Rich Told Us What Gender V Is!

[roy_greenhilt]

In the last comic, Durkon says "e's just dedicated to winning"! Durkon only says 'e' when he's talking about a guy!:smallbiggrin:

[Green Bean]

Do you know what Rich has also revealed?


Q: Is Vaarsuvius male or female?

A: I will never reveal the truth! Bwahaha! Keep in mind that while certain other characters might refer to V as being male or female, that simply reveals their perception.not the actual reality of the situation.

[NerfTW]

'e can mean "he" or "she". Both involve the dropping of the "h" sound.

Durkon's done it throughout the strip.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

For people who really want to know V's gender, but haven't figured it out yet.

(Yeah, it's spoilered.)

Male. V is, or at least WAS male when Rich started the strip. But someone came to the forum and made a big deal about how they could not tell if V was male or female. Rich thought it was funny, and rewrote V to be more androgynous.

And now you know.
And knowing is half the battle.

The other half is violence, directed at the enemy.


:smallbiggrin:

[Tempest Fennac]

Did that really happen? (I wanted to check due to the fact that your emoticon at the bottom of the post could be an indecation of sarcasm). Also, was V always intended to be a blaster? I don't think they used any direct damage spells until the Chimera battle so I was curious about whether V was originally going to be more of a tactical Wizard.

[Ancalagon]

Male. V is, or at least WAS male when Rich started the strip. But someone came to the forum and made a big deal about how they could not tell if V was male or female. Rich thought it was funny, and rewrote V to be more androgynous.
:smallbiggrin:

Who told you it still is male? V was in the head of the author male, but that was loooong ago. It comes down to a "We do not know and the probability is high that even Rich does not know (anymore)". ;)

[FujinAkari]

Did that really happen? (I wanted to check due to the fact that your emoticon at the bottom of the post could be an indecation of sarcasm). Also, was V always intended to be a blaster? I don't think they used any direct damage spells until the Chimera battle so I was curious about whether V was originally going to be more of a tactical Wizard.

As a note: Yes, Rich has confirmed that V was originally intended to be a male elf.

I don't remember reading anything about him being intended as a blaster, however.

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks for telling me (I just thought I'd ask due to how I'd haveexpected V to have used offencive spells in the first 2 or 3 battles).

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Thanks for telling me (I just thought I'd ask due to how I'd haveexpected V to have used offencive spells in the first 2 or 3 battles).

A lot of Magic Users prefer to hold back their most powerful spells for the "Heavy Hitters." Common goblins are mooks, why waste a Fireball or Lightning or even Evards Tentacles of Forced Intrusion when Sleep or long lectures will take them out just as easily? :smallbiggrin:

[SoD]

As a note: Yes, Rich has confirmed that V was originally intended to be a male elf.

She could be anything now.

[Spiky]

She could be anything now.

No, pretty sure Rich is still a guy.

[dwagiebard]

Do you really think that V is male or female? That would be such a boring ending. I think V is some sort of alien.

[Magnor Criol]

No, pretty sure Rich is still a guy.

*ba-dum-bum-pssh*



I'unno. I've always viewed V as a guy, and when I picked up the comic, I met the revelation that "we don't know V's gender" with mild surprise; I knew I'd never seen the gender specifically, but it just...seemed male. It still does, though that could be more a predilection to interpret it as male than because it has a more male "feel" to it. I've always just figured that V's a guy, and the Giant writes him as such, and he's just running the gag out for the gag's sake. (Also, to annoy people who complain about it.)

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Although I know what I know (see above spoiler), I see V as Female. Or possibly a gay male, prefering the "female role" in hir relationship with hir spouse.

But that's just my opinion, yours may vary. :smallsmile:

[DreadSpoon]

In the last comic, Durkon says "e's just dedicated to winning"! Durkon only says 'e' when he's talking about a guy!:smallbiggrin:

{Scrubbed}

[MCerberus]

I'm sick of typing out my whole "gender neutral wording" speech so I won't.



It means nothing.

[SPoD]

As a note: Yes, Rich has confirmed that V was originally intended to be a male elf.

No, he hasn't.

Rich confirmed that V was originally not intended to be ambiguous, but he has never confirmed what gender he (that is, Rich) intended Vaarsuvius to be. Merely that he intended it to be definitely one or the other, and that the confusion arose around OOTS #3.

If you can find anywhere Rich has actually confirmed V's intended gender, please do so and we can end this once and for all. You can't, because he hasn't.

[FoE]

I doubt we will ever find out V's gender. It's funnier that way. :smallbiggrin:

Even if we found out, there would no doubt be people who would say, "That's not right! V is clearly a male/female!" because that's the way they had always saw him/her.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

No, he hasn't.

Rich confirmed that V was originally not intended to be ambiguous, but he has never confirmed what gender he (that is, Rich) intended Vaarsuvius to be. Merely that he intended it to be definitely one or the other, and that the confusion arose around OOTS #3.

If you can find anywhere Rich has actually confirmed V's intended gender, please do so and we can end this once and for all. You can't, because he hasn't.

In No Cure for the Paladin Blues immediatly after strip 174, Rich writes several paragraphs about V and addresses V as He, Him, His, etc. throughout. Not a single female pronoun in the essay. And no androgynous (sp?) pronouns such as hir, s/he, 'e's etc. It seems quite clear to me that Rich originally intended V to be male, but decided that "?" was funnier.

[SPoD]

In No Cure for the Paladin Blues immediatly after strip 174, Rich writes several paragraphs about V and addresses V as He, Him, His, etc. throughout. Not a single female pronoun in the essay. And no androgynous (sp?) pronouns such as hir, s/he, 'e's etc. It seems quite clear to me that Rich originally intended V to be male, but decided that "?" was funnier.

Rich has said on this message board that he uses the male pronoun as the "neutral" one sometimes for V. And that still isn't an indication of what V was going to be when the character was created.

"What seems clear to you" is not the same as "Rich confirmed".

[HealthKit]

Well I for one hope that at some point in the story we get to meet V's "mate".
You just know he/she will be gender ambiguous as well.

[factotum]

How is "No Cure for the Paladin Blues" proof of anything? The essays in it were written LONG after V's gender became indeterminate, and you have to use SOME sort of personal pronoun to refer to him--the male pronoun tends to be the default in these circumstances (if you don't know the gender of someone you're sending a business letter to it's fully correct to write "Dear Sir", for example).

[Wikkin]

There was a really early comic in which Roy states "V-Man is casting Identify" (on the belt of gender changing). Seems pretty obvious that he was intended to be male, but once the androgenous gag started, Rich just kinda went with it. Now it's hilarity.

[SPoD]

There was a really early comic in which Roy states "V-Man is casting Identify" (on the belt of gender changing). Seems pretty obvious that he was intended to be male, but once the androgenous gag started, Rich just kinda went with it. Now it's hilarity.

Sigh. As I said, Rich has stated that the ambiguity thing began after OOTS #3. That comic was OOTS #9.

[BigBooter]

Has anyone noticed that the Giant's art-style determines gender by the shape of the head (phrenology, is it? :smallwink: ) ???

For example: Roy and the gender-changing belt... notice how the shape of his head altered when he became a woman? Rich tends to draw females with the eyes further down the sphere of the head, and males with their eyes near the top of the sphere (implying something about 'low-brow' men and 'high-brow' women, maybe? Oooh, controversial :smallbiggrin: )

Seriously, though, has anyone measured V's features and compared them to, say, Roy, Haley, Nale, Sabine, etc...? The devil is in the detail... :smallamused:

[Doopliss]

I seem to recall them trying it once, and V's eyes (the primary way of telling) ended up in-between the standard male and female ones. :smallbiggrin:

[krossbow]

I've always seen V as being female myself.

[BigBooter]

I seem to recall them trying it once, and V's eyes (the primary way of telling) ended up in-between the standard male and female ones. :smallbiggrin:

Ah cool thanks for that! I thought it was just me :smallwink:

Personally, I like the idea of V being androgynous, for no other reason than the persistent humour value of it all! :smallbiggrin: If only Legolas had been more of a 'man' :smallwink:

:vaarsuvius: "While I enjoy the work of Judy Garland as much as does the next elf..."

[rankrath]

ugh, *facepalm* Why can't people see the light? V is female for 2 BIG reasons;

1: Her name: V. V is also the symbol of fertility and womanhood, much the same way ^ is the symbol of manhood. If V was male, her name would be
A.

2: V is an elf, and we all know that there are no male elves, just crossdressers with small boobs.

[Gri]

In oots #2 v has "male" eyes

[A Rainy Knight]

V's gender will never be decisively revealed, as it's one of the running jokes. Every character has their own perception of V's gender, such as a strip in which Nale refers to V as "that elf chick" and Sabine calls V "the elf dude."

[Kish]

As a note: Yes, Rich has confirmed that V was originally intended to be a male elf.

:smallsigh: No. He has not. He has confirmed that V originally had a defined gender. He very carefully avoided saying which it was.

[Klaz Eidron]

Rankrath, the name is still ambiguous, it has the 'V' sign as you say, but it also ends in -us, which implies that it's a male name.

[Mauve Shirt]

Rankrath, V's name is Vaarsuvius, it's not just V. It has a V in it, but that's not definitive, it also ends in -us which is masculine.

[Mauve Shirt]

Whoops, sorry Klaz for my redundancy.

[Antamar]

I've always seen V as one of those girly elf males myself. So far, the only well-defined male elves I've seen and/or read are Elrond and maybe Drizz't.

[Gandal]

ugh, *facepalm* Why can't people see the light? V is female for 2 BIG reasons;

1: Her name: V. V is also the symbol of fertility and womanhood, much the same way ^ is the symbol of manhood. If V was male, her name would be
A.

His/her name is Vaarsuvius, not V.
EDIT: Whoops, didn't see the second page of the thread. Ninja'd.

[Superglucose]

I think V is female for one reason: Haley sleeps in the same room as V. I have a feeling Haley would feel akward sleeping in the same room as some guy, even a friend like V.

[FujinAkari]

1: Her name: V. V is also the symbol of fertility and womanhood, much the same way ^ is the symbol of manhood. If V was male, her name would be A

I suggest you watch V for Vendetta

[rankrath]

yea, sorry about that, I was trying to make a joke, but like most of my jokes, it fell flat.

[Admiral One]

just be glad it isnt anime, then everyone would look like a chick.

[KBF]

just be glad it isnt anime, then everyone would look like a chick.

Rich wouldn't be able to run a forum like that. :smallamused:

[Mewtarthio]

just be glad it isnt anime, then everyone would look like a chick.

Except for the women. (http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=GWYE,GWYE:2006-33,GWYE:en&q=kino%27s+journey) I suspect the Japanese think it's really hot to not know somebody's gender. :smallwink:

You know, I'm curious as to whether V has a gender at all. I believe that, in the Richiverse, Elves reproduces asexually, via budding. Expect a hilarious scene in which the Order has to take care of some freakish elf baby growing out of V's torso like that mutant in Total Recall. I bet it'll be a Psion, too:
:varsaavius: "Bah, why must you waste your time on that nonsensical psionics when arcane magic is a far superior path to power?"

"Please, parent, you must understand that there are many legitimate paths to power. You must open your mind to them... Open your mind to them... Open your miiiiiind.... Open your miiiiiiiiiiind..."
As for V's mention of a "mate," I personally believe that we've misinterpreted that scene. In actuality, with all the talk of love, V's hard worked veneer of logic and study finally broke down under emotion, and for once we caught a glimpse of V's true nature: V is Australian. That also explains V's reaction to the Owlbear: Growing up around monstrosities like the duck-billed platypus and the kangaroo and the baby-eating kobold and Steve Irwin, V has rebelled against her environment and now refuses to accept anything that looks weird or crazy.

[Anteros]

Actually I would go so far as say that I'm certain what V is. Way back when Rich posted the OOTs vs. Miko fight he referred to V as a specific gender inside of that post. I would say which one, but I don't know how to make a spoiler tag. Anyway, while one could always say that it was a simple typo on his part, I personally believe that he just slipped and typed it considering that throughout the entire rest of the post he referred to V as "s/he."

I'm not even sure if it's possible to dig up a post from that far back, but if it is I'm sure someone can verify it.

[KBF]

And, you know, when a character in Rich's story says something, it is completely different from when Rich says it.

EDIT:


Actually I would go so far as say that I'm certain what V is. Way back when Rich posted the OOTs vs. Miko fight he referred to V as a specific gender inside of that post. I would say which one, but I don't know how to make a spoiler tag. Anyway, while one could always say that it was a simple typo on his part, I personally believe that he just slipped and typed it considering that throughout the entire rest of the post he referred to V as "s/he."

I'm not even sure if it's possible to dig up a post from that far back, but if it is I'm sure someone can verify it.

"He" is used when gender is unknown.

[turkishproverb]

I think V is female for one reason: Haley sleeps in the same room as V. I have a feeling Haley would feel akward sleeping in the same room as some guy, even a friend like V.

Unless V is Gay. I could see that as the reason Haley is so comfortable about those arrangements, and the reason she would feel the need to TELL people she had to room with V.

After all, we don't know ANYTHING about elven marital practices. :smallbiggrin:

[Wooter]

I suggest you watch V for Vendetta

I suggest you read V for Vendetta.

[hyperfreak497]

*Runs through thread*

AUUUUUUUGH VAAAAAAAARSUUUUUUVIUS GENDER DEBATE AUUUUUGH GET IT OFF GET IT OFF GET IT OFF!!!!!!!!

<.<

>.>

*Runs away*

[Anteros]

"He" is used when gender is unknown.

Except Rich used the term "S/he" throughout the entire post except for that one part.

Also, we hardly ever refer to things that do not have gender as "he." Boats, planes, or anything that is genderless is generally referred to by feminine terms. It's odd to say the least that Rich would randomly ignore this guideline. (Although it certainly is possible)
As far as actual evidence goes, there appears to be more to support the "V is a man" concept then the other way around. Naturally nothing is conclusive however, and honestly there is no solid evidence that V's gender has even been decided, but if one were to weigh the evidence that we have and ignore things such as "intuition" and "instinct." I believe the majority of the evidence at this time points towards V being male.

[KBF]

While I agree with "probably male," calling important objects she is a cultural thing. Usually when somebody holds something very dear to them, they call it a female.

[....]

Does it matter? At all?

V is an it. So what?

[Clertar]

I always thought V was a male, the doubt hadn't even crossed my mind until there started to be explicit references to it in the strips. Maybe because -us is a masculine Latin ending :smallconfused:

[monty]

I always thought the -us was just because it sounded like Vesuvius (with hir second "evil opposite" sounding like Pompeii).

[Grey Watcher]

As a note: Yes, Rich has confirmed that V was originally intended to be a male elf.

Where does Rich say that? I know that in the commentary in Dungeon Crawlin' Fools he says that "the gender ambiguity was not planned" but I don't remember him saying anywhere what V's gender was originally intended to be?

EDIT: After perusing the thread a little more closely, I find my question answered. I must remember to reread No Cure, then, because I don't remember that. (And, besides, as many have pointed out, it's traditional in English to use he, him, etc. when referring to a person of unknown or indeterminate gender. More modern documents take steps to avoid accusations of sexism by either using the feminine as the "default" from time to time (for example, read any of the books published by WOTC, and they sometimes use the masculine and sometimes the feminie) or by simply using the gender-neutral plural form (they, them, etc.). Still, to my knowlege, the more traditional use is still acceptable, so Rich writing a paragraph about V using masculine pronouns could easily mean he was trying to keep the letter count down to minimize printing costs.

And, strictly speaking, V wasn't originally supposed to EXIST. According to the aforementioned book (I think on the very same page), V was a last minute addition because he wanted a know-it-all to explain the premise of OOTS #1, and felt that having Roy (originally slated to be a Wizard, so I guess Eugene almost got his wish) do this would've violated his role as the "straight man."

[eof]

I suggest you watch V for Vendetta
Heh, I thought of V for Vendetta as well.

BTW, as a non-native speaker I have always thought "V" was a very elegant and clever invention by the Giant. He, she, V, it. (Read it out loud if you don't get it.)

[SensFan]

I don't get it...

[GenocideAlive]

HOLY WHO CARES, BATMAN!

Srsly, I can't believe people argue about this crap.

[GrayMatter]

I confess, I also once thought that I'd found a slip that confirmed V's gender (as female, actually), when Sabine popped out with "Thanks Sister" to V while drunk.

Now Sabine is a supernatural being, with supernatural senses, who I think we'd all agree is - uniquely - qualified to pass judgement on gender issues ;) . So I was thinking "AHA! TG slipped up, and now we all know the truth!"

However, TG has a clever habit of having characters refer to V as both genders at different times. I hadn't realized that during an earlier strip, Sabine had referred to V as "the elf dude" in a conversation with Nale.

I can still hear the sound of my little bubble of fame and glory popping lol....

[Clertar]

I always thought the -us was just because it sounded like Vesuvius (with hir second "evil opposite" sounding like Pompeii).

Yep, but regardless of it being intended or not, Vesuvius has masculin gender.
Just try thiking of real life women with names ended in -us...

[brilliantlight]

I think V is female for one reason: Haley sleeps in the same room as V. I have a feeling Haley would feel akward sleeping in the same room as some guy, even a friend like V.

Agreed, I think Haley would have a problem sharing a room with any man outside of Elan.

[Anteros]

I don't understand the entire "V slept in Haley's room!" argument. I mean, for one thing, the few times that nudity has been involved in the strip, Haley found it funny rather than embarrassing.

My other, far more compelling (in my opinion) point is that Haley quite literally spends almost every day sleeping a few inches away from her companions while adventuring. If she has no problem with sharing bedding areas with males during these times, I hardly think she would become a "proper lady" instantly upon entering a city. It's not as if she is sharing a bath with V or something.

Honestly, she probably just assumed that V would be the least perverted of the group. (I mean, even Durkon was listening at the wall, was he not?)

[turkishproverb]

Agreed, I think Haley would have a problem sharing a room with any man outside of Elan.

Sigh, to repeat my earlier point:

If V were simply Gay, it would explain that as well. It would also explain the reason that Haley needs to make the point about rooming with V to everyone. IF they were both female, they would've just assumed that those two would room together.

And after all, we don't know that much about elvish maritial practices....

[BigBooter]

Except for the women. (http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=GWYE,GWYE:2006-33,GWYE:en&q=kino%27s+journey) I suspect the Japanese think it's really hot to not know somebody's gender. :smallwink:

You know, I'm curious as to whether V has a gender at all. I believe that, in the Richiverse, Elves reproduces asexually, via budding. Expect a hilarious scene in which the Order has to take care of some freakish elf baby growing out of V's torso like that mutant in Total Recall. I bet it'll be a Psion, too:
:varsaavius: "Bah, why must you waste your time on that nonsensical psionics when arcane magic is a far superior path to power?"

"Please, parent, you must understand that there are many legitimate paths to power. You must open your mind to them... Open your mind to them... Open your miiiiiind.... Open your miiiiiiiiiiind..."
As for V's mention of a "mate," I personally believe that we've misinterpreted that scene. In actuality, with all the talk of love, V's hard worked veneer of logic and study finally broke down under emotion, and for once we caught a glimpse of V's true nature: V is Australian. That also explains V's reaction to the Owlbear: Growing up around monstrosities like the duck-billed platypus and the kangaroo and the baby-eating kobold and Steve Irwin, V has rebelled against her environment and now refuses to accept anything that looks weird or crazy.

:smallbiggrin: Love the budding concept... but it still takes a male and female plant for... oh, never mind... we still love :vaarsuvius: the androg :smallwink:

Now, speaking as an Australian... yes, Steve Irwin [RIP] had a lot to answer for, but now... he's probably laughing at us from the CG heaven he departed to...

Oh, and it was a dingo that ate the baby... but "Kobolds Ate My Baby!" would make a better title for a game, to be sure... :smalltongue:

[Spiky]

I think V is female for one reason: Haley sleeps in the same room as V. I have a feeling Haley would feel akward sleeping in the same room as some guy, even a friend like V.

Time to join the 21st century, bub.

[VanBuren]

yea, sorry about that, I was trying to make a joke, but like most of my jokes, it fell flat.

Much like Elrond's chest, I would have to guess... no?

[EvilElitest]

For people who really want to know V's gender, but haven't figured it out yet.

(Yeah, it's spoilered.)

Male. V is, or at least WAS male when Rich started the strip. But someone came to the forum and made a big deal about how they could not tell if V was male or female. Rich thought it was funny, and rewrote V to be more androgynous.

And now you know.
And knowing is half the battle.

The other half is violence, directed at the enemy.


:smallbiggrin:

That was just a pouplar theory, like V's gender, we don't know if that is true
from,
EE

[Gitman00]

Sigh. As I said, Rich has stated that the ambiguity thing began after OOTS #3. That comic was OOTS #9.

As a matter of fact, #9 was the comic that started the debate. I remember looking at the archived website once (I'll be buggered if I can find the link now, though). Back when OotS started, there was only one thread for the comic since it was, at the time, a relatively small part of the website. Roy's comment ("V-man") sparked a post that said something like, "V-man? I always thought Vaarsuvius was female."

Someone else responded with, "Well, I've always thought he was male." After a couple more posts, the Giant responded, since he was a much more active poster back then. He said something to the effect of, "I have no problem with V's gender being ambiguous. He/she is an elf, after all. And keep in mind that when Roy calls him/her V-man, that's only Roy's perception."

[Roderick_BR]

Durkon can't tell if V's a male or female also. I bet that the others members of the order pick a gender at the fly when referring to him/her also.

[Superglucose]

Unless V is Gay. I could see that as the reason Haley is so comfortable about those arrangements, and the reason she would feel the need to TELL people she had to room with V.

After all, we don't know ANYTHING about elven marital practices. :smallbiggrin:

No but we do know that Haley refers to V as a female.

[turkishproverb]

No but we do know that Haley refers to V as a female.

Really? When? Not that I don't believe you, but I'm having trouble remembering that.

[Wikkin]

I'm pretty sure that Haley knows what gender V is. Ask her.

:haley: "What? You guys didn't know that V was married?"

Pretty sure the two have a history pre-strip #1. Might also explain why V is so determined to find her right now.

Wik

[geekyhedgehog]

New idea (for once):
Haley seems to refer to (or at least think of) V as female, whereas the rest of the OotS thinks V is male (:belkar: I always suspected... (#28) )

just thinking.

[Lira]

No but we do know that Haley refers to V as a female.No. There is nowhere in the comic where Haley refers to V as one gender or another.
New idea (for once):
Haley seems to refer to (or at least think of) V as female, whereas the rest of the OotS thinks V is male (:belkar: I always suspected... (#28) )

just thinking.What proof do you have that Haley thinks of V as a female? She's never said anything which would indicate that.

[Runa]

HOLY WHO CARES, BATMAN!

Srsly, I can't believe people argue about this crap.

And I can't believe people bother to complain about people arguing about it.

Then again, I've always been far less perplexed by people wanting to use spare time thinking about and bantering back and forth about fictional characters in a comic strip they like to read a lot... than I am by people who actually waste time going to a thread about a subject they KNOW they inherently don't care about in the least, JUST to tell people "Waah, you're all stupid because you waste a tiny portion of your spare time discussing something I don't happen to care about, snark snark! I'm going to complain, even though complaining will do nothing productive!"

And making a snide, childish, all-caps insult to everyone in the thread, followed by netspeak and a complaint that people are arguing about "crap" in the most condescending tone that is humanly possible in English without actually delving into the thesaurus or the Queen's English? So TOTALLY wins your case. Which aside from trying to imply everyone in the thread was an idiot for even wanting to take part in the discussion, implying that this somehow makes you sooo much better than them... was what, exactly...?

"Srsly", GenocideAlive, if anyone needs to get a life, it's people who do just exactly what you just did. Because at least the rest of the people in the thread are achieving some form of personal entertainment. All you did was be rude for no other apparent reason than to, well, be rude. My question is... why? Why even bother? :smallconfused:

-Runa

[cavalier973]

Put me in the camp of those who would prefer never to find out. It makes it easier to think of V as a male in some situations, and a female in others.

[Spiky]

And I can't believe people bother to complain about people arguing about it.

Then again, I've always been far less perplexed by people wanting to use spare time thinking about and bantering back and forth about fictional characters in a comic strip they like to read a lot... than I am by people who actually waste time going to a thread about a subject they KNOW they inherently don't care about in the least, JUST to tell people "Waah, you're all stupid because you waste a tiny portion of your spare time discussing something I don't happen to care about, snark snark! I'm going to complain, even though complaining will do nothing productive!"

And making a snide, childish, all-caps insult to everyone in the thread, followed by netspeak and a complaint that people are arguing about "crap" in the most condescending tone that is humanly possible in English without actually delving into the thesaurus or the Queen's English? So TOTALLY wins your case. Which aside from trying to imply everyone in the thread was an idiot for even wanting to take part in the discussion, implying that this somehow makes you sooo much better than them... was what, exactly...?

"Srsly", GenocideAlive, if anyone needs to get a life, it's people who do just exactly what you just did. Because at least the rest of the people in the thread are achieving some form of personal entertainment. All you did was be rude for no other apparent reason than to, well, be rude. My question is... why? Why even bother? :smallconfused:

-Runa

I can answer that, and I will attempt to use appropriate language, both non-obscene and I'll try to use that 'English words' stuff I hear about for semi-universal comprehension:

Because the question about V has been answered. In a different year, for Thor's sake. It isn't new, the answer hasn't changed, it won't change. And it was the author who answered it, so the answer should be as valid as any answer to any question that anyone might have.

So, threads like this are created by those either too selfish to search, too ingrained in stupidity to rationalize or the straight-up obnoxious with a very poorly developed sense of humor. Some of us think being stupid is the biggest waste of time there is. (and no, the irony isn't lost on me as I surf the net at 11:30pm) At this point in the history of this forum, I assume most are being intentionally stupid in a very low form of humor that makes puns look cool. It's the internet equivalent of sticking your hand over a stove burner for the 5th time today.

Some days, depending on the levels of irrationality impacting me at the time, I find threads like this more offensive than spam. I don't like to think of humans being this dumb, yet here is daily proof on a website I happen to frequent. It's actually embarrassing to walk upright after seeing such threads, I feel perhaps we could use some tails to swing from trees to match our collective intellect. The only logical conclusion to the existence of repeated stupid threads is that my species sucks. Damn, I hate it when logic hurts. I can only hope we are alone in the universe since the dogs, cats and birds haven't figured out just how stupid we are, yet. I don't dare ask the dolphins.

[monty]

I don't dare ask the dolphins.

What about the mice?

[Fin]

Characters have on a number of occasions referred to V with a definite gender, however this merely shows what that characters opinion of V is not what they know.

I would guess Hayley does know though as she is only ever willing to share a room with V so one would expect V to also be a woman.

[Gravedjinn]

I'm sick of typing out my whole "gender neutral wording" speech so I won't.



It means nothing.


Yet you felt compelled to let out your teenage angst instead of moveing on....

[factotum]

I would guess Hayley does know though as she is only ever willing to share a room with V so one would expect V to also be a woman.

Good Lord, how many times does it have to be said? Rich has said that any gender the characters in the strip perceive V to be is purely that--their perception of events. Haley might well think V is female, but that does not make her any more correct than Roy thinking V is male!

[Fiery Diamond]

Good one, Monty!

Yay, Hitchhiker.

The gender is not clearly defined; Rich has said so. However, that does not make it dumb for people to speculate and/or recite their perceptions.

My vote is for female.

-Fiery Diamond

[Sc00by]

V is Elf. Little else matters.

An Elf in PURPLE! I mean c'mon! PURPLE?!

Though now we know why. It's to go with the bags under her eyes.

The real problem is that unlike some languages English doesn't have a gender neutral pronoun. If it did then we could just use that to refer to V and there wouldn't be a problem. Maybe Elves get to choose and he hasn't decided yet? Remember that Elves are a whole different race and as no one has been able to study then in any detail there are many things about them that probably differ quite a lot from what we assume based on the study of Humans.

Oh and I agree with Surfing Halforc - not on the the proof - just that his assumptions are probably what Rich intended. He just hasn't actually written it down :mad:

[*Templar*]

V is Elf. Little else matters.

An Elf in PURPLE! I mean c'mon! PURPLE?!

Beg pardon? :smallconfused: V's robe is quite obviously red. The only thing purple is his/her hair.

[Anteros]

I can answer that, and I will attempt to use appropriate language, both non-obscene and I'll try to use that 'English words' stuff I hear about for semi-universal comprehension:

Because the question about V has been answered. In a different year, for Thor's sake. It isn't new, the answer hasn't changed, it won't change. And it was the author who answered it, so the answer should be as valid as any answer to any question that anyone might have.

So, threads like this are created by those either too selfish to search, too ingrained in stupidity to rationalize or the straight-up obnoxious with a very poorly developed sense of humor. Some of us think being stupid is the biggest waste of time there is. (and no, the irony isn't lost on me as I surf the net at 11:30pm) At this point in the history of this forum, I assume most are being intentionally stupid in a very low form of humor that makes puns look cool. It's the internet equivalent of sticking your hand over a stove burner for the 5th time today.

Some days, depending on the levels of irrationality impacting me at the time, I find threads like this more offensive than spam. I don't like to think of humans being this dumb, yet here is daily proof on a website I happen to frequent. It's actually embarrassing to walk upright after seeing such threads, I feel perhaps we could use some tails to swing from trees to match our collective intellect. The only logical conclusion to the existence of repeated stupid threads is that my species sucks. Damn, I hate it when logic hurts. I can only hope we are alone in the universe since the dogs, cats and birds haven't figured out just how stupid we are, yet. I don't dare ask the dolphins.


I'm so sorry great overlord that mine speaking on this subject hath offended thee. Truly we are but worms who may only bask in the glory of those who are far more intelligent than we. Thank you for pointing this out so that we may grovel at thine feet in awe.

Seriously, Shut up. You are calling people stupid for discussing comic characters on a forum specifically designed for discussing those characters. No one forces you to read it, you choose to simply so that you can act holier and all mighty.

I'm sorry you feel that no one should ever have a conversation again that you have already had, but no one is forcing you to participate in it. It takes literally less than half of a second for your eyes to skim past a topic that you don't want to post in, so stop acting all high and mighty just for the sake of acting all high and mighty.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Rich has said on this message board that he uses the male pronoun as the "neutral" one sometimes for V. And that still isn't an indication of what V was going to be when the character was created.

"What seems clear to you" is not the same as "Rich confirmed".

When Rich talks about V, he is usually careful to keep V's gender a "mystery."

But when Rich forgets, he uses masculine pronouns.

I know many people have so much invested in this theory or that one (see my posts on the Aboleth/Imp threads!) that they don't want to let it go.

V is is now V, even if V started as either a he or a she.

I also think:

Dumbledore wasn't gay until J.K. started on the final books. I think Jeanne Rowling was trying to tweak the nose of all the groups who had been saying Harry Potter was Satanic. :smallwink: I'm still reading the final book (Hey, I've been busy) so don't hit me with any spoilers from the second 2/3rds of the book, if you can possibly avoid it.

[Turcano]

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/6616/worfnotagaintk3.gif

[Tussy the Druid]

Nice one Turcano :D

I personally hope that the encounter with V's mate will end up being that they look exactly the same, save for a few differences in color. Then it will lead to Belkar with a frustrated face. Doubtful, but I hope for it.

[CommodoreFluffy]

V is Elf. Little else matters.

An Elf in PURPLE! I mean c'mon! PURPLE?!

Though now we know why. It's to go with the bags under her eyes.

The real problem is that unlike some languages English doesn't have a gender neutral pronoun. If it did then we could just use that to refer to V and there wouldn't be a problem. Maybe Elves get to choose and he hasn't decided yet? Remember that Elves are a whole different race and as no one has been able to study then in any detail there are many things about them that probably differ quite a lot from what we assume based on the study of Humans.

Oh and I agree with Surfing Halforc - not on the the proof - just that his assumptions are probably what Rich intended. He just hasn't actually written it down :mad:

You realize that there are HALF ELVES, which means that...you know, an elf guy...and an elf girl get a...a room and...you know...*Nudge Nudge* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVJOP1RdHC4)...Say no more.

[*Templar*]

You realize that there are HALF ELVES, which means that...you know, an elf guy...and an elf girl get a...a room and...you know...*Nudge Nudge* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVJOP1RdHC4)...Say no more.

Um, no, it means that an elf guy and a human girl (or vice versa) get a room and you know. The offspring of an elf guy and an elf girl would be...an elf. Not a half-elf, just an elf.

[Setra]

V is obviously an evil teacup.

Perhaps a Veecup.

[CommodoreFluffy]

I was just making the implication that they must have a very similar reproductive system (in exasperated John Cleese voice)

[slayerx]

For people who really want to know V's gender, but haven't figured it out yet.

(Yeah, it's spoilered.)

Male. V is, or at least WAS male when Rich started the strip. But someone came to the forum and made a big deal about how they could not tell if V was male or female. Rich thought it was funny, and rewrote V to be more androgynous.

And now you know.
And knowing is half the battle.

The other half is violence, directed at the enemy.


:smallbiggrin:
And one thing to keep in mind that Rich has the awesome power of "RETCON"!

It doesn't matter what Rich's original intentions were, as long as he does not say them with in the comic he can revese any decision and not have it come off as a contradiction to the storyline... Really another way of putting it, anything Rich states outside of the comic can be considered as non-canon unless Rich says otherwise, and anything non-canon does not count as valid information... Rich has never explicitly stated that V is in fact a Male or female and as such is free to reverse his original intentions at anytime

[monty]

I remember reading somewhere (probably the Book of Erotic Fantasy [long story, don't ask]) that most elves are bisexual. By that reasoning, there's no reliable way to discern V's gender by hir actions, since they'd be the same even with a definite male or female.

[DrivinAllNight]

OK, I don't know why I am bothering to throw my 2 cp into this mess but here goes.
I have read many people state that the Giant said this or that in regards to the gender of :vaarsuvius: yet I have never seen one link to an actual giant quote, and maybe that is because there are none past about 2 years ago, but either way, that still leaves this whole thing up in the air, so since everyone is entitled to their opinion, mine is going for the she's a Female, and while it could go either way, i look at the fact that other than using her hands for anything other than casting spells, V can't even use a bow, since that would be a male elf duty, or at least it has been a male elf duty from what I remember. Ok, that's my 2 cp, you all have a good night.

[monty]

In D&D, gender has absolutely nothing to do with character mechanics beyond social interactions with other characters, so I don't see why a bow would be particularly male.

[Covenantwgw]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I've always assumed V was female. I have no explanation or logic behind this belief. It just is. I never acually knew there was a question about it until I came to the boards.

[BigBooter]

I remember reading somewhere (probably the Book of Erotic Fantasy [long story, don't ask]) that most elves are bisexual. By that reasoning, there's no reliable way to discern V's gender by hir actions, since they'd be the same even with a definite male or female.

Thanks, Monty, I was beginning to wonder if anyone else actually *enjoyed* the ambiguity at all? Seems like most people here *need* a definate gender for all of the characters... :smallwink:

Like I say, Legolas should have been more of a man... then all of the generations of FRP elves wouldn't be suffering from gender ambiguity :smallbiggrin:

Ah, I miss the good old days... when men were *real* men, women were *real* women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were *real* small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri...:smallwink:

[Xandro]

Hi everyone

I don't know if this has been already suggested (it certainly has) but I'm too tired, to search all the V's-gender-threads. Hey, at least I'm not going to start a new one.

O.k., this is an idea that I got reading the thread about Therkla being the opposite Miko. It was suggested that each character has about the same class as its opposite. This statement has been more or less falsified but it stands that there is a strong correlation beetween both classes.

But then I thought: "Hey, there is still something each character has normally in common with his opposite - its gender!"

Roy and Thog are both male.
Haley and Sabine are both female.
Elan and Nale are both male.
Belkar and Yokyok are all male.
Belkar and Yikyik are both male.
Durkon and Leeky are both male.

O.k., there is one exception. Durkon and Hylga. But in six of seven cases, this is correct. It looks like a really strong correlation.

Zz'dtri is about as androgyne as Vaarsuvius but we know exactly the gender of Pompey. And he was male.

We now that 6/7 = 0,857 = 85,7 %

So there is a 85,7%-chance that V is male.

[Xandro]

I've still to add something:

Sorry, but I can't get math out of my head... (I'm writing my diploma thesis at the moment :smallyuk: )

I come to the conclusion that Zzt'dri has to be male. He is a parody of Drizzt Do'Urden and this drow is definitly male. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drizzt_Do%27Urden ).

I've never seen a parody of a character with the opposite gender.

So let us assume Zzt'dri male and do some math again.

The estimated probabilty of Vaarsuvius having a different gender than its evil opposites is 1/7. Than the probabilty of having a different gender than two evil opposites is 1/7 multiplied by 1/7 and it's 1/49 (It's the same with dice rolls: rolling a six has a probability of 1/6, rolling two sixes in a row has a probabilty of 1/36).

So if Vaarsuvius would be female, the probability for the observed gender of his evil opposites would be a little bit more than 2% (1/49). So with a probability of a bit less than 98 % we can negate the supposition that V is female (and therefore male)!

[Funmerchant]

Pompey was deliberately selected for his definate gender, thus removing him from any equation of probability.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0254.html

[FujinAkari]

Aaah, but by that logic, since the Order of the Scribble had 4 men and 2 women, and the linear guild originally had 4 men and 2 women, logic dictates V to be female :P

[BigBooter]

Hi everyone

We now that 6/7 = 0,857 = 85,7 %

So there is a 85,7%-chance that V is male.

...but we know that 100% of statistics can be biased by their assumption... :smallwink:

Seriously, though, like funmerchant said, Pompey was (finally) chosen by Nale, who was excited by the prospect of a 'definate gender identity' as a kind of 'opposite'... the ambiguity *is* the joke, and to clearly state :vaarsuvius: as either male or female completely ruins the joke, and negates all of the Giant-meister's efforts to keep one of the longest running OotS in-jokes alive... besides, it plays on the elf stereotype so well :smallwink:

[Xandro]

Pompey was deliberately selected for his definate gender, thus removing him from any equation of probability.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0254.html

He was selected for his gender identity not for his gender. Of course, the gender identity is clearly very opposite, but it also would have been possible to give Pompey a clear gender identity while being a chick. The thought that you can only have a clear gender identity if you are male seems ab bit sexist from my point of view :smallwink:

So he still counts.

Concerning FujinAkari's theory: There are only two examples for groups with four guys and two chicks. Really, that is a very small control sample... My control sample is more than three times bigger... :smalltongue:

[Xandro]

...but we know that 100% of statistics can be biased by their assumption... :smallwink:
:smalltongue:
I've heard it all before... but I'm one of the few people who know how to do it, how to avoid it, how to hide it and how to find out.



... the ambiguity *is* the joke, and to clearly state :vaarsuvius: as either male or female completely ruins the joke, and negates all of the Giant-meister's efforts to keep one of the longest running OotS in-jokes alive...
I'm not clearly stating V as male or female, I'm just talking about probabilities. We won't know before the Giant finally reveals this secret.

It's like Schrödinger's Cat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger's_cat). V is both, male and female as long as nobody knows for sure. But a good mathematican can definitly give a probability that this poor animal is still alive if we look at it or if V will finally be revealed male or female (if he will be revealed at all).

[Funmerchant]

Just don't be making a Buttered Schrödinger's Cat Array with Tigers, lest it results in exceeding 299,792,458m/s

Probability implies chance, where as the selection of Pompey is clearly documented in sufficient detail. The issue of matching V's gender was not Nales concern, as he is unclear as to V's actual gender.

[Xandro]

Just don't be making a Buttered Schrödinger's Cat Array with Tigers, lest it results in exceeding 299,792,458m/s
:smallbiggrin:

O.k., there are a few significant differences beetween macroscopic and microscopic physics but I hope the analogon was clear... :smallwink:



Probability implies chance, where as the selection of Pompey is clearly documented in sufficient detail. The issue of matching V's gender was not Nales concern, as he is unclear as to V's actual gender.
Neither was his gender identity. Pompey is chosen in panel 12 and his gender identity turns out in panel 13 (the last one). http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0254.html

It's the narrative element added by the Giant that everyone matches his/her opposite in a lot of aspects, evan if it's not considered during the choice. Either its the complete opposite (alignment, behaviour etc.) or very similiar (gender, class etc.). There are exceptions of course, that's why I only talk about probabilities not about determinisms.

[monty]

It's like Schrödinger's Cat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger's_cat). V is both, male and female as long as nobody knows for sure. But a good mathematican can definitly give a probability that this poor animal is still alive if we look at it or if V will finally be revealed male or female (if he will be revealed at all).

I'm glad I'm not the only one to think of that (I've mentioned it in a couple previous V's gender threads).

[BigBooter]

:smalltongue:
I've heard it all before... but I'm one of the few people who know how to do it, how to avoid it, how to hide it and how to find out.


When I was studying my maths major, I believe that I have heard in excess of 95% of my Stats 101 class express a similar opinion at one point or another... :smalltongue:



I'm not clearly stating V as male or female, I'm just talking about probabilities. We won't know before the Giant finally reveals this secret.

It's like Schrödinger's Cat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger's_cat). V is both, male and female as long as nobody knows for sure. But a good mathematican can definitly give a probability that this poor animal is still alive if we look at it or if V will finally be revealed male or female (if he will be revealed at all).

:smallbiggrin: Love the analogy! :smallbiggrin:

Since I am opposed to animal cruelty, I say: "Leave the cat in the box - don't ever open that lid!" :smallwink:

[monty]

Since I am opposed to animal cruelty, I say: "Leave the cat in the box - don't ever open that lid!" :smallwink:

But if you don't open, it's still dead. It's just also not dead.


This analogy also works for other unsolved mysteries like the MitD. Until we know what it is, it is, in fact, a tarrasque and Pun-Pun and Chuck Norris and whatever other random theories about it people seem to have.

[BURNhollywoodBURN]

In the last comic, Durkon says "e's just dedicated to winning"! Durkon only says 'e' when he's talking about a guy!:smallbiggrin:

Hmmm...
Consider this. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0177.html)
If Durkon knew V's gender, there would be no reason Belkar wouldn't. Also, maybe he just assumed it. It's very possible, before I looked on the, I thought V was supposed to be female.
So, *Ahem*
V'S GENDER WILL NOT BE REVEALED! EVER! STOP TALKING ABOUT IT! S/HE WILL ALWAYS BE AMBIGUOUS!
Thank you.

[Warlord JK]

I first read it and thought V was female just from his/her association with Haley. Never knew there was an argument until the strip brought it up and when I came to the forums.

[The Extinguisher]

I was just making the implication that they must have a very similar reproductive system (in exasperated John Cleese voice)

Actually...

Half-Dragons
Half-Aboleth
Half-Elementals
Half-etc.

Unless we assume every race in D&D are infact, the same species as everything else, then using science to explain breeding is just not worth it.

Just call it magic and be done.

[BigBooter]

But if you don't open, it's still dead. It's just also not dead.


No, it's not dead, because its mortality has yet to be determined... but if you open the box, and *determine* that it's dead, then you just killed a poor sweet innocent little Shroedy cat... and I'll tell the Animal Protection Society on you, yes I will! :smallwink: :smalltongue:

[BigBooter]

Actually...

Half-Dragons
Half-Aboleth
Half-Elementals
Half-etc.

Unless we assume every race in D&D are infact, the same species as everything else, then using science to explain breeding is just not worth it.

Just call it magic and be done.

:vaarsuvius: I am most curious... what is the 'science' of which you speak?
:smallbiggrin:

[Niknokitueu]

Although V's gender is stated to be ambiguous (by the author, no less!), I must say that V's language definitely comes across as male.

It is just something in the particular way V speaks, the language used at stress points, etc.

I know of no women that speak in the manner V does, whilst I can think of several men that do.

Assuming that the author intends V to remain gender-neutral, we must dismiss any existing observable gender-bias as just an unconcious projection of the author's own masculinity (assuming he is himself male, of course...)

So in answer, I believe V to be male, but accept that in perpetuity we just are not supposed to know.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[docstrange]

V has always sounded male to me too. Putting a female voice on his dialogue doesn't fit. Any ambiguosity just has to do with the fact he's metrosexuelf.

[monty]

Actually...

Half-Dragons
Half-Aboleth
Half-Elementals
Half-etc.

Unless we assume every race in D&D are infact, the same species as everything else, then using science to explain breeding is just not worth it.

Just call it magic and be done.

But sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, so what's the difference?

[raichi]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I've always assumed V was female. I have no explanation or logic behind this belief. It just is. I never acually knew there was a question about it until I came to the boards.

i have always felt that way too but after being involved on the boards for a while i have a bit of reasoning behind it
why would belkar kiss v is she wasnt a girl
yes i know the whole pseudo brain thing that put her into lust but if that was true why wouldn't durkon, he heals him, so thats nice, as such wouldnt he be on that side, unless there was some chemical persuation
so unless belkars gay, and thinks varsuvius looks good, or better than durkon, so thats my 2cp as to why varsuvius is a girl

[Surfing HalfOrc]

And one thing to keep in mind that Rich has the awesome power of "RETCON"!

It doesn't matter what Rich's original intentions were, as long as he does not say them with in the comic he can revese any decision and not have it come off as a contradiction to the storyline... Really another way of putting it, anything Rich states outside of the comic can be considered as non-canon unless Rich says otherwise, and anything non-canon does not count as valid information... Rich has never explicitly stated that V is in fact a Male or female and as such is free to reverse his original intentions at anytime

Of course Rich can RETCON Vaarsuvius, I never said he couldn't! But whenever Rich slips, he dafaults to male pronouns for V.

V started out as male, but was transformed to ambigous for the humor value.

I'm wondering where V will end up. S/he clearly has options.

[reorith]

just a reminder

there are no facts, only interpretations.

[Belkar Rocks]

OK, I have an idea. :smallsigh:

The next time someone posts a thread about how they absolutely know V's gender, or Rich's intentions thereof, we just respond by saying, "You know what? I never thought about it that way before. You're absolutely right." Regardless of whatever it is they're saying. And then quickly leave the thread and hope it just naturally slips off the main page so we don't have to keep looking at it. :smallannoyed:

It's just an idea.

[Niknokitueu]

You know what? I never thought about it that way before. You're absolutely right. :D

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[Belkar Rocks]

You know what? I never thought about it that way before. You're absolutely right. :DNo, no, I've reconsidered, and I've decided that you're right. Please forgive me. :smallwink:

[Roupe]

Roys Father would know, apperently he likes to scry on some females (or Haley at least) in the shower. Refrence strip 0510.

[FrostXian]

You know what? I never thought about it that way before. You're absolutely right.

[Covenantwgw]

V is an elvan chick until someone proves otherwise. This is my opinion and reflects nothing and no one else.

[Mc. Lovin']

In the last comic, Durkon says "e's just dedicated to winning"! Durkon only says 'e' when he's talking about a guy!:smallbiggrin:

I see nothing wrong with this argument. I think we're on to somthing here!

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Why is this getting debated? V is an elf, so it's not like there's a difference.

[monty]

How has this gotten to 5 pages without dying?

[chef781]

GGAARRGG!!! look, no offence, but it is obvious that there is no real answer. sure, rich may have some intent, but V denies gender related questions. i think it is a running joke and should be left alone. i mean, would you start a thread called "Roy has boobies!"? *gasp for air* i mean, rich won't answer, and a thread like this is debate. everyone has opinions, and, chances are, this is what this thread is about. i have read every OOTS strip in OOTS history. there is no real answer! (pant pant pant) wow, that took breath...:smallsigh: sigh, you can post your opinions all you want. i'm not stopping you from that,
but there is no answer to the life(of the strip)-long question, Is V male or female.:smallannoyed: :smallsmile:

Thank you,
Chef

[vivi]

How has this gotten to 5 pages without dying?

Lets let this die now

[mockingbyrd7]

V is an elvan chick until someone proves otherwise. This is my opinion and reflects nothing and no one else.

You know what? I never thought about it that way before. You're absolutely right.

[DrivinAllNight]

Lets let this die now

You know what? I never thought about it that way before. You're absolutely right. :smallbiggrin: