Giving something for a wasted extra attack optional rule

[Spacehamster]

So always when you propose a build that has more than 4 levels multiclass into an “extra attack class/subclass” people point out the waste, so here is just a quick brainstorm of what the extra attack feature could be replaced with depending on which class you get it from:
Barbarian: 1 extra rage per long rest
Paladin: 1 free lvl 1 spell divine smite
Ranger: expertise in a skill from ranger skill list
Valor/swords: 1 skill or 1 extra bardic dice
Monk: 2 extra ki points
Fighter: (least likely and brain can’t come up with anything, help plx?!)
Bladesinger: 1 extra use of blade song per long rest

Thoughts?

[LibraryOgre]

So always when you propose a build that has more than 4 levels multiclass into an “extra attack class/subclass” people point out the waste, so here is just a quick brainstorm of what the extra attack feature could be replaced with depending on which class you get it from:
Barbarian: 1 extra rage per long rest
Ranger: expertise in a skill from ranger skill list
Valor/swords: 1 skill or 1 extra bardic dice
Monk: 2 extra ki points
Fighter: (least likely and brain can’t come up with anything, help plx?!)
Bladesinger: 1 extra use of blade song per long rest

Thoughts?

I would say nothing for the fighter; they have the Extra Attack feature in spades. I would, instead, say that they can add the levels of all Extra Attack granting classes to their own, for the purpose of number of attacks.

Thus, a 5/6 Fighter/Paladin would attack 3 times per Attack Action, like a 11th level fighter. I am on the fence whether the class should have achieved the Extra Attack feature to get this benefit... should a 1/10 fighter paladin be able to do it? A 5/3/3 Fighter/Paladin/Monk?

[Spacehamster]

I would say nothing for the fighter; they have the Extra Attack feature in spades. I would, instead, say that they can add the levels of all Extra Attack granting classes to their own, for the purpose of number of attacks.

Thus, a 5/6 Fighter/Paladin would attack 3 times per Attack Action, like a 11th level fighter. I am on the fence whether the class should have achieved the Extra Attack feature to get this benefit... should a 1/10 fighter paladin be able to do it? A 5/3/3 Fighter/Paladin/Monk?

Would be to strong and would remove the need to ever take more than 5 levels fighter, and yes with this idea I meant you would have to already have extra attack from a class and then when you get it a 2nd time and waste it you would instead get one of the perks here.

I mean 5 fighter, 5 ranger, 5 barb 5 Paladin would be 4 attacks(5 on first round with gloomsralker) rage, smite and 3 fighting styles, would hands down beat a fighter 20 even when counting in less feats & mad as hell I would think.

[olskool]

So always when you propose a build that has more than 4 levels multiclass into an “extra attack class/subclass” people point out the waste, so here is just a quick brainstorm of what the extra attack feature could be replaced with depending on which class you get it from:
Barbarian: 1 extra rage per long rest
Paladin: 1 free lvl 1 spell divine smite
Ranger: expertise in a skill from ranger skill list
Valor/swords: 1 skill or 1 extra bardic dice
Monk: 2 extra ki points
Fighter: (least likely and brain can’t come up with anything, help plx?!)
Bladesinger: 1 extra use of blade song per long rest

Thoughts?

Sadly, I can't tell you if this is a good idea or not. I go "old school" on multiclassing and DO NOT allow "Level dipping" into various classes. I picture a given Class as a type of "college major" where you are working on a degree. Thus, multiclassing is simultaneously working on two different degrees. IF you choose to multiclass, you will pick a second class and split your EXP between the two classes. The extra versatility of being multi-classed is offset by the fact that you will be at a lower level than your single-classed companions. You can even do a triple-classed character, but then EXP is divided between THREE Classes and your progression will be at a snail's pace!

[Spacehamster]

Sadly, I can't tell you if this is a good idea or not. I go "old school" on multiclassing and DO NOT allow "Level dipping" into various classes. I picture a given Class as a type of "college major" where you are working on a degree. Thus, multiclassing is simultaneously working on two different degrees. IF you choose to multiclass, you will pick a second class and split your EXP between the two classes. The extra versatility of being multi-classed is offset by the fact that you will be at a lower level than your single-classed companions. You can even do a triple-classed character, but then EXP is divided between THREE Classes and your progression will be at a snail's pace!

Take it nobody multiclasses then cause that will be heavily gimping with mc being quite heavy a price to pay anyways with delay of main class features? 🤔

[Yakk]

So always when you propose a build that has more than 4 levels multiclass into an “extra attack class/subclass” people point out the waste, so here is just a quick brainstorm of what the extra attack feature could be replaced with depending on which class you get it from:
Barbarian: 1 extra rage per long rest
Paladin: 1 free lvl 1 spell divine smite
Ranger: expertise in a skill from ranger skill list
Valor/swords: 1 skill or 1 extra bardic dice
Monk: 2 extra ki points
Fighter: (least likely and brain can’t come up with anything, help plx?!)
Bladesinger: 1 extra use of blade song per long rest

Thoughts?

So I looked at MCing suboptimal builds, and decided to do something about it.

Multiclassing
Extra Attack: Classes which gain Extra Attack at level 5 multiclass in a special way.
Levels sum to 5+, but none have given Extra Attack: You lose 1 level of features in 1 class, and gain Extra Attack.
You have Extra Attack at level 5 from two or more classes: You gain 1 level of features or every "extra" Extra Attack in the redundant extra attack classes.
Gain extra attack(2) as a subclass feature while also having Extra Attack at level 5: gain 1 level of features in the Extra Attack(2) at level 5 classes.

This extra level of features does not include spellcasting progression.

Basically you "bump" up and get the next level of features. This doesn't really cause problems to me, because EA was an insanely better feature than almost any other. It does open up builds like Barbarian 9/Fighter 11 to not have a gaping hole of pain in the middle.

The ability to combine levels means that it isn't stupid to MC EA(2) classes before level 5; this means you can be Paladin 1/Barbarian 1/Paladin 3, Barbarian 2 without feeling you are doing something stupid.

---

I also did something to deal with spellcasting, which doesn't MC well I find:

Spellcasting and Pact Magic: For the purpose of spells known/prepared and max spell level you can learn, add 1/3 of all other class levels to your level. This bonus cannot more than double your class level.

Pact Magic:
Your major arcana count as spells you know. You can cast them 1/day without expending a slot if you have the feature, but not if you gained it through the previous rule.

[Segev]

I had a similar thought about there being alternatives for those who would wind up with "Dead" levels due to layering Extra Attack.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?633655-Optional-Alternate-Features-for-Extra-Attack

[Kane0]

If you would get extra attack but already have it (eg barb5/pally5) then you get an ASI instead.

[nickl_2000]

If you would get extra attack but already have it (eg barb5/pally5) then you get an ASI instead.

This is what I have heard from a lot of people before and they swore by it at their table.

[Segev]

This is what I have heard from a lot of people before and they swore by it at their table.

It would be pretty potent, especially since you theoretically just got a level 4 one right beforehand.

[JNAProductions]

If you would get extra attack but already have it (eg barb5/pally5) then you get an ASI instead.

If this came up, I'd probably give half an ASI. So +1 to one stat, or a half feat without the ability boost.

Then again, I also run pretty generous PC creation rules, oftentimes with gestalt, so I don't think it's needed really for my tables.

[animorte]

Ignore the additional extra attack and just offer a free Fighting Style instead.

[Old Harry MTX]

I was thinking of this "problem" too, my idea was to replace the Extra Attack rules in multiclassing with something like:

If you gain the Extra Attack class feature from more than one class, the second time you instead gain the Additional Attack feature.

Additional Attack

You can attack one more time whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. You can use this feature one time between short rest.

Optional - When you reach 11th level, you gain a second Additional Attack, and a third one when you reach 17 level. You can't however make more than one Additional Attack in a single Attack action.

[olskool]

Take it nobody multiclasses then cause that will be heavily gimping with mc being quite heavy a price to pay anyways with delay of main class features? 🤔

Quite to the contrary. A lot of players do. The lower level is offset by the flexibility of having the powers of two or more classes. Dipping Levels is just a method of scratching a mix-maxer's lust for power.

[Segev]

Quite to the contrary. A lot of players do. The lower level is offset by the flexibility of having the powers of two or more classes. Dipping Levels is just a method of scratching a mix-maxer's lust for power.

Or for building a character with a suite of abilities that matches a concept. Or both. Multiclass characters are not inheRently stronger than single classed ones.