Minimum Force Needed?

[SangoProduction]

So, this country has had a small town captured by undead. These undead total around 2,000 with an estimated 70% of which being totally mindless (likely via Animate Dead spell or the similar). Only 1% are expected to have their full mental faculties about them. (Vampires and the such.) Aside from vampires, there don't appear to be spawn-generating undead (or at least there are no signs of it), and save for perhaps a number counted on one hand, there aren't any incorporeal undead.

From the scouting reports, there are a few particularly notable figures in this town, which represent the upper end of the capabilities the town has.

A level 7 oracle vampire (orc?), and her 4, level 2 fighter vampire spawns. Rarely leaves her sanctum, built out of the old town hall. (Dinners are instead delivered.)
A level 6 wizard skeleton (human). He's a bit of a loner. Likely an overly ambitious would-be lich. Seems to be fond of Necromancy and Conjuration. Has been seen casting some illusions.
A level 4 rogue banshee, with a masochistic disposition. Has at least 1 ghost that follows her around. Not enough surviving intel on her.
Two level 2 barbarian Cinder Ghouls, who tend to group with a few other, otherwise not-special cinder ghouls and regular ghouls. (Their method of controlling the ghouls is unknown.)

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There are several other issues the country has to deal with, and not an infinite budget. Though it's not an immediate and deadly risk to the entire country, it is very disconcerting.

So, the council has come to this "playground" to ask for guidance on what is the bare minimum amount of force needed to dispatch the filth that has called the town its home.
And also what would be the "safe minimum" to make sure the force is thoroughly put down, without it simply turning into a provocation if it fails.

[InvisibleBison]

The answer to this question depends on how the undead, especially the ~600 non-mindless undead, will react to an attack. If they all ignore it or converge on the attackers and fight to the death, you only need enough force to defeat them in battle - probably a 10th to 12th level adventuring party would suffice, especially if they're specialized in fighting undead. If, on the other hand, a significant amount of undead will flee into the countryside when a credible threat appears, you need enough force to essentially besiege the town. Exactly how many people it would take depends on how armies work in this setting, but it's almost certainly going to need hundreds to thousands of soldiers.

[zlefin]

It's hard to measure 'bare minimums' due to variability.

Assuming equal optimization on both sides; I could see a level 7 party that's specialized for the task pulling it off over time and with luck. More typically I agree a lvl 10-12 party would be best for the task. Higher level party doing hit and runs can really whittle down forces quite effectively; most undead have poor hiding ability, so finding targets should generally be feasible. It'd also depend somewhat on the terrain.

If there's a defensible base near the target, then that could provide a resting zone for the party if it's supported by a bunch of regular troops to help keep watch and prevent being overwhelmed.

If you don't have access to higher level chars, then it gets a lot trickier, and depending on the level distribution of lower level chars you have, you could be looking at an army of hundreds.

If optimization levels are different; then it's nigh impossible to say, as higher op can get very silly powerful very fast.

note that recapturing the town without giving the monsters a chance to massacre the inhabitants would be far trickier; as most battle scenarios would leave enough time for a sizeable chunk of the monsters to just kill whatever commoners they can.

[Alcore]

Depends on the nature of the universe, the nature of the undead capable of thought and the status of the mindless (are 100% under control?).


Hypothetically...
If a zombie is in a forest and is suddenly released from service, remotely I add, what does he do? He is a being of negative energy (sorta) and that technically isn't automatically evil.

Negative Energy = evil? He will either stand still until another creatures is heard/seen or lurch forward in a death march killing everything in its path. Said path will meander as prey run/die leaving the zombie pointed in a new direction.

Negative Energy = opposing life/positive energy? said zombie will kill every tree, bush and blade of grass before leaving any area. Without thought it is vary easy to avoid such a creature; just stay out of arm reach and it will ignore you unless attacked or its current target dies.

Thought required. (Sorta typical, usually its a mix of A and C) He will stand around like a lump of plastic.


So about the intelligent undead... what do they want? If they have no kingdom scale goals then it get easier for external forces to invade. A lich "researching magic" is not really a kingdom level goal (Yes, he is not a real lich, still applies) so unless he was suspecting trouble only a small force is needed. Same with the vampire; if he is not militant minded the mindless are unlikely to be armed and armored in anything.

Those ghouls are the only real problem here. No one here has the power to stand as their own army but them (as they make one).


What I would use? (in my own settings)
As a ruler of a kingdom... get a party of about 6th or 7th level adventurers on standby to help the large-ish 800 man fighter army (typically level 2) supported by a hundred adepts.


Mindless undead do not typically have any ranged abilities. (If the undead rulers are expecting an attack/militarized you'll want to double or triple troop numbers) The general idea is to attack at dawn and whitle/eliminate the mindless with ranged fire and destroy any intelligent undead that come out. This will take multiple skirmishes throughout the day. Eventually you'll be setting fire to the entire village. Around sundown you simply retreat. (The vampire is not something you can practically fight with an army and the army is a liability to the adventurers)



It also matters in how mindless uncontrolled undead handle friend/foe recognition. they will be uncontrolled as you start taking down the ones controlling them. You'll want to burn corpses (or lop off all limbs).

[Buufreak]

Is there any signs of this undead force spreading or expanding? If not, I feel it safe to say the minimum force would be to simply allow time to do what time does. Walking corpses are still corpses, and they will shamble and shuffle until they fall apart.

[awa]

minimum?
If i were a dm designing an adventure I could see this as an adventure for a group as low as level 7 if they were the right group. The real threat is the intelligent undead once they are gone the mindless undead are largely something to be maneuvered around, a puzzle rather than a fight.

In truth though their really isn't anyway of knowing, undead power levels vary so dramatically if they are mostly zombie humans they are predictable in their abilities if they are a random assortment of exotic base creatures and obscure undead that wildly increases the threat.

You could have an exciting low level adventure against thousands of undead leaping from roof top to roof top first stealthily to assassinate your target then desperately on the retreat as the zombie horde uses raw numbers to rip the building out from under you. If they have an army of flying zombies or climbing undead that easy reliable way to avoid the horde disappears.

[Zanos]

So, this country has had a small town captured by undead. These undead total around 2,000 with an estimated 70% of which being totally mindless (likely via Animate Dead spell or the similar).
So skeletons and zombies. But skeletons and zombies of what? An army of undead ogres is going to be a lot harder to remove than an army of undead kobolds.

[zlefin]

It also depends how certain/confident the kingdom is in its scouting; if you're really sure, then a highly tailored force works great; but if you made mistakes in your assessment, it could spell big trouble. In particular - the undead forces seem to have very few good aoe sources; which makes massed regular troops in formation quite effective. Even if undead resist some of the ranged attacks well, they'd have a very hard time attacking a pike wall or other solid defensive line with ranged support; unless the undead are carrying a lot of ranged weapons themselves (technically possible, at least for some of them). You can have a small core of better equipped folk level 5-plus stay inside the formation providing strong ranged attacks that can get through the undead's dr.

Does the town have any notable fortifications the undead can utilize?

[Jay R]

Another variable is how the townsfolk react (assuming that there are conquered townsfolk still living). At the end of The Lord of the Rings, it only took four hobbits to arrive and raise the Shire -- because all the rest joined in.

Alcore is quite correct that you want a mundane army to take down the large numbers of zombies and skeletons while the adventurers are busy with the intelligent undead. That mundane army might be the populace of the town.

[SangoProduction]

It also depends how certain/confident the kingdom is in its scouting; if you're really sure, then a highly tailored force works great; but if you made mistakes in your assessment, it could spell big trouble. In particular - the undead forces seem to have very few good aoe sources; which makes massed regular troops in formation quite effective. Even if undead resist some of the ranged attacks well, they'd have a very hard time attacking a pike wall or other solid defensive line with ranged support; unless the undead are carrying a lot of ranged weapons themselves (technically possible, at least for some of them). You can have a small core of better equipped folk level 5-plus stay inside the formation providing strong ranged attacks that can get through the undead's dr.

Does the town have any notable fortifications the undead can utilize?

It was a border town that had palisades to keep out local wildlife.
The scouting is definitely rough. Especially with the banshee ambushing the scouts.


Another variable is how the townsfolk react (assuming that there are conquered townsfolk still living). At the end of The Lord of the Rings, it only took four hobbits to arrive and raise the Shire -- because all the rest joined in.

Alcore is quite correct that you want a mundane army to take down the large numbers of zombies and skeletons while the adventurers are busy with the intelligent undead. That mundane army might be the populace of the town.

There are likely no living citizens remaining.


So skeletons and zombies. But skeletons and zombies of what? An army of undead ogres is going to be a lot harder to remove than an army of undead kobolds.

The most plentiful of the mindless undead are from the former citizenry, and low-thread wildlife. There were some skeletal rhinos spotted though.

[Elenian]

It depends. I'm going to start by imagining a sort of typical fantasy-medieval context here. I'm also looking at the worst-case scenario where these undead are all combatants and, in fact, capable of acting in concert as a single fighting force.

Two thousand combatants, in a medieval context, is a pretty significant force! We have memoires of medieval nobility going to make war on neighbors, seize castles, that kind of thing, with forces of a few dozens to hundreds of men. A couple thousand soldiers would be the kind of force a great noble such as a Duke might take to war. So if these undead could potentially be marshalled and commanded as an army, and if you don't have access to military resources beyond the typical low-level martial soldiery, probably no noble is going to be able to muster a sufficient force out of their own resources.

Now in a medieval context you can't just get the Dukes of Avignon and Orleans to combine their armies into a bigger force - armies are built of nested 'retinues of retinues', and structured by existing social bonds. The Duke of Avignon commands his retainers, who command theirs, etc. The Duke of Orleans isn't embedded into this command structure, and neither are his retainers, and so he's not going to be able to easily integrate his forces. This basically means that if you need more than the army of any one noble, you're going to need the King (who has existing personal relationships with both Dukes) to go himself. Thus, the answer here is probably: the minimum force requirement is the Royal Army.

If instead the model is something more like an early modern nation-state (or indeed an empire of the ancient world), then you might have a professional standing army with its own traditions of command and officership. In that case, you have considerably more flexibility about how much force to bring to bear (and, if you're a big nation-state or, like, the Roman Empire, you have a lot more total force available.). Then you might go for something like a two-to-one force ratio - something like a single Roman legion - with a high confidence of victory. But it should be noted that undead have *significant* logistical advantages over living troops and if the vampire over there turns out to be undead Quintus Fabius Maximus you could still have a lengthy and genuinely unpleasant campaign on your hands.

Of course, we're in DnD land, so maybe your country has a 13th level spellcaster on the payroll who can spend a week calling half a dozen trumpet archons or whatever. If you're in that kind of high-magic situation then 'minimum force' is going to be measured mostly in spell slots rather than, like, armies.

[awa]

some how missed the banshee, that's going to be very rough for a level 7 party just by itself and kind of renders almost any number of conventional troops pointless as well.

So it sounds like the banshee scouts so the solution is a counter ambush send out a team that can take the banshee and remove it from play as a single boss fight than fall back to heal.

The next step might just be burn the whole city down during the day and hope that thins their numbers. Escaping a burning city is very hard for people with working brains it should do a real number on mindless or subhuman critters. Block or seal the gates to make escape harder and you might be able to just wipe out the overwhelming majority of this army.