Ranged Kensei?

[Spacehamster]

With custom lineage and ability scores 10/17/14/8/15/8 and picking piercer as 1st level feat and fey touched as 4th level pick, at 5th you sit with 10/18/14/8/16/8, either after setup or if you have hunters mark cast before combat starts you do 2d8 + 2d6 + 2d4 + 8, probably pick up 1 level of fitting cleric for two more slots for hunters mark and some utility and 2 levels fighter for archery style and action surge.

So 5 monk —>1 cleric —> 2 fighter —> rest monk.

Remaining 3 ASI’s Sharpshooter —> 2 DEX —> 2 WIS

Being mainly a ranged monk you won’t be as ki hungry so the delay in ki points should be no biggie.

would this be a functional build?

[Rukelnikov]

Heya, that's probably gonna do fine, as far as playable is concerned, it will for sure be playable.

If you are interested in the more commonly talked about playstyle of the archer Kensei, its trying to use your bonus action for an extra attack with the bow every turn, which doesn't mesh well with HM since both require BA.

This is done by making use of Ki Fueled attack, but since the most reliable way to spend Ki without spending an action is Focused Aim, in case both your attacks hit you can't spend ki on FA, and can'tmake the third attack. That's where Deft Strike, Kensei's lvl 6 feature comes into play, if both attacks hit you trigget DS in your second attack, and can make the 3rd one.

However, if that's what you wanna go for, here's a suggestion for a similar vibe that may be interesting. Instead of taking Cleric for the slots, and Fighter for the style, why not go Ranger 3? You lose Action Surge which is huge, but with 3 levels you can go Gloomstalker, do an extra attack on every first round of combat, you can pick a different spell from Feytouched (you could pick Sharpshooter earllier) since you can pick Hunter's Mark from your regular Ranger spells, or you could also use Favored Foe instead of Hunter's Mark, which is a pretty similar effect, but doesn't require a BA to activate.

[Spacehamster]

Heya, that's probably gonna do fine, as far as playable is concerned, it will for sure be playable.

If you are interested in the more commonly talked about playstyle of the archer Kensei, its trying to use your bonus action for an extra attack with the bow every turn, which doesn't mesh well with HM since both require BA.

This is done by making use of Ki Fueled attack, but since the most reliable way to spend Ki without spending an action is Focused Aim, in case both your attacks hit you can't spend ki on FA, and can'tmake the third attack. That's where Deft Strike, Kensei's lvl 6 feature comes into play, if both attacks hit you trigget DS in your second attack, and can make the 3rd one.

However, if that's what you wanna go for, here's a suggestion for a similar vibe that may be interesting. Instead of taking Cleric for the slots, and Fighter for the style, why not go Ranger 3? You lose Action Surge which is huge, but with 3 levels you can go Gloomstalker, do an extra attack on every first round of combat, you can pick a different spell from Feytouched (you could pick Sharpshooter earllier) since you can pick Hunter's Mark from your regular Ranger spells, or you could also use Favored Foe instead of Hunter's Mark, which is a pretty similar effect, but doesn't require a BA to activate.

Interesting, thanks for the insight. :)

[Rukelnikov]

Interesting, thanks for the insight. :)

Welcome!!!

[RogueJK]

Instead of taking Cleric for the slots, and Fighter for the style, why not go Ranger 3? You lose Action Surge which is huge, but with 3 levels you can go Gloomstalker, do an extra attack on every first round of combat, you can pick a different spell from Feytouched (you could pick Sharpshooter earllier) since you can pick Hunter's Mark from your regular Ranger spells, or you could also use Favored Foe instead of Hunter's Mark, which is a pretty similar effect, but doesn't require a BA to activate.

You'd also get an additional skill proficiency from multiclassing into Ranger, and a skill Expertise from Canny at Ranger 1.


Just note that you'd want to hit Monk 6 before considering multiclassing. The Level 6 ability Deft Strike is one of the two key ways for a Ranged Kensei to trigger a third Bonus Action ranged attack, via Ki Fueled Attack. The idea is that if you miss with an attack, you can use 1 Ki on Focused Aim and trigger a BA ranged attack, or if you hit with an attack you can use 1 Ki on Deft Strike and trigger a BA ranged attack. In either scenario, you have the option to trigger a BA attack. Whereas if you stop at Monk 5, you can only trigger the BA ranged attack if you miss.


But you run into the fact that Monks get something good at just about every level. So if you're going Monk 6, you might as well go Monk 7 for Evasion and Stillness of Mind. And if you're going 7, you might as well go 8 for the ASI. Etc. Plus the fact that a Ranged Kensei will often be wanting to spend at least 1 Ki point each turn to trigger their 3rd attack, and the Ki Pool only grows with Monk levels. Only having 5-6 Ki for an additional 3+ levels while you multiclass will feel limiting. All these factors are why most Ranged Kensei builds generally don't multiclass, outside of the occasional Fighter 1 dip just for Archery fighting style, usually in later Tier 2ish (Character Level 7/8/9).


A Ranged Kensei (with or without multiclassing) also works well with the Gunner feat and a Musket. You trade the Longbow's long range for the Musket's higher damage dice of 1d12. You can also make ranged attacks against adjacent foes without penalty. "Gunk" builds (Gun Monk) have been discussed several times here on the forum. That'd look something like this:

Custom Lineage Kensei Monk X
STR 10
DEX 15+2
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 15
CHA 8
Gunner (18 DEX) at Level 1, then Fey Touched (16 WIS) at Level 4, then Sharpshooter at Level 8, then 20 DEX at Level 12.
With the option of a Fighter 1 dip after Monk 8 for Archery Fighting Style

[Leon]

If you are interested in the more commonly talked about playstyle of the archer Kensei, its trying to use your bonus action for an extra attack with the bow every turn, which doesn't mesh well with HM since both require BA.


It meshes fine, if your moving HM every turn then your shooting at things that didn't need it cast on it.

[renzdog]

If blood hunter is allowed, 2 levels gets you archery fighting style and rite ... which is kind of like a super hunter's mark (lasts until the next short rest and doesn't require a bonus action to switch). A third level would get you hex ... or another subclass ability. I think you are going to suffer from some bonus action clog between kensai's shot and hex/hunter's mark.

[RogueJK]

I think you are going to suffer from some bonus action clog between kensai's shot and hex/hunter's mark.

As well as the frequent Bonus Action attacks from Ki-Fueled Attack.

[strangebloke]

Yeah hunter's mark is almost completely redundant on a Kensei, because they already have kensei's shot. Sure, maybe you don't activate KFA, already have HM on a target AND use kensei's shot, but this is a very niche situation lol. Definitely not worth a feat. Fey touched would be way better spent on silvery barbs, but overall I'd just skip it.

I'd also really question why you aren't taking sharpshooter? Fighter archery gives +2 attack, bless gives +1d4, and focused aim can easily give you +2 to +6 after the role which allows you to be really efficient with ki. You can easily end up with like +13.5 to your attack rolls, and if you do use focused aim or deft strike, you'll get three attacks a turn. Heck you can even take an extra level of fighter for BM/precision attack, or just stick it out in Kensei until you have STB available for that extra +3.

My advice? vhuman take sharpshooter at 1, then boost DEX at monk 4 whenever you get there.

[Psyren]

OP is taking SS at 8th but I agree, there's no reason to wait that long, grab it at 1st or 4th. I would take it over Piercer even.

[Khrysaes]

Heya, that's probably gonna do fine, as far as playable is concerned, it will for sure be playable.

If you are interested in the more commonly talked about playstyle of the archer Kensei, its trying to use your bonus action for an extra attack with the bow every turn, which doesn't mesh well with HM since both require BA.

This is done by making use of Ki Fueled attack, but since the most reliable way to spend Ki without spending an action is Focused Aim, in case both your attacks hit you can't spend ki on FA, and can'tmake the third attack. That's where Deft Strike, Kensei's lvl 6 feature comes into play, if both attacks hit you trigget DS in your second attack, and can make the 3rd one.

However, if that's what you wanna go for, here's a suggestion for a similar vibe that may be interesting. Instead of taking Cleric for the slots, and Fighter for the style, why not go Ranger 3? You lose Action Surge which is huge, but with 3 levels you can go Gloomstalker, do an extra attack on every first round of combat, you can pick a different spell from Feytouched (you could pick Sharpshooter earllier) since you can pick Hunter's Mark from your regular Ranger spells, or you could also use Favored Foe instead of Hunter's Mark, which is a pretty similar effect, but doesn't require a BA to activate.

I would also be promotive of ranger 4 over fighter/cleric.

1: ranger also gets fighting style.
2: fey ranger fits well with both a high wisdom AND the fey touched feat. OR gloomstalker, which is strong for level 3 too.
3: canny and favored foe are so much better than huntersmark.
4: you can get bless from the fey touched feat instead of huntersmark, which would pair better with the sharpshooter feat and monk’s deft strike. You can use ranger spell slots for it too.
5: if you want to take ranger 5 fir second level slots you could. At that point though i would rather take 3 cleric or druid / 1 fighter.

[LudicSavant]

To get into the proper mindset of a ranged Kensei: We're playing a shooter now. Not one of those lame new school shooters. I mean old school where you run fast, jump good, and catch bullets in your teeth and spit them back out and slaughter demons until they learn to fear you while awesome music plays. That's more like it.

So as a Kensei, you have a reaction that eats big fat chunks of ranged weapon attack damage. It costs zero ki unless you want to get an attack with it too (in which case, it's almost like a ranged version of a Riposte Battle Master maneuver that also eats damage). This makes us tanky against ranged attacks. Seriously, that Deflect Missiles can eat 14.5 (average) damage a pop at level 5. That's like ~33% of a Paladin's life bar. At will. And it scales well too, at level 20 it can eat 30.5 (average) damage a pop, so you can have a gigantic boulder hurled at you and it'll just bounce off. And at that same level, you'll also have better AC than a typical archer. And Evasion if they try to throw fireballs at you. And Poison immunity. And great saves all around. And you move twice as fast (or more). And run up walls so people couldn't get to you even if they could run fast. And eventually be able to give yourself Greater Invisibility and Resistance to all damage.

You also can make 3 Sharpshooter longbow attacks a turn thanks to synergy with the Tasha's buffs. At level 11 6. With the potential for a ranged reaction attack for 4. And a Precision-Attack-like mechanic. And a smite-like mechanic.

At level 11, you gain the ability to give yourself a +3 to hit and damage on all of your attacks for an entire combat, as a bonus action. On a Sharpshooter with 3 attacks, a ranged reaction attack, mini-smites, and a precision-attack-like mechanic. All while you're running up the walls and laughing at arrows and fireballs.

At level 17, you get a reroll every turn, for free. It's not Advantage. It stacks with it. On your Sharpshooter character.


Heya, that's probably gonna do fine, as far as playable is concerned, it will for sure be playable.

If you are interested in the more commonly talked about playstyle of the archer Kensei, its trying to use your bonus action for an extra attack with the bow every turn, which doesn't mesh well with HM since both require BA.

This is done by making use of Ki Fueled attack, but since the most reliable way to spend Ki without spending an action is Focused Aim, in case both your attacks hit you can't spend ki on FA, and can'tmake the third attack. That's where Deft Strike, Kensei's lvl 6 feature comes into play, if both attacks hit you trigget DS in your second attack, and can make the 3rd one.

However, if that's what you wanna go for, here's a suggestion for a similar vibe that may be interesting. Instead of taking Cleric for the slots, and Fighter for the style, why not go Ranger 3? You lose Action Surge which is huge, but with 3 levels you can go Gloomstalker, do an extra attack on every first round of combat, you can pick a different spell from Feytouched (you could pick Sharpshooter earllier) since you can pick Hunter's Mark from your regular Ranger spells, or you could also use Favored Foe instead of Hunter's Mark, which is a pretty similar effect, but doesn't require a BA to activate.

This is solid advice.

Kensei can get easy and consistent ranged BAs, thanks to the new alternate class features from Tasha's. KFA will trigger both on Deft Strikes and on Focused Aim.

You can also get an awful lot of accuracy from being a Kensei, thanks to the Monk's new Focused Aim feature (also from Tasha's), Sharpen the Blade, and eventually at-will Advantage. As such Sharpshooter is a pretty much a no-brainer for a ranged Kensei. Gunner is also good if you want it. Prioritize Dexterity over Wisdom and max it quick.

Another thing to pay attention to as a Kensei is that you are tanky against ranged and AoE attacks, and many things will struggle to get into melee with you if you're taking proper advantage of your mobility options. Leverage that.

[Greywander]

You also can make 3 Sharpshooter longbow attacks a turn thanks to synergy with the Tasha's buffs. At level 11 6. With the potential for a ranged reaction attack for 4. And a Precision-Attack-like mechanic. And a smite-like mechanic.
I've considered ranged monk builds before, but had trouble understanding how they could compete with something like an archer fighter. This right here shows just how much I was underselling the monk. In tier 2, a Kensei monk might be an even stronger archer than a fighter would be, and while it evens out in tier 3, you also have more ki to sustain things like Deft Strike or Focused Aim.

I guess the thing holding me back from committing to a ranged monk build is (a) how often would I be in a situation where I can shoot an enemy but not punch them? and (b) melee is stronger by default on a monk and ranged requires build resources to outdo melee. It seems like it would make more sense just to spend those same build resources making melee better. The Archery fighting style and Sharpshooter just seem like a steep cost when I could get, say, Dueling or Blind Fighting and Mobile or Defensive Duelist. Stunning Strike only works in melee, after all. But I can see how the Archery + Sharpshooter longbow Kensei would have higher damage than a melee monk.

[Damon_Tor]

War Cleric 1 gets you Divine Favor, which is going to treat you much better than Hunter's Mark. It also gets you a bonus action attack for turns where you don't get your KFA. I decided a while ago that Kensei Shot wasn't worth it 99% of the time. An extra attack is almost always better.

[LudicSavant]

I've considered ranged monk builds before, but had trouble understanding how they could compete with something like an archer fighter. This right here shows just how much I was underselling the monk. In tier 2, a Kensei monk might be an even stronger archer than a fighter would be, and while it evens out in tier 3, you also have more ki to sustain things like Deft Strike or Focused Aim.

I guess the thing holding me back from committing to a ranged monk build is (a) how often would I be in a situation where I can shoot an enemy but not punch them? and (b) melee is stronger by default on a monk and ranged requires build resources to outdo melee. It seems like it would make more sense just to spend those same build resources making melee better. The Archery fighting style and Sharpshooter just seem like a steep cost when I could get, say, Dueling or Blind Fighting and Mobile or Defensive Duelist. Stunning Strike only works in melee, after all. But I can see how the Archery + Sharpshooter longbow Kensei would have higher damage than a melee monk.


(a) how often would I be in a situation where I can shoot an enemy but not punch them?

Answer (a) Some examples include when an enemy is flying, behind control and cover, or has melee-retributive features (like a Balor, Remorhaz, or Salamander all have, just for a couple of the many examples). You can even do things like run up walls for firing angles over barriers and the like. Additionally, being at range confers many defensive and positioning benefits for a Monk -- they casually deflect ranged weapons, are nearly immune to Dex saves, and can run not only far but up sheer walls and the like to avoid melee range. Between cover, verticality, positioning, deflect, Evasion + max Dex, and the like, actually getting at the Monk can be easier said than done for many foes. You're harder to go after or evade than the usual Samurai or Battle Master archer. You basically don't need a front line.

If someone can find the thread, I basically demonstrated how effective this can be a while back when somebody put out some solo challenge gauntlet asking what martials could get through it (they tried a Fighter and they died. I threw a ranged Monk at it and they barely used any resources and took no damage throughout the entire gauntlet). Mind, the gauntlet was easy by my standards, but it still showed up what their idea of a Fighter was :smalltongue:


(b) melee is stronger by default on a monk and ranged requires build resources to outdo melee.
answer (b) Both routes have their advantages and disadvantages. Gun Monks play a more archer-fighter-ish role. Instead of primarily spending your ki on Stunning Strike, you primarily spend it on Deft Strike KFA and/or Focused Aim KFA. And later Sharpen the Blade, too.

You're basically looking at 3d12+1d6+45 (68) damage per turn at tier 2 (more if you get the ranged reaction attack), with Sharpshooter counterbalanced by Focused Aim, max Dex, and the Archery style. And you spend the ki you save on mobility/defense/stunning on having that very consistent damage output.

Unless you're just getting like no short rests (in which case, you shouldn't be playing a Monk or Warlock), you should be able to do that pretty much all day.

Later on when you get Sharpen the Blade, you'll want to either be in a game with low magic gear, or get magic gear that doesn't have just generic +X bonuses. For example, stuff like Dragon Wing Bows and Oathbows still stacks with Sharpen the Blade.

[meandean]

Do you dump Wisdom on the ranged Kensei? That's value in and of itself... or at least, as good as Stunning Strike is, a normal Monk sure is paying a lot to get it.

[stoutstien]

Do you dump Wisdom on the ranged Kensei? That's value in and of itself... or at least, as good as Stunning Strike is, a normal Monk sure is paying a lot to get it.

Dump no but you can safely delay it more so than most monks and have less reasons to push it up to 20.

[LudicSavant]

Do you dump Wisdom on the ranged Kensei? That's value in and of itself... or at least, as good as Stunning Strike is, a normal Monk sure is paying a lot to get it.


Dump no but you can safely delay it more so than most monks and have less reasons to push it up to 20.

What Stoutstein said. You don't dump it but you don't need to pump it, either.

[Greywander]

I'd still feel compelled to max WIS anyway, since the AC is helpful and there would still be times when I'd need to get into melee, and Stunning Strike is still pretty useful.

How do non-kensei monks fit into this discussion? I've heard the best gunks are actually Shadow monks. Shadow gets a lot cooler toys while Kensei just gets a bit better damage. There's a reason Kensei isn't considered a strong monk subclass.

Speaking of gunks, I feel like the cost and availability of ammo would be a bit prohibitive unless you have an artificer in the party who can infuse your musket with Repeating Shot. A longbow gets you much longer range at slightly lower damage, but longbows are only available to Kenseis while muskets are available to any monk who takes Gunner.

[LudicSavant]

How do non-kensei monks fit into this discussion?

Gunner is a solid option in general.


I'd still feel compelled to max WIS anyway, since the AC is helpful and there would still be times when I'd need to get into melee, and Stunning Strike is still pretty useful.

You can take it if you want but you shouldn't feel compelled, because there are a variety of good feats to consider.

AC doesn't need to be some super high priority for you. Even with just Dex, you're already going to have AC like an archer Fighter (or better; they usually have 17 base, you'll have 18 with max Dex and 16 Wis), plus Deflect Missiles, Evasion, Step of the Wind, increased movement speed, increased verticality, and eventually Diamond Mind and Empty Body.

[Omni-Centrist]

I actually went like this: Kensei 4 => Gloomstalker 3 => Kensei 8 => War Cleric 9.

I went war cleric with the end of the PCs career mostly because it feels like monks fall off super hard in tier 3, and even those low level Cleric spells like bless or guiding bolt can be super useful. One thing I really like is the End Game power spike: being able to cast Holy Weapon twice per day. An extra 2d8 radiant damage per attack is so useful.

The feats I went for as well was: Sharpshooter for, well, sharpshooting, Strixenhaven Initiate so I could have access to the Shield spell, and War Caster so those crucial con saves don't fail when I need em.

[Rukelnikov]

I actually went like this: Kensei 4 => Gloomstalker 3 => Kensei 8 => War Cleric 9.

I went war cleric with the end of the PCs career mostly because it feels like monks fall off super hard in tier 3, and even those low level Cleric spells like bless or guiding bolt can be super useful. One thing I really like is the End Game power spike: being able to cast Holy Weapon twice per day. An extra 2d8 radiant damage per attack is so useful.

The feats I went for as well was: Sharpshooter for, well, sharpshooting, Strixenhaven Initiate so I could have access to the Shield spell, and War Caster so those crucial con saves don't fail when I need em.

Nice! Btw i'm not sure monks fall off hard, their damage stagnates a bit, but their defensive capabilities increase a lot. Diamond Body is amongst the best defenses in the game, and Empty Body is pretty good too, but they are both high level.