A little help with a dragonfire adept

[EisenKreutzer]

I’m preparing a character for a new 3.5 campaign, which as a forever GM I’m looking forward to very much!

I’ve landed on dragonfire adept as the class of choice, and I’m trying to sort out the feat progression I want. Could the more experienced playground members maybe give me some tips? I’m not the best character builder, especially when it comes to feats. I’m sure there are a ton of improvements and changes I would make.
I’m not aiming for something super optimized, but rather a competent, effective and fun build. Think A instead of S+.
Heres what I have so far:

The first list uses the power surge trick to get metabreath feats, if the DM approves.
(Regular feats are in plain text, invocations are in [brackets] and breath modes are in {squiggly brackets})

1- (Dragontouched), Power Surge, Entangling Exhalation [Endure Exposure]
2- {Frost Breath}
3- Shape Breath [Magic Insight]
5- {Slow Breath}
6- Ability Focus (breath weapon) [Voidsense]
8- [Draconic Flight]
9- Enlarge Breath
10- {Enduring Breath}
11- [Chilling Fog]
12- Recover Breath
13- [Draconic Toughness]
15- Clinging Breath {Five-fold Breath of Tiamat}

The second list is without power surge, in case the DM says no to the trick.

No {squiggly brackets} here, since the breath modes will stay the same.

1- (Dragontouched), Entangling Exhalation, Draconic Knowledge [Endure Exposure]
3 - Draconic Aura (Energy: fire) [Draconic Knowledge]
6- Ability Focus (breath weapon) [Draconic Flight, trade Draconic Knowledge for Magic Insight]
8- [Voidsense]
9- Draconic Aura (Insight)
11- [Chilling Fog]
12- Extra Invocation [Frightful Presence]
13- [Terrifying Roar]
15- Double Draconic Aura

[Troacctid]

I would take dispel over blindsense. Just a more powerful effect. You could retrain it back to blindsense if you pick up the greater dispel later, but being able to effectively take 20 on dispel checks is just a really strong effect that's unique to invokers (and I guess paladins with holy avengers), whereas anyone can get blindsense or similar effects just by dropping some gold on it.

I would typically rank Vigor and Senses as the two best draconic auras. I'm not a big fan of Insight; the bonus is often less relevant to other party members.

I don't think Draconic Knowledge is worth taking on a dragonfire adept. Its main benefit is getting all Knowledges as class skills, which you already have.

[EisenKreutzer]

I would take dispel over blindsense. Just a more powerful effect. You could retrain it back to blindsense if you pick up the greater dispel later, but being able to effectively take 20 on dispel checks is just a really strong effect that's unique to invokers (and I guess paladins with holy avengers), whereas anyone can get blindsense or similar effects just by dropping some gold on it.

I would typically rank Vigor and Senses as the two best draconic auras. I'm not a big fan of Insight; the bonus is often less relevant to other party members.

I don't think Draconic Knowledge is worth taking on a dragonfire adept. Its main benefit is getting all Knowledges as class skills, which you already have.

Dispel over blindsense makes sense, I’ll look more closely at it.
The insight aura is mostly for the initiative bonus, I saw it as a strictly better improved initiative. I’ll look more closely at vigor and senses, thanks for that.
EDIT: I see that I made a mistake with the auras, mixing up the names. It was supposed to be senses, not insight. Insight is indeed an inferior choice.
I chose Draconic Knowledge for roleplaying purposes, as the character is an ancient great wyrm transformed into a human by a god. It’s worth considering another alternative though.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out! I forgot to mention the race is human, hence the extra feat on level 1, but you probably figured that out.

[Cygnia]

What sort of role do you want to have in the group and what are the other PCs?

[EisenKreutzer]

What sort of role do you want to have in the group and what are the other PCs?

Session zero is this sunday, and all I know so far is two of the players are building a wizard/incantatrix and a barbarian/druid with a bear companion. I’m trying to build an all-round character that can fill multiple roles reasonably well and help make other characters shine. I don’t want to hyperspecialize.

[Troacctid]

It's worth considering becoming a dragonborn. Both the Con boost and the aspect are pretty valuable to this build. The way the ritual works, if a human becomes a dragonborn, they lose a feat, but it doesn't have to be the same feat they got for being a human, so you can ditch Dragontouched and keep your bonus feat. I would say that the higher your starting level, the better this option becomes.

I don't think Shape Breath is worth taking as a dragonfire adept because you already have the option for both a line and a cone.

[EisenKreutzer]

It's worth considering becoming a dragonborn. Both the Con boost and the aspect are pretty valuable to this build. The way the ritual works, if a human becomes a dragonborn, they lose a feat, but it doesn't have to be the same feat they got for being a human, so you can ditch Dragontouched and keep your bonus feat. I would say that the higher your starting level, the better this option becomes.

I don't think Shape Breath is worth taking as a dragonfire adept because you already have the option for both a line and a cone.

I think I’m sticking with human, but I’ll keep that in mind!
Thats a good point about Shape Breath. Suggestions for a replacement?

[Troacctid]

I think I’m sticking with human, but I’ll keep that in mind!
Thats a good point about Shape Breath. Suggestions for a replacement?
A lot of my warlock feat suggestions are relevant for dragonfire adepts too. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZqsXKR9O0Ou9-q8o0iR16geBwgw1wJSi6uMMQ5LUQH8/edit?usp=sharing

[Cygnia]

There's also Ability Focus (breath weapon) if you wanna up the DC enemies have to make the save against...

Nevermind, saw that you have it on the list. Are you planning on full DFA, no PrC?

[EisenKreutzer]

A lot of my warlock feat suggestions are relevant for dragonfire adepts too. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZqsXKR9O0Ou9-q8o0iR16geBwgw1wJSi6uMMQ5LUQH8/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks!


There's also Ability Focus (breath weapon) if you wanna up the DC enemies have to make the save against...

Nevermind, saw that you have it on the list. Are you planning on full DFA, no PrC?

Yep, full DFA. The class works great alone, and I want to keep things less complicated than I usually do.

[Sian]

Do you want to focus on being one of the damage dealers or do you want to focus on Battlefield control? between Entangling Exhalation and Sickening/Slowing Breaths DFA actually can make a surprisingly competent BFC.

Also, for as long as you don't intend to use your invocations 's mid-battle, you're free to wear the heaviest armour you can get your hands on, since none of the things that non-proficiency combat penalties actually matters for you since you don't roll attack if using breath weapon and don't have a need of invocate mid-battl

[Troacctid]

Do you want to focus on being one of the damage dealers or do you want to focus on Battlefield control? between Entangling Exhalation and Sickening/Slowing Breaths DFA actually can make a surprisingly competent BFC.
I don't see why the one would preclude the other. Honestly, there's not much a DFA can do to invest in either role. You get to be one of the best debuffer classes in the game basically by default as long as you pick the best invocations and the one feat; it doesn't take up much space. And the options for increasing breath weapon damage are so scarce that you can't really dedicate a build to it. Get your dragon spirit cincture, get your Power Surge, get your Fivefold Breath, maybe take Maximize Breath for the nova, and then you've pretty much exhausted your options.

(By the way, Power Surge is still a top tier feat just on its own. +1 damage per die on every attack. Very strong.)


Also, for as long as you don't intend to use your invocations 's mid-battle, you're free to wear the heaviest armour you can get your hands on, since none of the things that non-proficiency combat penalties actually matters for you since you don't roll attack if using breath weapon and don't have a need of invocate mid-battl
The initiative penalty can matter a lot, actually.

[lylsyly]

Dragonborn (Heart Aspect) Battle Sorcerer 1 / DFA 19. Any reasonable DM should accept that being able to cast in light armor should not hurt your Invocations plus having a breath weapon with a cool down qualifies you for metabreath feats.
As far as a damage dealer goes you can do it but your real value to the party is always going to be BFC and that is what you should focus on.