Faster Land Travel

[mehs]

My party is going to be repeatedly travelling the road between two cities as well as some non paved wilderness. I can delegate about 10k for a permanent magic item solution. Previously We did cl 8 phantom steeds, but party now includes a leopard that can't ride horses. Basic plan is just get a wagon and attach the phantom steed to that when we are next in a city. Anyone have any plans better than 80 ft/round? we have 3rd level shaman and wizard spells, a summoner, and some sort of ranger for spell casting support.

[Kurald Galain]

Sure. Cast Carry Companion on the leopard, then use phantom steeds.

That, or scrolls of Teleport likely fit within your budget.

[mehs]

Teleport wouldn't work, carry companion probably would. Though if there is still any ways to get a travel land speed faster than 80 rounds, would like to hear it.

[Melcar]

Teleport wouldn't work…

Why no teleportation?

[Jack_Simth]

Why no teleportation?

I'm guessing "repeatedly" is the problem. Boots would do it, but are out of budget. Scrolls could work once or twice, but on the 10th or 100th time, not so much.

[Melcar]

I'm guessing "repeatedly" is the problem. Boots would do it, but are out of budget. Scrolls could work once or twice, but on the 10th or 100th time, not so much.

Ok, how about overland flight? Would that work?

Or possible do something a litte more creative and develop/research a costum spell? Thats a neat way of of putting one's mark on the lore in-game!

[ciopo]

I like the spell "winds at back" a lot but I don't know if it exists in pathfinder, too

[Jack_Simth]

Ok, how about overland flight? Would that work?

Or possible do something a litte more creative and develop/research a costum spell? Thats a neat way of of putting one's mark on the lore in-game!

Overland Flight has a problem: It's a 5th level spell. Scrolls are one-offs. Also, it's just 40 feet/round, with a hustle to bring that to 80, but from the OP:

My party is going to be repeatedly travelling the road between two cities as well as some non paved wilderness. I can delegate about 10k for a permanent magic item solution. Previously We did cl 8 phantom steeds, but party now includes a leopard that can't ride horses. Basic plan is just get a wagon and attach the phantom steed to that when we are next in a city. Anyone have any plans better than 80 ft/round? we have 3rd level shaman and wizard spells, a summoner, and some sort of ranger for spell casting support.
(Emphasis added)

5th level spells are out of reach, it needs to be repeatedly, and the budget is 10k.

Constructs might work. A Light Horse (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/horse/horse/) has a move of 50, and Waxwork Creature (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/sentient-waxwork-cr-0/) of one would have a market price of just 2k. As constructs, they can run forever (although they don't have the run feat), which would put them at 200 feet/round for 2k per party member - which would fit the budget for up to 5 party members. A Hippogriff (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/hippogriff) as a base creature would be better (fly 100, so 400 ft/round running), but has 3 HD (3k each, so 3 party members for 9k).

A Bronze Griffin or an Ebony Fly could fit the bill (either is 10k market), but those are good for maybe one or two party members, and cost the entire budget.

Edit: Although that Hippogriff, with a fly 100 and running constantly (construct, so no fatigue) gets 400 feet per round. Which can get there and back twice in less time than the current solution, so three of them might do just fine as you only need three trips each way to get four folks on three mounts. Or if someone's light (e.g., halfling), doubling up wouldn't be a problem.

[Seerow]

Overland Flight has a problem: It's a 5th level spell. Scrolls are one-offs. Also, it's just 40 feet/round, with a hustle to bring that to 80, but from the OP:

(Emphasis added)

5th level spells are out of reach, it needs to be repeatedly, and the budget is 10k.

Constructs might work. A Light Horse (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/horse/horse/) has a move of 50, and Waxwork Creature (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/sentient-waxwork-cr-0/) of one would have a market price of just 2k. As constructs, they can run forever (although they don't have the run feat), which would put them at 200 feet/round for 2k per party member - which would fit the budget for up to 5 party members. A Hippogriff (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/hippogriff) as a base creature would be better (fly 100, so 400 ft/round running), but has 3 HD (3k each, so 3 party members for 9k).

A Bronze Griffin or an Ebony Fly could fit the bill (either is 10k market), but those are good for maybe one or two party members, and cost the entire budget.

Are there any options to make a carriage/cart levitate so it can then be pulled by some waxwork hippogriffs? two should be good enough to pull a cart with the full party, leaving 6k gold for finding a way to get the cart to hover so pulling it along in flight is feasible.

[spectralphoenix]

A Roc costs 7,200 gp. A howdah is normally sized for Huge creatures, costs 500gp, and is 10 ft by 10 ft. I don't see stats for a Gargantuan option, but by inference you could probably get a 20 by 20 howdah for four times the price. The Roc still travels at 80 ft, but you'd probably be faster in practice since you don't have to worry about rivers or terrain or things. You could also rest while in flight, since only one person needs to control the bird, or maybe even have enough room to do magic item creation or the like. And flying in on a giant bird-mounted hut has to be worth some style points!

[Jack_Simth]

Are there any options to make a carriage/cart levitate so it can then be pulled by some waxwork hippogriffs? two should be good enough to pull a cart with the full party, leaving 6k gold for finding a way to get the cart to hover so pulling it along in flight is feasible.

Math problem: The Hippogrphys cost 3k each, two would be 6k, leaving 4k.

That said: I don't know of a good RAW answer to that. Homebrew is of course up to the DM. But if one or two characters are particularly light, you can just double up and go with three of the beasts.

Or maybe a Huge flying creature? Huge Air Elemental has Fly 100, and 10 hit dice... but it'd be hard to justify a wax sculpture of it flying in an AMF.


Let's see... a Giant Owl (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/giant-owl/) is Huge with Fly 60 and just 6 hit dice (6k). Running full out would get 240 ft/round. and it could conceivably carry an entire party, although you might need to boost it's carrying capacity with Ant Haul and a Belt.

Edit: Ant Haul would get it's light load carrying capacity up to 1596 pounds; a +2 Str Belt in addition would get it up to 2076 pounds as a light load, and would still be on budget if you cast Ant Haul yourself (6k for the construct, 4k for the belt). Should be able to carry everyone and their gear while flying, no problem, in a suitable howdah (although you'll need to scrape up a little extra for that... or maybe Minor Creation it)

Edit: If you are OK with a bit of cheddar, the Giant Template (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/simple-template-giant-cr-1/) is legal to apply to a Giant Owl (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/giant-owl/), but doesn't change the hit dice (and thus, the price of a waxwork creature remains the same). Up a size category, +4 Size to strength, and doesn't change the actual price. 6k market, 24 Str before items, and Gargantuan gives that Fly 60 (poor) construct a light load of 1864 pounds... before casting Ant Haul (bringing it to 5592 pounds as a light load). Put a howdah on that, and you should be golden. Fly 60, but it can run, with no limit, so 240 ft/round. And flying, so it doesn't need to worry about terrain, and can go in a straight line. And you're under budget, even with the howdah (or a really big bucket with a handle for the beast to grab).

... but then it's not land travel anymore.
@mehs: If that's a problem, just go with the waxwork creature light horse plan. 2k per person, 200 feet/round at a dead run, which they can maintain indefinitely.

[jmax]

Is 3.5 spell content allowed?

Traveler's Mount plus Tern's Persistence plus Wind at Back gives an effective six-fold improvement in overland travel speed.

[mehs]

Was looking through the shaman spells, found tailwind, and now am incredulous that none of you guys found it and pointed it out before now.

[Jack_Simth]

Was looking through the shaman spells, found tailwind, and now am incredulous that none of you guys found it and pointed it out before now.

Ah, right, because it's 3rd for a Shaman. 4th on most lists, out of range.

Setting that aside... how do you feel about waxwork mounts? Waxwork Creature Hippogryphs are 3k market each, have Fly 100, and (as constructs) can Run forever while flying for 400 feet/round (420, with tailwind). Alternately, Waxwork Light Horses are 2k market each, and can run forever at a move of 50 (so 200 feet/round).

[spectralphoenix]

I feel like relying on wings made of wax in a game that owes this this much to Greek mythology would be a bit like naming your unsinkable ship the Titanic, but otherwise it's a pretty good idea.

[jmax]

I feel like relying on wings made of wax in a game that owes this this much to Greek mythology would be a bit like naming your unsinkable ship the Titanic, but otherwise it's a pretty good idea.

Sometimes I really with this forum had a Like/Upvote button.

[jmax]

Waxwork Creature Hippogryphs are 3k market each, have Fly 100, and (as constructs) can Run forever while flying for 400 feet/round (420, with tailwind). Alternately, Waxwork Light Horses are 2k market each, and can run forever at a move of 50 (so 200 feet/round).

I don't think that's right.


Run
A character can run for a number of rounds equal to his Constitution score on the local scale without needing to rest.

Constructs have no Constitution score and therefore should not be able to run (i.e. they can run for Ø rounds). However, they could hustle indefinitely as they're immune to non-lethal damage and fatigue.

[Jack_Simth]

I don't think that's right.



Constructs have no Constitution score and therefore should not be able to run (i.e. they can run for Ø rounds). However, they could hustle indefinitely as they're immune to non-lethal damage and fatigue.

Ah, that's what's going on.

3.5 had the Nonability Definitions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities), which included: "A creature with no Constitution cannot tire and thus can run indefinitely without tiring (unless the creature’s description says it cannot run)."

Pathfinder apparently dropped the section, but I was remembering it. Hmm. Still, even at a permanent Hustle, a 100 foot fly speed gets you 200 ft/round, and a 50 foot move with the light horses gets you 100 ft/round, either of which beats the requested 80 ft/round that the OP had been using.

[Elkad]

Just pull your stagecoach with skeleton horses?

There are more optimal solutions, but this one is cheap and easy.

They can run the whole way, pulling 4x their light load even by the AEG rules (good roads should be better. MUCH better on the flat, about 20:1)

The passengers can even do things like sleep or prepare spells or maybe even craft while on the move.

[Maat Mons]

I don't think I'd bother investing too much money into your solution. In a level or two, you'll gain the ability to cast Phantom Chariot. That's as nice a means of locomotion as anything up until Teleport comes online. So just go for something cheap to get you by until then.

You don't really need Tailwind. At caster level 8, a Phantom Steed has enough HP to hustle for 15 hours. The spell only lasts for 8 hours, so that won't be an issue. Phantom Steeds are only quasi-real. They're not pre-existing creatures you summoned or called from elsewhere. So I don't think you need to feel bad about pushing them hard. If they were real, thinking beings, the fact that they cease to exist when the spell ends would be crueler than anything you could do to them in the meantime anyway.

I hadn't known about Carry Companion before. That's pretty cool. It's lower-level than Shrink Item, lasts longer, and it works on anything you can strap to a horse. None of this 2 cubic feet per level nonsense. Or even that pesky prohibition against magic items.

[Jack_Simth]

Just pull your stagecoach with skeleton horses?

There are more optimal solutions, but this one is cheap and easy.

They can run the whole way, pulling 4x their light load even by the AEG rules (good roads should be better. MUCH better on the flat, about 20:1)

The passengers can even do things like sleep or prepare spells or maybe even craft while on the move.

Things to keep in mind...
1) Thread is tagged as Pathfinder. It's common (but also far from universal) for such games to not accept 3.X source books.
2) Undead are evil. That adds some restrictions and hoops, depending on the game.

[AnonJr]

Undead are evil. That adds some restrictions and hoops, depending on the game.

They're not evil, they're just raised differently. :smallwink:

[jmax]

They're not evil, they're just raised differently. :smallwink:

That's beautiful - I may need to steal that.