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GoC
2007-11-28, 01:12 PM
How many ECL 20 PCs does it take to kill this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/colossus.htm#fleshColossus)?:smallwink:

Nothing too cheesy please.

The Glyphstone
2007-11-28, 01:33 PM
It's a CR27....cheese is required to stand a chance against it at ECL20.

Now wait for someone to say "a single 20th level wizard".

JaxGaret
2007-11-28, 01:35 PM
One. Even without resorting to Batman.

All you need is someone who can fly and ping it from long range with arrows. Simple.

A different question is: how many ECL20 characters would it take to defeat the Flesh Colossus and its 29th level spellcasting creator.

The answer: a whole lot.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-28, 01:36 PM
1 Wizard of high enough level to cast solid fog. Then, cast an energy substituted sphere of X changed to Sonic, and spam until it falls. If it exits the fog, cast another one. And take the feat that allow you to contrate on something as a swift action.

Draz74
2007-11-28, 01:39 PM
It's a CR27....cheese is required to stand a chance against it at ECL20.

Did you miss the part where you can have, if necessary, 12 characters to deal with it?

purplearcanist
2007-11-28, 01:42 PM
One. A Cleric 17/Paladin 3 that flies 305 ft. above it with a powerful ranged weapon, cleric buffs like divine power, and lots of adamantine arrows (that can bypass the DR). The paladin levels are to avoid the fear effect.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-28, 01:43 PM
An arbiturary number of Paladin 3/Whatever 17.

tyckspoon
2007-11-28, 01:43 PM
1 Wizard of high enough level to cast solid fog. Then, cast an energy substituted sphere of X changed to Sonic, and spam until it falls. If it exits the fog, cast another one. And take the feat that allow you to contrate on something as a swift action.

The Solid Fog would still be helpful to slow it down, but I don't think Sonic Orbs work. The Collosuses (Collosi?) don't have that line in the golem entries about 'resists everything that allows Spell Resistance'; they're just flat out immune to any magic except whatever specifically affects them. For the Flesh Collosus, it's immune to all magic except negative energy, which heals it.


cleric buffs like divine power, and lots of adamantine arrows (that can bypass the DR). The paladin levels are to avoid the fear effect.

DR 15/adamantine and Epic. Good luck with that; the rules are built such as to make sure that a non-epic character cannot acquire the +6 base enhancement needed to make a weapon Epic.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-11-28, 01:44 PM
I'm glad someone didn't pull out ID38 or the Mortiverse for this challenge...

But yes, properly equipped, a 20th level Wizard could do it. Maybe an Ultimate Magus, or a gestalt Ultimate Magus/Mystic Theurge. Or even better: A Wizard/Cleric/Dweomerkeeper!

purplearcanist
2007-11-28, 01:45 PM
1 Wizard of high enough level to cast solid fog. Then, cast an energy substituted sphere of X changed to Sonic, and spam until it falls. If it exits the fog, cast another one. And take the feat that allow you to contrate on something as a swift action.

That doesn't work. It has magic immunity (except for negetive energy, which instead heals it). And it also has a fear effect that extends for a mile, so be prepared to run unless you have very high saving throws.

JaxGaret
2007-11-28, 01:47 PM
I'm glad someone didn't pull out ID38 or the Mortiverse for this challenge...

But yes, properly equipped, a 20th level Wizard could do it. Maybe an Ultimate Magus, or a gestalt Ultimate Magus/Mystic Theurge. Or even better: A Wizard/Cleric/Dweomerkeeper!

There's no need to resort to any sort of cheese to win this battle.

All you need to do is stay more than 300 feet away from the thing and ping it with arrows. Pretty much any ECL20 character with the ability to fly and adamantine arrows can take this thing down if it's the only enemy.

EDIT: You also need Fear immunity.

Lyinginbedmon
2007-11-28, 01:47 PM
Solid Fog doesn't allow Spell Resistance, so magic immunity doesn't work.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-28, 01:48 PM
Far as I know, spheres don't allow resistance. Since they don't allow resistance, the colossus isn't immune. Which means it takes damage.

Omniplex
2007-11-28, 01:48 PM
well, the first problem is it's frightful presence. A high will save probably won't cut it, you probably need some sort of immunity to fear. like the kind a paladin has. it's immunity to magic makes wizards and such mostly useless, except as buffers. So the casters buff the meleeists, or buff themselves and be meleeist instead. they also seem to need an immunity to nauseation. Warforges could do it, I suppose. So, a bunch of warforged paladins, clerics, and wizards could probably take it.

purplearcanist
2007-11-28, 01:48 PM
There's no need to resort to any sort of cheese to win this battle.

All you need to do is stay more than 300 feet away from the thing and ping it with arrows. Pretty much any ECL20 character with the ability to fly and adamantine arrows can take this thing down if it's the only enemy.

Remember, there is also a fear effect:

"All who come within a mile of the flesh colossus must make Will saves (DC 55). Those who make their saves are shaken. Those who fail by 20 points or less are frightened. Those who fail by 21 to 40 points are panicked. Those who fail by 41 points or more are cowering. The DC is Charisma-based."

JaxGaret
2007-11-28, 01:49 PM
Remember, there is also a fear effect:

"All who come within a mile of the flesh colossus must make Will saves (DC 55). Those who make their saves are shaken. Those who fail by 20 points or less are frightened. Those who fail by 21 to 40 points are panicked. Those who fail by 41 points or more are cowering. The DC is Charisma-based."

Oops. It's DC 55, right. So you need to get Fear immunity from some source as well. But that should be available to pretty much any ECL20 character, no?

purplearcanist
2007-11-28, 01:49 PM
Far as I know, spheres don't allow resistance. Since they don't allow resistance, the colossus isn't immune. Which means it takes damage.

"Magic Immunity (Ex)
A flesh colossus is immune to all magical and supernatural effects except those that use negative energy (see below). "

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-28, 01:52 PM
Items created by [conjuration] effects aren't magical, are they? Only the spell is.

As for the fear, if I'm not mistaken, there's a standart that can hang from your backpack and gives you fear immunity. If it does, buh-bye frightful prescence.

Emperor Demonking
2007-11-28, 01:53 PM
A palladin/ranger might be able to take it if thier lucky, ctually add a cleric for good measure.

DraPrime
2007-11-28, 01:54 PM
A level 1 wizard could beat this. He just needs to be flying in an F-16.

tyckspoon
2007-11-28, 02:02 PM
Items created by [conjuration] effects aren't magical, are they? Only the spell is.

Which is why the don't allow Spell Resistance and can be summoned in an antimagic field. I think the intent of the Collossus's immunity would void attacking it with Orbs. If they do work, you wasted a step using energy sub (Sonic); the Flesh Collossus doesn't have any kind of energy resistance...

A Rogue with the ability to sneak attack constructs could do it with touch-attacking Acid flask sneak attacks (The Collossus also has no ability to detect invisible attackers). Unfortunately, that will require the rogue to be well inside the standing 100 foot Antimagic Field, which would negate any items he is using to avoid fear and nausea. So.. Warforged Pal 3/Rogue 17, Hide and Move Silently maximised?

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-28, 02:04 PM
So...we have one character who can beat it already. Any other ideas?

GoC
2007-11-28, 02:06 PM
One. Even without resorting to Batman.

All you need is someone who can fly and ping it from long range with arrows. Simple.

DR 15+antimagic field.

Azerian Kelimon: 100ft radius Antimagic field+magic immunity

Magic Immunity is NOT infinite SR.
It's immune to any magical effect irrespective of wether it allows SR.

Orbs don't have the range to get to it.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-28, 02:11 PM
You put a solid fog, cast your orb, lure it there, exit the field to get more orbs, etc. and you tag along with your orb. We win. Period. Quite simply, just with a MOUNT, and the items and spells I used, you win.

Prometheus
2007-11-28, 02:11 PM
Here is how I would figure it:
A) must be to resist the two Fortitude saves and the Will save - the former of which that activates within 300 ft and the latter of which a mile. I'm certain that there are a variety of undead characters and I'm fairly certain that there are some spells and/or magic items that could work otherwise don't know off hand
B) Must not use direct magic and get over 45 AC
C) Must be able to withstand the damage (thank god it doesn't have power attack), and either keep at a distance or make no one character vital (because of Stomp).

The results: Two a Cleric and a Ranger
-The entire party would be 12th vampires (so that they wouldn't be afraid, nauseated, or take ability damage) with Boots of Haste, Boots of Springing and Striding, or mounts that won't die (to stay out of his way)
-There would probably only need to be one cleric for healing and buffs since the average ranged damaged is 26 and vampires have DR 10 and regenerate 5 per turn.
-To get over the 45 AC, I would have a buffed ranger with a +6 epic might composite (5) bow with adamantine arrows (I think thats in WBL...). Before buffs, assuming 28 Dex (18 standard, 2 ability score increases, 4 vampire, and 4 magic), it would be +33/+28/+23 attack bonus (+7 epic, +9 dex bonus, +12 BAB, +1 WFocus, +4 Zen Archery) and 1d8+18 (+6 favored enemy, +5 str, +7 epic). The ranger could use Manyshot or Rapid Shot were she so inclined, and she'd be buffed with extra damage.
-It would be a lot of hacking through that 630 average hp, but it is easy to see that this strategy would in fact kill the Colossus

EDIT: purplearcanist hit the main idea before I did, only, you would be screwed the battle started within the 300 radius.

GoC
2007-11-28, 02:11 PM
Which is why the don't allow Spell Resistance and can be summoned in an antimagic field.

Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines, except for the colossus’s own supernatural abilities.


A Rogue with the ability to sneak attack constructs could do it with touch-attacking Acid flask sneak attacks (The Collossus also has no ability to detect invisible attackers). Unfortunately, that will require the rogue to be well inside the standing 100 foot Antimagic Field, which would negate any items he is using to avoid fear and nausea. So.. Warforged Pal 3/Rogue 17, Hide and Move Silently maximised?

Invisibility would be negated within it's special antimagic field.

Dammit people! +10000 to Hide does NOT mean invisible!!:smallfurious:

EDIT: modified AMF=no buffs will work and you can't cast ANY spells within the area.

EDIT2: ECL 20 means no epic items.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-28, 02:14 PM
Yeah. The spell finalizes. Not so much the orb. It's still there, dishing it out. likewise, the fog is there. Conjuration subtype creates things, so they don't vanish. Tough luck, they still exist. You just can't direct them, so they'll keep a-goin', through the colossus, thus doing gooooood damage to it.

mostlyharmful
2007-11-28, 02:17 PM
DR15 isn't really that much, take a good high str bonus composite longbow, a quiver of infinate arrows (think its called a quiver of Nariel or something) and a cloak of wings. With those a level 3 pally can do it. Just keep spamming the thing all day with a damage cap in excess of 15 and you can do it eventually. Might need to take a pack lunch with you though. and heres hoping its not near anything important. You'd be rolling once a round for the nat20 that's the only way to get a hit in, then hope you roll high enough to get 16+ damage. Plink, plink, plink, plink, plink, etc.......

GoC
2007-11-28, 02:19 PM
Yeah. The spell finalizes. Not so much the orb. It's still there, dishing it out. likewise, the fog is there.
Orbs don't have the range to hit it unless you cast within 100ft.

btw: Paladin 20 with boots of flying and 10 wands of Acid Arrow. Does it work?

tyckspoon
2007-11-28, 02:21 PM
Invisibility would be negated within it's special antimagic field.

Dammit people! +10000 to Hide does NOT mean invisible!!:smallfurious:

EDIT: modified AMF=no buffs will work and you can't cast ANY spells within the area.

EDIT2: ECL 20 means no epic items.

I had written that before checking back and noticing the AMF had an extended area. It's more a side note for people whose strategies involve attacking from outside the AMF radius. And no, a huge hide check doesn't mean you're invisible, but it is almost as good when you're sneaking around a creature whose only skill is Jump (unless you want to stat out the animating ghost, GoC, so we know what kind of skills and mental stats we actually have to deal with. The Flesh Collossus is a much more intimidating challenge if it's intelligent.)

Fun fact: Epic items are still suppressable by an antimagic field, so even if you can break WBL to get an epic weapon, it still won't bypass the DR.

Draz74
2007-11-28, 02:22 PM
A level 1 wizard could beat this. He just needs to be flying in an F-16.

I think that exceeds Wealth By Level limits ... :smallwink:


The Solid Fog would still be helpful to slow it down, but I don't think Sonic Orbs work. The Collosuses (Collosi?) don't have that line in the golem entries about 'resists everything that allows Spell Resistance'; they're just flat out immune to any magic except whatever specifically affects them. For the Flesh Collosus, it's immune to all magic except negative energy, which heals it.

I'm not understanding why Solid Fog would have any effect on it ... Wall of Force, Prismatic Wall, Solid Fog should all fail. Wall of Iron/Wall of Stone would work, but only because they're Instantaneous effects.


DR 15/adamantine and Epic. Good luck with that; the rules are built such as to make sure that a non-epic character cannot acquire the +6 base enhancement needed to make a weapon Epic.

Easy. All you need is a +4 Construct-Bane weapon, which becomes a +6 weapon vs. Constructs. That will beat DR /epic. (Yes, this actually works; there was a Sage Advice or FAQ supporting it at one point.)

EDIT: Hmmm. That's really cheesy, how the Colossus' AM Field doesn't negate its own [Su] abilities, because DR /epic is considered to be a [Su] ability. Well, I guess the +4 Construct-Bane weapon actually wouldn't work, due to the AM Field. But neither would an epic item. The thing might as well have DR 15/-. So ... Mountain Hammer Maneuvers, anyone?

Frosty
2007-11-28, 02:27 PM
Can a Warblade use Iron Heart Surge to end the AMF at least temporarily?

In any case, some sort of UberCharger can deal thousands of damage and kill it. DR or not.

GoC
2007-11-28, 02:31 PM
DR15 isn't really that much, take a good high str bonus composite longbow, a quiver of infinate arrows (think its called a quiver of Nariel or something) and a cloak of wings. With those a level 3 pally can do it. Just keep spamming the thing all day with a damage cap in excess of 15 and you can do it eventually. Might need to take a pack lunch with you though. and heres hoping its not near anything important. You'd be rolling once a round for the nat20 that's the only way to get a hit in, then hope you roll high enough to get 16+ damage. Plink, plink, plink, plink, plink, etc.......

Hitting it is easy (20 BAB+12 Dex+5 bow+3 greater weapon focus) but you will need to get a critical or a Huge crossbow to get past DR.


Easy. All you need is a +4 Construct-Bane weapon, which becomes a +6 weapon vs. Constructs. That will beat DR /epic. (Yes, this actually works; there was a Sage Advice or FAQ supporting it at one point.)
It's antimagic field negates all magic effects and items within 100ft.


I'm not understanding why Solid Fog would have any effect on it ... Wall of Force, Prismatic Wall, Solid Fog should all fail. Wall of Iron/Wall of Stone would work, but only because they're Instantaneous effects.
Solid Fog doesn't work but that doesn't matter because the real problem is Orb spells.

technophile
2007-11-28, 02:33 PM
DR 15/adamantine and Epic. Good luck with that; the rules are built such as to make sure that a non-epic character cannot acquire the +6 base enhancement needed to make a weapon Epic.
Adamantine Arrows +4, Colossus (or Flesh-Colossus) Bane.

+6 with regards to the target, making them capable of bypassing Epic resistance.

Edit: I see this was covered on this page already. :smallredface:

GoC
2007-11-28, 02:36 PM
Adamantine Arrows +4, Colossus (or Flesh-Colossus) Bane.

+6 with regards to the target, making them capable of bypassing Epic resistance.

Everyone seems to forget the antimagic field.:smallamused:

Anyway, let's assume that Conjuration spells like Orbs and Acid Arrow are negated. Then what?

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-28, 02:38 PM
Lesse:

It's [creation] subtype, so it subsists. Conclusion, it works.


The thing about this is that with the fog, the orbs will pass right through, but do damage EVERY turn ('slong as you make their speed equal to 5'. Wait, doesn't solid fog reduce the speed of the orbs?) that the colossus is in the fog, more or less.

Another one: Sending in Titans. Of course, this one is big cheeseaton.


Edit: negating the spells is DM fiating, since it contradicts the rules. If that's the case, I bring PAZUZU PAZUZU PAZUZU!

Draz74
2007-11-28, 02:40 PM
Can a Warblade use Iron Heart Surge to end the AMF at least temporarily?

In any case, some sort of UberCharger can deal thousands of damage and kill it. DR or not.

The UberCharger probably breaks the "no cheese" rule.

Iron Heart Surge, on the other hand, is cheesy when used in this way, but only in the same way that having an AMF and not having it block your own DR /epic is. I'd allow that. Yay IHS! I think it should actually work!

Frosty
2007-11-28, 02:43 PM
Don't really need an "uber" charger. normal pouncing charger can easily do over 300 damage a round. How much HP does this thing have?

Dausuul
2007-11-28, 02:56 PM
DR15 isn't really that much, take a good high str bonus composite longbow, a quiver of infinate arrows (think its called a quiver of Nariel or something) and a cloak of wings. With those a level 3 pally can do it. Just keep spamming the thing all day with a damage cap in excess of 15 and you can do it eventually. Might need to take a pack lunch with you though. and heres hoping its not near anything important. You'd be rolling once a round for the nat20 that's the only way to get a hit in, then hope you roll high enough to get 16+ damage. Plink, plink, plink, plink, plink, etc.......

...and then it starts lobbing rocks at you. Notice the "thrown object" entry in its attacks.

Craig1f
2007-11-28, 03:03 PM
Could a spell thief sneak-attack the thing and steal its AMF ability?

Edit: Nevermind. That ability is probably supernatural, not extraordinary, and wouldn't work.

GoC
2007-11-28, 03:11 PM
Edit: negating the spells is DM fiating, since it contradicts the rules. If that's the case, I bring PAZUZU PAZUZU PAZUZU!

I've already come up with a definite kill build using Acid Arrow so why bother?

Illiterate Scribe
2007-11-28, 03:14 PM
Ye heavens, GofC, another one? :smallannoyed: :smallamused:

Remember, people, the Initiate of Mystra allows you to ignore AMFs on a caster level check which you should be able to make, as used in the Dweomercheater (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=248239) build.


Can a Warblade use Iron Heart Surge to end the AMF at least temporarily?

With a roar of effort, I shake off the status of not being Pun-Pun!

GoC
2007-11-28, 03:17 PM
Ye heavens, GofC, another one? :smallannoyed: :smallamused:
:smallbiggrin:


Remember, people, the Initiate of Mystra allows you to ignore AMFs on a caster level check which you should be able to make, as used in the Dweomercheater (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=248239) build.
It isn't precisely an AMF it emulates an AMF.

Craig1f
2007-11-28, 03:22 PM
Remember, people, the Initiate of Mystra allows you to ignore AMFs on a caster level check which you should be able to make, as used in the Dweomercheater (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=248239) build.

I was about to point that out in my last post, but then it occurred to me that it still doesn't do you much good. You can't cast spells except for conjuration spells that will have any effect because of the immunity to magic. Being able to cast spells within 100ft doesn't do a whole lot of good, since you can just summon a solid fog 100ft in the air, and the rules will have that fog fall down on the creature.

The main reason to bring down the AMF so that items in your possession do not lose their magical properties, so you can have +6 weapons and sneak up using invisibility, etc.


NEW IDEA
---------------------
A Warlock with Vitriolic blast would do some damage, although it's unclear how that would work in an AMF. The Vitriolic blast is conjured acid, which damages golems, and bypasses spell resistance and anything with immunity to magic. If you get Eldritch Spear, the range is 250ft. But I'm thinking that magic still is responsible for the propelling the blast to its target. So while the acid will successfully do damage within an AMF, it's unclear what effect the AMF would have on the blast following a straight line for 250ft.

This could all be solved with the help of gravity. I'm pretty sure that a warlock could fly above the creature (with Fell Flight), and rain down Vitriolic Blast + Eldritch Spear, doing Xd6 acid damage a round. If you assume that the warlock is sufficiently high level, you can add Retributive Invisibility (basically greater invisibility) for good measure.

Update: Maybe add some horizon goggles for 12000gp to increase your range to 375ft in case he tries to throw something at you. What kind of jump does this thing have?

Anyone see a problem with this tactic? It doesn't actually cost anything, and it would only take a minute or so.

fendrin
2007-11-28, 03:30 PM
One:
If he has an Orb of Annihilation.

Ok, that's a little cheesy.

One: Flying carpet, Improved invisibility, and a few thousand bags of holding crammed full of alchemist's fire, acid, or similar. Each round you simply invert a bag of holding over the colossus and let gravity do it's work. Oh, and make sure you fly not only outside the "AMF", but outside the AMF+the height the colossus can jump. I'm sure that's pretty high.

So basically, anybody with a a lot of GP.

GoC
2007-11-28, 03:38 PM
One:
If he has an Orb of Annihilation.

Ok, that's a little cheesy.

One: Flying carpet, Improved invisibility, and a few thousand bags of holding crammed full of alchemist's fire, acid, or similar. Each round you simply invert a bag of holding over the colossus and let gravity do it's work. Oh, and make sure you fly not only outside the "AMF", but outside the AMF+the height the colossus can jump. I'm sure that's pretty high.

So basically, anybody with a a lot of GP.

Well it'd cost a huge fortune and take ages but it works.
Congradulations you win this thread!:smallbiggrin:
EDIT: What if we give it Harm at will? How will you defeat it then?

Illiterate Scribe
2007-11-28, 03:54 PM
Well it'd cost a huge fortune and take ages but it works.
Congradulations you win this thread!:smallbiggrin:
EDIT: What if we give it Harm at will? How will you defeat it then?

Actually, no. Tempest Stormwind (yes, that one, has ... perfected this method):




I once designed a 'factory' of command-word magic items driven by a speaker-box of Ghost Sound (or Programmed Image, depending on your DM's ruling of how command words could be activated; all that changed was the price). The whole thing fit inside a normal backpack (although it took the use of two portable holes and a support system for them). While you slept, it mass-produced balsa-wood boxes filled with your choice of anything you could make from minor creation (Alchemist's Fire or Black Lotus Extract were my two favorite choices) which were then affected by Shrink Item and loaded inside another box (unshrunk, but due to size changes you can fit about 4000 of the shrunk boxes inside of it). The box was then taken out of the first portable hole holding all this gear and moved to the second, which was full of Quintessence. (I reasoned that the unseen servant, as a nonphysical magical effect, would be able to propel the box through quintessence, but I did design a version that didn't -- it had a similar command-word operated Faucet of Quintessence and a speakerbox controlling the servant to lather the box with the stuff).

Net result? While you slept, bombs of various types and sizes. The smaller ones (25-pounders full of alchemist's fire) could do about a hundred thousand d6 worth of fire damage and you could throw one of these per caster level with a single Telekinesis. The larger ones were a few thousand pounds and required a seige engine or a Hulking Hurler to deploy properly, but were capable of raining devastation of a magnitude not normally seen outside the CO boards.

:smalleek:

JaxGaret
2007-11-28, 03:54 PM
EDIT: What if we give it Harm at will? How will you defeat it then?

You don't, outside of an ubercharger build that can kill it in one shot. There's no way to deal it more than 150 damage a round at range, and close in there's no way to stand toe to toe with it.

Craig1f
2007-11-28, 03:57 PM
Psssh, I can't believe no one's ready my Warlock method. I think it could be done pretty easily, without a bomb factory or a flying carpet.

Illiterate Scribe
2007-11-28, 04:01 PM
Psssh, I can't believe no one's ready my Warlock method. I think it could be done pretty easily, without a bomb factory or a flying carpet.

A warlock on a flying carpet with a bomb factory in his hand haversack?

PHEAR MY REDUNDANCY!

:smalltongue:

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-11-28, 04:24 PM
lets see...wall of ice or force to trap it momentarily (being immune to magic doesn't mean it can bypass a conjured wall)...have a cleric cast earth quake or some wizard/s cast move earth or dig to get a nice pit under the thing...then cast wall of stone over the pit followed by a strong earth to mud...the spells must be cast in the right sequence and before the construct has time to react to the changes...the Earth to mud spell is then released and the mud goes back to being stone that is now encasing the thing...

if you did things right, at least part of the creature is exposed but hopefully unable to attack, or at the least...move...have the wizards cast a grease spell around the creature to prevent it from getting footing or any handhold...it's dex is abysmal so it shouldn't be too hard to keep it down...

Wall of iron should be cast repeatedly and tipped over onto the exposed creature to pin it down...once you get enough weight on it, it will be incapable of moving...then you just need to get a paladin with enough adamantium arrows fired from an epic bow to pepper it to death...all else fails...make sure you have a few wands of grease and light the sucker on fire...keep recasting grease and grab a bag of marshmallows...he may be immune to magic, but it is not immune to non-magical fire. If the golem is trapped and stuck in a blazing inferno...it will die eventually...just be able to resist the fear (even if shaken) and survive the terror effect..it shoul dtake an hour or two to die once on fire if you can keep some good fuel going.

Chronos
2007-11-28, 04:25 PM
Here is where I point out that the Frightful Presence this thing has is too powerful to actually be useable. With a range of a mile, it'll kick in before this thing has any chance of doing anything to you, or even knowing you're there. So you come within a mile of the thing, get scared of it, and retreat for 5d6 rounds. Then you gather your nerve, and try again. Eventually, you'll roll a natural 20 and make your save, and then you're good for the next 24 hours.


Dammit people! +10000 to Hide does NOT mean invisible!!Absolutely not. With invisibility, you're still easily detectable, and all it takes is a single DC 20 spot check, or any of an assortment of low-level spells. The Spot check for a good Hide score is much higher, and it's not negated by any magical means (including this thing's AMF).

Chronos
2007-11-28, 04:32 PM
Oh, some other thoughts: First, you don't need to get your weapon into the AMF. You get a +4 construct-bane bow, and shoot nonmagical adamantium arrows at it from outside the field.

Second, Harm at will won't make too much of a difference: It won't heal 150 damage per Harm; it'll heal 6d10 damage per Harm. Negative energy spells do affect it, but they don't have their normal affect.

And with the Intelligence score of a goldfish, it's going to be really easy to lure this thing into a trap. Maybe just a big pile of wood, which you set on fire somehow? Or a pit trap, covered with a floor that's strong enough to support a human, but not a colossal creature?

Ramos
2007-11-28, 04:40 PM
Oh, comeon! That's easy. One wizard 7/ paladin 3. Fly spell to fly out of range. Ring of Telekinesis. Violent Thrust pretty big rocks to it from 600 ft away until it croaks. Next!

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-11-28, 04:44 PM
ooh...i guess if you wanna be less fancy, you just need a bunch of fighters 17/3 fighter/paladin armed with +4 adamantite construct bane greatswords that have some great bonuses to reliably hit the AC of the thing, spring attack with expiditious retreat, and an array of clerics to cast healing spells at range if possible (spectral hand?). True strike as an 'on use' ability in their weapons would mean they could make full use of power attack...I might recommend mounted combat using lances and ride by attack with mounts that have swift horseshoes...

On average the thing does 30 damage per hit with the club and can't attack more than one person even if they are close together. Using a charging ride by attack would allow the knights to ride by and slam the thing without fear of attack of opportunity and to ride out clear while getting automatic double damage from a charge.

A Wizard would do well to use telekenisis to dump as many flasks of oil as possible on the thing followed by pyrotechnics...bonfire is good...

forget trying to not get hit I say...it is too strong to avoid it...just make sure that you have potions or can visit a cleric as you run around...

I am thinking 1 wizard, 3 clerics, and 6-10 paladin/fighters with admant/bane weapons to do close combat....fortified armor would be a big help to ensure that there are no instant kills. Rings of blink, or ways to go etherial might be useful as well in case someone finds themselves too close for comfort and stomped.

Emperor Tippy
2007-11-28, 05:30 PM
Let's see.

First off the Flesh Colossus doesn't have an AMF field. The other 2 types of Colossus do but the Flesh version doesn't.

The Frightful Presence isn't really a problem. Just eat a Hero's Feast before the battle, at level 20 thats all you really should be eating in the first place anyways. Mind Blank also gives you immunity.

If you stay 300 feet or more away from the FC then its Horrific Appearance likewise doesn't matter.

But for real fun.

Level 20 wizard. Shapechange into a 24 HD Shadesteel Golem (page 72, MM3). You gain a 30 foot fly speed (perfect maneuverability) and gain DR 10/admantium and magic but those aren't the real fun parts. Shapechange changes your type to that of whatever form you assume. The Construct Type gives:
-Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (dealing with the frightful presence)
-Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.
-Immunity to any effects that require a fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless)

That means that my wizard is immune to the Flesh Colossus's Frightful Presence, Horrific Appearance, and Stench.

Now if I cast a Greater Shadow Evocation Continual Flame on myself then I am also permanently hasted and get Fast Healing 8.

Now I get a Cube of Force and activate its second setting, reducing my movement speed to 20 feet and keeping out all nonliving matter (which includes the Flesh Colossus). So I now have complete immunity to the Flesh Colossus.

Now I buy around 100 Wands of Acid Splash.

The FC's magic immunity does nothing to protect him from the Acid Splash's because they are non magical when they hit (instantaneous conjurations).

So it takes 1 level 20 wizard to win.

EDIT: Oh and giving it Harm doesn't do anythign to effect my build.

lord_khaine
2007-11-28, 05:37 PM
all in all this thing is pretty easy to kill, the question is who can kill at the lowest level and still remain within WBL?

personaly my bet is at the warlock with eldrich spear and vitrilolich blast.

and another question, who can kill it the fastest?

Renegade Paladin
2007-11-28, 05:38 PM
Now if I cast a Greater Shadow Evocation Continual Flame on myself then I am also permanently hasted and get Fast Healing 8.
Explain.

(Ten characters)

Sstoopidtallkid
2007-11-28, 05:41 PM
The wizard kills it fastest. Remember the PaO idea using antimatter?

Yeah, do that next to the flesh colossus if it doesn't get an AMF. Or as close as possible if it does. Either way, it's dead.

Frosty
2007-11-28, 05:44 PM
That particular golem probably gains fast healing when affected by a fire spell or something.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-28, 05:45 PM
Methinks the lowest kill would be either the warlock or my orb wizzo. Now, fastest....I think the monster posted by Scribe, and made by Stormwind.

Emperor Tippy
2007-11-28, 05:47 PM
Explain.

(Ten characters)


If a shadesteel golem is targeted by or within the area of a spell with the darkness or shadow descriptor, the golem is healed of 1 point of damage per level of the spell.
Greater Shadow Evocation has the shadow descriptor. If you use it to cast continual flame you get a permanent duration spell with the shadow descriptor. So long as the golem remains inside the area of the spell (which travels with him) he gets fast healing equal to the level of the spell. GSE is an 8th level spell.


A magical effect that has the light descriptor (such as continual flame) causes the golem to speed up as if affected by the spell haste for 2d4 rounds.
Now the GSE Continual Flame also has the light descriptor and thus hastes me for 2d4 rounds. But whenever the haste wears off it gets renewed as I am under a magical effect that has the light descriptor.


Shadesteel Golems are possible the best all around form to assume when shapechanged. Fly speed with perfect maneuverability, almost continual concealment (so long as its not full daylight), immunity to any magic that allows spell resistance, DR, etc.

Kyace
2007-11-28, 05:50 PM
Now if I cast a Greater Shadow Evocation Continual Flame on myself then I am also permanently hasted and get Fast Healing 8.

Where are you getting 'permanently'? Being the target of a light speed speeds up the golem for 2d4 rounds. Being the target of a darkness or shadow spell of 8th level heals 8 HP, once. Continual Flame is a 'target' spell, not an area effect spell.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-28, 05:52 PM
He's ninja'd you. He casts shadow continual flame on himself.

Seraph
2007-11-28, 05:54 PM
if all 12 characters had maxed out leadership, would they have enough people for a suitably damaging peasant railgun?

martyboy74
2007-11-28, 05:54 PM
The target is you (or a rock that you tape onto your back, or your spell component pouch, etc.).

Kyace
2007-11-28, 05:55 PM
The shadesteel golem gives continual flame as an example spell that grants 2d4 rounds of haste. Therefore it gives haste once for 2d4 rounds.

Talanic
2007-11-28, 06:04 PM
Gotta agree here. Looks to me like the Shadesteel Golem only gains those effects once per casting of Continual Flame, not every single round that the spell endures.

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-11-28, 06:14 PM
Let's see.

First off the Flesh Colossus doesn't have an AMF field. The other 2 types of Colossus do but the Flesh version doesn't.

The Frightful Presence isn't really a problem. Just eat a Hero's Feast before the battle, at level 20 thats all you really should be eating in the first place anyways. Mind Blank also gives you immunity.

If you stay 300 feet or more away from the FC then its Horrific Appearance likewise doesn't matter.

But for real fun.

Level 20 wizard. Shapechange into a 24 HD Shadesteel Golem (page 72, MM3). You gain a 30 foot fly speed (perfect maneuverability) and gain DR 10/admantium and magic but those aren't the real fun parts. Shapechange changes your type to that of whatever form you assume. The Construct Type gives:
-Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (dealing with the frightful presence)
-Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.
-Immunity to any effects that require a fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless)

That means that my wizard is immune to the Flesh Colossus's Frightful Presence, Horrific Appearance, and Stench.

Now if I cast a Greater Shadow Evocation Continual Flame on myself then I am also permanently hasted and get Fast Healing 8.

Now I get a Cube of Force and activate its second setting, reducing my movement speed to 20 feet and keeping out all nonliving matter (which includes the Flesh Colossus). So I now have complete immunity to the Flesh Colossus.

Now I buy around 100 Wands of Acid Splash.

The FC's magic immunity does nothing to protect him from the Acid Splash's because they are non magical when they hit (instantaneous conjurations).

So it takes 1 level 20 wizard to win.

EDIT: Oh and giving it Harm doesn't do anythign to effect my build.

very nice...it will still be throwing things at you however...

Jack_Simth
2007-11-28, 06:19 PM
Straight Cleric, easy.

Necklace of Adaptation - goodbye Stench.
Hero's Feast - goodbye Fear.
Carpet of Flying (or Wings of Flying, or even Air Walk) - Nya, Nya, can't hit me (well, if you stay more than 50 feet away at all times, which is the limit for improvised thrown weapons; shouldn't be hard at all)
+4 Bane(Construct) Bow and adamantine arrows (+6 effective when striking cosntructs - which makes it penetrate Epic DR). Can potentially cut costs by making it a +1 Bane(construct) bow and casting Greater Magic Weapon on the arrows (for a total of +7, after the Bane effect) depending on DM ruling. Also works with a +4 Bow and +1 Bane(Construct) Adamantine arrows.

The items aren't even that expensive, really. This could be done at a much lower level.

AC's annoyingly high for anything below 20th level, though.

Emperor Tippy
2007-11-28, 07:07 PM
very nice...it will still be throwing things at you however...

Whatever it throws cant' get throw teh shield provided by the cube of force.

Fuzzy_Juan
2007-11-28, 07:23 PM
now for major fun...a bag of holding and a portable hole...send the stupid thing through a rift...it would be immune to being transported, but perhaps not immune to falling through a tear in the fabric of reality...it might not be dead, but it isn't going to be able to get back on it's own.

So...any character with a bag of holding gets close and hoves the portable hole into the bag...this sucks anything within 10' of the newly formed gate through into the astral plane...the character then activates a plane shift magic item and comes right back since placing an item into a bag doesn't really count as an action.

A first level character with the proper equipment and buffed to be immune to fear could do it...

'suprise round'...activate dimension door item while holding portable hold and bag of holding, take a 5 foot step through the door at the start of the combat and take a free action to place te hole in the bag...get sucked into the void with your friend...activate an item that will transport you back.

congratulations...you just didn't level because the CR is WAY too high for you...or you are now 15th...one of the two...:smallbiggrin:

Sstoopidtallkid
2007-11-28, 07:28 PM
No, you went up one level. You are now a commoner 1, monk 1.

Jack_Simth
2007-11-28, 07:33 PM
congratulations...you just didn't level because the CR is WAY too high for you...or you are now 15th...one of the two...:smallbiggrin:
Actually, even if you get XP from it (unlikely; the tables put a dash there) you're not jumping to 15th. In fact, you're not even 3rd (if you started at first). See, there's a little-known rule that explicitly states you can't gain more than one level at a time. Any excess XP beyond that which would take you to 1 XP short of two more levels is simply lost.

Kyace
2007-11-28, 07:49 PM
Whatever it throws cant' get throw teh shield provided by the cube of force.
Nonsense, arm the cat crossbow. :P

Chronos
2007-11-28, 08:09 PM
EDIT: Oh and giving it Harm doesn't do anythign to effect my build.I'm pretty sure that 6d10 healing a turn can outpace your acid splashes' 1d3 a turn. Of course, you could just use orbs instead of splashes.

Emperor Tippy
2007-11-28, 08:22 PM
Oh, you meant to heal himself.

Yeah that would be annoying.

Craig1f
2007-11-29, 01:14 PM
Methinks the lowest kill would be either the warlock or my orb wizzo. Now, fastest....I think the monster posted by Scribe, and made by Stormwind.

A level 11 Warlock with a Greater Chausable of Fell Power could do 8d6 damage a round, plus 4d6 DOT acid damage every round after the 2nd. If you rule that acid damage doesn't stack, then you're doing 8d6+2d6 acid damage a round, otherwise it's 8d6+4d6. That's 35 damage (or 42) per round on average.

Sounds good to me.