XCOM and XCOM 2

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I picked up XCOM 2 last Steam Sale and last night I beat the main story. I enjoyed it sufficiently that the DLC is going to go on my buy list but I’m wondering about XCOM 1 - I skipped straight to 2 initially out of the concern that the first one might be a little too dated to be fun, but I enjoyed 2 so much I’m reconsidering. So I’ll ask all of you: if I enjoyed XCOM 2, will I enjoy XCOM 1? If yes, are there any gotchas or caveats I should know about?

[Mechalich]

So I did this exact same thing a couple of years ago, purchased XCOM 2, beat it, and then grabbed XCOM 1 on the next round of sales. I loaded up XCOM 1, played through the first few missions, and then dropped it.

My memory is that all the problems XCOM 2 has in the early game - when your basic characters have essentially no tools to do anything and you're at the mercy of the RNG - are significantly worse in the early stages of XCOM 1.

[Thomas Cardew]

I believe there's an XCOM EU demo you can try which is basically the first mission or two of the storyline.That may be worth a look.

XCOM EW/EU is a simpler/less flashy game. It definitely feels like there's less things going on, even if the core is there. There's no Resistance Ring operations, no hero class soldiers, training center to stack skills on your Ateam, no free action items. But there's also no will system, meaning it's easier to pump out those first couple of super soldiers. Its beginning can be a little bit harsher than xcom 2. You can lose countries support permanently quite easily which prevents you from getting full bonuses. This can FEEL like a loss even if you're still perfectly capable of winning the game. There's also a big jump on difficulty moving you from 'grenades are a limited but guaranteed one hit kill option' to 'everything still has 1 hp left' depending on settings. There's also no real level timers like in XCOM 2 where you fail a mission if you don't win fast enough, you can slow crawl across the map in overwatch if you want. There's a timed currency, but it's not crucial and fairly lenient.

The one major gotcha the game pulls is a mandatory mission that you doesn't let you equip items beforehand. So make sure your teams are loaded up in the barracks all the time. There's also no squad upgrades, you don't automatically upgrade all your weapons for everyone, you have to make individual rifles for every soldier.

I enjoyed both games. The core is generally the same, but 2 has a lot more options and features.

EDIT: Clarification: Have you played only base XCOM2? Not with War of the Chosen? If so, then I would say you more likely to generically enjoy XCOM EU/EW. The base game is closer to EU/EW than WotC; if you really like features in WotC that would have complicated the analysis.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Speaking as someone who came to the franchise in order, starting back on the original game way back in the day, I will say that XCOM2 is a riff on XCOM:EU/EW but one with significant differences and challenges.

* While there are overworld timers, you don't generally 'see' them in XCOM:EU/EW, which I personally find more immersive but others will find more annoying. Instead of a doom clock ticking down to some project which is an instant-fail condition, you instead are typically presented with 2-3 missions but can only select one of them to perform, which cause panic in the other two regions. This means you are going to get panic increases across the board, and does effectively act as a clock you are racing against, but doesn't explicitly call out 'you have x many turns until you fail' like XCOM2 does.

* On that same token, much of the 'RNG BS' comes from not managing this mechanic very well because the game will tempt you into risky plays like picking a mission with a Sgt as a reward when you barely have your first promotions available, but that particular country doesn't have a whole lot of panic while another mission option is about to go into full panic mode and withdraw but is only offering like ten credits as a reward. The 'reward' in this situation is not losing the country, but it doesn't 'feel' like it to many gamers, who focus almost exclusively on the prizes not the risk management. Mind you, RNG absolutely CAN bend you over without lube, which always sucks, but not nearly as often as its reputation would have you believe. Which again can backslide rapidly if you are so focused on simply not losing countries and don't focus on preventing them from going backwards in the first place.

* In XCOM:EU there are only a few missions that have actual timers, while this is the norm in XCOM2. This means in XCOM:EU, your best option is to Overwatch Crawl your way across a map, because triggering multiple packs is going to really hurt. XCOM:EW tried to counteract this effective but boring playstyle by introducing the Meld mechanic, which does have a timer to at least get to specific points before the Meld canisters go bad. But Meld is a bonus, not a necessity and will not generate a fail condition if you don't get it. XCOM2 is a more dynamic game which will always and without fail put you on a timer of some kind, which will tempt you into making poor tactical choices because you feel time is running out. The timers are generally generous enough that you can largely ignore it and not let it get to you, but it does at least somewhat constrain the amount of Overwatch Crawling you do. As a result, XCOM2 missions tend to go by faster, while XCOM:EU/EW missions tend to feel like they drag on because your knee-jerk reflex is to ensure everyone is in some kind of cover and overwatch set before you end turn on every turn even if there are no enemies spotted. Because in EU/EW, failing to do so can result in one of those 'BS RNG' moments where a pack patrols into you and triggers on their turn and you lose half your squad because they were out of position.

* XCOM2 tends to 'hold your hand' a bit more, by explicitly calling out timers and such. It also tends to scale slower, because the lose condition can easily be countered just by hitting a specific set of facilities and there are no cumulative penalties for just letting the timer tick down a bit. In XCOM:EU/EW, the 'enemy' is more aggressive, you will continue getting three mission options and only being able to pick one, leading to general panic escalation. Time is a resource in both games, the difference is that XCOM2 tells you this explicitly, while XCOM:EU/EW doesn't. Also, EU/EW punishes you for not staying on top of your panic by denying resources while XCOM2 has no penalties whatsoever for letting the doom clock tick down.

* As a result, early game in EU/EW is generally going to be more difficult than in XCOM2, but you have the potential to snowball harder and faster. Unfortunately, there's also a lower ceiling cap on how far your individual units can go in EU/EW, while some of the things you can do in XCOM2 are silly broken in comparison. So you have this odd sort of bell curve of early game being difficult, midgame being relatively chill, then lategame becomes hard again as you've already hit your hard cap while the enemy continues to grow, while XCOM2 generally does a better job of scaling with you. By that same token, you can also backslide harder and faster in EU/EW into what is going to be a nearly unwinnable state unless you're really good if you don't stay on top of your priorities, while that is nearly impossible to do in XCOM2.

As far as which is better? I leave that up to the individual player. It does, however, play differently. Being used to one can make the other feel 'bad' because mechanics and reflexes used in one will punish you in the other. If you're used to Overwatch Crawling from EU/EW, then XCOM2's timed missions are going to feel punitive. If you're used to XCOM2's enemy movement patterns, you may be surprised by EU/EW's 'BS RNG'. If you're used to XCOM2's strategy of 'running down the clock to get yourself established', then EU/EW is going to absolutely bend you over without lube as panic *will* spiral out of control, and will feel like more 'BS RNG'. You also won't get the same kind of OP units in EU as you will in XCOM2, although EW does give you more options with MELD, so the power fantasy of your A-Team rolling through everything simply won't happen in EU and is less likely to happen in EW than in XCOM2.

They're not mutually exclusive, but I can see some people who prefer one or the other not liking the other. But I can also see some who like both. It's a matter of personal preference. I'd personally suggest XCOM:EU and the DLC Enemy Within immediately if you've played XCOM2, and not bother playing the vanilla game. The Meld mechanics will give you the closest the game gets to consistent timers and power ceilings that you are used to.

[MCerberus]

A good short version I've heard is:

Xcom EU is more a board game. There's more mechanical simplicity but it means each encounter is a unique little puzzle to solve.
Xcom 2 is (and especially with WotC, which I always recommend) every mechanic ever always at the same time. Tactical application of anime superpowers. More variety but you can get to the point where you can 'brute force' encounters which just takes something away from them.

[warty goblin]

I think XCOM 1 + Enemy Within is a better, more cohesive game than XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen.

XCOM 1 base suffered from not doing enough to force aggressive play, which could make battles really tedious. Enemy Within solved this by literally just giving you rewards for being more aggressive, but in any given mission you could still ignore them if you were in a bad position, had wounded soldiers, or whatever. The other additions EW made were good, and I think improved the tactical heart of the game without shredding it. Advent was a good idea, albeit underbaked, probably by necessity; if you actually gave players anything close to a mirror match they'd hate it because XCOM's abilities are broken nonsense that would cause far to much damage.

XCOM 2 solved the slow tactical battles problem with timers, which I think is overkill and a much worse solution than EW had. It also I think went way too far in penalizing injury, which warped enemies away from attacking and towards using a gimmick to set up a one-turn puzzle, which is less interesting to me than good positional tactics. War of the Chosen is in a lot of ways good, but it adds way, way, way too much stuff. You can just feel the game creak under the huge number of gimmicks and extra things jammed in there, and the turn times get just stupid long. And it's an utter mess of too many systems and ways to upgrade and it kinda trips over its own feet.

Anyway, to my mind the answer to wamting more XCOM is to decide whether you want a lot more tactical freedom and dynamism, or a lot more strategic depth and simulationist crunch. If the first, play Gears Tactics. If the second, Phoenix Point. I think both titles comfortably outstrip XCOM in their own ways, and make it pretty much impossible for me to go back.

[GloatingSwine]

Yeah, Gears Tactics is a great XCOM-a-like. I'd like them to do a second one with more of a strategy layer and less reliance on mutators for mission challenge.

[Cespenar]

I'll third Gears Tactics, it's a pretty clean upgrade to the xcom chassis without coming off as a knockoff.

Also, I never understand making a tactics game and then worry about people playing it too tactical, aka using overwatch hop. It's called covering your advance, the most basic and sensible maneuver IRL.

Meh, the timers in XCOM2 was the first thing that I modded out. The game became pretty fun after that.

Like, if you worried about slowing the game down with overwatchs, maybe make the maps smaller instead? That worked pretty well IMO in Chimera Squad, which is also ironically theirs.

[GloatingSwine]

I didn't mod the timers out in XCOM 2 (I played it on PS4 first anyway) but when I replayed it on PC with WotC I used one that doubled them.

[Cespenar]

I didn't mod the timers out in XCOM 2 (I played it on PS4 first anyway) but when I replayed it on PC with WotC I used one that doubled them.

That sounds reasonable. To be more accurate, I think I didn't turn them off per se, but extended them moderately + made it so that it only starts to tick down after you're noticed.

[warty goblin]

I think the thing that works for me about Gears is how focused and straightforward it is. XCOM is full of dumb corner cases you have to memorize; which actions end your turn, which don't take an action, and interface is really bad about showing this.

Gears just gives you your three AP, everything cost an AP, if you want to repeat actions you can. No corner cases to memorize because the system is just that simple. It does a great job of presenting information as well, lines of sight and overwatch provocation are totally obvious. Multiple enemies taking their turns at the same time is also wonderful and keeps things moving quickly.

It just works at making combat fast and fun and as free of frustrating BS as any tactics game I've played. I also like that it feels a bit less weighted towards dropping super powerful special abilities, and a bit more towards excelling at the basic maneuver tactics.

[Thomas Cardew]

That reminds me of one of the big gotcha/QoL/Tactical changes. In XCOM 1 reloading ends your turn while in XCOM 2 it doesn't. Expect it to get a soldier killed at least once when you forget/ before you acclimate.

[Forum Explorer]

I'd say you'd probably enjoy XCOM 1 as well. Between the two, I do like the first one better mechanics wise, though I think the second is better story wise. Also X-Com 1 does suffer from having to buy each individual upgrade, which was very annoying, but admittedly, a pretty good mechanic to prevent you from scaling too fast. All in all, I'd say X-Com 1 felt harder on a strategic level while X-Com 2 had harder missions, but overall felt a lot easier as it felt really hard to actually lose the game.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Thank you everyone! Sounds like it’s worth giving a shot. :smallsmile:



EDIT: Clarification: Have you played only base XCOM2?

Correct. :smallsmile:



* While there are overworld timers, you don't generally 'see' them in XCOM:EU/EW, which I personally find more immersive but others will find more annoying. Instead of a doom clock ticking down to some project which is an instant-fail condition, you instead are typically presented with 2-3 missions but can only select one of them to perform, which cause panic in the other two regions. This means you are going to get panic increases across the board, and does effectively act as a clock you are racing against, but doesn't explicitly call out 'you have x many turns until you fail' like XCOM2 does.

That does actually sound much better! Guess I’ll have to try it for myself.


That reminds me of one of the big gotcha/QoL/Tactical changes. In XCOM 1 reloading ends your turn while in XCOM 2 it doesn't. Expect it to get a soldier killed at least once when you forget/ before you acclimate.

Good to know! Thank you for the tip!


I'd say you'd probably enjoy XCOM 1 as well. Between the two, I do like the first one better mechanics wise, though I think the second is better story wise. Also X-Com 1 does suffer from having to buy each individual upgrade, which was very annoying, but admittedly, a pretty good mechanic to prevent you from scaling too fast. All in all, I'd say X-Com 1 felt harder on a strategic level while X-Com 2 had harder missions, but overall felt a lot easier as it felt really hard to actually lose the game.

Squad upgrades threw me for a loop the first time I got one, it’s not advertised very well. The UI in general I think is one of 2’s big weaknesses, if there’s ever an XCOM 3 I hope they clean it up.

[Cikomyr2]

I never integrated that, but making the dichotomy between Xcom EU vs Xcom2 to be

"XCOM is a Tactical-Simulation game"
"XCOM2 is a Tactical-Adventure-Simulation game"

Strangely, playing as the underdog/resistance in XCOM2 allows for more thematic application of heroic capabilities to your squad, while in the first XCOM you played The Man, and your troopers were not the heroic team of resistance fighters who burst you out of prison. They were just soldiers.

Disposable, replaceable soldiers.

[Eldan]

And they lean into that even harder in War of the Chosen, with the team of special soldier characters*.

*I think they are all voiced by Star Trek TNG actors, too? Denise Crosby, John De Lancie, Jonathan Frakes, Michael Dorn and Marina Sirtis. Someone in the casting department for that game was clearly a fan.

[warty goblin]

I never integrated that, but making the dichotomy between Xcom EU vs Xcom2 to be

"XCOM is a Tactical-Simulation game"
"XCOM2 is a Tactical-Adventure-Simulation game"

Strangely, playing as the underdog/resistance in XCOM2 allows for more thematic application of heroic capabilities to your squad, while in the first XCOM you played The Man, and your troopers were not the heroic team of resistance fighters who burst you out of prison. They were just soldiers.

Disposable, replaceable soldiers.

I've always found the the extreme power of your dudes in XCOM 2 to be severely anti-thematic. The irregular side of irregular warfare doesn't generally enjoy overwhelming technological and logistical superiority, to say nothing of 50 or 100 - 1 kill ratios in their favor, or apparently enjoying total air superiority and going everywhere via VTOL jet. That sort of gross materiel advantage is the business of extremely developed states with huge production capabilities completely removed from the enemy's reach.


Which is why I concluded XCOM 2 is a counter-terrorism fantasy with aliens instead of terrorists, and a weird marketing gimmick where you're supposed to feel like the weaker side. As you fly your giant hovering aircraft carrier around, ordering custom genetic mutations and researching cutting edge technology.

[MCerberus]

I've always found the the extreme power of your dudes in XCOM 2 to be severely anti-thematic. The irregular side of irregular warfare doesn't generally enjoy overwhelming technological and logistical superiority, to say nothing of 50 or 100 - 1 kill ratios in their favor, or apparently enjoying total air superiority and going everywhere via VTOL jet. That sort of gross materiel advantage is the business of extremely developed states with huge production capabilities completely removed from the enemy's reach.


Which is why I concluded XCOM 2 is a counter-terrorism fantasy with aliens instead of terrorists, and a weird marketing gimmick where you're supposed to feel like the weaker side. As you fly your giant hovering aircraft carrier around, ordering custom genetic mutations and researching cutting edge technology.

I actually don't mind this and think it's more a marketing mistake than anything. In XCOM 2 you don't play as the resistance. You play as XCOM. XCOM was the only thing that put up a fight, shot down a UFO, didn't stop fighting ever. Your lead engineer created functional combat AI and robotics with nothing. Your scientist became a horror movie monster to the invaders. Central was so feared the ayys were studying his sweater in case it held untold secrets.

They rescue the commander and the elders hit the panic button. You get the ship running and every successful fighting organization scrambles to take your orders. Resistance cells say the XCOM motto like it's a magic spell that summons wrath because it does. The "GTFO my planet" tone fits that much better than other games that do the 'rag tag last hope' organization ex: Phoenix Point.

[BRC]

I actually don't mind this and think it's more a marketing mistake than anything. In XCOM 2 you don't play as the resistance. You play as XCOM. XCOM was the only thing that put up a fight, shot down a UFO, didn't stop fighting ever. Your lead engineer created functional combat AI and robotics with nothing. Your scientist became a horror movie monster to the invaders. Central was so feared the ayys were studying his sweater in case it held untold secrets.

They rescue the commander and the elders hit the panic button. You get the ship running and every successful fighting organization scrambles to take your orders. Resistance cells say the XCOM motto like it's a magic spell that summons wrath because it does. The "GTFO my planet" tone fits that much better than other games that do the 'rag tag last hope' organization ex: Phoenix Point.

My biggest issues, thematically, with Xcom 2 were

1) The look of the top-tier armor. IIRC Tier 2 armor looked like something a resistance group with advanced, but minimal, infrastructure would put together, but Tier 3 armor was all sleek cyberpunk jumpsuits and the like.

2) So many of the mission types end with "Kill all the Baddies", which doesn't really sell the idea that you're a Resistance group. Like, that works for defending resistance HQs and maybe seizing supply convoys. The Blacksite Missions, if I recall, end with you calling in an evacuation and then holding out until it arrives against waves of reinforcements, and I thought that fit a lot better than "You've turned off the timer by completing the mission. Now keep shooting until you run out of bodies"

[Kareeah_Indaga]

After an abortive first attempt on Veteran, all of my soldiers are now getting their uniforms dyed in garishly bright colors based on class. :smallannoyed: :smalltongue:

[Cikomyr2]

After an abortive first attempt on Veteran, all of my soldiers are now getting their uniforms dyed in garishly bright colors based on class. :smallannoyed: :smalltongue:

Thats what they did in The Long War. I thought it was brilliant.

But then, its XCOM EU with 8 classes

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Thats what they did in The Long War. I thought it was brilliant.

But then, its XCOM EU with 8 classes

I hope it works out for me. I might need to tweak the Specialist color scheme further, right now it’s blue and white for the medic branch, and blue and yellow for the electrical branch, but I’m not sure how well the white and yellow will differentiate at a distance and in bad lighting. (The other classes are all solid since I don’t have separate specialties with them so much.) Then again, my big issue last try was getting two Specialists mixed up such that I put the medkit on the non-medic and it ended up costing me an objective, so maybe it’ll be okay as long as it’s obvious on the loadout screen.

[Artanis]

After an abortive first attempt on Veteran, all of my soldiers are now getting their uniforms dyed in garishly bright colors based on class. :smallannoyed: :smalltongue:

Same. I made that decision about four or five missions into my first XCOM1 playthrough, after a turn where I based my strategy around using my Assault trooper's Run And Gun to finish off the last enemy in a pod, then got to him...and realized he'd been a Support all along :smalleek:

Ever since then, in both games, Heavies are red, Snipers are blue, Assaults are green, and Supports are white.*



*And likewise for their XCOM2 equivalents

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Same. I made that decision about four or five missions into my first XCOM1 playthrough, after a turn where I based my strategy around using my Assault trooper's Run And Gun to finish off the last enemy in a pod, then got to him...and realized he'd been a Support all along :smalleek:

Ever since then, in both games, Heavies are red, Snipers are blue, Assaults are green, and Supports are white.*



*And likewise for their XCOM2 equivalents

My current color scheme is as follows:

Rookies are white (the rule is, you don’t get promoted until the bloodstains don’t come out any more :smallwink:).
Rangers are green.
Specialists are blue because it matches the Gremlin lights, and either white or yellow as I mentioned.
Grenadiers are red for the color of the explosions they cause.
Sharpshooters are orange as a reflection of the copious amounts of alien blood they spill.
I have yet to get any Psi Operatives (and I completely skipped them during my Rookie run) but I’m planning to make them purple.


I do wish I didn’t have to change the colors manually. Something to hope for in XCOM 3 I guess!

Question though, how did the groups of enemies come to be called ‘pods’? You aren’t the first person I’ve seen call them that.

[Cikomyr2]

My current color scheme is as follows:

Rookies are white (the rule is, you don’t get promoted until the bloodstains don’t come out any more :smallwink:).
Rangers are green.
Specialists are blue because it matches the Gremlin lights, and either white or yellow as I mentioned.
Grenadiers are red for the color of the explosions they cause.
Sharpshooters are orange as a reflection of the copious amounts of alien blood they spill.
I have yet to get any Psi Operatives (and I completely skipped them during my Rookie run) but I’m planning to make them purple.


I do wish I didn’t have to change the colors manually. Something to hope for in XCOM 3 I guess!

Question though, how did the groups of enemies come to be called ‘pods’? You aren’t the first person I’ve seen call them that.

I do hope we go back to more formal military in the next game. And designing the uniform color scheme for your Space Force would be cool.

[Eldan]

Don't they actually climb out of some kind of pod in the intro video? I seem to remember that.

[Artanis]

Question though, how did the groups of enemies come to be called ‘pods’? You aren’t the first person I’ve seen call them that.

I honestly don't recall where it came from. They're grouped into pods, and somebody called it that very early on, but I don't remember who - it might've been a developer before release, even.

[Forum Explorer]

I honestly don't recall where it came from. They're grouped into pods, and somebody called it that very early on, but I don't remember who - it might've been a developer before release, even.

It was a developer. I'm pretty sure I remember them using the word pods in one of their previews.

[Cespenar]

It kinda fits the alien theme as well, so they probably thought it through.

[Rakaydos]

I actually don't mind this and think it's more a marketing mistake than anything. In XCOM 2 you don't play as the resistance. You play as XCOM. XCOM was the only thing that put up a fight, shot down a UFO, didn't stop fighting ever. Your lead engineer created functional combat AI and robotics with nothing. Your scientist became a horror movie monster to the invaders. Central was so feared the ayys were studying his sweater in case it held untold secrets.

They rescue the commander and the elders hit the panic button. You get the ship running and every successful fighting organization scrambles to take your orders. Resistance cells say the XCOM motto like it's a magic spell that summons wrath because it does. The "GTFO my planet" tone fits that much better than other games that do the 'rag tag last hope' organization ex: Phoenix Point.

Note that in the original game (not enemy unknown, I'm talking XCOM: UFO DEFENSE) the Avenger itself was an endgame ship. It didnt matter how bad the situation was on earth if you still had the funding to launch that final mission to mars, which could only be attempted with an Avenger.

[Cikomyr2]

Note that in the original game (not enemy unknown, I'm talking XCOM: UFO DEFENSE) the Avenger itself was an endgame ship. It didnt matter how bad the situation was on earth if you still had the funding to launch that final mission to mars, which could only be attempted with an Avenger.

Oh my god. I just realized this is literally the ending of the original comic cards that inspired the movie "Mars Attack"

Basically, the entire set is 90% martians killing and torturing humans with robots, bugs and soldiers, until at the very end the Earth nations launch a strike at Mars to snipe their HQ and win the war.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

So I encountered a Resistance rumor today that mentioned that Advent banned domestic animals and livestock. Is there ever a reason given for that? Guard dogs sniffing out Faceless or something like that?

[DaedalusMkV]

So I encountered a Resistance rumor today that mentioned that Advent banned domestic animals and livestock. Is there ever a reason given for that? Guard dogs sniffing out Faceless or something like that?

We know that Advent was big on trying to control the food supply, and not super subtle about using that control of the food supply to drug the population. Remember Advent Burgers? Banning livestock is a great way to limit people's availability to non-Advent-approved food sources, and the ban on domestic animals was likely somewhere between a catch-all effort to avoid loopholes and a shallow justification for the whole initiative by claiming it's for health or moral reasons.

It's not impossible that dogs or cats are able to detect Faceless, find burrowed Cryssalids or sense psychic energy or something like that, but we know for sure that Advent was very concerned about livestock and that provides an obvious non-speculative answer.

[Artanis]

We know that Advent was big on trying to control the food supply, and not super subtle about using that control of the food supply to drug the population. Remember Advent Burgers? Banning livestock is a great way to limit people's availability to non-Advent-approved food sources, and the ban on domestic animals was likely somewhere between a catch-all effort to avoid loopholes and a shallow justification for the whole initiative by claiming it's for health or moral reasons.

It's not impossible that dogs or cats are able to detect Faceless, find burrowed Cryssalids or sense psychic energy or something like that, but we know for sure that Advent was very concerned about livestock and that provides an obvious non-speculative answer.

Something something only way to keep the Sectoids from constantly getting distracted with abducting cattle something? :smalltongue:

[Cikomyr2]

Something something only way to keep the Sectoids from constantly getting distracted with abducting cattle something? :smalltongue:

Plot twist: the aliens just want to control 100% of our food supply.

it's not even a means of control. It's just their kink.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Something something only way to keep the Sectoids from constantly getting distracted with abducting cattle something? :smalltongue:

I'd be more worried about the Chrysalids using the livestock for reproductive purposes, personally. Remember that beached whale mission?

[tonberrian]

Just had a Flawless takedown of the Hunter. No one even got shot at. Psions are op. Stasis is op. Domination is op.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Just had a Flawless takedown of the Hunter. No one even got shot at. Psions are op. Stasis is op. Domination is op.

Congrats! I really need to try Psionics out. I didn’t even play around with the Avatar domination on my Rookie run, since I was saving it to try and overwrite mind control on my soldiers, and then found out it didn’t work that way. :smallannoyed:

[Thomas Cardew]

Congrats! I really need to try Psionics out. I didn’t even play around with the Avatar domination on my Rookie run, since I was saving it to try and overwrite mind control on my soldiers, and then found out it didn’t work that way. :smallannoyed:

As an FYI one of the psion abilities 'Solace' gives friendlies immunity to mental effects including mind control in an AOE and will remove the effects if you do a run-by. Psions are great as supplement troops because they basically only cost time to rank once you get the lab up. Plus the massive amounts of AOE damage they can repeatedly throw out.

[tonberrian]

I'm now at the part where I COULD beat xcom 2, i have all the technologies, but i'm waiting so I can get the perfect team together. Jane Kelly's gonna be on it deffo, and she's been soaking in all the covert operations to give her superhuman abilities.

Edit: The absolute LAMEST Avenger Defense ever. I only got two pods to even attack the avenger. Having a reaper scope out the jammer and then shooting it down with squadsight was very easy this time. Makes all the effort i went through to even get the avenger defense turrets seem kinda pointless.

[Thomas Cardew]

I'm now at the part where I COULD beat xcom 2, i have all the technologies, but i'm waiting so I can get the perfect team together. Jane Kelly's gonna be on it deffo, and she's been soaking in all the covert operations to give her superhuman abilities.

Edit: The absolute LAMEST Avenger Defense ever. I only got two pods to even attack the avenger. Having a reaper scope out the jammer and then shooting it down with squadsight was very easy this time. Makes all the effort i went through to even get the avenger defense turrets seem kinda pointless.

UFO Defense or Chosen attack? Cause the defense turrets are completely worth it on the Chosen attacks BECAUSE they get squadsight. You can use them to blow up the statics with no miss chance once you get a reaper out. The explosion usually takes out a sectopod or gatekeeper pod, sometimes it even hits the Chosen.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I have yet to have an Avenger Defense, I keep evading the UFO. Should I not be doing that?

[MCerberus]

I have yet to have an Avenger Defense, I keep evading the UFO. Should I not be doing that?

They're mostly good for putting comical amounts of XP for anyone with a shotgun or squad sight. Wonder if the advent troopers are capable of realizing how bad they messed up when they drop down on a flare and see a guy holding a sword, dressed in alien skulls and a monocle breathing heavily

[tonberrian]

UFO. I defeated the chosen all before they could attack the avenger. Didn't have turrets in time for the first one, either. Getting turrets on a mission where you can collect corpses is actually rather difficult.

[Thomas Cardew]

UFO. I defeated the chosen all before they could attack the avenger. Didn't have turrets in time for the first one, either. Getting turrets on a mission where you can collect corpses is actually rather difficult.

Ah. Depending on the run I sometimes keep them alive to farm for the sweet 5 xcom ability points.

Turrets are a bit luck of the draw, I think the best bet is from train guerrilla missions in the early game.

[tonberrian]

Finally beat XCOM 2 again. Lucking into the resistance order that doubled ap gained was great. Forgot to give all my guys PCSs at the end though. Not that the three avatars put up any threat regardless.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

We know that Advent was big on trying to control the food supply, and not super subtle about using that control of the food supply to drug the population. Remember Advent Burgers? Banning livestock is a great way to limit people's availability to non-Advent-approved food sources, and the ban on domestic animals was likely somewhere between a catch-all effort to avoid loopholes and a shallow justification for the whole initiative by claiming it's for health or moral reasons.

So I found out there was an XCOM 2 prequel novel, and have subsequently bought and finished it, and it actually mentions the livestock ban! Apparently the ‘official’ reason is to prevent the spread of contagion - and
there does actually seem to be some genuine merit to this, because the main characters run into some contaminated animals later in the book.

That said, I’d be surprised if they weren’t ALSO using it to control the food supply.

[Ferreon]

I'm gonna say, I always assumed the (IC reason for the) animal ban was to prevent anyone having uncomfortable realisations regarding the way humans are treated by the aliens.

[warty goblin]

Really if you're a bunch of alien conquerors trying to run an efficient planet for whatever reason, getting rid of the cows is a fantastic move. Humans expend buckets of effort and resources on them because they taste good, which makes sense in an economy run by and for humans. The culinary pleasures of your slave species is not a high priority if you're in the interstellar colonization game.

[Rydiro]

Really if you're a bunch of alien conquerors trying to run an efficient planet for whatever reason, getting rid of the cows is a fantastic move. Humans expend buckets of effort and resources on them because they taste good, which makes sense in an economy run by and for humans. The culinary pleasures of your slave species is not a high priority if you're in the interstellar colonization game.
Cows do convert inedible plants (grass, etc) from poor soil into edible products (milk, meat).

Anyway, anyone played the older XCOM games? Which ones did you like best?

[Glimbur]

Apocalypse was different, real time was easy mode for killing face huggers, and it got a little absurd how strong my troops got with the shield tech armor and a shield in hand and in backpack. Destructible environment + unlimited ammo alien guns was fun. Maybe not difficult once you got rolling but a neat power fantasy at least.

The ship to ship combat was a hassle late game, things you could buy just did not stand up to the stronger aliens and it was hard to make enough ship and ship gun to handle them. But that's xcom for you.

Early game raiding the cultists that worship the aliens was neat.

Never really got psi powers to work out and it felt like androids were OP, humans can get better with experience but androids are good enough and replaceable.

[Gorath99]

Anyway, anyone played the older XCOM games? Which ones did you like best?
The first one (UFO: Enemy Unknown; or X-COM: UFO Defense in the US) was absolutely amazing for its time. Destructible terrain, a 3d interactive globe, amazing intro animation, great art for the science discoveries, atmospheric sounds, semi-random maps, day-night cycle, etc. Super impressive in the early nineties. And just plain fun. If it was available for Android tablet, I'd play it again.
X-COM: Terror from the Deep is essentially a reskin of the original with way higher difficulty. Also a nasty bug that can prevent you from completing the game. Great atmosphere though. I loved exploring the maps and listening to the sound effects.
X-COM: Apocalypse was very ambitious. I'm not a huge fan of the '50s inspired sci-fi look and the aliens are a bit bland. But the city felt alive with various organizations all doing their own thing. The gameplay was great too. Though once you had shields and toxiguns, it did get really easy. Nonetheless, I'd happily play it again if it was ported to Android tablet.
X-COM: Interceptor is a space flight sim. It was just entertaining enough that I finished the game, but it's not great.
X-COM: Enforcer is a terrible 3rd person shooter. Definitely ignore that one.
The Bureau: XCOM Declassified is another 3rd person shooter. This one is OK. Or it was at the time, at least.

[PhoenixPhyre]

The first one (UFO: Enemy Unknown; or X-COM: UFO Defense in the US) was absolutely amazing for its time. Destructible terrain, a 3d interactive globe, amazing intro animation, great art for the science discoveries, atmospheric sounds, semi-random maps, day-night cycle, etc. Super impressive in the early nineties. And just plain fun. If it was available for Android tablet, I'd play it again.
X-COM: Terror from the Deep is essentially a reskin of the original with way higher difficulty. Also a nasty bug that can prevent you from completing the game. Great atmosphere though. I loved exploring the maps and listening to the sound effects.
X-COM: Apocalypse was very ambitious. I'm not a huge fan of the '50s inspired sci-fi look and the aliens are a bit bland. But the city felt alive with various organizations all doing their own thing. The gameplay was great too. Though once you had shields and toxiguns, it did get really easy. Nonetheless, I'd happily play it again if it was ported to Android tablet.
X-COM: Interceptor is a space flight sim. It was just entertaining enough that I finished the game, but it's not great.
X-COM: Enforcer is a terrible 3rd person shooter. Definitely ignore that one.
The Bureau: XCOM Declassified is another 3rd person shooter. This one is OK. Or it was at the time, at least.

I played Terror from the Deep before UFO Defense as a kid. That still to this day holds my personal "longest time playing a single level of a game straight" (not including bathroom breaks and other mandatory interruptions) record--14 hours on the final two stages of the last mission, almost all of that the last stage. Stupid guided torpedo launchers...lots of attempts went like
Turn 1: stage started. Move guys to edge of elevator. End turn.
Enemy turn 1: three guided torpedos come in and blow up half the squad.
Sigh....load save.

The time I finally beat it, I was down to my last 5 shots across the entire team when the boss finally died.

[Forum Explorer]

X-Com UFO Defense was an experience. I went in pretty much blind, and I got rocked on so many missions. Even leaving the ship could be dangerous on some missions. It was very cool though, for all that I had no idea what I was doing.

[Rydiro]

The time I finally beat it, I was down to my last 5 shots across the entire team when the boss finally died.
The thermo mixer swords and scavenging really helped to preserve ammo.

Almost forgot about the space fighter sim. That was a fun little game.

[Rodin]

My favorite thing with TFTD is that it was developed based on the reception of the original game...and many people said the original game was far too easy.

The problem? UFO Defense had a bug where the difficulty would reset to the lowest level every time you reloaded the game. People were playing on Superhuman and kicking the game's ass, so when TFTD released they made Superhuman the new "normal"....and also fixed the bug.

Hence TFTD's notorious difficulty. It was made to challenge expert players of the original game who had unknowingly been playing on the easiest difficulty. :smallbiggrin:

[Rydiro]

Hence TFTD's notorious difficulty. It was made to challenge expert players of the original game who had unknowingly been playing on the easiest difficulty. :smallbiggrin:It isn't that bad. Your soldiers are pretty replacable, as long as you don't loose all of them.

Some missions are too long, and some slightly buggy.

You want to win every mission anyway and as long as you don't move too quickly and don't cluster too much into grenade hits, you're generally fine.

Game gets easier once you unlock the basic techs.

[Advent]

I loved em both and you can always add mods to make it even better!

[Cikomyr2]

I loved em both and you can always add mods to make it even better!

Long War is by far the most engaging to me

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I loved em both and you can always add mods to make it even better!

Tangent, but that user name in this thread is equal parts amusing and appropriate. :smallsmile:

On topic, haven’t tried any mods yet.

[MCerberus]

did Long War of the Chosen ever become a thing?

[Gwynchan'rGwyll]

Aye, LWotC is out! It's mostly a port of LW2 to WotC, I don't know how much they played with new features from what I'm reading...

[GloatingSwine]

It's all about Even Longer War now.

(Terra Invicta, Xcom-as-grand-strategy by the Long War mod team)

[Cikomyr2]

It's all about Even Longer War now.

(Terra Invicta, Xcom-as-grand-strategy by the Long War mod team)

Oh, i saw that a lot on my recommendation queue. How is it?

[Artanis]

Oh, i saw that a lot on my recommendation queue. How is it?

I haven't played it yet, but a YouTube channel I follow did a stream of it: https://youtu.be/fQytiPuuZHw

...yeah, that's all I got. I haven't even gotten around to watching the stream yet :smallredface:

[Cikomyr2]

I haven't played it yet, but a YouTube channel I follow did a stream of it: https://youtu.be/fQytiPuuZHw

...yeah, that's all I got. I haven't even gotten around to watching the stream yet :smallredface:

I dont have patience for let's play unless the gamer is interesting to listen to (huge fave of MATN). Ill take a look, but i may be doomed to buying it for myself, thanks!

[MCerberus]

After being disappointed by a different high-hype attempt to do new xcom but better I would really wait on not just reviews, but in-depth ones considering the genre. However, Firaxis seems to be doing everything it can to not max xcom3 (oh you got a Marvel license that's... just... GREAT) I'll have to give a look

[Zevox]

I'm re-playing XCOM2: War of the Chosen right now, and decided to do something I haven't done before, and make it an Iron Man run. Only the normal difficulty, I'm not looking to be a masochist for the game's RNG, but still. And well, one of the reasons I normally don't is because I make my squad into characters from something else that I'm already attached to - Persona characters, for instance - so I don't want them to die. I still wanted to base them on recognizable characters from something I at least somewhat like, but wanted them to be ones I'd be okay with dying this time, so what I've wound up doing is making my team into Mortal Kombat characters.

So far, I'm just getting into the mid-game (have upgraded to magnetic weapons and the 2nd-tier armor, but still need more money for some of the lesser tier-2 upgrades like pistols), and have had two casualties: Quan Chi, who was cut down by the first Lancer I encountered, and Mileena, who perished because I forgot Mutons could counter melee attacks. (Technically there was a third, one of the squaddies from the starting mission died, but they don't count as far as I'm concerned since I hadn't given them an identity yet.) Had a very close call with Scorpion too, but he was lucky enough to go into "unconscious and bleeding out" status instead of just dying, so I was able to stabilize him and drag his ass to evac. And I've had plenty of other times when I thought I was in deep trouble and going to lose characters, but the AI either missed shots or chose to attack Lost or civilians instead of my soldiers. So thus far, less lethal than I'd been expecting. We'll see if that keeps up.

Edit: Oof, well, it didn't. My first mission with an Andromedon went pretty poorly, and I lost two soldiers: Kitana and Jax. The former is a heavy loss, she was my first Specialist, and best healer, at Captain rank - she died to a single shot from the Andromedon that somehow crit her even though she was in cover. Jax is a more middling loss, only Sergeant rank and from the class I have the most of (Grenadiers), but still rough. He took a big punch from the Andromedon after its first health bar was depleted, then got killed by a Spectre because of its stealth ability that I don't think I've ever seen it use before in any prior play-through. Probably the most pyrrhic victory I've ever had in this game.

[Zevox]

Okay, I'm never playing Iron Man mode in this game again. Just had a mission that, for some reason, the game crashed on me towards the end of, and when I loaded the game back up, my save was gone. Somehow, whatever error that was deleted it, and since Iron Man forced me to have only the one save, now that whole run is kaput. So, screw that, never again. :smallfurious:

[Thomas Cardew]

Okay, I'm never playing Iron Man mode in this game again. Just had a mission that, for some reason, the game crashed on me towards the end of, and when I loaded the game back up, my save was gone. Somehow, whatever error that was deleted it, and since Iron Man forced me to have only the one save, now that whole run is kaput. So, screw that, never again. :smallfurious:

I dislike Iron Man mode in general, the game is way too buggy, the LOS is poorly too communicated, and the UI has to many problems for me to put up with it. I far prefer honest man runs. But on the rare occasions when I decide I want to punish myself or go for a steam/gog achievement, I always manually copy my save to second folder precisely for the BS corrupted save issues. At most I lose a couple hours of progress, which is annoying enough and kills my motivation to play for a day or two. But if I lost a whole campaign with any significant progress, I'm sure I'd walk away for a least week to month.

[Lord Ruby34]

Okay, I'm never playing Iron Man mode in this game again. Just had a mission that, for some reason, the game crashed on me towards the end of, and when I loaded the game back up, my save was gone. Somehow, whatever error that was deleted it, and since Iron Man forced me to have only the one save, now that whole run is kaput. So, screw that, never again. :smallfurious:

I've never had a save deleted on PC, but I live in terror of it. I used to play this game on console, and the save deleting glitch on PS4 was the reason I ended up switching.

[Zevox]

I dislike Iron Man mode in general, the game is way too buggy, the LOS is poorly too communicated, and the UI has to many problems for me to put up with it. I far prefer honest man runs. But on the rare occasions when I decide I want to punish myself or go for a steam/gog achievement, I always manually copy my save to second folder precisely for the BS corrupted save issues. At most I lose a couple hours of progress, which is annoying enough and kills my motivation to play for a day or two. But if I lost a whole campaign with any significant progress, I'm sure I'd walk away for a least week to month.
I'm playing on console, so I don't know if that's even an option - I've never had any reason to look to manually copy a save file before*. But as incredibly irritating as that was, I'm not walking away from the game because of it. I was enjoying the game and want to have a successful run, and I've still got most of a month to kill before Bayonetta 3 hits. This time I'm not using Iron Man though, just going to force myself to never re-load an old save unless something like this happens again (which I assume is what you mean by "honest man run").

*Checking... looks like I do, kind of. I would have to copy it to a USB drive or cloud storage though. And I don't have the former, and generally avoid the latter...


I've never had a save deleted on PC, but I live in terror of it. I used to play this game on console, and the save deleting glitch on PS4 was the reason I ended up switching.
I never had this happen to me before to my recollection, and have always played the game on Playstation. Now that I've had some time to think about, I'm pretty that what happened was that the game crashed while it was auto-saving - a new turn was starting at the time - and the crash happening mid-save is what killed it. Freak accident, just an especially awful one because I had Iron Man turned on.

Granted, that hardly excuses that game has issues with crashing at all. That I have had happen to me before with this game, it just usually isn't anything more than a minor annoyance.

[Zevox]

Well, finished that Iron-Man-but-not-really run. And it went significantly better than the actual Iron Man run I lost to the crash. Only two deaths: my first Templar, Frost, pretty early on (just two days before I was finished researching second-tier armor, which would've saved her...), shot down by a Viper after some unlucky misses left it alive when I wasn't expecting it to be and it nailed her with a crit. And in the mid-game a sharpshooter, Skarlet, who was hunkered down behind a truck when a Muton that also only lived because of some crazy unlucky shots hucked a plasma grenade at her. Almost lost my Skirmisher, Cyrax, to that one too, but he was lucky and survived with two health. So, kind of disappointing, wish I'd been able to finish the more eventful previous run. I'm sure the reason I did better the second time around is because of having the first run as practice, after all.

I'd forgotten just how ridiculously OP you wind up in the end-game of this. Especially with the Chosen Hunter's sniper rifle in the hands of a Colonel Sharpshooter with Death from Above, you can cut through those whole final stages like a hot knife through butter. I didn't have any of the Avatars in the final fight survive for even one round after showing themselves, and few enemies in general did, even when activated like four groups of them at once right at the end of the stage before the Avatars fight.

I'd also forgotten that the game ends on sequel-bait. Did they pay that off at all in Chimaera Squad? I haven't gotten to play it since it hasn't gotten a console release yet.

[MCerberus]

Best part of Chimera squad was the "Mom they're making fun of me at summer camp" vibes between the Viper teammate and Col. Kelly.
They said it was supposed to be a mechanics test bed for the next full game.

[Cikomyr2]

Best part of Chimera squad was the "Mom they're making fun of me at summer camp" vibes between the Viper teammate and Col. Kelly.
They said it was supposed to be a mechanics test bed for the next full game.

Mechanics, character, game pacing, etc...

The chimera model of fight makes for more entertaining multiplayer.