When/How to multiclass my Lore bard

[Vodahim]

I'm joining a campaign after a long break and I wanted advices about the multiclassing of my Lore Bard.

So, first things first :
- The DM only allow Core books. However some options can be discussed.
- I don't know when the campaign will end (it'll surely continue as long as we have fun together).
- I'll be the "support" of the group (we actually have a Paladin Tank, a Rogue, an Archer and a caster (don't know the class(es) of the Archer/Caster).
- I'm going on a Fey themed Bard.


My reflexions about multiclassing :

Bard 1 / Cleric 1 / Bard 19 (+18) :
Cleric of Life Domain : Aura of Vitality as one of my first Magical Secret.
I don't really find Goodberries appealing, but it is awesome with Life Cleric.
But the question is : Does concentrating on Aura of Vitality is a good option ?

Bard 1 / Wizard 2 / Bard 18 (+17) :
I'm clearly going for Divination there. Adding those two dices to my pool of "Han Han Han, I think you mean that your boss COULD have damaged my friend Paladin. But really, he didn't."
But also Shield AND Find Familiar.

Warlock 3 : I don't know how to make those levels fit in the build.
My character being non-violent is an option (it depends on the rest of the group). So I don't really want to go into Eldritch Blast this time.
I'm here for : Devil's Sight, Book of Ancient Secrets , Aspect of the Moon. But I would need my DM to allow me Eldritch Adept. And push for a fourth lvl in Warlock.
And I'm also here for Titania as my Patron !!! (Damn, I love those patrons soooo much).


So my questions are :
1- In combat, does concentrating on Aura of Vitality a good option ?
2- Can you see fit for multiple options in one Build (Lore Bard 14 / Wizard 2 / Warlock 4 maybe ?) or is it just me being delusionnal ?

3- Can you help me multiclass correctly ?
I have no problems playing a Bard with "only" 14 lvls in it at lvl 20.
But I'll surely start my adventure at lvl 3 or 5. And I really want to be a good Bard all along the way.

Thanks in advance for your tips and solutions.

[nickl_2000]

What is your goal from multiclassing? What are you trying to get from it?

[Pildion]

I'm joining a campaign after a long break and I wanted advices about the multiclassing of my Lore Bard.

So, first things first :
- The DM only allow Core books. However some options can be discussed.
- I don't know when the campaign will end (it'll surely continue as long as we have fun together).
- I'll be the "support" of the group (we actually have a Paladin Tank, a Rogue, an Archer and a caster (don't know the class(es) of the Archer/Caster).
- I'm going on a Fey themed Bard.


My reflexions about multiclassing :

Bard 1 / Cleric 1 / Bard 19 (+18) :
Cleric of Life Domain : Aura of Vitality as one of my first Magical Secret.
I don't really find Goodberries appealing, but it is awesome with Life Cleric.
But the question is : Does concentrating on Aura of Vitality is a good option ?

Bard 1 / Wizard 2 / Bard 18 (+17) :
I'm clearly going for Divination there. Adding those two dices to my pool of "Han Han Han, I think you mean that your boss COULD have damaged my friend Paladin. But really, he didn't."
But also Shield AND Find Familiar.

Warlock 3 : I don't know how to make those levels fit in the build.
My character being non-violent is an option (it depends on the rest of the group). So I don't really want to go into Eldritch Blast this time.
I'm here for : Devil's Sight, Book of Ancient Secrets , Aspect of the Moon. But I would need my DM to allow me Eldritch Adept. And push for a fourth lvl in Warlock.
And I'm also here for Titania as my Patron !!! (Damn, I love those patrons soooo much).


So my questions are :
1- In combat, does concentrating on Aura of Vitality a good option ?
2- Can you see fit for multiple options in one Build (Lore Bard 14 / Wizard 2 / Warlock 4 maybe ?) or is it just me being delusionnal ?

3- Can you help me multiclass correctly ?
I have no problems playing a Bard with "only" 14 lvls in it at lvl 20.
But I'll surely start my adventure at lvl 3 or 5. And I really want to be a good Bard all along the way.

Thanks in advance for your tips and solutions.

If you want to roll support caster, with a Fey theme, I would go ether Feylock2>LoreBard18 for the end game magic secrets. If you don't think the campaign will go that far, I would go Feylock3>LoreBard17

Feylock3 gets you pact option + 2nd level spells but ether way you also get EB\AB.

Looks like you have a "caster" so maybe lean more support spells if they go blaster? I found that Aura of Vit is not much of a combat spell, but amazing for healing after.

[Vodahim]

I never really support in D&D and played mostly in 3.5 edition.

What I'm trying to accomplish by multiclassing ?

Boost my self protection. I plan on going Charisma/Wisdom or Charisma/Intelligence for the ability score. Being sturdier seems to never be a bad option.

Being able to reduce RNG and smooth the outcomes. Advantage/Disadvantage, +1d4 on attack/ability check, reroll, etc

And then. Warlock. I'm just a fan of invocations and I love patrons (maybe because I don't often come close to deity or likewise beings, and because my DM always include PJs agendas in his campaign).

I could have rituals with Ritual Caster. And Dark Vision with a magic item. But if Titinia where to give me this power, man it would be so much awesome.

EDIT : the "caster" could be an Eldritch Warlock. And play a magical DPS.



EDIT (post summarize) :
"What I'm trying to accomplish by multiclassing ?"

Cleric/Wizard : optimise my character (but I don't know if it really works)
Warlock : Take the sweet patron and cool features from the class, even if it's not optimal.
As long as the character doesn't begin to suck at his job. At least, that he isn't a burden to play for more than 2 lvl.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Like the others above were asking, what is your goal here?

I have a Lore Bard 19, then Claric 1 build just because our party met Pelor and Bard 20 did not seem like much fun.

In another a fellow player is running a Bard / Cleric split. The personality of a kind of broken Han Solo televangelist is cool and it keeps up mechanically.

[nickl_2000]

There are lots of way to be less squishy.

1) You can take vHuman and take the moderately armored feat. That nets you medium armor and a shield turning you from a squishy into someone with decent AC Additionally it means you can get level 9 Bard spells and take the 3 levels of Warlock
2) You can dip into Paladin, Artificer, Fighter, Cleric, Druid, or Ranger for better armor.
3) You can get temporary hit points.
a) Inspiring Leader Feat
b) Warlock invocation, Fiendish Vigor (via feat or Warlock levels)
4) Dip into Hexblade
5) Reduce attack rolls against you or damage done to you with cutting words
6) Dip Wizard or Sorcerer for Shield.
7) Pick up Shield as magical secrets
8) 2 levels of Bladesinger really boosts your AC with Bladesong, 2 levels of War Wizard gets you Arcane Deflection.


Here's the thing I'm getting from you. You clearly are interested in the concepts and fluff of the Archfey Warlock, but you also want to be a bard. So here is what I would suggest for starting at level 3:

VHuman Archfey Warlock 2/ Bard 1
Invocations: Devil's Sight, Fiendish Vigor

Stats: 8/14/14/8/14/16 (+1 dex, +1 cha, +1 dex from feat).
So you have a good AC from moderately armored and shield and extra THP at will.

You have the ability to Viscously Mock as your main damage, Chill touch from Warlock for a spell attack, and 2 more cantrips available for utility purposes.


If you start at 5:
VHuman Archfey Warlock 2/ Bard 3
Invocations: Devil's Sight, Fiendish Vigor

Stats: 8/14/14/8/14/16 (+1 dex, +1 cha, +1 dex from feat).
So you have a good AC from moderately armored and shield and extra THP at will.

This gives you bardic inspiration and cutting words.



The problem with this is that you are delaying getting to level 5 with Bard until you get to PC level 7 and delaying font of inspiration until PC level 8. That is pretty rough because those are both huge and powerful on a bard. That being said, you get to be a Bard and you get to be an Archfey Warlock from the beginning. Over the long term I would look at picking up Warlock 3 at PC level 9. When you do that you drop either fiendish vigor or devil's sight to get rituals for Pact of the Tome. The go Bard the rest of the way.

[Vodahim]

Ok I maybe miss the question right there.

If you mean from a rule point of view and optimization, I answered the best I could.
(I'm french btw, I could have misunderstand some things).

If it's from a RP point of view :

Short version :

I want to play a good guy (CM) who want and can influence destiny. Non-violent at first, he can grow more gloomy depending on what he'll witness.
He is a coward. Not the absolute coward, but he'll always try to find some ways to succeed without having to fight directly is opponent. If it's not possible, well, he's in a group for a reason.
He can grow more responsible too.

His hobbies include making jokes, making stories and doing nothing at all. Every responsibility is a burden.
But we could hope that he find true purpose in his journey.


I don't know if this answer your question.


@nickl_2000 : didn't see your post. I come back as soon as I can ;)

EDIT : So delaying Font of Inspiration hurt.
That's the same for magical secret and spell lvl 3 I guess.

Thanks for the options. I'll look into that !
I thoughted about taking Inspiring Leader for sweet THP for everyone.

[Keravath]

As a lore bard you are good at many skills. How important is this to your character?

One choice is to start with a level of knowledge cleric then follow with lore bard levels. This gains you expertise in two additional skills at first level and only delays the bard spell progression by one level. You also have a decent AC from medium armor and shields. If you start as variant human or custom lineage you could also take the resilient con feat which will help you maintain concentration on spells.

Being a knowledge cleric could also let you play into your "cowardice" aspect of the character in terms of shying away from fights. Unfortunately, the life cleric concept where the character wanders out into the middle of melee to get people within range of his aura of vitality requires a lot more bravery than cowardice.

In terms of Aura of Vitality - it heals 2d6 (or 2d6+5 for a life cleric) every round as a bonus action. A bard often uses their bonus action to grant bardic inspiration. In addition, you might be better off concentrating on hypnotic pattern or banishment or another spell that keeps opponents out of the fight rather than restoring an average of 12 hit points each round which is typically less than the damage the opponents will deal each round. "Support" in 5e is often better used to suppress opponents or keep them out of the fight while also doing damage to the remainder (via cantrip) rather than trying to keep up with the damage done by opponents by healing. I play a level 7 life cleric and they have never used Aura of Vitality.

Thematically, it sounds like two levels of fae warlock would fit your character concept though I would probably pick Agonizing Blast and Devils sight. You could start as a variant human or custom lineage and pick up either moderately armored or resilient con at level 1. (Choices would also depend somewhat on what your stats are).

-----

Based on your character concept, I'd either multiclass two levels of fae warlock (direct connection to the fae) or one level of knowledge cleric (character has spent "years" studying the fae and has developed the utmost respect for them). DM dependent you could even choose Titania as the being you worship.

[Bobthewizard]

You can just go straight lore bard if you want. They are great. Yes, bards have some weaknesses - no WIS or CON saves, bad AC, no shield or absorb elements spells - but silvery barbs mitigates a lot of that, and unless you are in a very high optimization table, bards are on the higher end of the power curve.

If you are building a high level character, then I would multi class. If you are playing your way through, though, I find getting my bard abilities on time to be more fun than the defensive benefits of multiclassing.

Cutting words and 2nd level spells at level 3.
Bardic Inspiration on a short rest and 3rd level spells at level 5.
Magical secrets at levels 6 and 10.
Animate objects at level 9.

I don't like delaying any of those, so if you want to increase your defense, I vote for variant human/custom lineage for the moderately armored feat.

[RogueJK]

What I'm trying to accomplish by multiclassing ?

Boost my self protection. I plan on going Charisma/Wisdom or Charisma/Intelligence for the ability score. Being sturdier seems to never be a bad option.

Being able to reduce RNG and smooth the outcomes. Advantage/Disadvantage, +1d4 on attack/ability check, reroll, etc


Life Cleric 1/Lore Bard X is a fantastic support character. It's certainly the best support build using just the core books.

Dipping Life Cleric 1 gets you:
WIS/CHA saving throws (if starting Cleric)
Armor and Shield proficiency for self-protection
Access to Bless and Guidance for +1d4 for attacks/saving throws/ability checks
Boosted healing, for both your Cleric and Bard healing spells

You can then use your Lore Bard Magical Secrets to snag other non-Bard support spells to help the party, such as non-Bard healing spells like Aura of Vitality or Goodberry, non-Bard resurrection spells like Revivify or Raise Dead, or non-Bard party damage mitigation spells like Circle of Power or Death Ward.

It'd be even handier in this case, since it appears that your party has no other Healer character. (Paladins have some minor healing options, but aren't full-blown healers.)

[KorvinStarmast]

After 19 levels of Lore Bard, I picked up a level of Fathomless Warlock for mostly thematic reasons.
1. Swimming and water breathing, since my patron/muse/deity was a deep ocean being called the Leviathan.
2. Background = sailor.
3. A couple of extra spells (Comprehend Languages and I forget the other one) known didn't hurt. The two cantrips (EB and Mind Sliver) gave me some options, but at level 20 I was hardly a bigger threat with any of them.
4. Silly fun with that tentacle when dealing with minions who came calling on behalf of their high level NPC masters/lords/demonlords, etc.

If I had to do it all over again, I would consider going 1 Bard, 1 Warlock Fathomless, 18 more Bard. But as it worked out, I didn't need to.

[Vodahim]

When I said that I never played support, I meaned that I didn't play any casters before.
And spells seems a hassle to delay, them and Bard key features.

Thanks a lot for your answers.
I have some solids tracks to look into. I'll get you in touch on what I come up with after talking with my DM.
And make adjustments if people switch classes/roles before the start of our journey.

Silvery Barbs seems like a sweet spell, but it's unfortunately not available to me.
Cheers for Death Ward. I can't wait to fall from a huge dragon and land on my face !

EDIT : I tried to learn more about Titania and the faeries and I find something interesting : Ars Magica.
But can I find anything related to the faeries from DD5 ? Or from any official D&D sources ?

[KorvinStarmast]

When I said that I never played support, I meaned that I didn't play any casters before.
And spells seems a hassle to delay, them and Bard key features.
You are correct. Going straight Lore bard if your focus is support simply works.

[RogueJK]

And spells seems a hassle to delay, them and Bard key features.

Dipping 1 level doesn't hurt much, especially when it's another full caster.

Having played a Life Cleric 1/Lore Bard X from Level 2 through 14ish, I can attest that the benefits from just 1 level of Life Cleric certainly outweighed the Bard abilities and spells known being very slightly delayed.


I've also played other characters who were full casters with 1 level dips that were similarly well worth the slight delay, including Monk 1/Moon Druid X, Knowledge Cleric 1/Divination Wizard X, and Hexblade 1/Shadow Sorcerer X.

[Vodahim]

Yeah. I think I totally agree with the "dip".
Actually pondering what feels better :
- A Holy Bard who put on a full light and shiny plate armor (and could take control over life and death if it wasn't this bothersome) (Cleric of Life 1 - VH : Inspiring Leader)
OR
- An Oracle whose sheer will can bend fate (Diviner 2 - VH : Lucky)

And I think for one level dip I might take it at lvl 2, but for 2 I might take it at lvl 7/8.

[Vodahim]

Sorry for the double post, but last message was more than 24 hours ago.

So I heared what you said and I'll take the simple but effective dip in Life Cleric at lvl 2.
After lvl 7 or 11 (Bard 6/10) my GM'll introduce me to a patreon depending on how things evolve in the campaign.
Could be fun or troublesome with the Fiend Warlock in the party.

Thanks again for your advises.

[nickl_2000]

Sounds like you have a great plan, have fun with the PC!

[Bobthewizard]

You might want to start Cleric. Wisdom saves are more important than Dex saves. And that one skill you lose is not very meaningful on a lore bard since you get so many skills and also have Jack of All Trades.

[RogueJK]

You might want to start Cleric. Wisdom saves are more important than Dex saves. And that one skill you lose is not very meaningful on a lore bard since you get so many skills and also have Jack of All Trades.

You won't lose any skills.

Bards start with 3 skill proficiencies. Clerics start with 2 skill proficiencies, and you get +1 when you multiclass into Bard, so you end up with the same 3 in the end.


You do miss out on two musical instrument proficiencies. Bard starts with 3. Cleric starts with none, and multiclassing into Bard only gets you +1.