Character concept exploration: Ancestral guardian x/cleric x. Doable or utterly MAD?

[dehro]

I woke up today with a character theme in mind, an ancestral guardian barbarian, multiclassing into cleric.

he is a young tribesman and, like other members of his tribe, when it is time to come of age, he is given a knife, a bag of *insert hallucinogenic of preference* and told to come back after his ancestors have guided him to his "real name"

walking in the wilderness, he settles down to consume his bag of fun. He has heard that an ancestor would appear to him and point him towards a prey. an animal or a creature that he would need to hunt and/or defeat, to conquer a trophy to bring back.
What he doesn't know is that one of the tribe elders is observing, from a distance (as they do with all coming of age ceremonies).
Instead of a clear vision, our man has terrible stomach aches and catches a fever that tears through him for a full day.
When he wakes up again, dehydrated and barely lucid, his observer is about to intervene, to bring him back to the village for him to try another day, when multiple spirits appear all around our man.
Unnoticed, a wild boar was about to jump him, and the spirits have risen to his defense, unlocking his first rage.

After witnessing the rather short ensuing battle, the village elder brings our man back to the village.
A select nr of the youth who go through their coming of age rite have similar experiences where an interaction with the spirit world is not just in a fever dream but occurs in the actual real world.

They are then trained to become ancestral guardians, much like our man does for the next years.
He learns to become very in tune with the spirit world, and, next to his growth as a solid warrior, he gets closer to the spiritual world by becoming a cleric apprentice (flavoured as a shaman) to the village.

now.. questions and limitations...

what would be the best domain, synergistically speaking? thematically, I am thinking of the following domains: twilight, grave, war, forge, leaning into various sides of the village life and/or the spiritual connection. What would be most effective?

I am thinking this would be a good tank build, but how do I bring it about and focus on the tankiness? what feats and race combos are best? what is the best point buy distribution?
I would stick to relatively basic races, no flying races or extra limbs or somesuch.
no, I do not want to consider dips (or more) in classes other than the barbarian and the cleric (at most, but really against my concept, I could consider a fighter dip)... so if your reply contemplates other classes, then thank you, but you have not read the brief.

and the Ancestral Guardian is a hard must.

I have a feeling that this would NOT be a particularly optimized/optimizable combo, and I am ok with that, but I am wondering if this concept, and the ensuing combo would be destined to inevitably fall behind or not.

[Willie the Duck]

By the nature of the class feature rage, any spellcaster plus barbarian is probably less than optimized. That said, that just means you either 1) have lots of encounter-per-day staying power (since encounters 1&2 you rage, but then you still have spells, or the like), or 2) have lots of OOC spells and win the day by raging and using Channel Divinity or other effects.

Best Domain: Right out the gate I'm sure a lot of people will say Twilight (and not be wrong). Temp HP (to you and any battle buddies) and darkvision (meaning you can pick other races without worry about torches and the like) is rarely a bad choice. It also has some nice spells for OOC utility (if you can grab the stealth skill, having Invisibility is great. Either way, seeing the other sides' invisible folk is great. Plus decent heals and Leodmund's hut). If you don't want to use this book cycle's go-to option, most of the rest of these also have advantages. War Domain spells fall heavily into the 'this is for your non-raging combat encounters' playbook, but War Priest and Guided Strike CD both work great for barbs any time. Grave gives you a lot of spell options (many of them combat-concentrated), so don't match perfectly. The Channel Divinity is also action-using, which is rough to give up on a martial character (much less one who needs to keep attacking to continue rage). Forge gives you an OOC channel divinity, a +1 weapon or armor of your choice, and spells which mostly require concentration. At this point, I would suggest War or Twilight.

Best race: half-orc and Goliath have obvious barbarian and tank benefits. Firbolg has some Wisdomy-bruiser aesthetics (and while Detect Magic and Disguise self are spells, their Invisibility power is not). Variant Human is also a great option, as always (starting with Sentinel if you need your tank to be sticky).

Feats: Sentinel, PAM, GWM, resilient: Wis (I'm assuming you are starting as barbarian), and telekinetic (non-spell bonus action ability) are all good choices.

[solidork]

I guess something to keep in mind is that training to be a spiritual leader in your community doesn't necessarily mean that you've got levels in the Cleric class. There are other ways to represent that, like Magic Initiate, Ritual Caster and the Acolyte Background. If you're a cleric, your god has chosen you specifically to wield power in their name.

I've played a War Cleric with a similar concept, using Spirit Guardians as the way he called on his ancestors. I'm not sure it's worth it to invest so many levels in Cleric though.

[Keravath]

Thematically, I'd have to say Nature cleric. The character is in tune with nature, the natural world and the spirits around him .. so a Nature cleric would seem like the best fit if you want a cleric. It isn't mechanically the best - it just fits from the perspective of the theme you are looking for.

However, looking at the list of options you provided, you seem to be looking for mechanical benefit rather than thematic fit in which case Twilight cleric would probably give you the most features and they don't depend on your wisdom. 300' dark vision and advantage on initiative rolls for one person in the party. At second level you pick up d6+2 temp hit points, cancel charmed or frightened and it lasts a minute - channel divinity refreshes on short rests. Add in some low level spells you could use between combats or which don't require concentration and you can reduce the issues related to being a spellcaster with rage.

Thematically, I'm not sure how it would fit in but you can probably come up with something since day/night/twilight are a part of the natural daily cycle. You might be able to fit the grave cleric thematically in terms of death also being a normal part of the cycle of life. I can't really see forge cleric fitting very well though especially for barbarians who might only rarely use armor.

However, for a shaman, a druid might be a better fit than cleric.

Level split wise, you'd probably want to focus on the Barbarian levels since you want the higher strength, dex and con - wisdom is only ever going to be a backup stat - if you end up going with more levels of cleric, it just makes you worse at being a barbarian due to needing a higher wisdom and spreading around the stats. With point buy, you will already be squeezed trying to get reasonable strength, dex, con and wis.

Using point buy and choosing a race with +2, +1 Your starting stats will be something like 16 14 14 9 14 8. A mountain dwarf gives 16 14 16 9 13 8. Variant human would be 16 14 14 9 13 8 plus a feat. If you want to go with damage dealing then GWM/PAM is the usual barbarian route but you need to fit in the feats somehow despite needing the ASIs for stats.

In terms of tanking, remember that rage and hps tend to be the barbarian method of tanking since if they use reckless attack they are going to be hit even with a higher AC. Tanky and barbarian almost seem diametrically opposite :)

Three levels of champion fighter is also a popular mechanical option on a barbarian. Action surge and extended critical hit range are both good when you are using reckless attack.

Although it may not be "optimal", a couple levels of cleric won't put you too far behind as long as you take barbarian to 5 for extra attack first. (or possibly 1 barb/1 cleric -> 5 barb/1 cleric since it gets the concept into play earlier but level 5 will be a bit tough and will likely feel "behind" the other characters.

[solidork]

Twilight could be justified on the idea that it exemplifies the transition between life and death, and that liminality weakens the barriers and allows your ancestor spirits to influence things more.

Warding Bond is pretty interesting for you - it doesn't take concentration and your Rage will help reduce the damage you take. Between this and the Ancestral Guardian's innate abilities, thats a lot of reduced damage to your party.

[RogueJK]

The number of combat-useful non-Concentration Cleric spells is pretty limited. Some of the domains might add a couple more, but it's still limited.

So you're basically looking at an Ancestral Guardian Barbarian who has traded much of their Barbarian capabilities for limited pre-combat buffing ability (stuff like Aid and Death Ward), a Channel Divinity (which can be used with Rage since it's not a spell), perhaps another ability or two, and some out of combat utility spells.


You'd likely be better off with just taking something like the Ritual Caster Cleric (or Ritual Caster Druid) feat, and skipping the multiclass altogether.



If you're dead-set on pursuing it, Peace Cleric could be useful. Emboldening Bond allows you to quasi-Bless in a Concentration-free non-spell form. Balm of Peace lets you heal mid-combat without casting a spell. And Protective Bond has some interesting implications if paired with Ancestral Protectors, for mitigating damage to yourself... If an enemy affected by Ancestral Protectors attacks you and you're about to take damage, a bonded ally could uses their Reaction to teleport in next to you and take the damage in your stead, with Ancestral Protector's Resistance then halving the damage dealt to them.

Just keep in mind that Rage requires that you either make an attack or take damage each round, in order to keep the Rage going. So if you're spending your Actions on stuff like Channel Divinity or Emboldening Bond while Raging, you're basically gambling on an enemy successfully damaging you before your next turn, or risk losing Rage. These situations would then disincentivize damage mitigation efforts like the abovementioned Protective Bond shenanigans.

[windgate]

Before I offer advice, I would like some clarification on something regarding your character design:

What level is this character starting the actual game at?


Your concept states that the spirits emerged during his first "rage". He was then trained as an ancestral guardian afterword's. I am trying to correlate your concept with your total character levels.

With the information provided, I am envisioning the following

Levels 1: Default class of any tribal Youth. You simply never got angry enough to "rage". You were sent on your vision quest when you reach 2nd Level.
Levels 2-3: Gained during the vision quest of your concept, the event triggered you becoming level 3. (Primal paths coming at 3rd Level aligns with the elders of your concept tribe determining what your quest performance means). Edit: At third level, the optional primal knowledge class feature gives you proficiency in the Nature skill (shaman training).
Levels 3- 4: Shaman training ended with gaining your 4th Barbarian Level. Character takes the magic initiate feat (druid or cleric) instead of an ASI.


If you need to make the concept work @ 1st level, you can be either variant human or custom lineage (Tashas) for the feat. You might need to have a roleplaying reason why you aren't able to summon those ancestors for 2 more levels though.

If you want to take cleric levels after that, you can totally do so but I am not really seeing a true need for multiclass levels to fulfil your concept

Use the following Point buy Ability Score Array
15, 14, 13, 13, 9, 8

15 Strength
14 Consitition
13 Dexterity
13 Wisdom
9 Intelligence
8 Charisma

Apply Racial Bonus as available


Edit: I am a firm believer that having background experiences for a PC after they become an adult should result in at least a few character levels. It makes that background meaningful.

[windgate]

I am curious as to why you were attracted to the Cleric as opposed to a Paladin for the Multiclass. The Oath of Glory vows essentially mirrors the mentality of Barbarians. You worship nature or ancestors instead of gods and smiting fits the barbarian play style. (You wont wear the heavy armor, Tribal Barbarian cultures dont have the financial resources to even make it available).

Or perhaps going in an weird direction.....

Instead of Cleric, put 3-4 character levels into Tasha's version of the Beast Master Ranger. With DM permission, you can role-play the animal companion (Land) as an ancestor spirit that stays with you. This will also give you some access to healing spells.

[RogueJK]

I am curious as to why you were attracted to the Cleric as opposed to a Paladin for the Multiclass. The Oath of Glory vows essentially mirrors the mentality of Barbarians. You worship nature or ancestors instead of gods and smiting fits the barbarian play style. (You wont wear the heavy armor, Tribal Barbarian cultures dont have the financial resources to even make it available).


This one's kinda doable, but I'm going to put a different twist on it. It's somewhat widely accepted that Barbarian doesn't get you much past Level 6ish. And if you're going to be using your spell slots to smite, you might as well get full caster spell slot progression. So how about this:

Longtooth Shifter
Ancestral Guardian Barbarian 6 -> Paladin 2 -> Lore Bard X
STR 15+1
DEX 13+1
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 9+1
CHA 13
ASIs: +2 STR, GWM, Inspiring Leader
Defense or Great Weapon Fighting Style

You've got all the best parts of Ancestral Guardian Barbarian, plus Paladin's smite and a Fighting Style, plus spell slots to burn for smiting, plus the Bard's out-of-combat utility and ritual spells, spellcasting in combats when you don't plan to Rage, and the best of the non-concentration long-duration combat buffs (like Aid, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, and Heroes' Feast) through either the Bard spell list or by poaching them with Magical Secrets.

Longtooth Shifter not only gets you a BA attack for a third chance to apply Rage damage, it also lets you do stuff like use your Action to Lay On Hands to bring a downed ally back up and then still make a BA attack to both keep your Rage going and trigger Ancestral Protectors that round.

Flavor-wise, you're a Holy Berserker Skald, who sings the war-songs of the Battle God as you charge into battle, fly into an animalistic rage to slay your foes, call upon holy wrath and the aid of your predecessors' spirits from Valhalla, and then regale your brethren with the sagas of valiant deeds long past during the post-battle celebration.


Not optimized, but seems like a fun character. Would likely be strongest in later Tier 2 and early Tier 3.

[dehro]

Replying to this rather late, because life...
The reason to go cleric is to double down on the spiritual side of things... And because I was curious to see if a cleric/barbarian multiclass could work at all.
I don't really have a campaign ready on which I'd play the character so it's purely a proof of concept heavy on the roleplay.. I'm thinking something akin to a Viking tribe shaman with a grudge and actual legit skills.
Purely in the theoretical realm, which is why I don't want to stray into other classes, because then is not working on a different theory, si to speak