Roleplaying Angels and other Good Exemplars

[Charles Phipps]

This is about what should be the role of the OTHER half of the Outsiders. We've got the Tanar'ri, the oft ignored Yugoloths, and the Baatezu. However, what is the adventuring potential of Celestials? How do you roleplay the Outer Planar embodiments of Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic Goodness?

What kind of conflicts can they provide?

[metalbear]

One issue that I would see come up would be the reaction of most of the NPCs. People are going to panic when they see a Solar walking down the street. Sure, celestials are creatures that are the embodiment of good, but they only seem to show up when things have really hit the fan.

[Charles Phipps]

Yeah, I'm trying to come up with an in-character explanation for my PC with Planar History to explain in a nutshell that angels are Pure Good but that doesn't make them people you want to be around. They're as alien as Fiends are in their own way, they just don't consider you something to be slaughtered out of hand.

[SoD]

I guess you'd roleplay a pure good creature as that. Not even considering anything that's even remotely evil, taking the paladin persona (can't do that, alignment) to extreme.

No, not all paladins are like that.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Wanna make them alien? see Exalted. Use that and you're done, you'll have good guys with an alien level of stupidity.

[Charles Phipps]

I'm of a divided mind. Because while I like the Bartelby and Loki gags, I tend to think that Angels are going to be fairly aloof creatures. A human being may fall because of lust, revenge, or what not. Celestials are probably thinking grandiose and big thoughts 24-7.

"So, should we maybe biologically husband Orcs to be more docile creatures?"
"Isn't that immoral?"
"Versus allowing them to remain at their present sub-optimal state of existence?"

[Azerian Kelimon]

Nah, they're closer to this:

"Demons! But I can't fight them, I swore never to harm anybody. C'mon, demons, get me, I won't fight back! No, wait a minute....I'M HARMING MYSELF AND I LOST MY FEATS! NOOOOOOOOOOO!"

[Xuincherguixe]

I'm a touch cynical, so this may not be appropriate for some play styles.

Angels are overbearing and condescending, if not outright hostile. Not above using magical compulsion to enforce their ideas on others either.

Other Good outsiders are a bit more open. Neutral Good might have high ideals, but completely freeze in the face of situations where the only option is "evil". Or they might always have an answer, paragons of wisdom. Perhaps always looking for a better answer.

Chaotic Good outsiders could act too fast. Only causing more destruction and being unwilling to admit this, or that their might be another way. Or maybe it even embraces destruction, as part of the cycle where new things must be built from old things. Or maybe they're tricksters. Or maybe they go around defying authority.

And naturally any combination here can be used. Plot hooks are easy once their nature has been determined.

One idea I have for a campaign premise is that only Humans are capable of being "good". What is "human" can vary. And doesn't even need to include actual humans. But outsiders would not count. So, good Outsiders would only claim to be good.

[Charles Phipps]

One idea I have for a campaign premise is that only Humans are capable of being "good". What is "human" can vary. And doesn't even need to include actual humans. But outsiders would not count. So, good Outsiders would only claim to be good.

I tend to think that human beings are naturally neutral by nature. A human father looks after his wife, his children, and his immediate relations/friends. He's going to be concerned about his own health and welfare and will be caught up in the throws of passion.

To a Celestial, you've basically got a being that literally does not have anyone who means something more to him than anyone else. Every Celestial is unflinching and Fearless in the face of evil (assuming we're going to LG Archon types) like Redcloak says of Miko.

Lets face it, humans claims of being good don't stand up worth a crap when compared to the alien Celestials. Celestials have no history of rape, domestic violence, sex crimes, wars for plunder, or even murder amongst their own with probably only one or two wars in their entire history amongst themselves.

Humans really ARE a twisted and inferior race by comparison. Yet, that's a difficult pill for people to swallow and a lot of people will not think the world SHOULD have purely good as an ideal to pursue.

[Xuincherguixe]

I'm not saying that humans are good, just that they are the only ones with the real option.

Bit of a difference :P

[Charles Phipps]

I'm not saying that humans are good, just that they are the only ones with the real option.

Bit of a difference :P

I wasn't really disputing how you do it in your campaign, dude. :-)

I was just pointing out that "Purely Good" can be so utterly removed from the mindset and priorities of normal human beings that people might well believe it to be evil.

[Morty]

I'm of the opinion that angels, as well as demons and devils of course, shouldn't be roleplayed. They're pure embodient of certain ideal, good or evil. Their mindset is utterly alien to mortals who have free will and individuality. It's like playing nonhuman races but worse. Even a paladin is still free-thinking individual who simply chooses to do good and restrain from any evil. But a celestial is created for nothing more but performing good deeds and fighting evil. Same with evil: even an evil cleric or blackguard simply follows a philosophy claiming that good is weak and evil is the only true path. But demon or devil exists for nothing more than to cause destruction, suffering and other awful things.

[Charles Phipps]

I'm of the opinion that angels, as well as demons and devils of course, shouldn't be roleplayed.

Well, this is for a Planescape game so that's rather difficult...

[Telonius]

It really depends on the campaign setting. Can angels "fall?" If so, they have a certain amount of free will, and therefore might be appropriate for played characters. They'd just be a more powerful, more alien, "Good-er" version of Aasimar.

But in some settings, angels might not really have much of a choice. They don't choose to be good, Good is just what they are. That sort of angel would not be appropriate for a PC. It doesn't have a personality, as such. It might look like a humanoid (or not), but it can't choose like one. It's more like a Good Elemental (conceptually anyway).

Both of those sorts of angels might co-exist in a setting, too. Maybe an Astral Deva is of the first sort, but a Solar is of the second; or vice versa.

[Morty]

Well, this is for a Planescape game so that's rather difficult...

Hm. Planescape for all I know treats demons and angels differently that I think they should look, so I don't know if I'm qualified to talk about it. Still, even in Planescape, I think that outsiders like celestials, Tanar'ri and Baatezu aren't good material for players to play.

[Xefas]

While DMing one game, I had an Archon emphasize the strangeness of the species by essentially explaining what his life was like.

He was a guy who died, and after enjoying himself for a bit in Heaven, he finally excepted harmony, and abruptly lost his sense of individuality, becoming a petitioner. After merging with the power of Celestia, he was remade into an Archon with no memory of his wife, kids, and friends who were also in Celestia, even though he was told he should know them. They, of course, remembered him, but it was obviously very awkward. Then, he was trained non-stop in a single activity, which was the only thing he was ever going to be allowed to do for the rest of eternity. When he was finished, they assigned him to that job, which was hunting down devils that had infiltrated the Prime Material Plane.

One day, he was going about his business, when some demons showed up and started wreaking havoc, so he stepped in and stopped them to much personal peril to himself. Since that wasn't his assigned duty, he had technically broken the laws of Celestia (which is do your job and only your job for the greater good), and several Archons were sent to apprehend him, so they could destroy his individual thoughts and memories again, to eradicate the "deviance", and then reassign him. That's why he was running, and that's why the PCs found him.

Eladrin, I play as the opposite. They're rowdy, and unruly, and rough around the edges, but will gladly give up everything up to and including their own life in the pursuit of good. Each individual Eladrin functions entirely on their own, and is responsible for making their own decisions as to what the proper course of action is. Both their good and bad qualities are larger than life, and played up to the extreme.

The Furries are a little trickier. Obviously they're going to be somewhere in between Archon and Eladrin. Most of the time I do this with each furry considering the advice of other furries, or seeking outside wisdom, and then incorporating it into their individual thoughts, combining group and personal dynamics. Because of this, they're generally humble like no other, and have very little capacity for anger or rudeness.

Angels, I picture as bigger than them all. They're like Goodthulhus- so good that looking upon them wracks people with goodanity. I do them soft-spoken, and introverted. They speak very plainly, and only on the matter at hand. They don't ask questions, because chances are they already know the answer, or have a very accurate guess from their mental stats. They probably don't need to be roleplayed for very long, considering they're always the last ones to get called when the serious evil crap is getting rolled out, and as soon as its over, they're going to be in a hurry to leave.