duration: 8 hours

You touch the creature wearing the saddle used as a material component for this spell and a shimmering suit of golden barding appears on it. For the duration, the target’s AC is equal to 15 + its Dexterity modifier (max+2).

Classes: Paladin

Holy Spurs
2nd-level Transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, M (A special saddle that was blessed through a one-hour ceremony that used sacred materials worth at least 100 gp)
Duration: 1 hour

You touch the creature wearing the saddle used as a material component for this spell. For the duration, its speed increases by 40 feet.

Classes: Paladin

Holy Mount
3rd-level Transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (A special saddle that was blessed through a one-hour ceremony that used sacred materials worth at least 100 gp)
Duration: 10 minutes

You touch the creature wearing the saddle used as a material component for this spell and cause holy power to radiate from it in a golden nimbus. For the duration, the target gains resistance to radiant and nonmagical bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage. It also becomes immune to the charmed and frightened conditions, as well as exhaustion. Furthermore, it gains darkvision up to 120 feet and its attacks deal an extra 1d8 radiant damage.

Unholy Mount
3rd-level Transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, (A special saddle that was blessed through a one-hour ceremony that used sacred materials worth at least 100 gp)
Duration: 10 minutes

You touch the creature wearing the saddle used as a material component for this spell and cause unholy power to radiate from it in a dark nimbus. For the duration, the target gains immunity to poison damage and resistance to nonmagical bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage. It also becomes immune to the poisoned condition. Furthermore, it gains darkvision up to 120 feet and its attacks deal an extra 1d8 necrotic damage.

Spiritual Chariot
4th-level Conjuration
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (A special saddle that was blessed through a one-hour ceremony that used sacred materials worth at least 100 gp)
Duration: 1 hour

You touch the creature wearing the saddle used as a material component for this spell and a chariot made of magical force appears and harnesses itself to it. It can hold any combination of up to two Medium or four Small creatures (including the driver). Although the chariot seems large and sturdy, it and its occupants have no weight for the purpose of the mount’s carrying capacity.

The driver of the chariot has advantage on any ability checks related to driving it and guiding the mount. Also, creatures inside the chariot can benefit from half cover, depending of the position of their attackers.

The chariot is immune to all damage, but a disintegrate spell or similar effect will destroy it. The spell ends early if the chariot is ever unhitched from the mount.

Classes: Paladin

[noob]

What prevents a normal person from wearing the saddle to be the target of those spells?

[Abuzorg]

What prevents a normal person from wearing the saddle to be the target of those spells?

The DM's adjudication. As per the mounted combat rules :


A willing creature that is at least one size larger than you and that has an appropriate anatomy can serve as a mount, using the following rules.

I know that myself and any GM I play with would rule that an humanoid, even one that is one size larger than you, doesn't have the appropriate anatomy to serve as a mount, thus doesn't have the anatomy to wear a saddle either.

But if you would be worried that the possibility of abuse is very real at your table, you could add a line that states that humanoids can't be targeted by those spells.

[noob]

The DM's adjudication. As per the mounted combat rules :



I know that myself and any GM I play with would rule that an humanoid, even one that is one size larger than you, doesn't have the appropriate anatomy to serve as a mount, thus doesn't have the anatomy to wear a saddle either.

But if you would be worried that the possibility of abuse is very real at your table, you could add a line that states that humanoids can't be targeted by those spells.

You never specified in any of the rules for the spells you wrote here that the target had to be a mount(except in a single spell: Spiritual Chariot but none of the other spells mentions the concept of mount) nor that the mounted combat rules had to be used at any point in time with those spells.

[Damon_Tor]

The DM's adjudication. As per the mounted combat rules :



I know that myself and any GM I play with would rule that an humanoid, even one that is one size larger than you, doesn't have the appropriate anatomy to serve as a mount, thus doesn't have the anatomy to wear a saddle either.

But if you would be worried that the possibility of abuse is very real at your table, you could add a line that states that humanoids can't be targeted by those spells.

Even with all that, many of these spells would still be pretty bent on a Moon Druid.

[GalacticAxekick]

What prevents a normal person from wearing the saddle to be the target of those spells?Rules as written? Nothing says a normal person can't wear a saddle.

Rules as intended? The description of the riding saddle item says "A standard saddle for a riding mount." And the rules for mounted combat say "A willing creature [...] that has an appropriate anatomy can serve as a mount". So it follows that the riding saddle is "a standard saddle for a creature that has appropriate anatomy".

Rules aside, common sense? Normal people can't wear saddles!

[JNAProductions]

Rules as written? Nothing says a normal person can't wear a saddle.

Rules as intended? The description of the riding saddle item says "A standard saddle for a riding mount." And the rules for mounted combat say "A willing creature [...] that has an appropriate anatomy can serve as a mount". So it follows that the riding saddle is "a standard saddle for a creature that has appropriate anatomy".

Rules aside, common sense? Normal people can't wear saddles!

Yes they can.
It'd look goofy and wouldn't fit well, but they certainly CAN.

[GalacticAxekick]

Yes they can.
It'd look goofy and wouldn't fit well, but they certainly CAN.If you want to stretch the definition of "wear", sure. Humans can wear saddles. Boots of Speed can go on your hands. Etc

I would never.

[JNAProductions]

If you want to stretch the definition of "wear", sure. Humans can wear saddles. Boots of Speed can go on your hands. Etc

I would never.

I'm pretty sure they make saddles for people. For, you know. Reasons.

I would either specify that these spells must target a beast, or possibly make them upcasts of Find Steed? Or just related to that spell in general?

Admittedly, if you're at a table that's cool with homebrew, I would also assume that they're chill enough to abuse rules, but at the same time, a little clean-up would help.

[GalacticAxekick]

I'm pretty sure they make saddles for people. For, you know. Reasons.And such saddles are specifically designed to fit people. Such saddles are entirely unfit for horses.

5e has the Exotic Saddle specifically for oddly shaped mounts.


Admittedly, if you're at a table that's cool with homebrew, I would also assume that they're chill enough to abuse rulesThe way I see it, homebrew exists to adjudicate things the official rules fail to cover or cover poorly. No rules for X style of combat? Homebrew them! No rules for Y magic? Homebrew them! Crappy rules for Z activity? Homebrew them!

Abusing rules doesnt accomplish this. Wearing boots on your hands or a horse's saddle on your head neither fills the gaps in the official rules nor replaces an unfun/unbalanced rule.

I would never see people abusing RAW at my table when RAI is blatantly obvious. So I wouldn't bother wording the game to avoid it (e.g. "boots go on your feet" or "saddles are for quadrupeds")

[Abuzorg]

Yes they can.
It'd look goofy and wouldn't fit well, but they certainly CAN.

That's very funny, but this is the sort of abuse that, in my book, falls in the same category as chain-simulacrums. It's possible by RAW, but people don't do it because it would break the game, the same way that stacking multiple non-concentration buffs on anything else than a warhorse or a griffon would be. There is an implicit social contract at all gaming tables and I'd wager that most of them wouldn't tolerate sticking saddles on humanoid's for min/maxing.



Even with all that, many of these spells would still be pretty bent on a Moon Druid.
That is a very good point. But the tactic would be limited by the fact that you need to have the druid wildshape first, then have the saddle strapped on its back. It's doable, but you can't pop it in the midst of combat just like that. The issue is more problematic in the case of a Centaur PC, now that I think about it.




I would either specify that these spells must target a beast, or possibly make them upcasts of Find Steed? Or just related to that spell in general?


Citing the specific creatures that you can summon with Find Steed or Find greater steed as legal targets would be a good solution!

[JNAProductions]

And such saddles are specifically designed to fit people. Such saddles are entirely unfit for horses.

5e has the Exotic Saddle specifically for oddly shaped mounts.

[QUOTE]Admittedly, if you're at a table that's cool with homebrew, I would also assume that they're chill enough to abuse rules/QUOTE]The way I see it, homebrew exists to adjudicate things the official rules fail to cover or cover poorly. No rules for X style of combat? Homebrew them! New rules for Y magic? Homebrew them? Crappy rules for Z activity? Homebrew them!

Abusing rules doesnt accomplish this. Wearing boots on your hands or a horse's saddle on your head neither fills the gaps in the official rules nor replaces an unfun/unbalanced rule.

I would never see the latter at my table. So I wouldn't bother working the game to avoid it (e.g. "boots go on your feet" or "saddles are for quadrupeds")

So, if I wanted to ride a battle-crab, I couldn't do it at your table? It has eight legs, not four.
What about a Displacer Beast? Six legs there, if I recall correctly.

Again-I don't anticipate it being a real issue at any table that allows these spells (they'd either use them as intended, and it'd be fine; or they'd use them on PCs who wouldn't normally be mounts, but would be fine with the power level of them anyway) but cleaning up the wording better match intent isn't a bad thing to do.

[Damon_Tor]

That is a very good point. But the tactic would be limited by the fact that you need to have the druid wildshape first, then have the saddle strapped on its back. It's doable, but you can't pop it in the midst of combat just like that. The issue is more problematic in the case of a Centaur PC, now that I think about it.

A 10th level druid can stay in wildshape for 5 hours. The amount of time it takes to strap on a saddle isn't given, but in the real world it takes 10-15 minutes. That's not really a huge burden, and well worth it considering the power level of these spells.

[GalacticAxekick]

So, if I wanted to ride a battle-crab, I couldn't do it at your table? It has eight legs, not four.
What about a Displacer Beast? Six legs there, if I recall correctly.Once again, 5e has the Exotic Saddle specifically for oddly shaped mounts. You want to ride a giant crab? You'd need a special saddle at my table.

Cleaning up the wording to make these things clear isnt bad, but common sense addresses just about all of it, so I wouldn't criticize homebrew for not stating the obvious.