Harpoons and Returning Weapon Enchant Interaction

[pabelfly]

Was interested in how the Returning Weapon enchant interacts with a harpoon weapon

A harpoon is a ranged exotic weapon can lodge in an opponent if the target fails a reflex save of DC 10 + the damage inflicted. A harpooned creature can pull a harpoon from themselves if they have two free hands and take a full round to remove the harpoon, and if they do, they take damage again equal to the initial damage caused by the harpoon.

Returning weapon enchants apply to thrown weapons - presumably a harpoon would fit into this - and the weapon flies through the air back to the thrower.

I would presume that a returning harpoon damages the opponent when it lodges (presuming a failed reflex save) and does damage again coming back out, but I'd be interested in hearing other's opinions on how this would work.

[Jervis]

Strict raw the harpoon only damages them if they remove it. There are two ways I can see this working. The returning enchantment has a effect which takes place after the weapon is lodged so it presumably takes precedence.

A: The weapon returns with the weapon still lodged in the creature, pulling the creature with it

B: The weapon dislodges dealing no damage and returns to you.

I would personally rule the prior because they do get a save and it’s funnier that way.

[pabelfly]

Strict raw the harpoon only damages them if they remove it. There are two ways I can see this working. The returning enchantment has a effect which takes place after the weapon is lodged so it presumably takes precedence.

A: The weapon returns with the weapon still lodged in the creature, pulling the creature with it

B: The weapon dislodges dealing no damage and returns to you.

I would personally rule the prior because they do get a save and it’s funnier that way.

I like the way you think. If I run a harpooner with this enchant (as a DM) I'll definitely consider your first idea.

[Saintheart]

In practical terms, I don't think there's a lot of harm in ruling that it tears out and returns though it seems pretty clear nobody thought about how the returning property would work with this weapon.

I'd look more at what your party's planning to do with it. If you allow it to work like that - doing damage once and then doing the same damage again as it rips out - then all you're really doing is justifying the player taking an exotic weapon proficiency feat and paying for a +2 weapon which can only do double damage once per round. Remember, a returning weapon only returns to you on the beginning of your next turn, it doesn't fly back to you for another iterative throw that same round. Which means you're then unarmed for the rest of the round, i.e. open to AoOs at least.

So you've got a weapon that basically only has an advantage up to level 6, at which point the martials can get two attacks per round and thus equal the harpoon's damage in this way.

If your players then want to spend a lot of money on two harpoons done the same way and Quick Draw, they're still behind a TWF fighter in the number of attacks they get per round.

IF your players have got some kind of fleshgrinding enhancement or critfishing build in mind, that might change it. But on its own this thing just does double damage, isn't combinable with an ubercharger build, and given it's a returning weapon loses out the moment your players have two attacks per round.

[pabelfly]

In practical terms, I don't think there's a lot of harm in ruling that it tears out and returns though it seems pretty clear nobody thought about how the returning property would work with this weapon.

I'd look more at what your party's planning to do with it. If you allow it to work like that - doing damage once and then doing the same damage again as it rips out - then all you're really doing is justifying the player taking an exotic weapon proficiency feat and paying for a +2 weapon which can only do double damage once per round. Remember, a returning weapon only returns to you on the beginning of your next turn, it doesn't fly back to you for another iterative throw that same round. Which means you're then unarmed for the rest of the round, i.e. open to AoOs at least.

So you've got a weapon that basically only has an advantage up to level 6, at which point the martials can get two attacks per round and thus equal the harpoon's damage in this way.

If your players then want to spend a lot of money on two harpoons done the same way and Quick Draw, they're still behind a TWF fighter in the number of attacks they get per round.

IF your players have got some kind of fleshgrinding enhancement or critfishing build in mind, that might change it. But on its own this thing just does double damage, isn't combinable with an ubercharger build, and given it's a returning weapon loses out the moment your players have two attacks per round.

Fair enough, it's not as OP as I had originally thought it to be.

[Troacctid]

I would rule that the harpoon simply does not return. In my mind, it's the same as if you caught a returning weapon with Snatch Arrows, except here, instead of catching it with your hands, you're catching it with your whole torso.

[Batcathat]

I would probably rule either the harpoon doing damage again or that it pulls the victim towards the thrower (perhaps depending on the size of the victim?). Those options seem to make the most sense and as noted it probably wouldn't be very OP.

[loky1109]

Returning harpoon to your hands doesn't mean pulling harpoon from the enemy. It's simultaneously in your hands and in enemi's body.

[Seerow]

I agree with Troacctid that I would expect it doesn't actually work, but that's the least fun option. And as has been pointed out giving an extra benefit isn't going to break anything for someone using a niche exotic weapon with a weak property.


I would probably rule either the harpoon doing damage again or that it pulls the victim towards the thrower (perhaps depending on the size of the victim?). Those options seem to make the most sense and as noted it probably wouldn't be very OP.

So I'd go with this, but instead of being based on victim size, I'd do a str check. Str+size of thrower vs Str+size of the target. If the thrower wins, the target gets pulled to them. If the target wins, the weapon rips free but they manage to maintain their position. Possibly give the target the option to voluntarily lose this check and be pulled along to avoid the bonus damage.

[ShurikVch]

A: The weapon returns with the weapon still lodged in the creature, pulling the creature with it

Mortal Kombat Scorpion?

https://64.media.tumblr.com/44e2dc49d80325526b666ed5a12ffb9f/tumblr_inline_p87prgeZyz1r3nvvr_500.gifv