Fighter Feature Brainstorm

[Yakk]

What kind of features work with a "mundane" fighter?

Plausibly by later tiers they are going to be extraordinary or supernatural-esque.

* Second Wind could be more awesome
* Action Surge could add to other stuff, like speed or jumping distance or the like
* Being able to push, trip or grab foes without expending attacks
* Jumping further
* Climbing or using walls to bounce off
* Going over/under foes
* Pushing foes into other foes, having them interfere
* Climbing on larger foes, making it harder to attack them
* Building weapons or armor or the like with extraordinary skill
* Using improvised weapons effectively
* Disarming foes and using their weapons against them
* Staggering or stunning foes to be able to clear space
* Interfere with other creature's attacks and protect allies
* Coordinating attacks to make them more effective, or help allies land blows
* Surviving horrid wounds, at least for a while
* Using getting wounded to defeat a foe
* Scaring foes into retreating
* Rallying allies morale and making them more effective
* Providing tactical plans, both on the fly and preparation
* Spotting weaknesses in enemies offense and defense
* Determine capabilities of a foe by watching or looking at them
* Impress people with feats of weapon or physical skill
* Train civilians to be more capable
* Use whips or ropes to swing around terrain
* Grapple foes at range using improvised or reach weapons.
* Use foes as leverage to move around battlefield
* Use foes as shields
* Combine movement with allies (jump off them, bounce off them, fight back-to-back, etc)
* Knock foes flying
* Use arrows or other thrown weapons to produce footholds to climb
* Break enemy weapons during parry
* Remove armor from a foe during combat

There is the problem, left over from OD&D, that the Fighter and Rogue have significant conceptual overlap - the old Conan problem. To some extent, anything outside

We can also steal from "eastern" warrior tropes (not-wizards).

* Survive insane falls
* Ride catapult stones
* Run on raindrops
* Use water as a weapon
* Catch ranged weapons and ammunition
* Cut trees or similar stuff with single blows
* Parry ranged weapons or ammunition

[GalacticAxekick]

You should check out my Fighter rewrite (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/gLzQ17TY7JoL) and my combat houserules (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/pF3pQAU8c). Almost every single feature you requested is part of one or the other.

Note that the Fighter revision has a special double-subclass system, where you choose one subclass for combat features (called your Fighting Style) and one subclass for non-combat features (called your Line of Duty). I'll clearly note where each feature can be found (combat rules, Fighter base class, Fighting Style , Line of Duty).


* Climbing on larger foes, making it harder to attack themThis is part of my grappling rules.

* Disarming foes and using their weapons against themThis is part of my disarming rules

* Grapple foes at range using improvised or reach weapons.This is made possible by the "snare", "garrote" and "lasso" weapon properties, which a few simple weapons have, and which many improvised weapons should have.

* Use whips or ropes to swing around terrainThis is part of my lasso weapon description.


* Action Surge could add to other stuff, like speed or jumping distance or the likeMy homebrew Fighter can use action surge at any moment, whether it is their turn or not. If you want to push this further, you could let Action Surge grant a whole turn instead of just an action.


* Climbing or using walls to bounce off9th level, Lightweight Agility. You can run and jump off walls as long as you aren't wearing heavy armor.


* Survive insane falls9th level, Lightweight Agility. You can reduce falling damage by 5 x your level.


* Using improvised weapons effectively4th level, the Pragmatist bonus feat. You gain proficiency with improvised weapons and advantage on attacks when you first equip one (which is meant to compensate for their meager 1d4 damage die).


* Being able to push, trip or grab foes without expending attacks
* Knock foes flying3rd level, Awesome Blows. You can push enemies 10 feet for free when you hit them with a melee or thrown weapon attack.


* Staggering or stunning foes to be able to clear space3rd level, Staggering Blows. You can give up the damage of a melee or thrown weapon attack to briefly stun the target instead.


* Cut trees or similar stuff with single blows4th level, the Master of Finesse & Master of Force bonus feats. Your weapon attacks ignore damage resistance and break through most objects.


* Use water as a weapon6th level, Vacuum Strike. You can fire a wave or jet or air or water by swinging a melee weapon.


* Being able to push, trip or grab foes without expending attacks
* Knock foes flying3rd level, Awesome Blows. Guardians get this feature too.


* Staggering or stunning foes to be able to clear space3rd level, Staggering Blows. Guardians get this feature too.


* Interfere with other creature's attacks and protect allies
* Parry ranged weapons or ammunition
* Catch ranged weapons and ammunition1st level, Guardian's Ward. You gain a second pool of hit points that you can use to absorb the damage of attacks that target you, targets with your reach, or targets whom you grant cover. If you have a shield, you can also absorb damage from Dex save effects like collapsing roofs, dragon breath and spells.


* Surviving horrid wounds, at least for a while15th level, Last Man Standing. Being reduced to 0 hit points doesn't knock you unconscious.


* Use arrows or other thrown weapons to produce footholds to climb1st level, Trick Shots. You can use ranged weapons to perform any conceivable trick that does not target a creature or an object that is worn or carried.


* Impress people with feats of weapon or physical skill2nd level, Peaceful Negotiation. If a creature has fewer hit points that you, you can use your action to charm it.


* Scaring foes into retreating2nd level, Peaceful Negotiation, again. Also 2nd level, Violent Negotiation. When you would reduce a foe to 0 hit points, you can reduce it to 1 hit point instead, and make it unwaveringly loyal to you until it finishes a long rest. Tell it to run.


* Rallying allies morale and making them more effective10th level, Inspiring Leader. Your allies can't be charmed or frightened unless you are charmed or frightened.


* Providing tactical plans, both on the fly and preparation
* Spotting weaknesses in enemies offense and defense
* Determine capabilities of a foe by watching or looking at them2nd level, Know Your Enemy. When you see a creature use any feature, you learn the description of that feature. When you see an enemy spend a resource (like spell slots, ki points, or "uses per short/long rest") you learn how much it just spent and how much it has remaining. The feature does not automatically grant you plans, but it gives you all the info on weaknesses/strengths/capabilities you need to hatch a plan yourself.



Some of your requests aren't covered by my Fighter, but could easily be added to it or extrapolated from the official rules:


* Jumping furtherI would add this to the Lightweight Agility that my homebrew Fighter gains at 9th level.

* Going over/under foesThe DMG has rules for this. Anyone can make a Strength (Athletics) contest to push through an enemy space, or a Dexterity (Acrobatics) context to slip through.

* Use foes as shieldsThe rules for cover already say that if cover causes an attack to miss, the cover gets hit. Just treat a grappled creature as 1/2 cover.

* Use foes as leverage to move around battlefieldI'd say running on an enemy's face is an Acrobatics check.

* Combine movement with allies (jump off them, bounce off them, etc)I'd say jumping and bouncing off of allies is an Acrobatics check.

* Pushing foes into other foes, having them interfereI'd say that if you push a foe into another foe, treat it as if you shoved the second foe. It has to roll Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) to hold its footing.

And finally, some of your requests simply aren't covered. We could brainstorm ways to write them!

* Second Wind could be more awesome
* Building weapons or armor or the like with extraordinary skill
* Break enemy weapons during parry
* Remove armor from a foe during combat
* Fight back-to-back
* Coordinating attacks to make them more effective, or help allies land blows
* Using getting wounded to defeat a foe
* Ride catapult stones
* Run on raindrops




There is the problem, left over from OD&D, that the Fighter and Rogue have significant conceptual overlap - the old Conan problem. I disagree completely! The Fighter and the Rogue have almost zero overlap, except for their lack of magical/superhuman abilities.

The Fighter is defined by superior fighting skill. Fighters train their bodies and minds to embody techniques that let them defeat stronger/faster/more durable/more numerous foes in face-to-face battles.

The Rogue is defined by CHEATING. Rogues limber their bodies and open their minds to seize circumstantial advantages. Without circumstantial advantages, Rogues are as helpless as commoners, lacking both the fighting skills of a Fighter and the raw strength/speed/durability of monsters.

My revised Rogue (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/B4j0mnm1r) is built around this concept. Almost every one of its features is about leveraging a circumstantial advantage.

[sandmote]

I do believe the relatively common, low effort solution is to make the Battle Master's features part of the base class, instead of it being a subclass.

The following items on your list are things I associate with monks:
* Survive insane falls
* Parry ranged weapons or ammunition
* Catch ranged weapons and ammunition
* Being able to push, trip or grab foes without expending attacks
* Jumping further
* Climbing or using walls to bounce off
* Staggering or stunning foes to be able to clear space

The following items on your list are things I associate with barbarians:
* Survive insane falls
* Surviving horrid wounds, at least for a while
* Using getting wounded to defeat a foe
* Impress people with feats of weapon or physical skill

The following items on your list I think are covered by the Intercept and Protection fighting styles:
* Interfere with other creature's attacks and protect allies
* Combine movement with allies ... fight back-to-back, etc)

Building weapons or armor or the like with extraordinary skill also seems like the artificer thing.

From the rest of your list, I think the following could work well:
* As a reaction you move somewhere else, thematically to fill a gap in allied defenses.
* Attempt to disarm an opponent as a reaction after they damage you.
* The last feature of the UA menacing feat, or something based on it.
* Remove the Intercept and Protection fighting styles and make a base class feature with the same theme.
* Move the Battlemaster's Know Your Enemy feature to the base class, and replace it with something else on the battlemaster.

I'd also make Indomitable work like Legendary Resistance, but that's a personal peeve.

[GalacticAxekick]

The following items on your list are things I associate with monks: [...]I'd say that almost everything the Monk base class does rightfully belongs to the Fighter and Rogue.

Right now, the Monk is "the martial who does extraordinary things" while the Fighter and Rogue are "the martials who do ordinary things". But that makes no sense. Class doesn't define how cool you can be. Class defines what your area of expertise is. LEVEL defines how cool you can be.

Fighters are "the martials who are skilled in combat". Low level Fighters should be "the martials who have ordinary combat skills". And high level Fighters should be "the martial who have extraordinary combat skills". Deflecting lasers, catching arrows, effortlessly pushing foes around, and delivering stunning blows are all feats of extraordinary combat skill that rightfully belong to the Fighter. I'd go as far as to say that feats of extraordinary physical fitness and coordination like bouncing off of walls, jumping great distances, and surviving high falls are fitting for (but not exclusive to) high level Fighters too.


The following items on your list are things I associate with barbarians: [...]I wouldn't say that everything the Barbarian base class does rightfully belongs to Fighters or Rogues. Barbarians are "the martials with superhuman abilities", and so bulletproof skin, extraordinary speed, enhanced Strength and sharpened senses are theirs to keep.

Still, they don't have a monopoly on physical fitness. Surviving high falls and serious injuries isn't superhuman, and so Fighters and Rogues should be capable. Impressing people with feats of skill belongs to the class based on skill (Fighters).


Building weapons or armor or the like with extraordinary skill also seems like the artificer thing. I agree 100%


* Remove the Intercept and Protection fighting styles and make a base class feature with the same theme. I removed both fighting styles and build a subclass—the Guardian—around the same theme.


* As a reaction you move somewhere else, thematically to fill a gap in allied defenses. My Guardian subclass has this in the form of its 1st level "Lunge" feature.


* Attempt to disarm an opponent as a reaction after they damage you. This is a really good idea!


* The last feature of the UA menacing feat, or something based on it. That's a pretty good idea!


* Move the Battlemaster's Know Your Enemy feature to the base class, and replace it with something else on the battlemaster.Agreed! I did something similar, by giving my Fighter a feature called "size up" that lets them see certain statistics, and then giving one subclass a feature called Know Your Enemy which lets them see entire feature descriptions and resource pools.


I'd also make Indomitable work like Legendary Resistance, but that's a personal peeve.Agreed!

[clash]

Someone had mentioned using the warlock as a bit of a template for fighters. In that spirit why not collapse champion and some of the base fighter features into something I call fighting techniques. Let players pick from level gates features to build either a complex or simple base fighter.

Some examples:

Remarkable athlete
You gain proficiency in athletics and acrobatics.

Superior athlete
Requires level 9, remarkable athlete

Improved Critical
Your weapon attacks score a critical hit on 19 or 20.

Brutal critical
When you roll a critical hit you roll an additional damage die.

Agile fighter
Requires level 9
Your weapon attacks with finesse weapons may add both your dexterity and strength modifier to the damage rolls.

Acton surge
Once per short rest you may take a second action on your turn.

Acton frenzy
Requires level 17, action surge
You can use action surge twice between rests.

Sharpshooter
Your ranged attacks ignore half and three quarters cover and don't suffer disadvantage for being made at long range.

Imposing Appearance
You gain proficiency in the intimidate skill. As well you may make intimidation checks using strength instead of charisma.

Two weapon adept
Requires level 9
When you take the bonus action to engage in two weapon fighting, you may make an additional attack with the same weapon as part of the same bonus action.

Parkour
Requires level 9
You may run up straight vertical walls provided your movement ends on a flat surface.

[paladinn]

For me, I wanted to be have a "generic" fighter ala editions before 3e. What I came up with was very simple, but better (IMO) than the champion. It borrows a lot from the UA Brute subclass:

L3 - Improved Critical, add proficiency bonus to damage

L7 - Add proficiency bonus to saves

L10 - 2nd or improved fighting style

L15 - Superior Critical, Devastating Critical - add class level to damage on critical hit

L18 - Survivor (from champion)

Something else that I'm looking into is swapping some of the not-so-great features (2nd Wind, Action Surge, Indomitable) with feats. The fighter used to be the feat master in 3e; this is a way of recapturing a little of that. Actually All the class features from fighter or champion could be swapped out, but I think some should be kept so it still looks like a fighter.

[Dienekes]

Perhaps this old work (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?590991-Revised-Combat-Manoeuvre-System-PEACH) from Composer9 might interest you.
You could also look at LevelUp 5e for some inspiration.

Or just go with actual martial arts

Warding: Swinging your weapon around in such a way that people can't get close to you. And if they do, they pretty much automatically take an attack.
Binding: Much easier than a full disarm, blocks the enemy's weapon(or limb for monsters) and forces them to take some action to try and release it.
Aggressively pressing someone attempting to retreat from you/Positioning so the usual disengaging options aren't available
Various mini-grapple maneuvers about nudging and throwing off balance to open up for a better strike
Precision attacks meant to find the gaps in armor

Frankly a lot more defensive oriented maneuvers. Parries and ripostes, obviously, but getting a solid parry that would then allow some more interesting responses could be an interesting interaction. Setting up grapples, or trips, or straight stopping all further attacks made by the attacker, or abilities that set up the actions you're going to take on your turn could be interesting.

And to bring up a pet peeve, here's something that I think Fighters should have had for awhile now.

If they have a shield and an area of effect ability is pointed at them, let their shield protect not just themselves but all allies behind them from the effect. They've used this ability in D&D art eight times as far as I can count. Including against dragon breath. And they still haven't actually made it possible.

[Yakk]

Binding is great! Being able to interfere with a specific attack type of the foe can even be made generic.

It can also act as a step before disarm.


If they have a shield and an area of effect ability is pointed at them, let their shield protect not just themselves but all allies behind them from the effect. They've used this ability in D&D art eight times as far as I can count. Including against dragon breath. And they still haven't actually made it possible.
Something like:

Bulwark: If you succeed at a save against an area effect ability and are between the origin of the effect and a creature who failed the save, they creature who failed the save can reroll the save but must keep the new result.

[paladinn]

Binding is great! Being able to interfere with a specific attack type of the foe can even be made generic.

It can also act as a step before disarm.


Something like:

Bulwark: If you succeed at a save against an area effect ability and are between the origin of the effect and a creature who failed the save, they creature who failed the save can reroll the save but must keep the new result.

Sounds like, at least eventually, features like this would end up requiring a mat and minis or at least a grid.

[Dienekes]

Binding is great! Being able to interfere with a specific attack type of the foe can even be made generic.

It can also act as a step before disarm.


Something like:

Bulwark: If you succeed at a save against an area effect ability and are between the origin of the effect and a creature who failed the save, they creature who failed the save can reroll the save but must keep the new result.

Honestly, I'd go bigger.

Bulwark: Reaction. If you pass your saving throw, all creatures in which you are between them and the origin of area of effect ability automatically pass their saving throw.

Let the tank tank. Make it require a magic shield if you really want to. But this is the kind of thing I think a Fighter should be able to do come level 8-9ish.

[GalacticAxekick]

My take on the Bulwark/tank idea, which I used for my Guardian subclass beginning at 1st level


Guardian's Ward
As a guardian, you possess greater defenses than the typical fighter, which are represented by a pool of hit points equal to twice your fighter level + either your Strength or Dexterity modifier. This is your ward.

When an attack or Magic Missile that you can see hits you, a target within your reach, or a target whom you grant cover, you can let your ward take the damage instead. When you are equiped with a shield, you can also let your ward take damage from effects that force targets to make Dexterity saves (e.g. Catapult, Fireball a collapsing roof, or a red dragon's breath).

Your ward cannot absorb damage while it is reduced to 0 hit points, or while you are prone, restrained or incapacitated. Your ward's hit points are restored when you use your action to do anything other than Attack or cast a spell.

Plus a feature to help the Guardian be in the right place at the right time:


Lunge
As a guardian, you can move up to your speed at any moment—whether it is your turn or not. You can use this movement to intercept any event you can see, or to escape area effects, but not to escape effects that target you.

You can't move on your next turn after using this feature, except by taking the Dash action. In addition, you can't use this feature again until the end of that turn.