Death Saves - Ruling

[furby076]

Hey All

Question about death save
A PC making death save is unconscious (per PHB)

Page 198: PHB says Damage at 0 Hit Points. If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum, you suffer instant death.

Page 292: Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature

So two questions
1) If a creature melee attacks someone who has death saves, is it automatically a critical hit and deals 2 death saves
2) If a creature falls (not an attack, just fell) on someone who has death saves, is it considered an attack so then would be critical hit?

[J-H]

1) If a creature melee attacks someone who has death saves, is it automatically a critical hit and deals 2 death saves
Yes, if the attack hits. The attacker has advantage against an incapacitated target, but the attacker still must bypass armor and stab someplace important.

2) If a creature falls (not an attack, just fell) on someone who has death saves, is it considered an attack so then would be critical hit?
It's not an attack roll to fall on someone, but a Dexterity save to get out of the way, so my ruling would be no. This is a grey area. Other DMs may disagree.

[Zhorn]

1) yes
2) no

PHB p194, Making an Attack

If there's ever any question whether something you're doing counts as an attack, the rule is simple: if you're making an attack roll, you're making an attack.
If the damage isn't coming from an attack roll, then it is not defined as an attack




The attacker has advantage against an incapacitated prone/paralyzed/petrified/restrained/stunned/unconscious target, but the attacker still must bypass armor and stab someplace important.
bolded minor correction

[Oerlaf]

1) If a creature melee attacks someone who has death saves, is it automatically a critical hit and deals 2 death saves
Yes, if the attack hits. The attacker has advantage against an incapacitated target, but the attacker still must bypass armor and stab someplace important.

2) If a creature falls (not an attack, just fell) on someone who has death saves, is it considered an attack so then would be critical hit?
It's not an attack roll to fall on someone, but a Dexterity save to get out of the way, so my ruling would be no. This is a grey area. Other DMs may disagree.

The answer to the first question is yes only if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. If the reach is higher than that and the attacker is farther than that, it is not a critical hit and therefore inflicts only one failure.

The answer to the secobd question depends on the DM. If they use Tasha’s then the dalling creature deals damage and inflicts one failure.

[Chronos]

Under ordinary circumstances, one creature just falling on another one won't even do any damage. Maybe if the falling creature were exceptionally large or dense, but that'd be on a case-by-case basis. And even if it does deal damage, it's not an attack: When you attack an unconscious creature, it's assumed that you're trying to hit it in an especially vulnerable spot, and when they're unconscious, that's so easy that you get a free crit... but a creature just falling on you isn't even trying for a vulnerable spot, so it doesn't matter how easy it is.

[Jerrykhor]

No.2 scenario is quite interesting. Personally, I like to split the fall damage between the falling creature and the creature being squashed, though it depends on how you fall. If being thrown by another creature, I'd say its like the above.

If its falling like a la pro wrasslin Jimmy Snuka style, I'd probably rule it as an attack.

[CapnWildefyr]

Under ordinary circumstances, one creature just falling on another one won't even do any damage. Maybe if the falling creature were exceptionally large or dense, but that'd be on a case-by-case basis. And even if it does deal damage, it's not an attack: When you attack an unconscious creature, it's assumed that you're trying to hit it in an especially vulnerable spot, and when they're unconscious, that's so easy that you get a free crit... but a creature just falling on you isn't even trying for a vulnerable spot, so it doesn't matter how easy it is.

Yup. I could add some examples but then people would talk about that, not your point, which is spot-on.

[Keravath]

"1) If a creature melee attacks someone who has death saves, is it automatically a critical hit and deals 2 death saves"

Yes. IF the attack hits and IF the attacker is within 5' of the target it will be an automatic critical hit and deals 2 death saves.

Keep in mind that if the attacker is 10' or more away (ranged or melee) then the attack is a straight roll because the unconscious target is prone canceling the advantage due to being unconscious and it will NOT be a critical hit.

"2) If a creature falls (not an attack, just fell) on someone who has death saves, is it considered an attack so then would be critical hit?"

RAW. No. For several reasons.

- falling is not an attack so it doesn't count as a critical hit.
- RAW, only the falling creature takes damage. There are no rules that what they land on takes any damage. Many folks may house rule this but RAW only the actually falling creature takes damage.

If the DM decides that the creature used as a landing pad takes damage from the falling creature then it would be a single death save failure.

[Keltest]

"1) If a creature melee attacks someone who has death saves, is it automatically a critical hit and deals 2 death saves"

Yes. IF the attack hits and IF the attacker is within 5' of the target it will be an automatic critical hit and deals 2 death saves.

Keep in mind that if the attacker is 10' or more away (ranged or melee) then the attack is a straight roll because the unconscious target is prone canceling the advantage due to being unconscious and it will NOT be a critical hit.

"2) If a creature falls (not an attack, just fell) on someone who has death saves, is it considered an attack so then would be critical hit?"

RAW. No. For several reasons.

- falling is not an attack so it doesn't count as a critical hit.
- RAW, only the falling creature takes damage. There are no rules that what they land on takes any damage. Many folks may house rule this but RAW only the actually falling creature takes damage.

If the DM decides that the creature used as a landing pad takes damage from the falling creature then it would be a single death save failure.

Actually, as of Tasha's, there is a rule for falling onto another creature. It has to make a DC 15 dex save (or be tiny) or be knocked prone and take half the falling damage.

[Keravath]

Actually, as of Tasha's, there is a rule for falling onto another creature. It has to make a DC 15 dex save (or be tiny) or be knocked prone and take half the falling damage.

Thanks! I had not realized that :)

"Falling onto a Creature

If a creature falls into the space of a second creature and neither of them is Tiny, the second creature must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or be impacted by the falling creature, and any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them. The impacted creature is also knocked prone, unless it is two or more sizes larger than the falling creature."

So - since an unconscious creature automatically fails death saves, an unconscious creature would take 1/2 the damage and suffer a failed death save due to another creature falling on it.

[Hiro Quester]

The problem with falling on the dying PC making them fail the death save, is that you could auto-death someone who just dropped, before they even get a turn.

Stab them (auto-crit) two death save failures, then fall on them as part of a move action (falling damage causing another death save failure).

So no, I wouldn't allow a creature falling on them as a source of damage and death-save-failure.

It would only do damage if the fall was part of an attack like jumping on them from a height, elbow first or something like that (in which case it would not be an extra death save fail, in addition to the two from the auto-crit attack).

[Keltest]

The problem with falling on the dying PC making them fail the death save, is that you could auto-death someone who just dropped, before they even get a turn.

stab them (auto-crit) two death save failures, then fall on them (any damage is another death save failure).

So no, I wouldn't allow a creature falling on them as a source of damage and death-save-failure.

It would only do damage if the fall was part of an attack like jumping on them from a height, elbow first or something like that (in which case it would not be an extra death save fail, in addition to the two from the auto-crit attack).

I mean, the same restrictions apply on knocking somebody prone that way. Its flat out not possible for a majority of characters. You either need an enhancement to your jump height of some kind, 20 barbarian levels or a belt of giant strength that gets you to at least 24 str. If somebody wants to body slam their enemy to death or something and can get that kind of altitude on a jump, more power to them I say.

[furby076]

thanks all for the feedback