Help me with my hexblade / lore bard

[Thoughtcandle]

Help with hexblade lore bard

Hey everyone, going to be starting a new campaign soon (level 1) and going to start with hexblade and then go lore bard for the rest of the game.

Going to be either 1 level of hexblade or 2.

I have a couple of questions…

1. Other people I’ve seen talk about this build I notice will often go exclusively melee focused with SCAG blade cantrips or ranged with EB + AB.

I like the idea of having versatility, taking booming blade and eldritch blast and using them appropriate to circumstance.

Is this an effective strategy? Or should I focus on one method / play style?

2. Pretty confident I’m gonna take 2 levels of hexblade for AB if I don’t choose to hone in on blade cantrips.

Should I do this at the beginning? Or should I take 1 level hexblade, take lore bard to 6 for first magical secrets, and then take my 2nd level of hexblade to get AB?

3. What 2 first level spells should I focus on? Shield + armor of agythys? What about hex?

If you have some suggestions or feedback, I’d appreciate it. Thank you very much!

[Pixel_Kitsune]

I haven't done it with Bard, but I've done it with a Paladin. In general going both ways is fine, you diversify a bit for options.

I ended up with 3 levels of Hexblade for flavor, but same idea. I took Booming Blade and Eldritch Blast. Ended up with Agonizing Blast and Beguiling Influence, again flavor wise.

For spells I did take Shield, because I knew Paladin (Bard in your case) will provide more 1st level slots that'll fuel it. Otherwise I took utility. Unseen Servant, Comprehend Languages, things that'll help out out of combat.

It has been nice being able to use Booming Blade to lock down opponents in melee, but when we have flyers or other ranged things out comes Eldritch Blast without pause.

[Thoughtcandle]

I haven't done it with Bard, but I've done it with a Paladin. In general going both ways is fine, you diversify a bit for options.

I ended up with 3 levels of Hexblade for flavor, but same idea. I took Booming Blade and Eldritch Blast. Ended up with Agonizing Blast and Beguiling Influence, again flavor wise.

For spells I did take Shield, because I knew Paladin (Bard in your case) will provide more 1st level slots that'll fuel it. Otherwise I took utility. Unseen Servant, Comprehend Languages, things that'll help out out of combat.

It has been nice being able to use Booming Blade to lock down opponents in melee, but when we have flyers or other ranged things out comes Eldritch Blast without pause.

Right on, glad to hear you got equal use out of both of them. I think this is the direction I’m gonna go. I need to be a bit more combat heavy because of our party composition, but think taking both BB and EB gives me plenty of versatility.

EB + AB, dissonant whispers + BB, and will probably take either spiritual weapons or spiritual guardians when magical secrets comes online.

[Pildion]

Help with hexblade lore bard

Hey everyone, going to be starting a new campaign soon (level 1) and going to start with hexblade and then go lore bard for the rest of the game.

Going to be either 1 level of hexblade or 2.

I have a couple of questions…

1. Other people I’ve seen talk about this build I notice will often go exclusively melee focused with SCAG blade cantrips or ranged with EB + AB.

I like the idea of having versatility, taking booming blade and eldritch blast and using them appropriate to circumstance.

Is this an effective strategy? Or should I focus on one method / play style?

2. Pretty confident I’m gonna take 2 levels of hexblade for AB if I don’t choose to hone in on blade cantrips.

Should I do this at the beginning? Or should I take 1 level hexblade, take lore bard to 6 for first magical secrets, and then take my 2nd level of hexblade to get AB?

3. What 2 first level spells should I focus on? Shield + armor of agythys? What about hex?

If you have some suggestions or feedback, I’d appreciate it. Thank you very much!

I would go first, with what do you want to play? a Ranged blaster going EB\AB or a Melee character going Sword Cantrips? Next, what is your party comp going to be? Do you need another melee front liner or would a ranged character be better? After that I think you'll have your answer =p

Both builds, 1>19 or 2>18 are very good, but very different play styles.

1>19 and grab Spirit Guardians \ Spiritual Weapon to become a great front line tank
2>18 grab fireball and another great control spell to become a great controller \ blaster

[Thoughtcandle]

I would go first, with what do you want to play? a Ranged blaster going EB\AB or a Melee character going Sword Cantrips? Next, what is your party comp going to be? Do you need another melee front liner or would a ranged character be better? After that I think you'll have your answer =p

Both builds, 1>19 or 2>18 are very good, but very different play styles.

1>19 and grab Spirit Guardians \ Spiritual Weapon to become a great front line tank
2>18 grab fireball and another great control spell to become a great controller \ blaster

Thanks for your input. I’m leaning toward being capable with both and using what I need circumstantially.

Party comp is small, just myself + an arcane trickster + divination wizard

[Keravath]

I like having both EB+AB and booming blade available for versatility as you mention.

I've played a hexblade 2/lore bard X to level 16 so far and I have enjoyed it a lot. I took the hexblade levels 1-2 and lore bard after that and didn't look back. The hardest level to play was level 6 just before the character got third level spells at level 7. After level 7, I didn't really notice the delay in spells since level 3 spells gives you a lot of good options.

Most of the time, I used EB+AB from range since it will always out damage booming blade - but booming blade was useful if the character was forced into a melee situation as a backup. Most of the time the character concentrates on a spell while using EB+AB for sustained decent damage on turns when they aren't doing anything else.

In cases where damage was the priority they could concentrate on hex to increase it but usually Hypnotic Pattern, Hold Person, Faerie Fire etc was cast the first turn and EB+AB provided something useful to do in between since vicious mockery with its d4 damage simply exists to be mocked itself :).

[Thoughtcandle]

I like having both EB+AB and booming blade available for versatility as you mention.

I've played a hexblade 2/lore bard X to level 16 so far and I have enjoyed it a lot. I took the hexblade levels 1-2 and lore bard after that and didn't look back. The hardest level to play was level 6 just before the character got third level spells at level 7. After level 7, I didn't really notice the delay in spells since level 3 spells gives you a lot of good options.

Most of the time, I used EB+AB from range since it will always out damage booming blade - but booming blade was useful if the character was forced into a melee situation as a backup. Most of the time the character concentrates on a spell while using EB+AB for sustained decent damage on turns when they aren't doing anything else.

In cases where damage was the priority they could concentrate on hex to increase it but usually Hypnotic Pattern, Hold Person, Faerie Fire etc was cast the first turn and EB+AB provided something useful to do in between since vicious mockery with its d4 damage simply exists to be mocked itself :).

Great to hear you had a good time with the character, I’m excited to play it.

You said you picked up hex, worth it?

[windgate]

Have you considered college of swords instead of college of lore?

The key bonus is your sword can now fulfill the "focus/material" component of spells. The subclass damage and defensive bonuses are basically just added gravy.

[Thoughtcandle]

Have you considered college of swords instead of college of lore?

The key bonus is your sword can now fulfill the "focus/material" component of spells. The subclass damage and defensive bonuses are basically just added gravy.

I did consider it but I feel like magical secrets is too good to pass up

[tiornys]

I think I'd do Hexblade 1 --> Lore 6 and then decide if I wanted the invocations. If Agonizing Blast + Repelling Blast looks like it will be a major value add (e.g. after level 3 if the Wizard casts Web a bunch), maybe take the 2nd Hexblade level sooner. Otherwise get to short rest inspiration dice as fast as possible.

[Keravath]

Great to hear you had a good time with the character, I’m excited to play it.

You said you picked up hex, worth it?

Yes. Taking hex as one of the warlock spells was worthwhile (the shield spell was also important). The character has lots of 1st level slots to use so tossing out hex when they didn't have anything else worth concentrating on proved very handy.

In addition, hex can be particularly useful for the rider disadvantage effect on skill checks. Hexing a targets strength gives them disadvantage on opposed grapple checks since they use athletics to grapple but you can use athletics or acrobatics to escape. Hexing wisdom can be useful if trying to deceive an NPC and the check is opposed by insight or if a guard is searching - disadvantage on perception checks to notice the party could be useful.

Depending on the game, hex has some creative uses in addition to the d6 damage which pairs really well with EB+AB and the multiple attacks.

Anyway, hex isn't a go to spell by any means but there were times when spells weren't doing anything and extra damage was appreciated. eg fighting demons or devils with magic resistance giving them advantage on saves vs spells. When faced with these sorts of opponents, a bardic instrument to cancel the advantage can be useful but otherwise you need to use spells to boost the party or just maximize your damage - for which hex is quite useful.

P.S. The toughest decision with the character is picking magical secrets :) ... I liked fireball and counterspell since the party I was in often didn't have a wizard and some AoE damage and ability to cancel spells was useful but there are a lot of good choices.

[RogueJK]

Party comp is small, just myself + an arcane trickster + divination wizard

This is important, because it changes my answer to a decent extent.

As it stands you're the party frontliner. As a result, I'd recommend building towards melee. EB is a great backup, since even melee-centric characters will find themselves fighting at range at times, but I'd steer clear of trying to be equally good at both, and rather focus on being better at melee.

While a Hexbard Frontliner would normally call for a Swords Bard, it is still workable with a Lore Bard, since it sounds like you're pretty firm on that. And Lore Bard comes in extra handy here, considering that you're going to have to fill the role of party healer/status remover. So that will need to be taken into consideration as well.

I'd recommend skipping the Hex spell. Most of the time you'll already have other uses for your Concentration. And with only one melee attack - and by necessity being primarily a melee character - Hex won't add significant damage.


I do think there are some key things to grab:

1) Shield, Booming Blade, and Eldritch Blast from Hexblade. A big defensive boost (especially with your short rest recharge Pact slot), a melee cantrip that can also make you "sticky"/"tanky" (especially when combined with Warcaster as discussed below), plus a significantly better ranged option than Bards usually get.

2) Healer-type spells from Bard. Healing Word at a minimum as an in-combat healing spell, plus Lesser Restoration, and eventually Greater Restoration. These are all Bard spells.

3) Key Magical Secrets picks. Now, the usual recommendations for a Lore Bard's Magical Secrets at Bard 6 are stuff like Counterspell, Find Steed, or Fireball. However, in such a small party, you're going to have to rely on the Wizard for blasting and counterspelling. You don't have enough party members to afford much overlap in capabilities. You'll need to strategically utilize your Magical Secrets to cover needs that the party doesn't otherwise have. I'd recommend picking up Revivify for one of your Bard 6 picks, for use when one of your allies goes down and you can't Healing Word them back up. For your 2nd Bard 6 pick, I'd recommend either Spirit Guardians or Spiritual Weapon, leaning towards the latter. You'll only ever have one attack (luckily bolstered by Booming Blade), so this gets you a 2nd attack each turn, which is especially nice when your first attack misses. And more importantly, it doesn't require Concentration. Spirit Guardians is a great spell, but Bards already have many other good uses for their Concentration, and the good Concentration options only grow exponentially as your gain more Bard levels. So that's a major factor here.

4) Warcaster feat. Unlike Swords Bards, Lore Bards can't use their weapon as a spellcasting focus. (And that spell focus option wouldn't work with Warlock spells anyway...) Warcaster removes that spell components issue. It also boosts your Concentration. And most importantly, it allows you to make Booming Blade Opportunity Attacks, to dissuade/punish enemies that try to get past you to attack your two squishier party members, thus allowing you to be a more effective tank.

5) Inspiring Leader feat. This feat is a great way to help mitigate not having a dedicated healer in the party. Inspiring Leader generates a huge amount of Temp HP for the party throughout the day, providing a nice buffer each short/long rest before healing becomes needed. As a result, this means you won't be needing to cast Armor of Agathys most combats once you have Inspiring Leader, which helps conserve your Bard spell slots, but AoA still remains a good option to keep in your back pocket for use when heading into a big fight without a chance for a short rest and your Inspiring Leader Temp HP buffer is already exhausted.


Therefore, I'd recommend starting with a Custom Lineage race with 17 CHA/14 CON/14 DEX, taking Warcaster at Level 1, and then planning for a CHA half-feat like Fey Touched/Skill Expert/Telepathic at Bard 4 and Inspiring Leader at Bard 8. Wear medium armor, and use a longsword/warhammer/battleaxe and a shield. Take Booming Blade and Eldritch Blast as your two Warlock cantrips, and take Shield and Armor of Agathys as your two Warlock spells.

After Level 1, I'd go straight Lore Bard from there, sticking with Hexblade 1/Lore Bard X for the character's career. The Agonizing Blast invocation isn't as necessary on a Hexbard who's primarily melee-focused and only relying on EB as a ranged backup, and you definitely want to get to your Bard spells, abilities, and Magical Secrets ASAP.

[tiornys]

I disagree. I don't think anyone in that party wants to be "the front line". That party wants to focus on control and kite tactics and avoid melee as much as possible. All of them are capable enough of dealing with being in melee, and they should have plans for what to do when stuck in melee, but none of them should have melee as their go-to option.

[Thoughtcandle]

Yes. Taking hex as one of the warlock spells was worthwhile (the shield spell was also important). The character has lots of 1st level slots to use so tossing out hex when they didn't have anything else worth concentrating on proved very handy.

In addition, hex can be particularly useful for the rider disadvantage effect on skill checks. Hexing a targets strength gives them disadvantage on opposed grapple checks since they use athletics to grapple but you can use athletics or acrobatics to escape. Hexing wisdom can be useful if trying to deceive an NPC and the check is opposed by insight or if a guard is searching - disadvantage on perception checks to notice the party could be useful.

Depending on the game, hex has some creative uses in addition to the d6 damage which pairs really well with EB+AB and the multiple attacks.

Anyway, hex isn't a go to spell by any means but there were times when spells weren't doing anything and extra damage was appreciated. eg fighting demons or devils with magic resistance giving them advantage on saves vs spells. When faced with these sorts of opponents, a bardic instrument to cancel the advantage can be useful but otherwise you need to use spells to boost the party or just maximize your damage - for which hex is quite useful.

P.S. The toughest decision with the character is picking magical secrets :) ... I liked fireball and counterspell since the party I was in often didn't have a wizard and some AoE damage and ability to cancel spells was useful but there are a lot of good choices.

A lot of great exposition here, thank you for such a deep dive - gives me a lot to think about in relation to this spell in particular.


This is important, because it changes my answer to a decent extent.

As it stands you're the party frontliner. As a result, I'd recommend building towards melee. EB is a great backup, since even melee-centric characters will find themselves fighting at range at times, but I'd steer clear of trying to be equally good at both, and rather focus on being better at melee.

While a Hexbard Frontliner would normally call for a Swords Bard, it is still workable with a Lore Bard, since it sounds like you're pretty firm on that. And Lore Bard comes in extra handy here, considering that you're going to have to fill the role of party healer/status remover. So that will need to be taken into consideration as well.

I'd recommend skipping the Hex spell. Most of the time you'll already have other uses for your Concentration. And with only one melee attack - and by necessity being primarily a melee character - Hex won't add significant damage.


I do think there are some key things to grab:

1) Shield, Booming Blade, and Eldritch Blast from Hexblade. A big defensive boost (especially with your short rest recharge Pact slot), a melee cantrip that can also make you "sticky"/"tanky" (especially when combined with Warcaster as discussed below), plus a significantly better ranged option than Bards usually get.

2) Healer-type spells from Bard. Healing Word at a minimum as an in-combat healing spell, plus Lesser Restoration, and eventually Greater Restoration. These are all Bard spells.

3) Key Magical Secrets picks. Now, the usual recommendations for a Lore Bard's Magical Secrets at Bard 6 are stuff like Counterspell, Find Steed, or Fireball. However, in such a small party, you're going to have to rely on the Wizard for blasting and counterspelling. You don't have enough party members to afford much overlap in capabilities. You'll need to strategically utilize your Magical Secrets to cover needs that the party doesn't otherwise have. I'd recommend picking up Revivify for one of your Bard 6 picks, for use when one of your allies goes down and you can't Healing Word them back up. For your 2nd Bard 6 pick, I'd recommend either Spirit Guardians or Spiritual Weapon, leaning towards the latter. You'll only ever have one attack (luckily bolstered by Booming Blade), so this gets you a 2nd attack each turn, which is especially nice when your first attack misses. And more importantly, it doesn't require Concentration. Spirit Guardians is a great spell, but Bards already have many other good uses for their Concentration, and the good Concentration options only grow exponentially as your gain more Bard levels. So that's a major factor here.

4) Warcaster feat. Unlike Swords Bards, Lore Bards can't use their weapon as a spellcasting focus. (And that spell focus option wouldn't work with Warlock spells anyway...) Warcaster removes that spell components issue. It also boosts your Concentration. And most importantly, it allows you to make Booming Blade Opportunity Attacks, to dissuade/punish enemies that try to get past you to attack your two squishier party members, thus allowing you to be a more effective tank.

5) Inspiring Leader feat. This feat is a great way to help mitigate not having a dedicated healer in the party. Inspiring Leader generates a huge amount of Temp HP for the party throughout the day, providing a nice buffer each short/long rest before healing becomes needed. As a result, this means you won't be needing to cast Armor of Agathys most combats once you have Inspiring Leader, which helps conserve your Bard spell slots, but AoA still remains a good option to keep in your back pocket for use when heading into a big fight without a chance for a short rest and your Inspiring Leader Temp HP buffer is already exhausted.


Therefore, I'd recommend starting with a Custom Lineage race with 17 CHA/14 CON/14 DEX, taking Warcaster at Level 1, and then planning for a CHA half-feat like Fey Touched/Skill Expert/Telepathic at Bard 4 and Inspiring Leader at Bard 8. Wear medium armor, and use a longsword/warhammer/battleaxe and a shield. Take Booming Blade and Eldritch Blast as your two Warlock cantrips, and take Shield and Armor of Agathys as your two Warlock spells.

After Level 1, I'd go straight Lore Bard from there, sticking with Hexblade 1/Lore Bard X for the character's career. The Agonizing Blast invocation isn't as necessary on a Hexbard who's primarily melee-focused and only relying on EB as a ranged backup, and you definitely want to get to your Bard spells, abilities, and Magical Secrets ASAP.

This is massively, massively helpful - the answer I’ve been looking for in my research. Thank you for going so in depth here, gives me some excellent guidelines to work with.


I disagree. I don't think anyone in that party wants to be "the front line". That party wants to focus on control and kite tactics and avoid melee as much as possible. All of them are capable enough of dealing with being in melee, and they should have plans for what to do when stuck in melee, but none of them should have melee as their go-to option.

You have a good point, but I still think having at least some frontline / melee capability is important, and like RogueJK said above, I’ll be predominantly filling that role - so want to be equipped accordingly.

Being said, any changes or alternate recommendations you’d make?

[tiornys]

Well honestly, it depends a lot on the other players and the DM. If the concept of a front line is important to the other players, and the DM plays along with it, then go ahead and lean into the role. Part of my objection to the idea is that you can't really be a "front liner" in 5e the way you can in other editions of the game; you just don't exert enough control on the battlefield with one reaction, even if that reaction is a War Caster enhanced Booming Blade (or Sentinel enhanced full movement denial). If the DM plays monsters with any tactical acumen, you won't be able to stop them from getting to the "squishy" characters (edit: or rather, you can stop them with control spells a lot better than you can stop them by being a melee presence).

What I'd recommend: at L1 take Hexblade with Shield and Wrathful Smite. Wrathful Smite is control that potentially can stop an enemy from getting past you, Shield needs no explanation. Agreed with Booming Blade and Eldritch Blast. Then go Bard for the next level or two, and see how fights play out, get a feel for how the DM and the other players play. If the rogue is relying on a melee buddy for advantage, the wizard puts no investment into personal defenses, and the DM has monsters treating you and the rogue like a strong fence, go full melee. If everyone is taking care of their personal defenses and the party seems amenable to skirmisher tactics, grab a 2nd Warlock level for Agonizing+Repelling Blasts so your default action is control + damage. If the party and the DM are on different pages (and there isn't a TPK) it might be good to have a discussion about how to play so everyone is having fun (if the DM is tactical and the party isn't this can even be an in-character discussion).

As for needing a front line... not really, especially past the first few levels. Once you and/or the Wizard have summoning spells and/or Polymorph, you can simply create meat shields as necessary. At levels 1-2 your party already has pretty good tools to slow down melee enemies like Sleep, Wrathful Smite, Grease, caltrops/ball bearings spread by unseen servants/familiars. Web alone should cover levels 3-5, and then the Wizard has lots of Summon options, you could grab Conjure Animals as a magical secret, and you'll keep gaining access to more and more potent move restriction spells like Plant Growth, Sleet Storm, Wall of Fire/Ice/Force/Stone, Transmute Rock, etc.

[RogueJK]

Wrathful Smite is fine at early levels, just keep in mind that it too is a Concentration spell. And if you're only taking 1 Warlock level, you won't have the opportunity to swap it out later. So you'll reach a point after the first few levels where you have better use for your Concentration, and you'll most often open a fight with something else like Suggestion, Heat Metal, Hypnotic Pattern, Polymorph, Animate Objects, a Magical Secrets summoning spell, etc., which you intend to hold Concentration on for the duration of that combat. At that point, Wrathful Smite will sit unused, without the ability to swap it out without taking another Warlock level.

Whereas Armor of Agathys is both non-Concentration and long duration, and serves a purpose at early levels before Inspiring Leader comes online as well as remaining occasionally useful even afterwards.

[Thoughtcandle]

Well honestly, it depends a lot on the other players and the DM. If the concept of a front line is important to the other players, and the DM plays along with it, then go ahead and lean into the role. Part of my objection to the idea is that you can't really be a "front liner" in 5e the way you can in other editions of the game; you just don't exert enough control on the battlefield with one reaction, even if that reaction is a War Caster enhanced Booming Blade (or Sentinel enhanced full movement denial). If the DM plays monsters with any tactical acumen, you won't be able to stop them from getting to the "squishy" characters (edit: or rather, you can stop them with control spells a lot better than you can stop them by being a melee presence).

What I'd recommend: at L1 take Hexblade with Shield and Wrathful Smite. Wrathful Smite is control that potentially can stop an enemy from getting past you, Shield needs no explanation. Agreed with Booming Blade and Eldritch Blast. Then go Bard for the next level or two, and see how fights play out, get a feel for how the DM and the other players play. If the rogue is relying on a melee buddy for advantage, the wizard puts no investment into personal defenses, and the DM has monsters treating you and the rogue like a strong fence, go full melee. If everyone is taking care of their personal defenses and the party seems amenable to skirmisher tactics, grab a 2nd Warlock level for Agonizing+Repelling Blasts so your default action is control + damage. If the party and the DM are on different pages (and there isn't a TPK) it might be good to have a discussion about how to play so everyone is having fun (if the DM is tactical and the party isn't this can even be an in-character discussion).

As for needing a front line... not really, especially past the first few levels. Once you and/or the Wizard have summoning spells and/or Polymorph, you can simply create meat shields as necessary. At levels 1-2 your party already has pretty good tools to slow down melee enemies like Sleep, Wrathful Smite, Grease, caltrops/ball bearings spread by unseen servants/familiars. Web alone should cover levels 3-5, and then the Wizard has lots of Summon options, you could grab Conjure Animals as a magical secret, and you'll keep gaining access to more and more potent move restriction spells like Plant Growth, Sleet Storm, Wall of Fire/Ice/Force/Stone, Transmute Rock, etc.

Some good recs here as well, although I’m most likely going to skip wrathful smite - don’t think it holds up long enough to warrant it.


Wrathful Smite is fine at early levels, just keep in mind that it too is a Concentration spell. And if you're only taking 1 Warlock level, you won't have the opportunity to swap it out later. So you'll reach a point after the first few levels where you have better use for your Concentration, and you'll most often open a fight with something else like Suggestion, Heat Metal, Hypnotic Pattern, Polymorph, Animate Objects, a Magical Secrets summoning spell, etc., which you intend to hold Concentration on for the duration of that combat. At that point, Wrathful Smite will sit unused, without the ability to swap it out without taking another Warlock level.

Whereas Armor of Agathys is both non-Concentration and long duration, and serves a purpose at early levels before Inspiring Leader comes online as well as remaining occasionally useful even afterwards.

Yeah, I said as much in the above reply. Armor of Agathys seems like the better pick to me as well.

[Kenny_Snoggins]

Part comp makes me really feel like you need to go swords bard. The Rouge won't even be able to get sneak attack off very often if you go Lore bard because you'll either be too flimsy to stand in the front line, have nothing to do in the front line, or burn every spell slot on shield and every BI on cutting words. I don't think you'll have much fun.

Swords bard gives you extra attack, with a lot of ways to get a third attack to proc hex and the curse if you want. You can get to 19AC pretty easy and with flourishes jack that up to 24 ish pretty easily also, and can hit the emergency button to go to 29 AC if you need to.

Spirit guardians and either find steed or aura of vitality would be the regular secrets picks for a Lore bard, but you are not going to be able to maintain concentration on anything in that party comp so almost all the regular bard spells go out the window.

Go swords, two levels of warlock, one early and one after level 6 bard, and you can be a pretty solid tank with mirror image, defensive flourish, shield, etc. You can also do very solid at will damage in melee, or at range. You won't have invested in skills so much and will be focused really only on charisma skills which is good, because your Rogue and wizard can cover the other areas well and you can't afford redundancy.

I would start with bb and eb, then at level 7 drop bb for mind sliver.

[Thoughtcandle]

Part comp makes me really feel like you need to go swords bard. The Rouge won't even be able to get sneak attack off very often if you go Lore bard because you'll either be too flimsy to stand in the front line, have nothing to do in the front line, or burn every spell slot on shield and every BI on cutting words. I don't think you'll have much fun.

Swords bard gives you extra attack, with a lot of ways to get a third attack to proc hex and the curse if you want. You can get to 19AC pretty easy and with flourishes jack that up to 24 ish pretty easily also, and can hit the emergency button to go to 29 AC if you need to.

Spirit guardians and either find steed or aura of vitality would be the regular secrets picks for a Lore bard, but you are not going to be able to maintain concentration on anything in that party comp so almost all the regular bard spells go out the window.

Go swords, two levels of warlock, one early and one after level 6 bard, and you can be a pretty solid tank with mirror image, defensive flourish, shield, etc. You can also do very solid at will damage in melee, or at range. You won't have invested in skills so much and will be focused really only on charisma skills which is good, because your Rogue and wizard can cover the other areas well and you can't afford redundancy.

I would start with bb and eb, then at level 7 drop bb for mind sliver.

You think this would be the case even with magical secrets?

Out of curiosity, what class would you recommend with this party composition?

[Kenny_Snoggins]

Yeah even with magic secrets. What can you offer the party at level 6 with magic secrets that they need, don't already have, and doesn't require concentration since you are going to have a hell of a time keeping concentration up in the first place? Not much unfortunately.

I think you can make it work with a swords bard, and you'll still get magic secrets at a level where the secrets are much more impactful than third. If you want to step away from Bard, a sorcadin or hexadin might be good calls.

[Thoughtcandle]

Yeah even with magic secrets. What can you offer the party at level 6 with magic secrets that they need, don't already have, and doesn't require concentration since you are going to have a hell of a time keeping concentration up in the first place? Not much unfortunately.

I think you can make it work with a swords bard, and you'll still get magic secrets at a level where the secrets are much more impactful than third. If you want to step away from Bard, a sorcadin or hexadin might be good calls.

Thanks for your input, considering a sorlock as well

[RogueJK]

Yeah even with magic secrets. What can you offer the party at level 6 with magic secrets that they need, don't already have, and doesn't require concentration since you are going to have a hell of a time keeping concentration up in the first place?

Revivify is the obvious one. Having the capability to raise a dead party member is a near-necessity.

There are other good options that would be great to have, but not absolutely needed.

As I noted above, Spiritual Weapon is a solid 2nd pick, to add additional damage output for the small party through a non-Concentration extra attack.

Find Steed is also a solid choice for added mobility, if you're planning for the entire party to collaboratively focus on kiting and ranged fighting rather than trying to engage in melee with 1 character and some summoned meat shields.

[Thoughtcandle]

I think I'd do Hexblade 1 --> Lore 6 and then decide if I wanted the invocations. If Agonizing Blast + Repelling Blast looks like it will be a major value add (e.g. after level 3 if the Wizard casts Web a bunch), maybe take the 2nd Hexblade level sooner. Otherwise get to short rest inspiration dice as fast as possible.

This is exactly what I’m going to do, feels like the best approach