Yakk
2022-07-29, 09:43 AM
The BM and the Champion both have non-damage abilities. To keep things simple, I'm going to ignore them (I'd consider the BM's non-combat to be as good or better than the Champion's, but that isn't relevant as I'm ignoring them).
Looking only at damage dealing abilities, the Champion from 3-9 has 19-20 crit range. At 10-14 they have a 2nd fighting style (which can sometimes be leveraged for more damage, but usually ends up being interception or defensive or similar). And from 15+ they have 18-20 crit range.
The BM, meanwhile, has 4d8 short-rest superiority dice from 3-6, 5d8 from 7-9, 5d10 from 10-14, and 6d10 from 15-17, and 6d12 from 18+.
A very simple BM has precision strike, and at least 1 maneuver that lets them add +[SD] damage to a hit. They then use the +[SD] only on crits, and use precision strike only when they miss by 1 (guaranteed to turn a miss into a hit).
1 in 20 attacks crit, and deal +2[SD] damage. 1 in 20 attacks miss by 1, and deal +[W]+Str damage. The BM can do this up to 4+ times per short rest.
Assuming they are using a greatsword (this gives the Champion the best situation) and have GWF style, [W] average 8 and 1/3 damage.
Comparing at level 3, level 5, 11 and 17 (start of each tier, plus first level of subclass), we get:
Champion 3: +0.42 DPR
Champion 5: +0.85 DPR
Champion 11: +1.25 DPR
Champion 17: +2.5 DPR
BM 3: +1.02 DPR (up to 40 rounds between short rests)
BM 5: +2.13 DPR (up to 20 rounds between short rests)
BM 11: +3.65 DPR (up to 16 rounds between short rests)
BM 17: +3.65 DPR (up to 20 rounds between short rests)
The endurance of the BM's superiority dice in this really really conservative spending situation is more than long enough for almost every situation. And, before level 17, the amount of time it would take for the Champion to catch up even if the fights where really long is pretty crazy; 100 rounds at level 3, 50 rounds at level 5, 47 rounds at level 11, 29 rounds at level 17 (between short rests for the Champion to match this very conservative BM's damage).
BM can do better than this simple model; using Precision on attacks that miss by 2 or 3 is the easiest thing to do. And the BM is imposing saves for annoying conditions like "prone" with the above, which I utterly ignored.
What would be needed to close this gap most of the way? Well, we could just subtract.
BM-Champ 3: 0.6 DPR
BM-Champ 5: 1.3 DPR, or 0.6 per attack
BM-Champ 11: 2.4 DPR, or 0.8 per attack
BM-Champ 17: 1.2 DPR, or 0.4 per attack
You'll note that the gap closes in T4 -- the 18-20 crit range helps a lot.
If we set 10 rounds between short rests, the gap is:
L3: 6 damage per short rest
L5: 13 damage per short rest
L11: 24 damage per short rest
L17: 12 damage per short rest
I want to keep this multiclass friendly (ie, not be OP as a 3 level dip into champion). So while extending the crit range to 18-20 at level 3 is tempting, it ends up delivering more for a 3 level dip in T2/3/4 for an other class than for a pure-fighter Champion.
...
A chance to swing a 2HS is "worth" about 7-9 damage.
So
Improved Second Wind: Starting at level 3, a Champion make a weapon attack when they use their second wind. If they qualify for the two-weapon fighting bonus action, they may make it as well.
The gap per short rest then becomes:
L3: -1 damage per short rest
L5: 5 damage per short rest
L11: 15 damage per short rest
L17: 3 damage per short rest
Third Wind: Starting at level 7, a Champion can use Second Wind twice between short or long rests instead of once.
The gap per short rest then becomes:
L3: -1 damage per short rest
L5: 5 damage per short rest
L11: 6 damage per short rest
L17: -6 damage per short rest
This won't match an optimized BM, but will make the Champion feel beefier. And the extra attack on a second wind is nicely dramatic.
The complexity of this is low; you just have to remember to swing when you use your second wind. It is tied to an ability you already have to remember. It is ok for multiclassing, but not crazy; it uses up the bonus action (which many optimized builds already have a use for).
Now, one downside is that the Champion in 10 rounds competes with a BM with 20+ rounds of endurance. The BM can less efficiently just burn dice faster and outpace the Champion again.
But if I scale up the Champion's per-SR damage, it might be too much for shorter days.
Hmm. Thoughts? Maybe ... recover Second Wind on a critical? That gets crazy in T4.
Looking only at damage dealing abilities, the Champion from 3-9 has 19-20 crit range. At 10-14 they have a 2nd fighting style (which can sometimes be leveraged for more damage, but usually ends up being interception or defensive or similar). And from 15+ they have 18-20 crit range.
The BM, meanwhile, has 4d8 short-rest superiority dice from 3-6, 5d8 from 7-9, 5d10 from 10-14, and 6d10 from 15-17, and 6d12 from 18+.
A very simple BM has precision strike, and at least 1 maneuver that lets them add +[SD] damage to a hit. They then use the +[SD] only on crits, and use precision strike only when they miss by 1 (guaranteed to turn a miss into a hit).
1 in 20 attacks crit, and deal +2[SD] damage. 1 in 20 attacks miss by 1, and deal +[W]+Str damage. The BM can do this up to 4+ times per short rest.
Assuming they are using a greatsword (this gives the Champion the best situation) and have GWF style, [W] average 8 and 1/3 damage.
Comparing at level 3, level 5, 11 and 17 (start of each tier, plus first level of subclass), we get:
Champion 3: +0.42 DPR
Champion 5: +0.85 DPR
Champion 11: +1.25 DPR
Champion 17: +2.5 DPR
BM 3: +1.02 DPR (up to 40 rounds between short rests)
BM 5: +2.13 DPR (up to 20 rounds between short rests)
BM 11: +3.65 DPR (up to 16 rounds between short rests)
BM 17: +3.65 DPR (up to 20 rounds between short rests)
The endurance of the BM's superiority dice in this really really conservative spending situation is more than long enough for almost every situation. And, before level 17, the amount of time it would take for the Champion to catch up even if the fights where really long is pretty crazy; 100 rounds at level 3, 50 rounds at level 5, 47 rounds at level 11, 29 rounds at level 17 (between short rests for the Champion to match this very conservative BM's damage).
BM can do better than this simple model; using Precision on attacks that miss by 2 or 3 is the easiest thing to do. And the BM is imposing saves for annoying conditions like "prone" with the above, which I utterly ignored.
What would be needed to close this gap most of the way? Well, we could just subtract.
BM-Champ 3: 0.6 DPR
BM-Champ 5: 1.3 DPR, or 0.6 per attack
BM-Champ 11: 2.4 DPR, or 0.8 per attack
BM-Champ 17: 1.2 DPR, or 0.4 per attack
You'll note that the gap closes in T4 -- the 18-20 crit range helps a lot.
If we set 10 rounds between short rests, the gap is:
L3: 6 damage per short rest
L5: 13 damage per short rest
L11: 24 damage per short rest
L17: 12 damage per short rest
I want to keep this multiclass friendly (ie, not be OP as a 3 level dip into champion). So while extending the crit range to 18-20 at level 3 is tempting, it ends up delivering more for a 3 level dip in T2/3/4 for an other class than for a pure-fighter Champion.
...
A chance to swing a 2HS is "worth" about 7-9 damage.
So
Improved Second Wind: Starting at level 3, a Champion make a weapon attack when they use their second wind. If they qualify for the two-weapon fighting bonus action, they may make it as well.
The gap per short rest then becomes:
L3: -1 damage per short rest
L5: 5 damage per short rest
L11: 15 damage per short rest
L17: 3 damage per short rest
Third Wind: Starting at level 7, a Champion can use Second Wind twice between short or long rests instead of once.
The gap per short rest then becomes:
L3: -1 damage per short rest
L5: 5 damage per short rest
L11: 6 damage per short rest
L17: -6 damage per short rest
This won't match an optimized BM, but will make the Champion feel beefier. And the extra attack on a second wind is nicely dramatic.
The complexity of this is low; you just have to remember to swing when you use your second wind. It is tied to an ability you already have to remember. It is ok for multiclassing, but not crazy; it uses up the bonus action (which many optimized builds already have a use for).
Now, one downside is that the Champion in 10 rounds competes with a BM with 20+ rounds of endurance. The BM can less efficiently just burn dice faster and outpace the Champion again.
But if I scale up the Champion's per-SR damage, it might be too much for shorter days.
Hmm. Thoughts? Maybe ... recover Second Wind on a critical? That gets crazy in T4.