Dread Necromancer (3.5 class) in 5E

[YellowJohn]

Dread Necromancer is a non-core base class from the 3.5 edition of the game. They are basically a Necromancy based Sorcerer with Rebuke Undead who slowly turns into a liche over the course of their career. I have been interested in playing one for some time.

It looks like I might be starting a 5E game soon, and was wondering if there was a way to get something close without homebrew, or a good homebrew update of the class uploaded somewhere I could try and talk my DM into allowing.

Thanks in anticipation.

[Rukelnikov]

Overall I think Undead Warlock is, out of the box, the closest 5e has to a Dread Necro, as it ticks the most boxes in a ok way or better.

The only noticeable mising feature would be Rebuke Undead, AFAIR the only class with such a power is the Oathbreaker Paladin, and they get it a 3rd level, but its limited to CR = Paladin level. Straight Necro gets an Undead Thrall by level 14, but it doesn't have the same feel as Rebuke Undead (once you have a good thrall you are unlikely to ever use the power again until you find a more suitable one)

If "slow descent into lichdom" is your main drive, Undead Lock is definitely the best. If that aspect of the Dread Necro is not your main pull, Straight Necro, Death Cleric and Oathbreaker all have something to bring to the table.

[YellowJohn]

Thanks for the information.

The flavour of the character is heavily borrowed from Neil Gaiman's Graveyard book - a girl raised by undead in a graveyard. She is shy and nervous around 'the living' (at least at first), but entirely comfortable walking up to a pack of ghouls and asking if the hunting is good tonight? She treats non-sentient undead like pets.

Wow... 5E is really short on ways to control undead. That's probably a feature - minionmancy can really make the game drag - but I'm starting to think that the class would require some serious homebrew, and that the concept might not translate at all. Sad times.

Is there a feat or something that makes undead treat you more like one of them?

Also: Can a 5E Sorcerer cast Animate Dead? Or is that limited to Necromancy Wizards? Asking for a friend...

[questionmark693]

AFAIK the only way to get that on your spell list would be via DM fiat. There's the magic initiate feat but only for first level and cantrips - maybe bring it up as a flavor specific thing, and be willing to offer some sort of sacrifice as a compromise.

[Rukelnikov]

Wow... 5E is really short on ways to control undead.

There aren't that many ways to control preexisting things in general, there are many ways to get minions though.


That's probably a feature - minionmancy can really make the game drag - but I'm starting to think that the class would require some serious homebrew, and that the concept might not translate at all. Sad times.

Is there a feat or something that makes undead treat you more like one of them?

Being comfortable around undead can be done via Undying Warlock (not the same one as Undead), 1st level allows you to be around Undead without much trouble


Starting at 1st level, you learn the spare the dying cantrip, which counts as a warlock cantrip for you. You also have advantage on saving throws against any disease.

Additionally, undead have difficulty harming you. If an undead targets you directly with an attack or a harmful spell, that creature must make a Wisdom saving throw against your spell save DC (an undead needn't make the save when it includes you in an area effect, such as the explosion of fireball). On a failed save, the creature must choose a new target or forfeit targeting someone instead of you, potentially wasting the attack or spell. On a successful save, the creature is immune to this effect for 24 hours. An undead is also immune to this effect for 24 hours if you target it with an attack or a harmful spell.

Its not impossible for them to harm you, but its a constant sanctuary effect vs Undead. The rest of the subclass while themathic (though really only its lvl 10 feature) is very uderwhelming powerwise. You could maybe dip 1 lvl of Undying for the feature you want, and take the rest in another class.


Also: Can a 5E Sorcerer cast Animate Dead? Or is that limited to Necromancy Wizards? Asking for a friend...

Every full caster gets access to Animate Dead in some way:

Bard: Magical Secrets @10, Lore Bard can get it @6
Cleric: Its on the list, they get it @5
Druid: Spore Druid gets it @5
Sorcerer: Divine Soul gets it @5
Warlock: With Tasha's spell options its on the list, there's also a new invocation to get one free casting of Animate Dead per long rest, either way they get it @5
Wizard: Its on the list, they get it @5

[RogueJK]

Every full caster gets access to Animate Dead in some way:

Warlock: With Tasha's spell options its on the list, there's also a new invocation to get one free casting of Animate Dead per long rest, either way they get it @5


Animate Dead is not a Warlock spell, even with TCOE's optional spell list. Warlocks only get Summon Undead. (Which is a stronger per-creature summoning spell, but doesn't allow you to amass a zombie/skeleton horde like Animate Dead.)

The only way for Warlocks to access Animate Dead is through the Undying Servitude Invocation, but that's quite honestly a trap. It allows a Warlock to cast Animate Dead 1x/day, but it doesn't become a Warlock spell or a spell known, so you cannot cast it again using spell slots or upcast it into any higher than a 3rd level slot. Therefore, you're limited to just one zombie or skeleton at a time. You cast it on Day 1 to raise a single zombie/skeleton. Then you recast is every subsequent day to either reassert control over that lone minion, or raise a lone replacement minion if the first one died. You can never have more than one, and in Tiers 2/3/4 a lone zombie/skeleton doesn't last long in combat.

So no raising an army of undead, like a Wizard/Cleric/Divine Soul Sorcerer could.

Don't waste your time with Undying Servitude.



Overall I think Undead Warlock is, out of the box, the closest 5e has to a Dread Necro, as it ticks the most boxes in a ok way or better.


I agree that, flavor- and ability-wise, an Undead Warlock is the best correlation to a Dread Necromancer, unless you're specifically wanting to amass that horde of disposable minions. Summon Undead still lets you have a spooky undead friend, and Warlock's auto-scaling Pact slots makes them an even more effective summoner with spells like Summon Undead that scale with upcasting.

In you insist on having Animate Dead for an undead horde, something like an Undead Warlock 6/Divine Soul Sorcerer X or Undead Warlock 6/Lore Bard X might be a better option, just understand that it's going to take a while to come fully online.

Oathbreaker Paladin 9/Undead Warlock X is also another option, with a similar caveat about taking a while to fully come online.

[Rukelnikov]

Animate Dead is not a Warlock spell, even with TCOE's optional spell list. Warlocks only get Summon Undead. (Which is a stronger per-creature summoning spell, but doesn't allow you to amass a zombie/skeleton horde like Animate Dead.)

The only way for Warlocks to access Animate Dead is through the Undying Servitude Invocation, but that's quite honestly a trap. It allows a Warlock to cast Animate Dead 1x/day, but it doesn't become a Warlock spell or a spell known, so you cannot cast it again using spell slots or upcast it into any higher than a 3rd level slot. Therefore, you're limited to just one zombie or skeleton at a time. You cast it on Day 1 to raise a single zombie/skeleton. Then you recast is every subsequent day to either reassert control over that lone minion, or raise a lone replacement minion if the first one died. You can never have more than one, and in Tiers 2/3/4 a lone zombie/skeleton doesn't last long in combat.

So no raising an army of undead, like a Wizard/Cleric/Divine Soul Sorcerer could.

Don't waste your time with Undying Servitude.

Oops, you are right, got those mixed.

[icedraikon]

Animate Dead is not a Warlock spell, even with TCOE's optional spell list. Warlocks only get Summon Undead. (Which is a stronger per-creature summoning spell, but doesn't allow you to amass a zombie/skeleton horde like Animate Dead.)

The only way for Warlocks to access Animate Dead is through the Undying Servitude Invocation, but that's quite honestly a trap.

So no raising an army of undead, like a Wizard/Cleric/Divine Soul Sorcerer could.

If your DM allows backgrounds from Ravnica, the Golgari Agent adds the Animate Dead spell to your spell list. It is not added automatically, so it will take up a spell known, but it gives you the option to straight up take Animate Dead on a Warlock.