Swiftblade in 5e

[Hiro Quester]

I always wanted to play a Swiftblade (https://web.archive.org/web/20100327172812/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) in 3.5, a chaotic, impatient, speed-addicted, fast moving, act-first-think-later type of Gish.

But I'm playing in 5e now (and loving it). Has anyone tried to figure out a class or combination of them, that can play something like a haste-addicted Gish in 5e?

[Snowbluff]

Hmmm... honestly Bladesinger kind does it well. You get speed. You get Haste.

I made a Bladesinger/Swords Bard a while back, which added more speed. I ended up using the character, Dejavu Lightningdust, for other builds because I liked it so much.

Good speed races include Satyr and Tabaxi. Goblins get a free disengage.

If you want more speed flavor, Echo Knight can work well as "speed clones." Trickster cleric can do this as well, but to more limited effect.

[solidork]

Swashbuckler/Divine Soul Sorcerer gets you most of the stuff, but I think missing out on Freedom of Movement and going Swashbuckler/Bladesinger would be better.

Bladesinger with Alert/Mobile is probably better than going for Swasbuckler, now that I think about it.

[clash]

At least 2 levels of fighter for action surge. It's the only thing that compares to the swiftblade capstone.

[Hiro Quester]

Hmmm... Tabaxi Swords bard with Bladesinger does sound fun. Mobile and longstrider would be essential.

a couple of levels of fighter for action surge, or 3 of swashbuckler might be nice too.

Snowbluff, I'm intrigued by your Bladesinger/Swords Bard, Dejavu Lightningdust. I just found the images you made, on Twitter. Cool concept and cool art, too. If you have details to share, please do.

[RogueJK]

Good speed races include Satyr and Tabaxi. Goblins get a free disengage.

Also Air Genasi/Leonin/Wood Elf/Wood Half-Elf (35' movement), Dhampir (35' movement, including on walls and ceilings), Centaur (40' movement), or VHuman/CLineage with the Mobile feat (40' movement and auto-Disengage-on-attack).

There are other races who get limited-use movement-boosting options Proficiency Bonus times per day, like Eladin/Shadar-Kai (BA 30' teleport), Orc (BA Dash), Harengon (BA Jump-Disengage), or Swiftstride Shifter (40' movement while Shifted, plus Reaction 10' Disengage).

And Minotaur can make a BA unarmed attack after they take the Dash action, which could lend itself to a fast movement playstyle.

[Damon_Tor]

A sorcerer could melt down his other spell slots to make extra 3rd level slots to cast haste with. Quickened haste also seems pretty important, and proficiency in con saves to keep yourself from getting the haste knocked off you seems like a good idea. There's not a dedicated "gish" sorcerer subclass like there is for wizard, but the Clockwork Soul features lend themselves to durability at least.

[MrStabby]

So 4 elements monk could fit. High speed, blasty-fighty type guy. Add on feats like fey/shadowtouched if you want more magic. Use flurry of blows and martial arts to showcase your speed/number of attacks.

[RogueJK]

A sorcerer could melt down his other spell slots to make extra 3rd level slots to cast haste with. Quickened haste also seems pretty important, and proficiency in con saves to keep yourself from getting the haste knocked off you seems like a good idea. There's not a dedicated "gish" sorcerer subclass like there is for wizard, but the Clockwork Soul features lend themselves to durability at least.

Plus Sorcerers form the basis of many of the best multiclass gish builds, with stuff like Hexblade Sorlocks, Sorcadins, and Sorhexadins.

[Damon_Tor]

Plus Sorcerers form the basis of many of the best multiclass gish builds, with stuff like Hexblade Sorlocks, Sorcadins, and Sorhexadins.

Come to think of it, a Vengeance Paladin with Sorcerer 5 would be a baller Swiftblade. Get Polearm Master and then combine the ability to make OAs on approach with Relentless Avenger's half-movement after OA ability and you've got a guy that can just nope away from whatever while also stabbing it in the face.

[Snowbluff]

Snowbluff, I'm intrigued by your Bladesinger/Swords Bard, Dejavu Lightningdust. I just found the images you made, on Twitter. Cool concept and cool art, too. If you have details to share, please do.

Oh you're making me blush! :smallredface:

I think this was the original sheet (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2107105). It's been a while, so I don't remember everything. There's a lot I think I would do differently, given that the rules for this game were a tad different,and bladesinger and spell lists have been changed since then.

For example, I'd probably take blade singer to 6 for sure. It's a lot better than it used to be, I think I mostly had it for the AC buff and speed before. Also, I'd get haste. I think a friend was casting haste at the time.

[RogueJK]

Come to think of it, a Vengeance Paladin with Sorcerer 5 would be a baller Swiftblade. Get Polearm Master and then combine the ability to make OAs on approach with Relentless Avenger's half-movement after OA ability and you've got a guy that can just nope away from whatever while also stabbing it in the face.

Clockwork Soul is the obvious choice for Sorcerer subclass. Not only is it one of the best Gish subclasses for Sorcerer due to its access to non-Sorcerer Abjuration/Transmutation buff spells, it also means you can swap one of your Clockwork Magic spells known for Longstrider, gaining you +10' movement for 1 hour at a time, Concentration-free.

Paladins and Sorcerers normally can't access Longstrider.

[Hiro Quester]

These are all very cool ideas. I guess in addition to having amazing speed, the other thing a swift blade does very well, is make the action economy sit down crying in the corner while you do all the things very quickly.


They also get a great deal of effect from casting one spell (miss chances, freedom of movement, etc). Perhaps a blade singer does this kind of thing well by starting a blade song.

Between a fighter’s action surge, and a sorcerer’s quicken spell, there is also the possibility of getting many things done in one turn.

Add in a character who also has many other good uses for their bonus action, either extra attacks or good bonus action spells or abilities, and do you have someone who can take advantage of the action economy very effectively.

Having good reactions and good initiative is also an advantage.


What kind of gish builds can do these things, in addition to moving fast?

[RogueJK]

What kind of gish builds can do these things, in addition to moving fast?

A DEX-based Battlemaster Fighter 5 or 6/Clockwork Soul Sorcerer X with the Alert feat gets:
*Action Surge
*+10 to Initiative from Alert and max DEX
*Ambush Maneuver for a further +1d8 to Initiative
*Absorb Elements, Shield, Silvery Barbs, and Brace and/or Riposte Maneuver for Reactions
*Haste spell for added speed and action
*Longstrider for non-Concentration long-duration +10' speed (could combo with Extend Spell metamagic for 2 hour duration)
*Quicken Spell metamagic for BA casting, including Quickening BB/GFB for an additional BA attack


Or a Watcher Paladin 7/Clockwork Soul Sorcerer X would trade Action Surge and Battlemaster Maneuvers for higher level spells slots, Divine Smite, Aura of Protection, and Aura of the Sentinel for +Proficiency to Initiative rolls.

Or a Swashbuckler Rogue 3+/Clockwork Soul Sorcerer X would get +CHA to Initiative and some additional BA options, including the ability to combo their Fancy Footwork "free Disengage" with BA Cunning Action Dash for double movement speed in many turns while avoiding an OA. Add in Hexblade 1 to the mix for another BA option with Hexblade's Curse, as well as medium armor and shield proficiency, CHA-SADness, and a short rest recharging Longstrider spell slot.

Or a Swords Bard 6/Clockwork Soul Sorcerer X retains full spellcaster progression for metamagic point generation and upcasting, and gets you +10' movement when you take the Attack action, Mobile Flourish for added movement using your Reaction, plus half-Proficiency to Initiative from Jack of All Trades.


Just be extra careful with Haste, since you're planning to fight in melee... Taking a bunch of hits and losing Concentration means you are incapacitated and can't move, until the end of your next turn.

[Salmon343]

A DEX-based Battlemaster Fighter 5 or 6/Clockwork Soul Sorcerer X with the Alert feat gets:
*Action Surge
*+10 to Initiative from Alert and max DEX
*Ambush Maneuver for a further +dice to Initiative
*Absorb Elements, Shield, Silvery Barbs, and Brace and/or Riposte Maneuver for Reactions
*Haste spell for added speed and action
*Longstrider for non-Concentration long-duration +10' speed (could combo with Extend Spell metamagic for 2 hour duration)
*Quicken Spell metamagic, including Quickening BB/GFB for a BA attack

Yep, I think Fighter / Sorcerer is the way to go. You want Action Surge for multi spell casting without being limited to cantrips, and you want to go for at least 5 fighter levels as a Swiftblade that can only attack once per turn without spending resources isn't really a Swiftblade.

An alternative to Battlemaster is Eldritch Knight - you get 1/3 casting, so claw back 2 fullcaster-effective spellcaster levels in slots (if you go for 6 fighter, which does put you one level behind in spells known). If you can stomach going 7 levels in Fighter, you can cantrip and attack without spending metamagic points - budget Bladesinger. (It does burn your bonus action, however.) Although Eldritch Knight casts on int, with careful spell choice that won't matter, you can feel free to dump the stat.

From memory Swiftblade loses 4 caster levels, so it at least preserves that aspect of it..!

[Snowbluff]

Something I would note about haste is that if you have a build that uses the bonus action for an additional attack (two weapon fighting, polearm master, or crossbow expert), hasting yourself has a smaller cost on your action economy, as you can trigger that bonus action attack with the additional attack action from haste, even if it is just one attack. This is is something I did a lot with Marianne the kobold rogue paladin.

Also, I think I've seen back and forth as to whether or not a bladesinger can use their ability to cast cantrips with this additional action. Either way, a bladesinger would be able to attack 3 times, one being GFB/BB, and then hit once with their offhand, with this sequence being an attack shorter on the haste turn.

Furthermore, I think the "arcane" casters definitely win in terms of reactions. Absorb Elements and Shield are pretty big ones, along with Warlock's Hellish Rebuke.