[Lore] Is there a scorpion deity in Faerûn?

[Condé]

Hi,

Vulkoor is, I believe, more of less the equivalent of Lolth in Eberron. Except he likes scorpions and not spiders and do scorpions thing like sting people on the face with his tail and do Drow things like stay in darkness all day. Which is fine, I won't judge.

Set might be the only deity related to scorpion... More or less. Apparently there is some Beast Cult in Zakhara who might worship scorpions but I can't find anything about it, except on the trivia part of the FR fandom website in the Scorpion article... Which is... Not much. And that is pretty much it.

My google-fu s a bit rusted since I can't find anything else. Is that possible, even with the undred thousand of billions of deities in Faerûn, there is no Scorpion-related deity? I would be surprised...

So I'm asking to people more knowledgeable than me on the subject. I'm going to confess, I'm not a Lore expert by any means.

If any deity could match what I'm looking for, I would be pleased to know it.

Thanks in advance.

[P. G. Macer]

Hi,

Vulkoor is, I believe, more of less the equivalent of Lolth in Eberron. Except he likes scorpions and not spiders and do scorpions thing like sting people on the face with his tail and do Drow things like stay in darkness all day. Which is fine, I won't judge.

Set might be the only deity related to scorpion... More or less. Apparently there is some Beast Cult in Zakhara who might worship scorpions but I can't find anything about it, except on the trivia part of the FR fandom website in the Scorpion article... Which is... Not much. And that is pretty much it.

My google-fu s a bit rusted since I can't find anything else. Is that possible, even with the undred thousand of billions of deities in Faerûn, there is no Scorpion-related deity? I would be surprised...

So I'm asking to people more knowledgeable than me on the subject. I'm going to confess, I'm not a Lore expert by any means.

If any deity could match what I'm looking for, I would be pleased to know it.

Thanks in advance.

I can hear millions of Eberron fans internally screaming at your first sentence. While Vulkoor is a draw deity in Eberron, Eberron as a setting is agnostic as to whether its deities actually exist, and Vulkoorism was merely one drow faith in Eberron, with other independent dark elf religions existing, namely the Umbragen and the Sulatar. Ironically enough, this somewhat mimics the post-2021 Salvatore retcon of drow in the Forgotten realms.

As for the main question, I’m as stumped as you are, sorry.

[Millstone85]

the FR fandom website in the Scorpion article... Which is... Not much.I looked for their scorpionfolk (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tlincalli) article instead and found this:

"Little was known about the tlincalli religion, but it was understood that Huoxopica and his wife Ixtilli were the two main gods and Corantllil was the tlincalli god of continual labor."

Sadly, these three do not have individual entries on the wiki.

[qube]

I looked for their scorpionfolk (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tlincalli) article instead and found this:

"Little was known about the tlincalli religion, but it was understood that Huoxopica and his wife Ixtilli were the two main gods and Corantllil was the tlincalli god of continual labor."

Sadly, these three do not have individual entries on the wiki.
I can somewhat elaborate on that. 3.5 had a book, Underdark, which decrirbes a city of scropionfolk: Oaxapupta
(sorry about any typo's - it's manual typing)


[the scorpionfolk] are a fatalistic folk who place great importance on omens and portents. Because they believe that the hour of their death is preordained, they fight with savagry rarely seen even in the Underdark. ... the city's leader spend a great deal of time in divination.
...
[they] have little intrest in capturing slaves [...] However, the diviners make good use of prisoners by sacrificing them on a regular basis
...
[in the former colloseum, they set up] a massive workshop of cleric who make healing potions nearly every day. Corantllil is the [scorpionfolk] deity of unceasing activity. These potions are dispensed to [scorpionfolok] for nominal offerings, but noncitizens must pay the normal price for them
...
Almost one in every 5 is a cleric, or belongs to clans that support the cleric caste. [they] require great amounts of healing, divination, and plenty of consecrated priets to cary out the multiple daily sacrifices at the Temple of Huoxopica.
Huoxopica and his wide Ixtilli, the two main [scorpionfokl] gods, require constant blood and activity to be sated and entertained.
While any productive [scorpionfokl] activity appeases the gods, only blood spilled at the temple goes straight to their throats. Thus, a steady supply of sacrifices is kept in a nearby pen.


It also notes

Authority figure Tluipacal (NE male [scorpionfolk] cleric 10), Lord Diviner of the Nest.

All [scorpionfolk] spellcasters, arcane or divine, are refered to as diviners


Not much, but it's something.

Presumably
- Huoxopica and/or Ixtilli are Neutral Evil deities (as the main cleric is NE) with something like death and fate as domains.
(edit: if I were writing this, I'd make Huoxopica a LE deity of fate, and Ixtilli a CE deity of death)
- IMHO Corantllil gives a lawful neutral vibes with something of a crafting domain.

[Psyren]

I can't speak to the Drow-specific aspects but, absent a specific scorpion deity they would probably fall either in the portfolio of other carnivorous predators (Malar) or venomous creatures (Talona). Personally I would associate them more with Talona as their venom is their most famous trait. I could also see Set from the Egyptian Mulhorandi pantheon being interested in them too.

[Condé]

I can hear millions of Eberron fans internally screaming at your first sentence. While Vulkoor is a draw deity in Eberron, Eberron as a setting is agnostic as to whether its deities actually exist, and Vulkoorism was merely one drow faith in Eberron, with other independent dark elf religions existing, namely the Umbragen and the Sulatar. Ironically enough, this somewhat mimics the post-2021 Salvatore retcon of drow in the Forgotten realms.

As for the main question, I’m as stumped as you are, sorry.

I... I'm sorry for all the Eberron fans over there as I do not know anything about this setting. (Except Vulkoor. I mean... I know its name. And that he is a scorpion-like drow.)


I looked for their scorpionfolk (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tlincalli) article instead and found this:

"Little was known about the tlincalli religion, but it was understood that Huoxopica and his wife Ixtilli were the two main gods and Corantllil was the tlincalli god of continual labor."

Sadly, these three do not have individual entries on the wiki.

Interesting. I didn't know about the Tlincalli religion either. Thanks for the information, I'll try to get further info on these ones.


I can somewhat elaborate on that. 3.5 had a book, Underdark, which decrirbes a city of scropionfolk: Oaxapupta
(sorry about any typo's - it's manual typing)


[the scorpionfolk] are a fatalistic folk who place great importance on omens and portents. Because they believe that the hour of their death is preordained, they fight with savagry rarely seen even in the Underdark. ... the city's leader spend a great deal of time in divination.
...
[they] have little intrest in capturing slaves [...] However, the diviners make good use of prisoners by sacrificing them on a regular basis
...
[in the former colloseum, they set up] a massive workshop of cleric who make healing potions nearly every day. Corantllil is the [scorpionfolk] deity of unceasing activity. These potions are dispensed to [scorpionfolok] for nominal offerings, but noncitizens must pay the normal price for them
...
Almost one in every 5 is a cleric, or belongs to clans that support the cleric caste. [they] require great amounts of healing, divination, and plenty of consecrated priets to cary out the multiple daily sacrifices at the Temple of Huoxopica.
Huoxopica and his wide Ixtilli, the two main [scorpionfokl] gods, require constant blood and activity to be sated and entertained.
While any productive [scorpionfokl] activity appeases the gods, only blood spilled at the temple goes straight to their throats. Thus, a steady supply of sacrifices is kept in a nearby pen.


It also notes

Authority figure Tluipacal (NE male [scorpionfolk] cleric 10), Lord Diviner of the Nest.

All [scorpionfolk] spellcasters, arcane or divine, are refered to as diviners


Not much, but it's something.

Presumably
- Huoxopica and/or Ixtilli are Neutral Evil deities (as the main cleric is NE) with something like death and fate as domains.
(edit: if I were writing this, I'd make Huoxopica a LE deity of fate, and Ixtilli a CE deity of death)
- IMHO Corantllil gives a lawful neutral vibes with something of a crafting domain.

Interesting too. I wonder if there is other books developing this part. Thank you anyway.


I can't speak to the Drow-specific aspects but, absent a specific scorpion deity they would probably fall either in the portfolio of other carnivorous predators (Malar) or venomous creatures (Talona). Personally I would associate them more with Talona as their venom is their most famous trait. I could also see Set from the Egyptian Mulhorandi pantheon being interested in them too.

Yes, Set is possibly the only one I would consider and even then it is pretty thin as the only scorpion related thing with set is a ceremony called the "Test of Venom". Which is not much...

[PattThe]

Kyuss wouldn't mind.

[Unoriginal]

Hi,

Vulkoor is, I believe, more of less the equivalent of Lolth in Eberron. Except he likes scorpions and not spiders and do scorpions thing like sting people on the face with his tail and do Drow things like stay in darkness all day. Which is fine, I won't judge.

Set might be the only deity related to scorpion... More or less. Apparently there is some Beast Cult in Zakhara who might worship scorpions but I can't find anything about it, except on the trivia part of the FR fandom website in the Scorpion article... Which is... Not much. And that is pretty much it.

My google-fu s a bit rusted since I can't find anything else. Is that possible, even with the undred thousand of billions of deities in Faerûn, there is no Scorpion-related deity? I would be surprised...

So I'm asking to people more knowledgeable than me on the subject. I'm going to confess, I'm not a Lore expert by any means.

If any deity could match what I'm looking for, I would be pleased to know it.

Thanks in advance.

The Mordenkainen's Tome of Foe gives the answer, and the answer is... Vulkoor.

Except in the Forgotten Realms (and other non-Eberron worlds) he is a servant of Lolth of very little notoriety.

[P. G. Macer]

The Mordenkainen's Tome of Foe gives the answer, and the answer is... Vulkoor.

Except in the Forgotten Realms (and other non-Eberron worlds) he is a servant of Lolth of very little notoriety.

Unfortunately, I’m pretty sure Wizards of the Coast is trying to pretend MToF no longer exists, given that they’ve stopped selling digital copies on at least two platforms. While the statblocks and race stats are officially depreciated, the lore is up in the air as to whether it’s still canon, though given Wizards’ infamous statement on canon in 5e, it’s either that or nothing for most of what it covers…

Circling back to the topic at hand, acknowledgment of Vulkoor outside Eberron is rather fuzzy in terms of canonicity, for the reasons I mentioned above.

[Unoriginal]

Unfortunately, I’m pretty sure Wizards of the Coast is trying to pretend MToF no longer exists

Quite true, but I'm not going to make it easy for them if I can help it. Unless they make a direct statement saying "the MToF is no longer canon", that is. They don't get to sneak-ban stuff.



Circling back to the topic at hand, acknowledgment of Vulkoor outside Eberron is rather fuzzy in terms of canonicity, for the reasons I mentioned above.

Well they haven't discarded the MToF explanation so far, so until they do I would say "Vulkoor is top god on Eberron, servant of Lolth elsewhere" is canon for now.

It's also a funny explanation, so I favor that.

[Leon]

If there isn't, there is plenty of room for there to be one.

[Condé]

The Mordenkainen's Tome of Foe gives the answer, and the answer is... Vulkoor.

Except in the Forgotten Realms (and other non-Eberron worlds) he is a servant of Lolth of very little notoriety.

I always thought Vulkoor was Eberron-exclusive.


Unfortunately, I’m pretty sure Wizards of the Coast is trying to pretend MToF no longer exists, given that they’ve stopped selling digital copies on at least two platforms. While the statblocks and race stats are officially depreciated, the lore is up in the air as to whether it’s still canon, though given Wizards’ infamous statement on canon in 5e, it’s either that or nothing for most of what it covers…

Circling back to the topic at hand, acknowledgment of Vulkoor outside Eberron is rather fuzzy in terms of canonicity, for the reasons I mentioned above.

As I said, not a bit lore nerd here. (And still I made a post about it... But for other reasons) I'm surprised they introduced Vulkoor to Faerûn. Did they do that because they didn't think about bringin back Eberron?


Quite true, but I'm not going to make it easy for them if I can help it. Unless they make a direct statement saying "the MToF is no longer canon", that is. They don't get to sneak-ban stuff.



Well they haven't discarded the MToF explanation so far, so until they do I would say "Vulkoor is top god on Eberron, servant of Lolth elsewhere" is canon for now.

It's also a funny explanation, so I favor that.

It sounds really strange to me to be honest. I know little about Eberron but I read somewhere they always wanted to Eberron to stay away from other settings.


If there isn't, there is plenty of room for there to be one.

Isn't it? Pretty confused there isn't one, apparently...

[Psyren]

Yes, Set is possibly the only one I would consider and even then it is pretty thin as the only scorpion related thing with set is a ceremony called the "Test of Venom". Which is not much...

You wouldn't consider Talona or Malar to care about scorpions? Why not?

[Unoriginal]

I always thought Vulkoor was Eberron-exclusive.



As I said, not a bit lore nerd here. (And still I made a post about it... But for other reasons) I'm surprised they introduced Vulkoor to Faerûn. Did they do that because they didn't think about bringin back Eberron?



It sounds really strange to me to be honest. I know little about Eberron but I read somewhere they always wanted to Eberron to stay away from other settings.

There is two editions and nearly two decades between "Eberron is its own thing" (notably, all 3.X settings were kept away from each other for the most part) and "Eberron is a world pretty isolated from the other ones, but still one of the many worldsin the same universe" (notably, even the definitively-still-canon Tasha's Cauldron of Everything mentions that some Eberron natives have traveled to Sigil).

Also it's less "Vulkoor was introduced to Faerun" and more "Vulkoor was mentioned as being (barely) know on other worlds".

[Millstone85]

I know little about Eberron but I read somewhere they always wanted to Eberron to stay away from other settings.
There is two editions and nearly two decades between "Eberron is its own thing" (notably, all 3.X settings were kept away from each other for the most part) and "Eberron is a world pretty isolated from the other ones, but still one of the many worldsin the same universe" (notably, even the definitively-still-canon Tasha's Cauldron of Everything mentions that some Eberron natives have traveled to Sigil).Including Crawford's own pet character, Vi, who we almost got on the cover of the Eberron campaign guide. Placeholder image, my foot!

Even now, despite the book's claim that...
In your campaign, you might decide that the barrier formed by the Ring of Siberys is intact, and contact between Eberron and the worlds and planes beyond its cosmology is impossible. This is the default assumption of this book.

the same book also gives us...
In the City of Sigil, artificers share discoveries from throughout the cosmos, and one in particular---the gnome inventor Vi---has run a multiverse-spanning business from there since leaving the world of her birth, Eberron.

Edit: Oh, the Tasha version is even better.
Artificers in the City of Sigil share discoveries from throughout the multiverse, and from there, the gnome artificer Vi runs a cosmos-spanning business that hires adventurers to fix problems that others deem unfixable. In Vi's home world, Eberron, magic is harnessed as a form of science and deployed throughout society, largely as a result of the wondrous ingenuity of artificers.

[Condé]

You wouldn't consider Talona or Malar to care about scorpions? Why not?

I would because... Well, I want to belive. But it has nothing official about it. It is never specified anywhre and does not appear in their portfolio. So we can guess it does but nothing proves it.


There is two editions and nearly two decades between "Eberron is its own thing" (notably, all 3.X settings were kept away from each other for the most part) and "Eberron is a world pretty isolated from the other ones, but still one of the many worldsin the same universe" (notably, even the definitively-still-canon Tasha's Cauldron of Everything mentions that some Eberron natives have traveled to Sigil).

Also it's less "Vulkoor was introduced to Faerun" and more "Vulkoor was mentioned as being (barely) know on other worlds".

Still sounds pretty odd to me, because I'm more a "3.5" guy than a "5e"... And Eberron is so isolated from the rest I don't see Vulkoor being in FR. (I wish he was tho)


Including Crawford's own pet character, Vi, who we almost got on the cover of the Eberron campaign guide. Placeholder image, my foot!

Even now, despite the book's claim that...

the same book also gives us...

Edit: Oh, the Tasha version is even better.

Never been a big fan of self-insert or, in that case, self-character-self into the lore. I don't know anything about his character so, maybe its good, maybe it is not.

Sadly enough, Vi is not a god from Forgotten Realms with scorpion-like features.