Build this with (mostly) bard

[Zhentarim]

https://youtu.be/aHlFYHticq4
I'm thinking this dual-whip-wielding character might be fun, and while fighter of some kind would probably be best mechanically, I like having some social skills and knowledge skills outside of combat so I have something to do outside of combat, so I usually play lore bards as my default character. This character probably wouldn't be a lore bard this time. I'm wondering if I should start with a level of fighter before going bard, and regardless of if I dip fighter for 1st level or not, which bard college I should go with.

[KorvinStarmast]

https://youtu.be/aHlFYHticq4
I'm thinking this dual-whip-wielding character might be fun, and while fighter of some kind would probably be best mechanically, I like having some social skills and knowledge skills outside of combat so I have something to do outside of combat, so I usually play lore bards as my default character. This character probably wouldn't be a lore bard this time. I'm wondering if I should start with a level of fighter before going bard, and regardless of if I dip fighter for 1st level or not, which bard college I should go with. If you do play this as a bard, make sure to get good with music by Devo (https://youtu.be/j_QLzthSkfM). And get one of those cool hats. :smallconfused:

[meandean]

So, to be a dual whip wielder:


You'll need the Dual Wielder feat, since whips (for some reason) don't have the "light" property.
You can't be a primary spellcaster, since both hands are wielding weapons. (You could of course still cast verbal-only spells, and War Caster would let you cast spells without material components. Two such spells are shield and absorb elements, so one could imagine a 1-level dip that could work... if you're willing to sacrifice both a level and a feat for it, that is. But I don't see you being able to push spellcasting any further than that.)
Since you don't have a shield, you'll need either a way to have decent AC regardless (heavy armor proficiency, Unarmored Defense, ​mage armor), or the ability to pair high Dexterity with damage-reducing reactions. (Since you need a feat to even do the basic thing you're trying to do, it seems inevitable your species will be variant human or custom lineage, ruling out natural-AC species such as Tortle.)
It'd be real nice to have something that consistently increases damage, since whips have a low damage die.

And on top of that, you specified you wanted "social or knowledge skills", i.e. Intelligence or Charisma, even though you're not going to be a primary spellcaster.

Difficult! Your options here feel very limited.


A Paladin, probably Vengeance so you can hopefully crit/smite and actually do some damage. Again, you would basically never be casting spells. Variant Human, 8/16/14/8/8/16, start with Dual Wielder, take Fighting Initiate (Two-Weapon Fighting) at 4th.
A Dexterity-based Ancestral Guardians Barbarian. Rage damage bonus doesn't apply to Dexterity-based attacks, so this would be entirely about hit-and-run... "tagging" enemies to encourage them to target you, and then making it difficult to do so. You unfortunately can't have two "marked" targets simultaneously, which would have made this a lot better. Same setup as before, except swap Constitution and Charisma.
Battle Master Fighter, same setup as Barbarian and kind of the same idea... you haven't done much to increase damage, but you're using maneuvers to inflict statuses. It's possible that Lunging/Pushing Attack, and maybe some of the others, will have a little more utility with more reach. You at least would have TWF fighting style from the jump, and wouldn't have to waste a feat on it.
Although Rangers can only realistically have high Intelligence or Charisma if they dump Wisdom, there might be enough spells that don't depend on Wisdom (e.g. pass without trace) to make that viable, and honestly a lot of Rangers hardly ever cast spells anyway. Favored Foe gives a tiny damage bonus, as do several subclasses, and they get TWF fighting style. I'm not gonna delve into this further because I'd need to scrutinize the spell list, but it might be something.
Fighter 1/Inquisitive Rogue X. Whereas the previous suggestions feel super-jank, this one actually kind of makes sense. Sneak Attack is equalizing your damage, and you'll be able to Sneak Attack someone standing in the middle of nowhere from 10 feet away. In between the reach and being a Rogue in the first place, this character would be tough to pin down on the battlefield. Here I'd suggest Custom Lineage, and a line like 8/17/12/14/14/8, with your proficiencies/expertises going towards knowledge skills (but you will need to prioritize Insight).

[Christew]

https://youtu.be/aHlFYHticq4
I'm thinking this dual-whip-wielding character might be fun, and while fighter of some kind would probably be best mechanically, I like having some social skills and knowledge skills outside of combat so I have something to do outside of combat, so I usually play lore bards as my default character. This character probably wouldn't be a lore bard this time. I'm wondering if I should start with a level of fighter before going bard, and regardless of if I dip fighter for 1st level or not, which bard college I should go with.
Well, if you don't dip fighter (or have another method of gaining martial weapon proficiency) then Valor is the only bard subclass that is going to be able to use a whip proficiently.

Fighter 1/ Sword Bard X might work. Gives you two fighting styles, so you could get Two Weapon Fighting and something like Defense or Superior Technique, plus flourishes would help with that d4 damage dice (though you can burn through inspiration pretty quickly).

[Bobthewizard]

With the requirements of using two whips and primarily a bard, I would recommend some serious fluffing instead of trying to push the square peg of dual wielding into the round hole of spellcasting.

So while the image is dual wielding whips, mechanically just use one whip and have your other hand free. Take the dueling fighting style for a little extra damage.

Then, I'd take two levels of paladin and the rest swords bard so you can use flourishes and smites with the whip. Once you get extra attack, you can fluff the second attack as the off-hand.

Almost all DMs I've played with would allow this.

With swords bard, you can use a weapon as your focus, so if you wanted to dual weild, you wouldn't need warcaster for your bard spells (except those with S components and not M).

[meandean]

With swords bard, you can use a weapon as your focus, so if you wanted to dual weild, you wouldn't need warcaster for your bard spells (except those with S components and not M).Ooh, that's a good catch with the Swords Bard... and they get TWF fighting style as well. Considering the dude wanted to play a bard in the first place, Fighter 1/Swords Bard X definitely sounds like the best option.

V/S Bard spells, according to D&D Beyond:

Cantrips: Blade ward, mage hand, prestidigitation
1st: Charm person, cure wounds, detect magic, disguise self, earth tremor, heroism, speak with animals, thunderwave
2nd: Calm emotions, crown of madness, enthrall, lesser restoration, pyrotechnics, silence, skywrite, zone of truth
3rd: Bestow curse, dispel magic, enemies abound, plant growth, speak with plants
4th: Charm monster, compulsion, greater invisibility
5th: Animate objects, dominate person, mass cure wounds, modify memory, seeming, skill empowerment, synaptic static
6th: Eyebite
7th: Etherealness, mirage arcane
8th: Dominate monster, mind blank
9th: Power word heal

Some good ones there for sure, but only animate objects would pain me greatly. (And I guess you could take Satipo's advice and drop the whip, considering your first bonus action will be giving them a command anyway.) Seems totally doable.

[Bobthewizard]

Ooh, that's a good catch with the Swords Bard... and they get TWF fighting style as well. Considering the dude wanted to play a bard in the first place, Fighter 1/Swords Bard X definitely sounds like the best option.

I'm curious why you recommend fighter 1 rather than paladin 2. It seems like smites would be great for this.

[meandean]

I dunno that you want to have 13 Strength with this character, and you would get your non-TWF fighting style (Defense, presumably) and Bard stuff a level earlier. But I get your point, that would work as well.

[Hiro Quester]

You might also consider a 3-level hexblade (pact of the blade) dip. Then you can have one whip as your hex weapon and another as your pact weapon, both using CHA for attack and damage.

But even a 1-level dip on a swords bard is excellent. In addition to CHA to attack and damage, and proficiency with martial weapons, medium armor and shields, you get access to spells like Shield, Armor of Agathys and Hex for extra damage (though only 2 of the three for a one level dip). Three levels adds misty step and mirror image, which are not on a bard's list, and a couple of invocations.

Most importantly, it adds BOOMing blade, which seems thematically relevant. (Though this requires you to attack enemies within 5 ft, a whip can do that, even though it's a reach weapon; only a lance has disadvantage at 5ft).

And whatever you do, try to talk your DM into allowing a whip to be used for a grapple at range.

[Zhentarim]

Ooh, that's a good catch with the Swords Bard... and they get TWF fighting style as well. Considering the dude wanted to play a bard in the first place, Fighter 1/Swords Bard X definitely sounds like the best option.

V/S Bard spells, according to D&D Beyond:

Cantrips: Blade ward, mage hand, prestidigitation
1st: Charm person, cure wounds, detect magic, disguise self, earth tremor, heroism, speak with animals, thunderwave
2nd: Calm emotions, crown of madness, enthrall, lesser restoration, pyrotechnics, silence, skywrite, zone of truth
3rd: Bestow curse, dispel magic, enemies abound, plant growth, speak with plants
4th: Charm monster, compulsion, greater invisibility
5th: Animate objects, dominate person, mass cure wounds, modify memory, seeming, skill empowerment, synaptic static
6th: Eyebite
7th: Etherealness, mirage arcane
8th: Dominate monster, mind blank
9th: Power word heal

Some good ones there for sure, but only animate objects would pain me greatly. (And I guess you could take Satipo's advice and drop the whip, considering your first bonus action will be giving them a command anyway.) Seems totally doable.
These spells seem promising.

[meandean]

Sorry, those are the spells you can't cast when dual-wielding whips unless you have War Caster, heh.

Why is this? Swords Bard's Bonus Proficiencies lets you use the whip to substitute for the M component, which in turn means it can substitute for S/M (very appropriate for a whip-wielder...) if the spell has both. But, if the spell is V/S with no M, the Bonus Proficiencies isn't doing anything and you need War Caster. Yes, it's all very strange. Still, again, you can simply drop your whip.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

So, to be a dual whip wielder:

[LIST]
You'll need the Dual Wielder feat, since whips (for some reason) don't have the "light" property.
You can't be a primary spellcaster, since both hands are wielding weapons. (You could of course still cast verbal-only spells, and War Caster would let you cast spells without material components. Two such spells are shield and absorb elements, so one could imagine a 1-level dip that could work... if you're willing to sacrifice both a level and a feat for it, that is. But I don't see you being able to push spellcasting any further than that.)
Since you don't have a shield, you'll need either a way to have decent AC regardless (heavy armor proficiency, Unarmored Defense, ​mage armor), or the ability to pair high Dexterity with damage-reducing reactions. (Since you need a feat to even do the basic thing you're trying to do, it seems inevitable your species will be variant human or custom lineage, ruling out natural-AC species such as Tortle.)
It'd be real nice to have something that consistently increases damage, since whips have a low damage die.

I think there's a question to ask that could negate all that concern over AC and Dual Wield feats (Though you still need Warcaster probably)

Flavor is not the same as Mechanics in 5e, never has been. It's always been a game of "Describe whatever you want so long as you don't want to alter the rules."

So, does the caster WANT the bonus action extra whip attack? Or do they want the flavor of DualWielding whips?

Because you could Mechanically wield a Whip and Shield while flavor wise describing it as 2 whips, with you being so good that you can redirect attacks by either parrying with the hilt or by wrapping the whip on a limb to pull an attack out of alignment. (Similar to Chetney in Critical Role who mechanically is a Sword and Shield character but flavor wise wields a Chisel and a Hammer).

From there look into options for trick attacks and maneuvers. Ultimately I'd think at least 3 levels in Battle Master and College of Blades for the Bard.

Wear Studded Leather with a 20 Dex, or if you have space for the Medium Armor Master feat take Half plate with at least 16 dex. Wield mechanically a whip and shield, trick shot and flourish all day long.

[Christew]

Sorry, those are the spells you can't cast when dual-wielding whips unless you have War Caster, heh.

Why is this? Swords Bard's Bonus Proficiencies lets you use the whip to substitute for the M component, which in turn means it can substitute for S/M (very appropriate for a whip-wielder...) if the spell has both. But, if the spell is V/S with no M, the Bonus Proficiencies isn't doing anything and you need War Caster. Yes, it's all very strange. Still, again, you can simply drop your whip.
Yeah. Somatic but not Material is the issue condition. So you could cast Vicious Mockery (V), Light (V/M), Dancing Lights (V/S/M), and Friends (S/M) while holding two whips, but not Blade Ward (V/S) or Thunderclap (S).

The prohibited list should also include S only spells:
C- Thunderclap and True Strike
2- Kinetic Jaunt
5- Mislead
9- Psychic Scream
But the vast majority of bard spells would still be available to you while dual wielding.

[Zhentarim]

https://youtu.be/jBeZM4roOgI
Not only are whips a weapon, they are also a musical instrument.