Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXI

[The Viscount]

Welcome to Optimization Stadium, the field of combat for our storied competition. Here the contestants will be transmuting lead into gold as we showcase the overlooked, underused, weird, wild, and wonky prestige classes.

In the world of D&D, it's a well-worn joke that dragons are legendarily fecund. It seems that everyone and their grandmother has at least a little bit of draconic blood, and this ingredient is a perfect example. Crack open Dragon Magic and sketch our your family tree, this time we're cooking with Dragon Descendant!

Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D 3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

Contestants: You will need to present a full 20-level build for your entry. Also required is a rundown of how your build works at lower levels, to demonstrate that it is a functional character that could be played from 1-20 in a real game. Traditionally contestants give "snapshots" of tactics and abilities at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20. The purpose of these snapshots is not just to showcase your use of the SI, it is to demonstrate that your character is playable at every level. For this reason, it's still worth giving a snapshot before you have entered the SI.

Menu: The "special ingredient" can be drawn from any legal source. Originally, the plan was to mostly use Core and Completes, but that was a long time ago, and we've started running out of interesting classes to use if we restrict ourselves to those.

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Here's a guide to most of what has and hasn't been updated. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x) Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.
NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 13:59 GMT on Sunday, August 28th, 2022 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, The Viscount. You may submit build by email if it is too large for a single PM. Please put the name of your build in the subject line of your PM. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 13:59 GMT on Monday, September 12th, 2022 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept. Please note the following: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using conflicting setting material may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry. (A fillable, pre-formatted version found here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BG0-5sq4dL9Ooh7-QfXuyHzO4rXSz-CRcj29t6BeUVE/edit#gid=0))NAME OF ENTRY


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities



Code immediately below (spoiler).

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities



For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


Code immediately below (spoiler)Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-



For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM. If there are no votes, Honorable Mention will go to the chairman's favorite build.

Past Competitions

Courtesy of some wonderful volunteers, there is a handy-dandy spreadsheet guide to all previous builds here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oyjVU5JmeCnC8YTMqDArDqE5PszHl0Ysadz630kuTGk/edit?ts=59a4835f#gid=0). PM if you'd like to contribute to the spreadsheet for access.

Iron Chef I: Entropomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142470)
Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146583)
Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148584)
Iron Chef IV: Stonelord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150595)
Iron Chef V: War Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152543)
Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156876)
Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158633)
Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160266)
Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162702)
Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164381)
Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166539)
Iron Chef XII: War Mind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9426386)
Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172233)
Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174434)
Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176049)
Iron Chef XVI: Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178202)
Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182492)
Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186097)
Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190607)
Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10976416)
Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198921)
Iron Chef XXII: Dervish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206576)
Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210071)
Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214198)
Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217441)
Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220956)
Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224008)
Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227304)
Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229688)
Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233346)
Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236908)
Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239786)
Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243052)
Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246072)
Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249542)
Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252923)
Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?255215-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XXXVII)
Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255215)
Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260333)
Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263173)
Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266709)
Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270196)
Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274122)
Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279116)
Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15216595)
Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287314)
Iron Chef XLVII: Cold Iron Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291294)
Iron Chef XLVIII: Shadow Sun Ninja (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297327)
Iron Chef XLIX: Thrall of Orcus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302487)
Iron Chef L: Corrupt Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307823)
Iron Chef LI: Black Flame Zealot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312773)
Iron Chef LII: Anointed Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317934)
Iron Chef LIII: Zerth Cenobite (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325164)
Iron Chef LIV: Osteomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330890)
Iron Chef LV: Mountebank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?336373-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LV)
Iron Chef LVI: Dwarven Defender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342807-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVI)
Iron Chef LVII: Darkrunner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?349040-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVII)
Iron Chef LVIII: Spellsword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?357412-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVIII)
Iron Chef LIX: Fleet Runner of Ehlonna (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?364667-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LIX)
Iron Chef LX: Lasher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?371835-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX)
Iron Chef LX(II): Acolyte of the Ego (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372145-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX)
Iron Chef LXII: Dungeon Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376810-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXII)
Iron Chef LXIII: Witchborn Binder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?382632-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIII)
Iron Chef LXIV: Slime Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387166-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIV)
Iron Chef LXV: Thunder Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?394981-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXV)
Iron Chef LXVI: Dwarven Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400810-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXVI)
Irogn Chef LXVII: Gnome Giant Slayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?406613-Irogn-Chef-Optimisatiogn-Challegnge-ign-the-Playgrougnd-LXVII)
Iron Chef LXVIII: Fang of Lolth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412530-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXVIII)
Iron Chef LXIX: Shiba Protector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?420165-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIX)
Iron Chef LXX: Order of the Bow Initiate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?425634-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXX)
Iron Chef LXXI: Silver Key (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?431484-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXI)
Iron Chef LXXII: Spellfire Channeler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439020-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXII)
Iron Chef LXXIII: Flux Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448596-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIII)
Iron Chef LXXIV: Crinti Shadow Marauder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?458711-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIV)
Iron Chef LXXV: Thief of Life (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472831-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXV)
Iron Chef LXXVI: Legacy Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477153-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXVI)
Iron Chef LXXVII: Great Rift Skyguard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?482249-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXVII)
Iron Chef LXVIII: Risen Martyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?487560-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXVIII)
Iron Chef LXXIX: Black Blood Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?492923-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIX)
Iron Chef LXXX: Master of Many Forms (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?498359-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXX)
Iron Chef LXXXI: Serene Guardian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502666-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXI)
Iron Chef LXXXII: Elocator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?505762-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXII)
Iron Chef LXXXIII: Winterhaunt of Iboorighu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?510581-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXIII)
Iron Chef LXXXIV: Waverider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514631-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXIV)
Iron Chef LXXXV: Astral Dancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?519296-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXV)
Iron Chef LXXXVI: Twisted Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?525401-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXVI)
Iron Chef LXXXVII: Shadowsmith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?528361-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXVII)
Iron Chef LXXXVIII: Arboreal Guardian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?533367-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXVIII)
Iron Chef LXXXIX: Thrall of Demogorgon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?536247-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXIX)
Iron Chef XC: Bloodstorm Blade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?542380-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XC)
Iron Chef XCI: Fatemaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?550203-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCI)
Iron Chef XCII: Eye of the Xanathar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?556092-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCII)
Iron Chef XCIII: Hoardstealer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?560330-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCIII)
Iron Chef XCIV: Doomlord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?564804-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCIV)
Iron Chef XCV: Gnomish Artificer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?571065-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCV)
Iron Chef XCVI: Oozemaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?576075-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCVI)
Iron Chef XCVII: Aerial Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?579553-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCVII)
Iron Chef XCVIII: Visionary Seeker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?583331-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCVIII)
Iron Chef XCIX: Life Eater (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?589964-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCIX)
Iron Chef C: Swiftblade (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?601292-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-C)

Iron Chef CI: Night Mask Deathbringer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?610308-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CI)
Iron Chef CII: Blade Dancer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?613031-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CII)
Iron Chef CIII: Psion Uncarnate (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?614461-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CIII)
Iron Chef CIV: Atavist (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?615697-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CIV)
Iron Chev CV: Primeval (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?618136-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CV)
Iron Chef CVI: Disciple of Mammon (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?620730-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CVI)
Iron Chef CVII: Insidious Corruptor (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?622560-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CVII)
Iron Chef CVIII: Crimson Scourge (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624099-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CVIII)
Iron Chef CIX: Tattooed Monk (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?626458-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CIX)
Iron Chef CX: Rage Mage (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?628809-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CX)
Iron Chef CXI: Watch Detective (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?630421-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CXI)
Iron Chef CXII: Spinemeld Warrior (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?632291-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CXII)
Iron Chef CXIII: Celebrant of Sharess (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?633637-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CXIII)
Iron Chef CXIV: Thayan Gladiator (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?635212-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CXIV)
Iron Chef CXV: Shining Blade of Heironeous (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?637097-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CXV)
Iron Chef CXVI: Peregrine Runner (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?638522-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CXVI)
Iron Chef CXVII: Imaskari Vengeance Taker (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?640260-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CXVII)
Iron Chef CXVII: Siren (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?641848-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CXVIII)
Iron Chef CXIX: Arcane Duelist (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?645786-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CXIX)
Iron Chef CXX: Berserk (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?646933-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CXX)

[The Viscount]

FAQ:
Q: What's this even about?
A: I'm glad you asked, actually... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15415117&postcount=1)

Q: Is Dragon Compendium Allowed?
A: Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

Q: What about 3.0 materials?
A: 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

Q: Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources?
A: The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

Q: What about online sources in general?
A: If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

Q: Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana?
A: A few specific things are explicitly acceptable. The elemental/environmental races, spelltouched feats, variant character classes, specialist wizard variants, whirling frenzy, aspect of nature, and racial paragon classes are legal. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. In a similar vein, LA buyoff and fractional BAB are also disallowed. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

Q: What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean?
A: As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

Q: What's the minimum score in a category?
A: Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirement for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

Q: Creatures and templates with no listed LA are playable, right?
A: No. No listed LA is equivalent to LA: -. It is not suitable for PCs. If you use it, expect judges to look extremely disfavorably on it.

Q: So what's the deal with equipment, anyway?
A: There is no official policy on how much equipment you should list. Historically, judges have frowned upon "item dependent" builds, but unfortunately the definition of that has been applied to mean anything from builds that don't function if you remove one very specific item, to builds that so much as mention a particular weapon. Builds that don't list gear should be assumed to buy useful generics - items to boost their primary stats, cloaks of resistance, appropriate magical weapons and armor, and so forth. If a build would find particular items useful, they should be listed, but experience suggests that the more generic you keep them, the more favorably judges are likely to look upon them, as a build being shut down because the Thundering Bagpipes of Urist McTrumpetbritches were unavailable is considered a weakness. Similarly, requiring items in order to be able to qualify for things tends to be frowned upon.

Q: Do you have any other rules and guidelines on how to judge?
A: We do, actually, designed to try and avoid unpleasantness we've encountered in past contests. The things we've come up with to avoid repeating this are given below.

One Mistake, One Penalty

Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.

Non-exhaustive list of examples:

Skills

Allowed:

Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs


Not allowed:

Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation



Prereqs

Allowed:

Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)


Not Allowed:

"Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes



Other general things that are no longer allowed:

Penalizing because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalize if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.
Please don't base your scores off the scores of another judge.


Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.

Q: Do you have any contest house rules or clarifications to ambiguous rules?
A: Some that have come up in previous contests and needed answers to:

All creatures are proficient with any natural weapons they may have or acquire.
Bonus feats that are granted even if you do not meet the prerequisites do not require you to meet the prerequisites in order to use.
Able Learner's benefit applies to the level you take it.
Weapons from soulmelds are considered to be magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming DR.
Unarmed Swordsage grants Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1.
Not finishing Savage Progression is subject to a penalty to Elegance
One dispute per entry. Submit disputes by PM to the Chair.
Ghostwalk ghost is banned
Gold, silver, and bronze are awarded regardless of ties (e.g., 2 silvers does not preclude bronze)
Spelltouched feats are legal and can be taken just like any other feat when you meet the prerequisites and have the feat slot available.

Q: Can I submit more than one entry?
A: You may submit up to two entries into a given competition.

Q: When does rampaging ancestor let your unarmed strikes count as magic and chaotic?
A: 1st level.

Q: Does subtle ancestor saying you make sneak attacks "as a rogue of your dragon descendant level" mean that the 2d6 damage increases?
A: No. You are treated as a rogue of your level for improved uncanny dodge, but the damage does not increase.

[H_H_F_F]

...Okay. This has some meat. I'll probably cook for this round, too.

Also, lol at that 8th level feature. Gods damn.

[AvatarVecna]

So I can't help but notice this ingredient has a...diversity issue. :smalltongue:

[The Viscount]

So I can't help but notice this ingredient has a...diversity issue. :smalltongue:

There's more than one way into this class, if that's what you mean.

[AvatarVecna]

There's more than one way into this class, if that's what you mean.

You are technically correct, but only barely, and you know it. :smalltongue:

[Venger]

In to cook. What a weird class.

[Beni-Kujaku]

I first thought this was about Dragon Ascendant, and I wonder if it would be possible to have an epic round someday, maybe around April 1st. This could be great.


Also, finally a PrC with a great capstone! It's been a while!

[loky1109]

Also, finally a PrC with a great capstone! It's been a while!
Great, not great, there is it, that's enough in this time!

[Paragon]

Might be splitting hairs here but can I get a confirmation that if you add another one of those
"A [insert PrC]'s class levels stack with his monk levels for determining his unarmed damage, AC bonus, and unarmored speed bonus." the whole monk + dragon ascendant + prc levels stack for the purpose of it ?

The RAW reading imho is that you get 2 pools of monk + dragon descendant on the one side and monk + PrC on the other and that's just unnervingly WotC's style.

[The Viscount]

Might be splitting hairs here but can I get a confirmation that if you add another one of those
"A [insert PrC]'s class levels stack with his monk levels for determining his unarmed damage, AC bonus, and unarmored speed bonus." the whole monk + dragon ascendant + prc levels stack for the purpose of it ?

The RAW reading imho is that you get 2 pools of monk + dragon descendant on the one side and monk + PrC on the other and that's just unnervingly WotC's style.

Any and all of these go to one stack. Monk + dragon ascendant + any other prc.

Clarified a few other things in the FAQ.

[Zaq]

Welp, don't like that FAQ answer. I'll accept it. But I don't like it.

This looks like a hard nut to crack. I'll have to give it some real thought.

Real pity that [REDACTED] is more or less entirely obviated by [REDACTED]...

[H_H_F_F]

I've begun playing around with an idea in my head, but it just seems... Basic.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

This is... surprisingly unterrible. I mean, it does seem like strictly worse Incarnum, but it's a martial class that can do cool things without daily use limitations, and that is refreshing.

[Beni-Kujaku]

This is... surprisingly unterrible. I mean, it does seem like strictly worse Incarnum, but it's a martial class that can do cool things without daily use limitations, and that is refreshing.

This looks more like Binding to me. You choose one ability each day and you get posessed by a ghost giving you that ability? And at higher levels you can bind two at once? Looks like vestiges to me.

[loky1109]

I sense strong smell of Vizzini here!

[Yan Korlat]

Quick rules clarification: the Dragontouched feat, but *not* the Dragonblood subtype acquired in some other manner, suffice to qualify for this PrC?

[The Viscount]

Quick rules clarification: the Dragontouched feat, but *not* the Dragonblood subtype acquired in some other manner, suffice to qualify for this PrC?

The dragontouched feat will qualify you for the SI. Alternatively, the draconic heritage feat will qualify you for the SI.
If you have the dragonblood subtype for other reasons, this does not qualify you for the SI.

[Analytica]

Is the Eldritch Ancestor ability at-will? At most once per round as a standard action?

[Seward]

Might cook. Have a half formed idea. Depends on how free time works out this month.

[Troacctid]

Is the Eldritch Ancestor ability at-will? At most once per round as a standard action?
I don't see anything stopping you from doing it multiple times in a round if you can somehow get your hands on extra standard actions.

[The Viscount]

Is the Eldritch Ancestor ability at-will? At most once per round as a standard action?

The ability is usable at will. It is a standard action to fire the ray.

[H_H_F_F]

I'm boring myself out of my mind.

If I can't figure out something mire exciting to do with this ingredient, I'll judge.

[The Viscount]

I'm boring myself out of my mind.

If I can't figure out something mire exciting to do with this ingredient, I'll judge.

My man. 10 characters

[The Viscount]

Haven't seen many entries so far. I know it's only the halfway point, but wanted to see if people need more time.

[Seward]

RL is kicking my rear right now, but it could still happen.

[H_H_F_F]

I have an idea. It's functional, it's nice, it uses the SI... but there's no spark there.

I'm in as a judge.

[loky1109]

I'm not sure I have enough power to make my entry. I have in progress two for VC, at least one for JW and need to restart next ZS round and to judge E6. But my idea for IC... I'm not thrilled to it.

[daremetoidareyo]

I finally found a place of purchase for the SI that's worth developing.

[ciopo]

I had no spark with this class, so I'm sitting it out ( and I got monster mash to finish!)

[Troacctid]

Yeah, this is kind of a weirdly boring class, isn't it?

[MinimanMidget]

I'm tempted to submit one of the really obvious ideas, if only to get some practice doing full builds.

[The Viscount]

I've had some requests for extension, and I currently don't have many entries, so to that end:

The deadline is extended to August 28th.

[loky1109]

The deadline is extended to August 28th.

This is good, because I suddenly have idea and I like it for some reason.

[Thurbane]

Huh, I somehow completely missed the post for this comp.

Be interesting to see what people come up with...

[loky1109]

Done and sent!

[H_H_F_F]

Looking forward to reading (and judging) everyone's entries! Good luck!

[Seward]

I have spent the month kicking back on real life and seem to have it on the ropes at last, but had no brain to spare for this one. Look forward to seeing what everybody else was doing.

[Paragon]

Any news ? :)

[The Viscount]

It's time for the reveal! Please hold off on posting until the all clear.

[The Viscount]

Take a look, it's in a book



Noah Itall
"Knowledge is Power, especially when it’s a class feature”


https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3f/a2/8e/3fa28e33f1f09d810bf8afcdf9497c34.jpg

TN Strongheart Halfling Monk1/Archivist4/Paragnostic Apostle1/Singer of Concordance3/Dragon Descendant10/Swordsage1




Alignment : Lawful Neutral
Race : Strongheart Halfling
Level 1 : Dragontouched, Draconic Knowledge (Halfling Bonus), Unarmed Strike (Monk Bonus), Combat Reflexes (Monk Bonus)
Level 3 : Carmendine Monk
Level 6 : Planar Touchstone (Healing Waters of Abu-Ima)
Level 9 : Practiced Spellcaster (Archivist), Knowledge Devotion (Trade for Domain)
Level 12 : Shadow Blade
Level 15 : Craven
Level 18 : Snap Kick



Point Buy at level 1
STR 12 -2 (Halfling)
DEX 14 +2 (Halfling)
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 14
CHA 8

All level increases in Int




In his early life, Noah was a curious and studious halfing. Where his comrades tended to experience life on the outside to harden themselves, he kept in the company of books. His thirst for knowledge seemed endless and when his preceptors couldn’t feed his addiction, he turned to the old book and the divinity therein.


He was drawn to a particular book, that that depicted a Grinning’s Dragon Head and for the better part of his youth, he searched for Aasterinian everywhere he went but their destinies seemed to be following a parallel path, never crossing each other.
The discipline he put himself through led him to lead a monk’s life but while his brothers were revering the martial arts, he was looking for some deeper connections. He, of course, followed his martial training as any monk was expected to but his main drive always remained the answer to the Universe. He delved into some dark knowledges of the Zealots of the Written Word and unearthed some of the deepest secrets which didn’t take long to catch the fancy of the Paragnostic Assembly ; a group of erudite forever in pursuit of knowledge. They ended up making Noah an Apostle but his bloodline manifested around this time and the truth of his origin was unveiled ; he was a Descendant of Io, The Ninefold Dragon, Creator of Dragonkind ! Aasterinian was but a messenger of the true faith he was called by and the latter ended up leading him on the right path after all !
From there he dug deep into his heritage and mixing his unfathomable understanding of the Holy Texts with the innate power of his blood, he managed to commune with his many ancestors drawing from their powers in times of need.
As time went by, the connections with elder dragon spirits from his family tree grew more numerous until, one day, Noah took it upon himself to bring the
knowledge of the Song to all of Io’s creations. He was a long way still from mastering the Spheres of Concordance but counting on his backing from the Paragnostic Assembly and his bloodline’s power remaining dormant, Noah was about to leave his mark in the History of halflings and dragons alike without the shadow of a doubt.



LevelClassBase Attack BonusFort SaveReflex SaveWill SaveSkillsFeatsClass Features
1stHalfling Monk 10222Concentration (+4) 4; Know (Arcana) (+4) 4; Know (Dungeon) (+4) 4; Know (Nature) (+4) 4; Know (Religion) (+4) 4; Know (The Planes) (+4) 4; Spellcraft (+4) 4; Hide (+4) 4; Move Silently (+4) 4; Dragontouched, Draconic Knowledge (Halfling Bonus), Improved Unarmed Strike (Monk Bonus), Combat Reflexes (Monk Bonus)Invisible Eye Fighting Style, Bonus Feat, Skirmish, Unarmed Strike
2ndArchivist 10424Concentration (+1) 5; Know (Arcana) (+1) 5; Know (Dungeon) 4; Know (Nature) (+1) 5; Know (Religion) (+1) 5; Know (The Planes) (+1) 5; Spellcraft 4; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Scribe Scroll (Archivist Bonus)Dark Knowledge (Tactics) 3/d, Scribe Scroll
3rdArchivist 21525Concentration (+1) 6; Know (Arcana) (+1) 6; Know (Dungeon) (+2) 6; Know (Nature) (+1) 6; Know (Religion) (+1) 6; Know (The Planes) (+1) 6; Spellcraft 4; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Carmendine MonkLore Mastery
4thArchivist 31535Concentration (+1) 7; Know (Arcana) (+1) 7; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 7; Know (Nature) (+1) 7; Know (Religion) (+1) 7; Know (The Planes) (+1) 7; Spellcraft (+1) 5; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Dark Knowledge 4/d
5thArchivist 42636Concentration (+1) 8; Know (Arcana) (+1) 8; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 8; Know (Nature) (+1) 8; Know (Religion) (+1) 8; Know (The Planes) (+1) 8; Spellcraft (+1) 6; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Still Mind
6thDragon Descendant 12838Concentration (+1) 9; Know (Arcana) (+1) 9; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 9; Know (Nature) (+1) 9; Know (Religion) (+1) 9; Know (The Planes) (+1) 9; Spellcraft (+1) 7; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Planar TouchstoneMonk Abilities, Rampaging Ancestor
7thParagnostic Apostle 128310Concentration (+1) 10; Know (Arcana) (+1) 10; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 10; Know (Nature) (+1) 10; Know (Religion) (+1) 10; Know (The Planes) (+1) 10; Spellcraft (+1) 8; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Holy Text, Knowledge is Power, Lore
8thSinger of Concordance 128512Concentration (+1) 11; Know (Arcana) (+1) 11; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 11; Know (Nature) (+1) 11; Know (Religion) (+1) 11; Know (The Planes) (+1) 11; Spellcraft (+1) 9; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Aspect of Peace
9thSinger of Concordance 238613Concentration (+1) 12; Know (Arcana) (+1) 12; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 12; Know (Nature) (+1) 12; Know (Religion) (+1) 12; Know (The Planes) (+1) 12; Spellcraft (+1) 10; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Practiced Spellcaster (Archivist), Knowledge Devotion (Traded for Domain)Bonus Domain (Knowledge)
10thDragon Descendant 249614Concentration (+1) 13; Know (Arcana) (+1) 13; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 13; Know (Nature) (+1) 13; Know (Religion) (+1) 13; Know (The Planes) (+1) 13; Spellcraft (+1) 11; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Ancestral Lore
11thDragon Descendant 359714Concentration (+1) 14; Know (Arcana) (+1) 14; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 14; Know (Nature) (+1) 14; Know (Religion) (+1) 14; Know (The Planes) (+1) 14; Spellcraft (+1) 12; Hide 4; Move Silently 4; Collector of Stories; Subtle Ancestor
12thSwordsage 159916Concentration 14; Know (Arcana) 14; Know (Dungeon) 14; Know (Nature) 14; Know (Religion) 14; Know (The Planes) 14; Spellcraft 12; Hide (+5) 9; Move Silently (+5) 9; Collector of Stories; Shadow BladeQuick to Act +1, Discipline Focus (Shadow Hand)
13thDragon Descendant 4610917Concentration (+1) 15; Know (Arcana) (+2) 16; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 15; Know (Nature) (+1) 15; Know (Religion) (+1) 15; Know (The Planes) (+1) 15; Spellcraft (+1) 13; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Slippery Mind
14thDragon Descendant 5610917Concentration (+1) 16; Know (Arcana) (+1) 17; Know (Dungeon) (+2) 17; Know (Nature) (+1) 16; Know (Religion) (+1) 16; Know (The Planes) (+1) 16; Spellcraft (+1) 14; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Eldritch Ancestor
15thDragon Descendant 67111018Concentration (+1) 17; Know (Arcana) (+1) 18; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 18; Know (Nature) (+2) 18; Know (Religion) (+1) 17; Know (The Planes) (+1) 17; Spellcraft (+1) 15; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; CravenRapid Calling
16thDragon Descendant 78111018Concentration (+1) 18; Know (Arcana) (+1) 19; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 19; Know (Nature) (+1) 19; Know (Religion) (+2) 19; Know (The Planes) (+1) 18; Spellcraft (+1) 16; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Enduring Ancestor
17thDragon Descendant 89121019Concentration (+1) 19; Know (Arcana) (+1) 20; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 20; Know (Nature) (+1) 20; Know (Religion) (+1) 20; Know (The Planes) (+2) 20; Spellcraft (+1) 17; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Detect Dragonblood
18thDragon Descendant 99121119Concentration (+1) 20; Know (Arcana) (+1) 21; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 21; Know (Nature) (+1) 21; Know (Religion) (+1) 21; Know (The Planes) (+1) 21; Spellcraft (+2) 19; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Snap KickAncient Ancestor
19thDragon Descendant 1010131120Concentration (+1) 21; Know (Arcana) (+1) 22; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 22; Know (Nature) (+1) 22; Know (Religion) (+1) 22; Know (The Planes) (+1) 22; Spellcraft (+2) 21; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Double Synthesis
20thSinger of Concordance 310141120Concentration (+1) 22; Know (Arcana) (+1) 23; Know (Dungeon) (+1) 23; Know (Nature) (+1) 23; Know (Religion) (+1) 23; Know (The Planes) (+1) 23; Spellcraft (+2) 23; Hide 9; Move Silently 9; Collector of Stories; Aspect of Refuge





Starting off as a Halfling Monk is a net improvement ; 6+Int skills and Skirmish in place of Flurry of Blow plus those little fellas are a very good package ! Small size (+4 to Hide, +1 to Hit and AC), +2 Listen, Climb, Jump, Move Silently and +2 morale bonus vs fear effect. If you just need an extra +1, using shurikens or a sling can get it to you.
What’s more, Strongheart Halfling comes with an extra bonus feat that we use on Draconic Knowledge since our thirst for knowledge stems from the calls of our ancestors echoing through our blood. Noah worships Io even if it is more of an intuition for now.
The Invisible Eye class variant gives us Combat Reflexes as our monk bonus feat and a bonus on Listen check that continues adding up with the Dragontouched Bonus. We’re meeting all the SI’s feat prereq in one level, that’s nice.
We are burning our skill points in every Knowledge skill able to identify creatures because Noah’s a big geek and we still end up with +11 to Hide, +9 Move Silently and +7 Listen.
Then comes the main class, Archivist. It can get all divine spells of a given level with enough time spent researching them and that’s most of what we’re going to be doing. We enlist in the Zealots of the Written Word giving us Int to AC and +2 to our monk effective level for one ability for 24h ; Noah is improving his unarmored speed at low levels so he can keep up with the 30ft speed of Medium creatures.
Carmendine monks are known for their recording information and scribing which is right down Noah’s alley with his Dark Knowledge class feature.
The latter benefits from maxed out ranks in all 5 Knowledge skills, +3 to Int, +1 from Draconic Knowledge, +5 competence bonus from Collector of Stories and the eventual +10 from the Lore of the Gods spell since Io has Knowledge in his portfolio which amounts to a guaranteed +2 insight bonus to hit on creatures with 7 HD or less by level 5.
Noah can stand his ground in a fight. His low bab is somewhat mitigated by his small size (+1) and Dark Knowledge (+1 to +3) but most of all, the Bite of the Wererat spell : +6 to Dex and the benefits of Weapon Finesse for a few minutes. We have 2 attacks (1 unarmed strike, 1 bite) at +7/+2 (without Dark Knowledge) dealing 1d4+1d3+2+2d6 (from skirmish) averaging 13 damage. AC isn’t bad either, Mage Armor being on the Spell domain, an Archivist can get it as a divine spell making Noah’s AC 23 (+4 Mage Armor, +3 Dex, +3 Int, +3 Bite of the Wererat). The selection of spells is otherwise discussed further in the Spell section.



We enter the SI for a dip because we need the Planar Touchstone feat and the Healing Waters of Abu-Ami in order to get a 3rd level SLA to qualify for Paragnostic Apostle which will allow us to enter Singer of Concordance. And why is that important ?
Well on the fluff side, we’re a descendant of dragons with a thirst for knowledge and a knack for magic and that is mostly what Io stands for so entering a PrC dedicated to researching grimoires in order to access to one tailor-made for that one god that sums up our character just clicks perfectly.
On the crunch side, we progress Archivist casting into the 4th level spell : Divine Power is our main draw but Polymorph is no slur either and the Knowledge is Power (Best. Class. Feature. Name for Noah) Mind Over Body from Paragnostic Apostle grants us a much welcomed +1 CL on those spells.
Noah also gets the Knowledge Domain which we trade for Knowledge Devotion ; by level 12 you should get +5 insight to hit and damage (See Moar Lore for explanation).
Back to the SI.
Monk Abilities stack with our Monk level and Carmendine’s +2 shifting to get the next interesting bonus and we got the Rampaging Ancestor mostly here for the immunity to fear and making our unarmed strikes magic/chaotic for DR purposes.



We unlock the Subtle Ancestor and combine it with a Swordsage dip netting us 4d6 of Sneak Attack and Shadow Blade allowing us to add Dex to damage (it is at 22 with Bite of the Wererat).
Level 12
To Hit : Dark Knowledge, Knowledge Devotion, Small size, Discipline Focus (Shadow Hand), Dex (from Bite of the Wererat), full BaB from Divine Power, that’s around +28 to hit
Damage : Unarmed Strike, Know Devotion, Str, Dex, Sneak Attack, that’s around 5d6+14 on flat-footed opponents.
Furthermore, we have an (Ex) 50ft teleportation available, swift invisibility for 1 round and a 5d6 ranged touch attack that might flat-foot the target making it a good rider for our 4d6 Sneak +1d6 Skirmish. We also have the option of swift action flanking your target alone if your mates aren’t there.
Ancestral Lore can help you get results on a check where Lore (Paragnostic Apostle) failed since the former is based on Concentration which you have maxed out ; Noah’s memory goes deep.
Slippery Mind is really great for you because while Aspect of Peace (Singer of Concordance) protects you completely from the first compulsion thrown at you each day, it grants another +4 morale to the subsequent ones and given your insane Will save, Slippery Mind basically turns that 5% fail chance into 0.25%.
Eldritch Ancestor is throwing Eldritch blast without giving them the name but they are good riders for SA and Skirmish as well. Another great finding here is that it counts as an SLA ½ your Dragon Ascendant level and while it seems underwhelming, for Noah it’s awesome ; it means he can change his Touchstone site and get Catalogs of Enlightenment (Magic Domain). Now an Archivist can get any spell on any domain in his prayerbook so the real draw here is to be able to use wands and scrolls as a 1st level wizard because it opens up Golem/Grave/Vine Strike spells which expand considerably your Sneak Attackable targets !! Get gauntlets or Monk Shadow weapons with wand chambers (Dungeonscape) in them and go nuts sneak attacking constructs !
Lastly we get Craven which means +15 damage on our sneak attacks (on top of Knowledge Devotion’s +5, Dex’s +6 and Str’s +3). The cost is getting a -2 penalty against fear effects that is canceled by your racial +2 ! Moreover, Noah simply negates the first one of the day, gets a +4 for the rest of the day and can simply swift action call Rampaging Ancestor if the risk of fear effects becomes too big ! Then swift change it back to Subtle Ancestor to gain your Sneak Attack + Craven goodness when it’s your turn to play.



Continuing in the SI, we unlock Enduring Ancestor.
What’s there to say, X/cold iron is pretty uncommon and adding 1/2 Dragon Ancestor levels to saves just means Noah hardly ever fails one anymore. At level 16, Noah has +16 Fort, +16 Ref (+19 with Bite of the Wererat), +23 Will (and Slippery Mind just in case).
It’s worth noting that your Knowledge [Arcana] checks allow you to know exactly if you’re facing a dragon or dragonblood subtype when using Detect Dragonblood (yes, I gave this class feature some love too).
Ancient Ancestor is interesting. You finally understand why you needed that pesky Combat Reflexes in the first place. That’s good for Noah again since his go-to spell is Bite of the Wererat which makes it so he has 6 AoOs to play with each turn. The +5 to AC (at DraAsc10) are a good plus too (compared to a similar Robilar’s Gambit feat giving you -4) and the last level of Singer of Concordance we get gives us Aspect of Refuge ; attackers need to make a Will save in order to hit you in melee. If they fail you can keep your AoOs for another enemy and if you want to use them anyway, you just have to move 20ft away from where you stand (provoking them so they attack which provokes from you first).
Snap-Kick gives an extra oomph to the build because an extra attack means extra additions of our many flat bonuses.
Double Synthesis is a very nice capstone, Eldritch/Subtle Ancestor is good for ambushing, +29 Hide (9 ranks, 6 Dex, 10 Subtle Ancestor, +4 Small) and +27 Move Silently is not too shabby to trigger Sneak Attacks on range touch attacks : 5d6+4d6 (SA) +1d6 (Skirmish) +20 (Craven) +5 (Know Devotion).
Divine Power/Bite of the Wererat makes Enduring/Ancient Ancestor appealing to stay in the thick of the fight having 5 attacks routine + 6 AoO per turn to use those +5 hit&dmg (from Know Devotion) + Str + Dex.




Dark Knowledge needs a 10+HD knowledge check to get a +1 to hit. 20+HD is +2 and 30+HD is +3.
Knowledge Devotion requires flat 36 or higher for a +5 to hit and damage.

By level 12, we have 15 ranks in Know (Arcana/Dungeoneering/Nature/Religion/the Planes), +5 from Collector of Stories 1/encounter
+5 from Int
+10 from Lore of the Gods
With a roll of 1 that’s 36.

“Collector of Stories is a skill trick meaning it’s 1/encounter”
“Lore of the Gods might not be up when the fight starts !”

You’re right.
Let’s take a look at how else we can get shiny bonuses to our Knowledge skills.

The Paragnostic Assembly gives you an affiliation score which, depending on your score, gives you stuff to play with.
By level 12 we can possibly have +6 from char level, +10 from having 5 Knowledge skills over 10, +1 from Archivist, +3 for the divination casting requirement, +1 from our Paragnostic level amounting to 21.
This entitles us to a +5 on any Knowledge check for 5 hours spent researching. So this means if you know what kind of monsters you’re gonna face (dragons when visiting dragon caves, outsiders in hell etc.), you’re golden.
With 1 more affiliation point (like the one belonging to the Zealots of the Written Word ought to get you), you can even get that bonus to +10 for 10 9 hours of research.

But you need only 8 more points to your affiliation score to reach 30.
Looking at Multiple use I think given your tendency to store any kind of spell from weird divine spell lists, you’re more than able to “Provides the Paragnostic Assembly with a spell
unknown to other members”.
Same goes with information about monsters since that’s your bread and butter between Dark Knowledge and Knowledge Devotion.
So hitting 30 isn’t hard and with that score, taking 10 on all knowledge skills checks.

Voila, no need for Lore of the Gods anymore, freeing up an extra use of Bite of the Wererat ! Yay.
(If you’re still unconvinced, Divine Insight or even Guidance of the Avatar are learnable and have much longer durations)



- Tomes and Enhancement items for Int, Dex, Con, Str and Wis (in that order).
Once you have enhanced your Dex, you can just use Feycrafted Sais or Sianghams since they are both monk weapons for your Skirmish and Shadow Hand Weapons for your Shadow Blade feat.

- Monk’s Belt (SRD) and Monk’s Tattoo (Magic of Faerun) should stack according to the Viscount’s ruling so getting both nets you Monk 20 abilities regarding AC and Unarmed Damage but Monk 15 for Movement Speed (+2 from Carmendine Monk still falling short of 18 sadly)

- Amulet of Mighty Fists (DMG) because only having Rampaging Ancestor to have you attacks count as Magic / Chaotic is complicated. If you can get a Necklace of Natural Weapons (Savage Species) it’s even better since you can add different enhancements to it like Sizing (MIC), Deadly Precision (MIC), Assassination (Cityscape) …
Coupling either one of those with a Fanged Ring is great to get Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike).

- Metamagic Rod (Extend, lesser)l (DMG) is dirt cheap and can make your buffs last longer. Need an upgrade to the normal one for Polymorph and Divine Power (still not breaking the bank).



List of spells Noah cherishes. He just scratched the surface of shenanigan to avoid trigger lactose intolerant judges.
Legend of the list we draw spells from :
(Nothing) : Cleric / (Drd) : Druid / (Pal) : Paladin / (Name) : Domain / (A) : Adept / (NH) : Nentyar Hunter / (EB) : Emissary of Barachiel / (H) : Healer / (DT) : Disciple of Thrym

1st : Mage Armor (Force), Impeding Stones/Entangle (Drd), Grease (Slime), Enlarge Person (Transformation)
2nd : Lore of the Gods, Bite of the Wererat (Drd), Substitute Domain, Alter Self (Transformation), Web (A), Scorching Ray (A), Invisibility (Lust)
3rd : Haste (Time), Fly (Travel), Anyspell* (Spell), Freedom of Movement (NH), Death Ward (EB), Restoration (H).
4th : Divine Power, Enervation (Decay), Shadow Conjuration (Shadow), Modify Memory (Mentalism), Break Enchantment (Pal), Summon Giant** (DT), Polymorph (A)

* Anyspell might be problematic so you can forget it if you feel it doesn’t work.
** Ok this one is the cheesiest



- Touchstones
Touchstone and Planar Touchstone sites are interchangeable according to Sandstorm p54

Those linked with one touchstone can also freely visit other touchstone sites, including planar touchstones (as described in the Planar Handbook)
And the Planar Touchstone feat mentions
In this way, you can "unplug" from one site and "plug in" to a new planar touchstone site as often as you desire.. So that should settle how elegant it was to have a feat to help you qualify for a PrC and then use it later for versatility while having no legal problem doing it.

- Regarding Monk Abilities, the wording “Armor Class Bonus” from Dragon Descendant might apply to the AC competence bonus from their Skirmish class feature ; it’s a free +2 if you can take it.

- In regards to the 3rd level SLA that qualifies you for Paragnostic Apostle, if your DM randomly decides that you need to have called Eldritch Ancestor to actually have access and, therefore, qualify and make the build work, remind him that you still qualify for a PrC requiring 3rd level casting when you’re out of spells slots for the day. This ought to be enough to quell this silly argument.

- Another possible route is to pick the Planning Domain with Catalogs of Enlightenment which grants you Extend Spell, dip Sacred Exorcist before level 18, and get Persist Spell and Divine Metamagic at 15 and 18 respectively. Adding Nightsticks to this means you can keep your Divine Power/Bite of the Wererat all day long but I knowingly avoided that less Elegant road.



SRD - Monk, Invisible Fist Fighting Style (Class Variant originally from UA)
Forgotten Realm Campaign Setting - Strongheart Halfling
Races of the Wild - Halfling Monk
Champions of Valor - Carmendine Monk
Champion of Ruins - Craven
Heroes of Horror - Archivist
Complete Champion - Paragnostic Apostle, Lore of the Gods (spell), Paragnostic Assembly
Races of the Dragon - Singer of Concordance
Dragon Magic - Dragontouched, Draconic Knowledge, Dragon Descendant
Tome of Battle - Swordsage, stance & maneuvers, Snap Kick
Sandstorm - Healing Waters of Abu-Ima (Location)
Planar Handbook - Planar Touchstone, Catalogues of Enlightenment (Location)
Book of Exalted Deeds - Emissary of Barachiel
Unapproachable East - Nentyar Hunter
Frostburn - Disciple of Thrym
DMG - Adept

[The Viscount]

Not to be confused with the hot sauce ingenue Samantha d'Tabasco.


Halfling Dragonfire Adept 2/Monk 3/Dragon Descendant 10/Nosomatic Chirurgeon 5

Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
1st Dragonfire Adept 1 0 2 0 2 20: {+4} Concentration: 4; {+3 CC} Heal: 1.5; {+4} Jump: 4; {+1} Knowledge (arcana): 1; {+4} Knowledge (history): 4; {+4} Knowledge (nature): 4; Entangling Exhalation, Dragontouched (B) Breath weapon 1d6, least invocation (Darkness)
2nd Dragonfire Adept 2 1 3 0 3 5: {+1} Concentration: 5; {+1 CC} Heal: 2; {+1} Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; {+1} Knowledge (history): 5; {+1} Knowledge (nature): 5; Breath effect (Sickening Breath), scales +2
3rd Halfling Monk 1 1 5 2 5 7: {+1} Concentration: 6; Heal: 2; {+6} Hide: 6; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Blend into Shadows, Improved Unarmed Strike (B) Skirmish +1d6, soulwarp strike, unarmed damage 1d4
4th Monk 2 2 6 3 6 5: {+1} Concentration: 7; {+3} Heal: 5; {+1} Hide: 7; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Combat Reflexes (B) Evasion, Strength +1
5th Monk 3 3 6 3 6 5: {+1} Concentration: 8; {+3} Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 8; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Fast movement +10, still mind
6th Dragon Descendant 1 3 8 3 8 5: {+1} Concentration: 9; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 9; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 2; {+1} Tumble: 1; Darkstalker Rampaging ancestor, unarmed strike 1d6
7th Dragon Descendant 2 4 9 3 9 5: {+1} Concentration: 10; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 10; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 4; {+1} Tumble: 2; Ancestral lore, AC bonus +1
8th Dragon Descendant 3 5 9 4 9 5: {+1} Concentration: 11; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 11; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 6; {+1} Tumble: 3; Subtle ancestor, fast movement +20, Strength +1
9th Dragon Descendant 4 6/1 10 4 10 5: {+1} Concentration: 12; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 12; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 8; {+1} Tumble: 4; Snap Kick Slippery mind
10th Dragon Descendant 5 6/1 10 4 10 5: {+1} Concentration: 13; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 13; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 10; {+1} Tumble: 5; Eldritch ancestor, unarmed strike 1d8
11th Dragon Descendant 6 7/2 11 5 11 5: {+1} Concentration: 14; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 14; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 12; {+1} Tumble: 6; Rapid calling, fast movement +30
12th Dragon Descendant 7 8/3 11 5 11 5: {+1} Concentration: 15; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 15; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 14; {+1} Tumble: 7; Least Dragonmark (Lesser Restoration) Enduring ancestor, AC bonus +2, Strength +1
13th Dragon Descendant 8 9/4 12 5 12 5: {+1} Concentration: 16; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 16; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+2} Move Silently: 16; {+1} Tumble: 8; Detect dragonblood
14th Dragon Descendant 9 9/4 12 6 12 5: {+1} Concentration: 17; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 17; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+1} Move Silently: 17; {+2} Tumble: 10; Ancient ancestor, unarmed strike 1d10, fast movement +40
15th Dragon Descendant 10 10/5 13 6 13 5: {+1} Concentration: 18; Heal: 8; {+1} Hide: 18; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; {+1} Move Silently: 18; {+2} Tumble: 12; Lesser Dragonmark (Cure Serious Wounds) Double synthesis
16th Nosomatic Chirurgeon 1 10/5 15 6 15 3: {+1} Concentration: 19; Heal: 8; {+2 CC} Hide: 19; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Move Silently: 18; Tumble: 12; Heir's mark, nosomatic chirurgery +1, pestilential touch, breath weapon 2d6, least invocation (See the Unseen), Strength +1
17th Nosomatic Chirurgeon 2 11/6/1 16 6 16 3: {+1} Concentration: 20; Heal: 8; {+2 CC} Hide: 20; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Move Silently: 18; Tumble: 12; Plague bearer, nosomatic chirurgery +2
18th Nosomatic Chirurgeon 3 12/7/2 16 7 16 3: {+1} Concentration: 21; Heal: 8; {+2 CC} Hide: 21; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Move Silently: 18; Tumble: 12; Greater Dragonmark (Heal) Isolate pathogen, nosomatic chirurgery +3, breath weapon 3d6
19th Nosomatic Chirurgeon 4 13/8/3 17 7 17 3: {+1} Concentration: 22; Heal: 8; {+2 CC} Hide: 22; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Move Silently: 18; Tumble: 12; Nosomatic touch, nosomatic chirurgery +4, lesser invocation (Humanoid Shape)
20th Nosomatic Chirurgeon 5 13/8/3 17 7 17 3: {+1} Concentration: 23; Heal: 8; {+2 CC} Hide: 23; Jump: 5; Knowledge (arcana): 1; Knowledge (history): 5; Knowledge (nature): 5; Move Silently: 18; Tumble: 12; Ascendant carrier, nosomatic chirurgery +5, Strength +1

Point buy: 14 Str, 14 Dex, 12 Con, 12 Int, 14 Wis, 10 Cha
After racials: 12 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 12 Int, 14 Wis, 10 Cha

When Samantha was young, her mother died, and her father was excoriated and expelled from House Jorasco for unknown reasons shortly after. Cut off from the family coffers and prohibited from practicing his trade as a healer, he fell into financial difficulties, and found himself deep in debt with loan sharks from the Boromar Clan, the most notorious organized crime ring in Sharn.

Sam was old enough to know that her dad was in trouble from the first time he came home with bruises on his face, but it wasn’t until the goons came to their apartment that she knew she had to do something about it. Once they were done making their threats, she snuck out the window and secretly followed them back to their hideout.

The bad news—inexperienced as she was, she slipped up, and the goons spotted her. The good news—the boss wasn’t angry. He was impressed. And he wanted to offer her a job. If she agreed to play lookout for the Clan, then she and her dad would be part of the family, and all debts would be forgiven. She agreed.

What she didn’t know was that the boss of this district was no ordinary halfling. He was a gold dragon in disguise, and he had big plans. Plans involving a particular verse in the Draconic Prophecy: When the Child of the Exile returns to the House of Healing on the Night of the Twelve Moons with Five Dragons in her Heart and Seven Sicknesses in her Hands, only then shall the Red Crown pass to the Queen of Winter while the Great Armored One still draws breath. It was he who had orchestrated her family’s plight from the very beginning, and now he would mentor the child. Prime her to accept the Five Dragons, and guide her healing powers toward the Seven Sicknesses once they emerged. And when the time was right, everything would fall into place…
Dragonfire adept is going to carry us through the early levels. It’s famously one of the best level 1 classes in the game. Between Entangling Exhalation and Sickening Breath, it gives us two at-will no-save-just-suck effects in only two levels. (Technically, it’s possible that Entangling Exhalation can be negated by a save if you roll low enough on damage, but let’s not split hairs.) DFA also gives us at-will darkness to power our level 3 feat: Blend into Shadows. This feat is awesome. Hide in plain sight, at will, as a swift action? What is this, 5e? Being hidden is great for both offense and defense. And if you don’t want to be surrounded by a blob of dim light all the time, just cast darkness on your underwear. Your clothes will block the emanation, and nobody can say there isn’t an area of magical darkness within 10 feet of you. Meanwhile, we’re also a monk, and we’re showing off a couple of underappreciated ACFs. The halfling monk substitution level grants skirmish instead of flurry of blows. Normally, monk is a highly mobile class that ironically has to stand still in order to use its flagship ability. Skirmish flips the script by rewarding movement instead, and it doesn’t impose a penalty on our attacks, either. Since dragon descendant doesn’t advance flurry and multiclassing hurts our BAB, reducing our dependence on full attacks just makes sense. The extra skill points are icing on the cake. And speaking of single attacks, I feel like I never see anyone taking Soulwarp Strike, but it’s better than people give it credit for. It’s Stunning Fist, except they still get nerfed even if they pass their save. On a sickness-themed build, it just makes sense.

TL;DR we’re a weird skirmishy quasi-melee, quasi-BFC, quasi-sneak support build. We pretty much stay that way for most of our career, dipping toes in multiple roles without fully diving into any of them. YMMV on whether that's better than specializing, but this is the "Master of Masks, But For Monks!" round, so it kinda comes with the territory.
We’ve snagged all of the prerequisites as bonus feats and made it into the secret ingredient! Rampaging Ancestor is a straightforward ability. Mostly, it changes the SI into effectively full BAB, provides immunity to fear, and gives a little damage boost. The damage bonus notably applies to all damage, not just weapon damage, which means our breath weapon is also dealing +1 damage, both on the initial hit and on the subsequent DoT ticks. The ki strike effect is just icing on the cake; we’re only a secondary melee, and we probably have a +1 monk weapon by now, but you never know! Our feat at this level is Darkstalker, a staple of any build that wants to spend a lot of time hiding in plain sight.
This is the range where our unarmed strikes really start to…kick…into gear. With Snap Kick, the game is truly…afoot. It allows us to go…toe to toe…okay, I'll stop. Subtle Ancestor grants sneak attack and boosts stealth, both things that combine in a sublime fashion with Blend into Shadows. Now our quasi-sneak and quasi-melee abilities both pack a lot more…punch. Sorry. Eldritch Ancestor is probably the weakest one, and we can't do much with it now, but stay tuned—there's a plan for it later. For now, we can switch to it when we desperately need a janky ranged touch attack, because we've conveniently just learned how to switch ancestors as a swift action.
Good news! We've developed a dragonmark! The Mark of Healing allows us to heal ability damage, fatigue, and good ol' HP damage. Cure serious wounds has an especially fun trick in this build. With Improved Unarmed Strike, touch spells can be delivered by a punch rather than a touch (CAr). So we can punch someone in the face and end up healing them instead of damaging them. And when we do, we can also make a "real" attack with Snap Kick! Punch self, heal self, kick enemy. Crusader, eat your heart out. And on a related note, having the Mark of Healing enables one of my favorite weird prestige classes: nosomatic chirurgeon. The signature ability of this class allows us to expend a spell-like ability to cast an inflict spell of that level or lower. This is the use that I promised for the Eldritch Ancestor! The dragon laser counts as a 5th level spell-like ability usable at will. That's an inflict critical wounds every round, delivered by a punch, accompanied by a bonus kick (which can still deliver the spell if the punch misses). Now, admittedly, the save DC isn't amazing, and we'll often be doing half damage. But 2d8+10 extra damage is almost as good as 4d8+20. And we can pre-cast it to hold the charge, allowing us to carry a different ancestor into combat if we want (in which case we can still fire off inflict moderates afterwards as needed). Oh, and it gives us another least invocation, which is fine too.

We've also hit the capstone level of the secret ingredient, and we can now have two ancestors active at a time. There are many combos! Well, okay, there are 20 combos. But at this point, every ancestor has something useful to contribute, and we can load in any of those 20 pairs and be happy. Rampaging gives us the extra muscle to power through higher ACs. Subtle lets our Hide compete against enemies with high Spot. Eldritch allows touch attacks, channeling, and occasionally some very light AoE damage. Enduring excels against spellcasters and other enemies who love forcing saves, and can protect against flurries of natural attacks. Ancient is at its best when enemies are stupid, or when they're attacking our touch AC.
The remainder of nosomatic chirurgeon is largely about advancing invocations, as we wrap up the build with humanoid shape. When we tire of stealth, we can now transform into a Large saurial at will in order to beef up our damage. Greater Dragonmark as our level 18 feat gives us heal, one of the best healing spells in the game. Nosomatic chirurgeon boosts its caster level, allowing it to heal the maximum possible amount, and as with CSW, it works well with unarmed strikes and Snap Kick for action economy. Oh, and the plague bearer and nosomatic touch abilities let us force even more saves when we punch enemies, I guess. Get some blinding sickness going. Why not?
Boy, cross-class skills sure can be a pain in the butt. Concentration is the only skill we care about that is a class skill for all our classes, so it's easy enough to keep it maxed. Hide needs to be as high as possible in order for it to work at all, so we start maxing it as soon as Blend into Shadows comes online. Move Silently is allowed to lag behind a little because it's not as relevant in combat. Heal, Knowledge (arcana), and Knowledge (nature) are prerequisites, and I tried to pick them up in the levels where they were cheapest. Tumble can be a big help with skirmish, but space is tight, and it suffers a little from being cross-class at level 1, which is why there are 5 ranks in Jump—it's more efficient to get a +2 synergy bonus to Tumble and also be good at jumping than it is to put the same amount of ranks in cross-class Tumble and end up with the same +2 without the Jump bonus. Knowledge (history) is there for the synergy bonus to bardic knowledge; the ancestral lore ability says it works just like bardic knowledge, and that should include the skill synergy.
Combat Reflexes (Prerequisite): We get this feat as a bonus feat for being a monk, and it synergizes well with Snap Kick, Skirmish, Soulwarp Strike, and Ancient Ancestor.

Dragontouched (Prerequisite): We get this feat as a bonus feat for being a DFA.

Rampaging Ancestor: The traditional weakness of this ability is that it gives pseudo-full BAB without the extra attacks. Snap Kick and Skirmish both play around that weakness by making the character less reliant on full attacking.

Ancestral Lore: With max ranks in Concentration and a synergy bonus from Knowledge (history), this ability is solidly supported, and can reliably provide a piece of useful backstory for every quest.

Subtle Ancestor: With swift action hide in plain sight, the sneak attack and the massive stealth bonus are both incredibly relevant, and play into the strengths of the halfling race.

Slippery Mind: We maintain good Will saves for all of our levels. Slippery Mind turns very good odds of passing the save into nearly unbeatable odds.

Eldritch Ancestor: The Pestilential Touch ability allows the ray to be converted into a melee touch attack that can be combined with unarmed strikes, either on the fly or through a held charge. It can also serve as a decent option for ranged skirmish attacks.

Rapid Calling: This ability is most valuable when all of the ancestors are useful to the build. I think we clear that bar; while they're not all created equal, our build isn't reliant on any particular ancestor (as the builds with more focus on sneak attack are), and we're designed to be more of a switch hitter, which is really the essence of the secret ingredient, IMO.

Enduring Ancestor: We have naturally low Reflex saves from multiclassing, and this ancestor patches that weakness to make our Evasion ability more powerful.

Detect Dragonblood: I set this character in Eberron to make use of dragonmarks, but a side benefit of being in Eberron is that this ability matters more. Do you know how many dragons are running around Khorvaire in disguise so that they can meddle in human affairs? Too damn many.

Ancient Ancestor: In addition to Combat Reflexes (which everyone has), we can use Snap Kick to make two opportunity attacks instead of one.

Double Synthesis: All you really need for this to be awesome is to take all 10 levels. It's a low bar, but we cleared it!
If your game uses action points, then an alternative build could make great use of Heir of Siberys (ECS) in place of the dragonmark feats. That would let you get the absolute all-star mass heal as a spell-like ability, plus Action Surge and potentially two other bonus feats, depending on how your DM thinks dragonfire adept interacts with the class’s unusually-worded advancement ability. To be clear, in this version, the bonus feats are a lot more powerful than advancing your breath weapon and invocations; between the bonus feats and your level 18 feat, you could be getting Dragonmark Mastery (Dra), Dragonmark Spellturning (Dra), and Mark of Stars (Dra)—all of which are incredibly strong effects. However, it's ambiguous whether DFA counts as a spellcasting class, and the bonus feats are only available if you have no spellcasting class to advance. Consequently, in my estimation, this version of the build would be more powerful, but less elegant.
CM: Soulwarp strike
DM: Dragonfire adept
Dra: Nosomatic chirurgeon
DrU: Blend into Shadows
ECS: Least/Lesser/Greater Dragonmark
LoM: Darkstalker
RDr: Entangling Exhalation
RW: Halfling monk
ToB: Snap Kick

[The Viscount]

Who said monks have all the fun?


I was born with a gift, they said. Even with several gifts. Gift for the Martial Arts - never like this. Gift of Dragon Blood - well, yes, somewhere in my family tree were dragons, I don't think it's the Gift, just a gift. Gift for the Psychic Arts - that is the way I’ve always wanted to go. And the Gift of disobedience - my favorite!
Mother, father, all other family wanted to see me as one of the Dragon Descendants as my grandfather and his grandfather and so on. This has been passed down through our family for generations in this way - from grandfather to grandchild. Not a usual thing for changelings. I immediately decided - that is never going to happen! I wanted to be a Psion. Powerful and strong Egoist. Especially since I wasn’t particularly strong on my own, my main tool - my brain. But they still put me in the Tashalatora! Discipline will be good for your mind, they said. Masters will help you combine psychic and martial talents, they said. Discipline, my foot! But... Well, I say it, there were some good things. Libraries were full of various interesting books! The masters really knew a lot about the Psychic Arts and... There was her. I named her Vexy, my main enemy! She was all about what's proper! And she goes to the Dragon Descendant.
We argued once. I didn't want to hear about Martial Art training all the time I was in the monastery and she told me that I never became Descendant. I wanted to tell her I wasn’t going to, but something stubborn inside me said that I can easily do without all of this and come to the goal in my own unique way. She said it was bull**** and I’m stupid and if I somehow succeed, she’ll marry me! It was a challenge!
Of course I newer want such a stuck-up to be my wife, but I couldn’t back out! I went to the libraries. Books said you need a truly Still mind if you want to become Dragon Descendant and the only way to Still mind is being a monk. Nonsense. Nonsense, I said, and continued to search. I found a second option. Some bookworms devoted to knowledge itself could obtain the same Still mind feature, but... it isn't unique, I needed my own way. Well, I'm an egoist, I thought. We are good at getting something from others. Copying, repeating. I need some creature with the same Still mind and win will be in my pocket!
I’ve been searching for years and decades. Several times I returned to the Tashalatora, several times met Vexy. She always laughed at me: Have you found your unique way, Descendant? But I'd never stop looking. There were several promising options, but... Kuo-toa monitors were an unfortunate mistake. They turned out to be a product of training like regular monks. As well others creatures: Armand Warden, Rhek Chaosgrinder, even Gravetouched Ghoul was just undead monk!
I almost lowered my hands, but when I found it! This perfect creatures. Truly embodiment of the Still mind - modrones. It was a difficult task for me to research them in their natural habitat. Another plane with different laws. Very very strong laws! But I found it! Hierarch Secundus. That's what I'm always searching for!
It remains only to learn Greater Metamorphosis power and I'll become Dragon Descendant without any of this martial training. Ha, I want to see her face when she finds out!!

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/9f/20/c3/9f20c35c8fb933624bcb18432130048a.jpg

CN Changeling Changeling Egoist 17/Dragon Descendant 3

Abilities Initial Middle Age (12th lvl) Levels Total
STR 9 -1 8
DEX 11 -1 10
CON 15 -1 14
INT 18 1 5 24
WIS 9 1 10
CHA 11 1 12

Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
1st Changeling Egoist 1 0 0 0 2 32: {+4} Autohypnosis: 4; {+4} Bluff: 4; {+4} Concentration: 4; {+4} Disguise: 4; {+3} Heal: 3; {+2} Knowledge (Arcane): 2; {+1} Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 1; {+1} Knowledge (Local): 1; {+1} Knowledge (Nature): 1; {+2} Knowledge (Psionics): 2; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 1; {+1} Knowledge (The planes): 1; {+4} Psicraft: 4; Kung Fu Genius Body control, discipline (egoist)
2nd Egoist 2 1 0 0 3 6: {+1} Autohypnosis: 5; Bluff: 4; {+1} Concentration: 5; Disguise: 4; {+1} Heal: 4; {+1} Knowledge (Arcane): 3; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 1; Knowledge (Local): 1; Knowledge (Nature): 1; {+1} Knowledge (Psionics): 3; Knowledge (Religion): 1; Knowledge (The planes): 1; {+1} Psicraft: 5;
3rd Changeling Egoist 3 1 1 1 3 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 6; {+2} Bluff: 6; Concentration: 5; {+2} Disguise: 6; Heal: 4; Knowledge (Arcane): 3; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 1; Knowledge (Local): 1; Knowledge (Nature): 1; Knowledge (Psionics): 3; Knowledge (Religion): 1; Knowledge (The planes): 1; {+1} Psicraft: 6; {+2} Assume Quirk; Monastic Training (Psion) Everchanging psicrystal
4th Egoist 4 2 1 1 4 6: {+1} Autohypnosis: 7; Bluff: 6; {+2} Concentration: 7; Disguise: 6; Heal: 4; Knowledge (Arcane): 3; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 1; Knowledge (Local): 1; Knowledge (Nature): 1; Knowledge (Psionics): 3; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 2; {+1} Knowledge (The planes): 2; {+1} Psicraft: 7; Assume Quirk;
5th Changeling Egoist 5 2 1 1 4 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 8; {+2} Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 8; {+2} Disguise: 8; {+1} Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 3; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 1; Knowledge (Local): 1; Knowledge (Nature): 1; Knowledge (Psionics): 3; Knowledge (Religion): 2; Knowledge (The planes): 2; {+1} Psicraft: 8; Assume Quirk; Extra powers known
6th Egoist 6 3 2 2 5 6: {+1} Autohypnosis: 9; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 9; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 3; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 1; {+1} Knowledge (Local): 2; {+1} Knowledge (Nature): 2; {+1} Knowledge (Psionics): 4; Knowledge (Religion): 2; Knowledge (The planes): 2; {+1} Psicraft: 9; Assume Quirk; Dragontouched
7th Egoist 7 3 2 2 5 6: {+1} Autohypnosis: 10; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 10; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; {+1} Knowledge (Arcane): 4; {+1} Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 2; {+1} Knowledge (Local): 3; Knowledge (Nature): 2; Knowledge (Psionics): 4; Knowledge (Religion): 2; Knowledge (The planes): 2; {+1} Psicraft: 10; Assume Quirk;
8th Egoist 8 4 2 2 6 7: {+1} Autohypnosis: 11; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 11; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 4; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 2; Knowledge (Local): 3; {+1} Knowledge (Nature): 3; {+1} Knowledge (Psionics): 5; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 3; {+1} Knowledge (The planes): 3; {+1} Psicraft: 11; Assume Quirk;
9th Egoist 9 4 3 3 6 7: {+1} Autohypnosis: 12; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 12; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; {+1} Knowledge (Arcane): 5; {+1} Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 3; Knowledge (Local): 3; Knowledge (Nature): 3; {+2} Knowledge (Psionics): 7; Knowledge (Religion): 3; Knowledge (The planes): 3; {+1} Psicraft: 12; Assume Quirk; Tashalatora (Psion)
10th Egoist 10 5 3 3 7 7: {+1} Autohypnosis: 13; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 13; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 5; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 3; Knowledge (Local): 3; Knowledge (Nature): 3; Knowledge (Psionics): 7; {+2} Knowledge (Religion): 5; {+2} Knowledge (The planes): 5; {+1} Psicraft: 13; Assume Quirk; Overchannel Bonus feat
11th Egoist 11 5 3 3 7 7: {+1} Autohypnosis: 14; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 14; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 5; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 3; {+2} Knowledge (Local): 5; {+2} Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 7; Knowledge (Religion): 5; Knowledge (The planes): 5; {+1} Psicraft: 14; Assume Quirk;
12th Egoist 12 6 4 4 8 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 15; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 15; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 5; {+2} Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 7; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 6; {+2} Knowledge (The planes): 7; {+1} Psicraft: 15; Assume Quirk; Psychic Meditation
13th Egoist 13 6 4 4 8 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 16; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 16; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 5; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 7; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 7; {+4} Knowledge (The planes): 11; {+1} Psicraft: 16; Assume Quirk;
14th Egoist 14 7 4 4 9 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 17; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 17; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 5; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 7; {+1} Knowledge (Religion): 8; {+4} Knowledge (The planes): 15; {+1} Psicraft: 17; Assume Quirk;
15th Egoist 15 7 5 5 9 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 18; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 18; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; {+2} Knowledge (Arcane): 7; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 7; Knowledge (Religion): 8; {+3} Knowledge (The planes): 18; {+1} Psicraft: 18; Assume Quirk; Extend Power, Practiced Manifester Bonus feat
16th Egoist 16 8 5 5 10 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 19; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 19; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 7; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; {+4} Knowledge (Psionics): 11; Knowledge (Religion): 8; {+1} Knowledge (The planes): 19; {+1} Psicraft: 19; Assume Quirk;
17th Egoist 17 8 5 5 10 8: {+1} Autohypnosis: 20; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 20; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 7; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; {+4} Knowledge (Psionics): 15; Knowledge (Religion): 8; {+1} Knowledge (The planes): 20; {+1} Psicraft: 20; Assume Quirk; * *
18th Dragon Descendant 1 8 7 5 12 10: Autohypnosis: 20; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 21; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; {+5} Hide: 5; Knowledge (Arcane): 7; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 15; Knowledge (Religion): 8; Knowledge (The planes): 20; {+4} Move Silently: 4; Psicraft: 20; Assume Quirk; Deep Psychic Meditation Monk abilities, rampaging ancestor
19th Dragon Descendant 2 9 8 5 13 10: Autohypnosis: 20; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 22; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; {+4} Hide: 9; Knowledge (Arcane): 7; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 15; Knowledge (Religion): 8; Knowledge (The planes): 20; {+5} Move Silently: 9; Psicraft: 20; Assume Quirk; Ancestral lore
20th Dragon Descendant 3 10 8 6 13 11: Autohypnosis: 20; Bluff: 8; {+1} Concentration: 23; Disguise: 8; Heal: 5; {+5} Hide: 14; Knowledge (Arcane): 7; Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 5; Knowledge (Local): 5; Knowledge (Nature): 5; Knowledge (Psionics): 15; Knowledge (Religion): 8; Knowledge (The planes): 20; {+5} Move Silently: 14; Psicraft: 20; Assume Quirk; Subtle ancestor

Level Class New Powers (Level) Maximum Power Level PP
1st Egoist 1 Inertial Armor (1st), Hammer (1st), Force Screen (1st) 1st 2+2
2nd Egoist 2 Call to Mind (1st), Detect Psionics (1st) 1st 6+4
3rd Egoist 3 Animal Affinity (2nd) 2nd 11+6
4th Egoist 4 Feat Leech (2nd), Larval Flayers (2nd) 2nd 17+8
5th Egoist 5 Dispel Psionics (3th), Body Adjustment (3th), Chameleon (2nd, Sub), Hustle (3rd, Sub), Metamorphosis (4th, Sub), Thicken Skin (1st, Sub) 3rd 25+10
6th Egoist 6 Psionic Blast (3rd), Energy Lance (3rd) 3rd 35+12
7th Egoist 7 Freedom of Movement, Psionic (4th), Psychic Vampire (4th) 4th 46+14
8th Egoist 8 Psychic Reformation (4th), Energy Flash (4th) 4th 58+20
9th Egoist 9 Plane Shift, Psionic (5th), Psionic Revivify (5th) 5th 72+22
10th Egoist 10 True Seeing, Psionic (5th), Adapt Body (5th) 5th 88+25
11th Egoist 11 Disintegrate, Psionic (6th) 6th 106+27
12th Egoist 12 Temporal Acceleration (6th), Restoration, Psionic (6th) 6th 126+36
13th Egoist 13 Moment of Prescience, Psionic (7th) 7th 147+39
14th Egoist 14 Energy Wave (7th), Sequester, Psionic (7th) 7th 170+42
15th Egoist 15 Bend Reality (8th) 8th 195+45
16th Egoist 16 True Metabolism (8th), Teleport, Psionic Greater (8th) 8th 221+48
17th Egoist 17 Metamorphosis, Greater (9th) 9th 250+51
20th Egoist 17 - 9th 250+59
All powers from Expanded Psionics Handbook and Complete Psionic.

I want to say thanks to Mark Jindra, Scott Greene and Penny Williams, designers and editor of the Manual of the Planes Web Enhancement. It was a 3.0 time, they did what they could.
Well, let's look at the Secundus.

A secundus appears as an incredibly thin, tall humanoid with a long, narrow face and deep-set eyes. Though it has no class levels, it has all the class features of a 13th-level monk.
and this class features are located in the statistics block in Special Attacks and Special Qualities. So I can get them via Greater Metamorphosis. At least Ex and Su ones. There are some issues, because 3.0 monk and 3.5 monk are slightly different, but nothing we can't update to the actual redaction of the rules.
Most important. Still Mind is Ex SQ. Improved Unarmed Strike and Combat Reflexes are bonus feats. And Still Mind, while it was received as a racial feature, still is a class feature, because "Secundus has all the class features of a 13th-level monk."

Now, if we add up all other, Naughty Loafer gets following from Secundus:
1st level monk's bonus feat - Stunning Fist.
2nd level monk's bonus feat - of course it's Combat Reflexes.
6th level monk's bonus feat - I selected Improved Trip.
Flurry of blows as 13th-level monk, plus 17 effective levels from Tashalatora feat.
Unarmed strike as 13 (secundus) + 17 (tashalatora) + 3 (dragon descendant) = 33th-level monk.
Well, both don't increase after 20th, so they are as 20th - 4d8 damage and two extra attacks without penalties, plus integrated into Unarmed strike ability Improved Unarmed Strike feat.
AC Bonus as 33th-level monk - it's Int bonus (Kung Fu Genius) + 6 (Epic Monk (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/classProgressions.htm#epicMonk)).
Fast Movement as 16th-level monk (Tashalatora doesn't apply here) - +50 ft. to 30 ft. base speed.
Evasion and its Improved version, Still mind, Ki strike (magic), Ki strike (lawful), Slow fall 60 ft., Purity of body, Wholeness of body, Diamond body, Abundant step - it's Su in 3.5, not Sp as it was in 3.0, Diamond soul.

Plus, secundus's own abilities:
Telepathy 420 miles.
Outsider and Modron Traits (Darkvision 60 ft.; cannot be raised or resurrected, Immune to mind-influencing effects; not subject to subdual damage, ability damage, ability drain, or energy drain; not subject to critical hits.)
Resistances 10 to acid, cold, and fire, SR 33, DR 15/... something? (If we look at the Inevitable, Quarut (had 40/+4 before update, too) it should be 15/chaotic and adamantine), Fly 50 ft. (good), +20 natural AC, Str 24, Dex 18, Con 22, Large Outsider size and type.

With my PP pool, Deep Psychic Meditation, Extend Power feat and ML 24 (Overchannel, Body control, Practiced Manifester) I could be secundus about thirteen and a half hours every day. It should be enough to qualify for Dragon Descendant.

First and foremost - I won the bet! Plus, I found useful the Subtle Ancestor. 2d6 sneak attack damage is good and I upped my Hide and Move Silently last three levels. And of course extra 10 ft. of speed bonus!

Type Name Book Page
Race Changeling Eberron Campaign Setting 12
Class Psion (Egoist) Expanded Psionics Handbook 19
Prestige Class Dragon Descendant Dragon Magic 34
Class variant Changeling Egoist Races of Eberron 121
Feat Kung Fu Genius Dragon Compendium 101
Feat Monastic Training Expanded Psionics Handbook 57
Feat Dragontouched Dragon Magic 18
Feat Tashalatora Secrets of Sarlona 119
Feat Overchannel Expanded Psionics Handbook 49
Feat Psychic Meditation Chance Favors the Prepared Mind link (https://web.archive.org/web/20161031222014/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827b)
Feat Extend Power Expanded Psionics Handbook 46
Feat Practiced Manifester Complete Psionic 57
Feat Deep Psychic Meditation Chance Favors the Prepared Mind link (https://web.archive.org/web/20161031222014/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827b)
Skill Trick Assume Quirk Complete Scoundrel 85
Creature Secundus A Manual of the Planes Web Enhancement link (https://web.archive.org/web/20191104063556/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20010921a)

[The Viscount]

A horse is a horse, of course of course. Hahaha, unless...:confused:


Scene: A WOMAN, dressed in peasant garb, stands in a field. A MAN, riding a HORSE, comes up in speaking range to her. The man's clothing indicates an upper-class background. The horse is indescribable. Somewhere unseen in the distance, a bard plays a familiar tune that you're sure you've heard before.

MAN: "Behold my steed! Is it not magnificent?"

MAN: "Observe it with all your senses… see it, smell it, taste it!"

WOMAN: "Why yes, it tastes like sweet fruit."

MAN: "All I have to do is stroke it like so, and it takes on all sorts of wondrous qualities. It does impressions of the layers of existence! See, now it's Arborea… and now it's Baator! It then turns back when you tug on its—"

WOMAN, interrupting: "I don't think you should say that here! Please don't get The Viscount in trouble."

MAN: "Oh, you believe that's unacceptable? In that case, perhaps I shouldn't mention where I store the potions. Delicious potions. Ah, delicious potions!"

The two stand for a moment without speaking, but they appear to be enjoying the music played by the unseen bard in the distance.

MAN: "If you were to ride my steed, I could take you across the Prime Material, the Inner Planes, the Transitive Planes, the Outer Planes, all along the Great Wheel, and also to the other places as well!"

WOMAN: "I'm fairly certain that there isn't much past the Great Wheel."

The woman moves closer to the horse and reaches out towards it. The unseen bard's song comes to an abrupt, jarring halt, as though their instrument had been suddenly destroyed. The man's eyes fill with a terrifying wrath.

MAN: "SILENCE, FOOL! DON'T TOUCH MY HORSE!"




Mr. Archibald Neighsayer
(Literally no one calls him Archibald)

Race: human
Alignment: lawful neutral
Monk, fighter, devoted defender, dragon descendant, crusader





Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
1st Overwhelming Attack Monk 1 0 2 2 2 24: {+4} Ride: 4; {+4} Diplomacy: 4; {+4} Concentration: 4; {+4 CC} Search: 2; {+4} Spot: 4; {+4} Sense Motive: 4; Improved Unarmed Strike (monk), Power Attack (overwhelming attack monk), Dragontouched, Wild Cohort (human) Monk unarmed strike, decisive strike, monk AC bonus
2nd (regular) Monk 2 1 3 3 3 6: {+1} Ride: 5; {+1} Diplomacy: 5; {+1} Concentration: 5; {+1 CC} Search: 2.5; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; {+2 CC} K: Dungeoneering: 1; Combat Reflexes (monk) Invisible fist
3rd Monk 3 2 3 3 3 6: {+1} Ride: 6; {+1} Diplomacy: 6; {+1} Concentration: 6; {+1 CC} Search: 3; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; {+2 CC} K: Dungeoneering: 2; Mounted Combat Still mind
4th Fighter 1 3 5 3 3 4: Ride: 6; Diplomacy: 6; {+2 CC} Concentration: 7; Search: 3; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2} Handle Animal: 2; Trample (fighter)
5th Fighter 2 4 6 3 3 4: Ride: 6; Diplomacy: 6; {+2 CC} Concentration: 8; Search: 3; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2} Handle Animal: 4; Weapon Focus: Lance (fighter)
6th Dragon Descendent 1 4 8 3 5 6: {+2} Ride: 8; Diplomacy: 6; Concentration: 8; {+2 CC} Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 5; Alertness Monk abilities, rampaging ancestor
7th Dragon Descendent 2 5 9 3 6 6: {+2} Ride: 10; {+2} Diplomacy: 8; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 6; Ancestral lore
8th Devoted Defender 1 6 11 5 6 4: {+1} Ride: 11; Diplomacy: 8; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+3 CC} Handle Animal: 7.5; AC Bonus, harm's way
9th Devoted Defender 2 7 12 6 6 4: {+1} Ride: 12; Diplomacy: 8; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+3 CC} Handle Animal: 9; Spectral Skirmisher Defensive strike
10th Dragon Descendent 3 8 12 7 6 6: {+1} Ride: 13; {+3} Diplomacy: 11; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 10; Subtle ancestor
11th Dragon Descendent 4 9 13 7 6 6: {+1} Ride: 14; {+3} Diplomacy: 14; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 11; Slippery mind
12th Dragon Descendent 5 9 13 7 6 6: {+1} Ride: 15; {+1} Diplomacy: 15; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+4 CC} Handle Animal: 13; Undermountain Tactics Eldritch ancestor
13th Dragon Descendent 6 10 14 8 7 6: {+1} Ride: 16; {+1} Diplomacy: 16; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+4 CC} Handle Animal: 15; Rapid calling
14th Dragon Descendent 7 11 14 8 7 6: {+1} Ride: 17; {+1} Diplomacy: 17; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+4 CC} Handle Animal: 17; Enduring ancestor
15th Crusader 1 12 16 8 7 6: {+1} Ride: 18; {+1} Diplomacy: 18; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 18; {+2} Balance: 2; White Raven Defense Steely resolve 5, furious counterstrike, maneuvers
16th Dragon Descendent 8 13 17 8 8 6: {+1} Ride: 19; {+1} Diplomacy: 19; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 19; {+2} Balance: 4; detect dragonblood
17th Dragon Descendent 9 13 17 9 8 6: {+1} Ride: 20; {+1} Diplomacy: 20; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 20; {+2} Balance: 6; Ancient ancestor
18th Dragon Descendent 10 14 18 9 9 6: {+1} Ride: 21; {+1} Diplomacy: 21; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 21; {+2} Balance: 8; Clarion Commander Double synthesis
19th Crusader 2 15 19 9 9 6: {+1} Ride: 22; {+1} Diplomacy: 22; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 22; {+2} Balance: 10; Indomitable soul
20th Crusader 3 16 19 10 10 6: {+1} Ride: 23; {+1} Diplomacy: 23; Concentration: 8; Search: 4; Spot: 4; Sense Motive: 4; K: Dungeoneering: 2; {+2 CC} Handle Animal: 23; {+2} Balance: 12; Zealous surge



ECL Level taken Initiator level Maneuver Tome of Battle page # Prerequisites Short Explanation
15 Crusader 1 8 Leading the Attack 91 n/a Allies gain +4 bonus on attacks against foe you strike Basically this is just one of the only White Raven maneuvers with no prereqs, but still, buffing allies is useful.
15 Crusader 1 8 Vanguard Strike 62 n/a Allies gain +4 bonus on attacks against target Basically the same thing as Leading the Attack, but for Devoted Spirit. Useful for the same reasons.
15 Crusader 1 8 Divine Surge 58 One Devoted Spirit maneuver Deal +8d8 damage You know, sometimes you just want to deal +8d8 damage, and that's okay.
15 Crusader 1 8 Defensive Rebuke 58 One Devoted Spirit maneuver Foes you strike must attack you or provoke attack of opportunity Considering that this character's whole deal is about taking aggro and making AoOs as a result, this really feels like an obvious choice. Use that DR from enduring ancestor! Get extra ancient ancestor attacks!
15 Crusader 1 8 White Raven Strike 94 One White Raven maneuver Deal +4d6 damage, target becomes flat-footed Honestly I can't be bothered to justify taking White Raven Tactics, so let's instead just pick a nice solid +damage maneuver.
15 Crusader 1 8 Leading the Charge (stance) 92 n/a Allies deal +1 dmg/initiator level on charge attacks Per the class feature language, your first stance has to be a 1st-level one, but this one's really good anyway. Not only is it White Raven and therefore it triggers White Raven Defense, but it's also a great damage boost for Mhia!
19 Crusader 2 10.5 Tactics of the Wolf (stance) 93 One White Raven maneuver You and allies deal +1 dmg / 2 initiator levels against flanked targets Mhia uses the island of blades stance, so Mr. Neighsayer is Mhia are always flanking adjacent enemies. This is a nice set of bonus damage, and it's multipliable (on a crit, on an attack with a lance from a charging mount, etc.)!
20 Crusader 3 11.5 Flanking Maneuver 91 Two White Raven Maneuvers Hit flanked target, allies gain free attack As indicated above, because of Mhia's island of blades stand, flanking is easy.




Thing Prereqs? Source Basics Why it's cool
Social class n/a Cityscape 59 "Each character is permitted to select three skills from a list determined by her social class. [. . . ] they become permanent class skills for the character." One of the skills associated with being upper class is Ride. We only need Ride as a permanent class skill (no need to pick three of them), but since Ride features heavily in what we're doing but only relatively sparsely in the actual classes we need, this helps a LOT.
Dragontouched CHA 11 Dragon Magic 18 Gain dragonblood subtype, +1 HP, +1 Listen/Search/Spot, +1 on saves vs. paralysis and sleep This is just a prereq for the secret ingredient. Sorry.
Wild Cohort n/a Web (https://web.archive.org/web/20161101073942/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) Gain a cohort that functions similarly to a druid's animal companion; scales with your character level. HORSE. This is where the horse comes from! It scales with level! It's friendly and reliable! It can arguably be replaced if it dies because the feat still says you have the benefit and the feat is still valid even if it dies!
Overwhelming attack monk Monk level 1 Unearthed Arcana 52 Instead of Stunning Fist or Improved Grapple, get Power Attack as a 1st level monk feat. Power Attack sets us up nicely for later and ends up being more useful than Stunning Fist would.
Decisive Strike Monk level 1 PHB2 51 Instead of flurry of blows, make a single attack with a monk weapon as a full-round action; it does double damage, as do all your other attacks for the round. This is an alternate strategy that we'll describe down the line, but more to the point, unlike flurry of blows, decisive strike isn't lost when you wear armor, so we don't have to be running around naked in order to get the benefits. This might not come up much, though.
Combat Reflexes n/a PHB Instead of making 1 attack of opportunity per round, you can make 1 + DEX such attacks, and you can AoO while flat-footed. Per UA 52, a monk can abandon her fighting style at any time by taking a different feat at level 2 or 6, which is exactly what's happening here. A standard PHB monk is allowed to take Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat at 2nd level. This is a prereq for the SI, and it's also key to our strategy of taking advantage of attacks of opportunity.
Invisible Fist Monk level 2 Exemplars of Evil 21 Instead of evasion, gain the ability to go invisible for 1 round as an immediate action, usable once per three rounds One of my favorite ACFs! This is a great defensive move early on. It doesn't have a requirement to be lightly armored or unarmored, so it works even once we switch to real armor. Once Spectral Skirmisher comes online, it will also be a great way to get extra attacks.
Mounted Combat Ride 1 rank PHB If your mount is attacked, make a Ride check to use instead of its AC. This is a prereq, and it also does a great job of keeping a mount alive! Ride checks can scale way faster than AC normally would, so it can make your mount extremely hard to harm.
Still mind Monk level 3 PHB +2 on saves vs. enchantment. Be honest, did you remember what still mind actually did before we started this round? Anyway, this is a prereq.
Trample Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat PHB When using overrun on a mount, the target cannot choose to avoid you, and your mount can make a hoof attack against a target you knock down. This is an extremely key part of what we're doing. I won't summarize this; you'll need to look at the full description, please.
Weapon Focus BAB +1 PHB +1 to hit with chosen weapon Preeeeeeereq
Alertness n/a PHB +2 Spot/Listen Preeeeeeereq
Dragon Descendant Concentration 8, Dragontouched, Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes, still mind class feature Dragon Magic 34 " ""A secretive monastic order, dragon descendants tap into the
power of their draconic heritage to call on their ancestors in
times of need. Then they fight in synthesis with the spirit of
a long-dead dragon that bolsters both offense and defense."" " See features/writeup
Rampaging ancestor Dragon descendant level 1 Dragon Magic 34 +1/+2/+3 on attack/damage rolls; immune to fear Every +1 counts, right?
Ancestral lore Dragon descendant level 2 Dragon Magic 35 1/week, roll bardic knowledge using Concentration *muffled sobbing*
Spectral Skirmisher BAB +6 PHB2 83 If you are attacked while invisible, the attacker provokes an AoO from you. Using that Combat Reflexes prereq! Since invisible fist means that we can go invisible arbitrarily when we're attacked, that means any attack against us (at least every few rounds) can trigger a retaliation from us.
Devoted Defender BAB +5, Alertness, Weapon Focus (any melee), Search 4, Sense Motive 4, Spot 4 Sword and Fist 14 "The devoted defender is a professional guardian. She is an individual who is skilled at protecting an individual client from harm, often by taking her charge's place as the target of threats and attacks." See features/writeup
Harm's way Devoted defender 1 Sword and Fist 14 Designate a specific ally as your charge; if you're w/in 5 ft of the ally and they get attacked, you can take the attack instead (no action). Since several dragon descendant features are defensive in nature, it makes sense to show them off by throwing ourselves in harm's way! This also provides a further layer of protection for keeping the horse safe.
Defensive strike Devoted defender 2 Sword and Fist 14 When your charge gets attacked in melee, make an attack of opportunity against the attacker. How dare you touch my horse! Great way of generating AoOs to use with Combat Reflexes.
Subtle ancestor Dragon descendant 3 Dragon Magic 35 2d6 sneak attack, +level on Hide/MS I dunno, friends, maybe if you've got a reliable flanking buddy this might be better than rampaging, but...
Slippery Mind Dragon descendant 4 Dragon Magic 35 " ""If a [character] with slippery mind is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and
fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC.""" It's a purely passive feature so it's hard to showcase, but I think this is an underrated ability. Getting a second chance is actually really nice. And hey, Dragontouched provides a +1 on saves vs. enchantments!
Undermountain Tactics BAB +6, K: Dungeoneering 2 Dungeonscape 46 If you hit an opponent twice on your turn while you have the high ground advantage, target must make a Balance check or fall prone. Hey, did you know that a mounted combatant has the high ground advantage against a nonmounted combatant? It's true! So this means that attacking from horseback forces a Balance check (which many creatures will have no or minimal ranks in) against falling prone. (Also, note that the prereq has an OR in it, not an AND, after the racial component. You have to be a dwarf or a gnome OR you have to have BAB +6 and 2 ranks in K: Dungeoneering.)
Eldritch ancestor Dragon descendant 5 Dragon Magic 35 Gain a spell-like ray that deals 1d6 damage per two levels of dragon descendant. I'm trying, but I can't come up with a compelling reason why "warlock, but worse, and way below ECL" is useful in a general case. I guess just switch to it if you need a ranged option in the moment?
Rapid calling Dragon descendant 6 Dragon Magic 35 Switch ancestor spirit as a swift action instead of as a standard. Action economy! Action economy is always a winner. Switch to subtle ancestor when you've got a flank ready. Switch to eldritch ancestor when you can't reach someone. Switch to rampaging when you just want to hit things. This is nice!
Enduring ancestor Dragon descendant 7 Dragon Magic 35 Gain bonus to saves and DR/cold iron based on dragon descendant level You're hurling yourself in harm's way to protect your beloved horse, so why wouldn't you want a noticeable amount of DR/cold iron?
White Raven Defense One White Raven stance Tome of Battle 34 +1 AC while in a white raven stance and next to an ally This is almost entirely just a prereq, but hey, you're always next to an ally when you're mounted!
Crusader n/a Tome of Battle 9 Martial adept who doesn't have to spend an action to refresh maneuvers This is the best way to get some White Raven to open up White Raven Defense and then Clarion Commander.
Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5 Crusader 1 Tome of Battle 10 When you take damage, you can delay taking up to 5 points of that damage for one round, at which point your delayed damage pool clears and the damage goes into your normal HP instead. While there is damage in your pool, you gain a +1 bonus on attack/damage rolls. These are so tightly linked that it doesn't make sense to separate them. 5 points of delayed damage is trivial by this ECL, but it didn't cost anything to get the ability, and every +1 adds up.
Detect Dragonblood Dragon descendant 8 Dragon Magic 36 A 1st-level detect spell at will for telling if stuff is dragony. *louder, no longer muffled sobbing*
Ancient ancestor Dragon descendant 9 Dragon Magic 35 Bonus to AC; counterattack when attacked in melee. Oh now we're getting somewhere! This is hilarious when throwing yourself in harm's way.
Double synthesis Dragon descendant 10 Dragon Magic 36 Two ancestors at once Oooh, now we can have ancient ancestor and enduring ancestor at once!
Clarion Commander BAB +6, White Raven Defense, two White Raven maneuvers Tome of Battle 10 Hit an opponent, then use a move action to make DC 20 Diplo check; opponent then provokes if you hit it again next turn. See the deeper writeup for this, but basically this is a way of using those unspent move actions.
Indomitable Soul Crusader 2 Tome of Battle 11 +CHA to Will saves Simple numerical bonus, nothing to it. Probably won't actually have a bonus, but whatever, it's not the point of the level.
Zealous Surge Crusader 3 Tome of Battle 11 Reroll a saving throw 1/day Succeeding on a saving throw is preferable to failing a saving throw, even if it only comes 1/day.



Abilities Initial Race / Template 4th 8th 12th 16th 20th
STR 15 1 2 3 4 5
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 8
CHA 11






Mr. Neighsayer came from a wealthy background. There were rumors that the family fortune came from the hoards of dragons who had married into the family ages ago, but it's hard to prove that. Still, he was taught that someone of his stature should never walk when they could ride, and he took that lesson to heart. As a member of the idle rich, he could afford to waste his time joining a monastic order for a while before getting a real job and actually starting to contribute to society. He started by joining the monks of the order of the Overwhelming Attack, but he was immediately displeased with them when he found out that, despite learning Power Attack at level 1, he couldn't use it because monks don't have any BAB at level 1. Feeling lied to, he left the Overwhelming Attackers and went back to general monastic training for a couple more levels before realizing, with the clarity of his still mind training, that monks can't do anything and that they exist really just as a source of prereqs for real classes.

His glorious steed, Mhia the heavy warhorse, serves him well. Wild Cohort scales with character level! Mounted Combat is great for keeping Mhia safe. Trample, I feel, is underrated, and we'll get into the details a bit later down. Fighter is important for allowing weapon/armor proficiency, because running around naked is not wise. Mr. Neighsayer prefers a lance (two-handed for Power Attack reasons despite being mounted most of the time) and actual armor, as affordable.

Things get juicy when Mr. Neighsayer takes a couple of levels of devoted defender, designating Mhia as his charge. Now, whenever anyone dares to target his precious horse with an attack, he can immediately punish that insolence with an AoO, and he can also take the hit for his charge. Since a mount and a rider occupy the same space anyway, the "switch positions" clause doesn't really cause any problems since you end up in the same space on the battlefield no matter what!

At this point we need to have a lesson in How Mounted Combat In 3.5 Is Jacked Up. Class is in session. Let's begin.


If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge.


A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount.

So first off, we can see that it's clear that the mount, not the rider, takes the charge action. The rider may or may not be set up to take an attack at the end of the charge (after all, it says "if" you make an attack; it's not guaranteed that you will, whereas if it were your charge then it would be quite easily assumed that you would). Your own actions are not spent on the charge.


You can attempt an overrun as a standard action taken during your movement. This is an exception to the rule that you can’t take a standard action during movement. With an overrun, you attempt to plow past or over a defender and move through that creature’s space as you move.


Trample: Benefit: When you attempt to overrun an opponent while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you. Your mount may make one hoof attack against any target you knock down, gaining the standard +4 bonus on attack rolls against prone targets.


If you attempt an overrun while mounted, your mount makes the Strength check to determine the success or failure of the overrun attack (and applies its size modifier,
rather than yours). If you have the Trample feat and attempt an overrun while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you, and if you knock your opponent prone with the overrun, your mount may make one hoof attack against your opponent.

You can overrun while mounted. Your mount is the one initiating the movement and you simply come along with it. You spend your own standard action making the overrun attempt. Your mount spends whatever action is needed to get you both moving. Such as a charge action. Remember, you aren't charging; the mount is charging. There are benefits that the rider gets for the mount charging and they're often very similar to the benefits you'd get from charging while unmounted, but still, the mount is the one charging.

So the typical setup is this: the mount charges. The rider spends a standard action to initiate the overrun. The mount tries to bowl over the target, provoking attacks of opportunity. If the target fails the check, they fall prone and get stepped on (hoof attack).

Is that all?

No. Here's the first thing that people probably don't realize is RAW.


If you attempt an overrun while mounted, your mount makes the Strength check to determine the success or failure of the overrun, and it applies its size modifier rather than yours. If you knock the defender prone with the overrun, your mount can make a single attack against that creature. The attack must be made with a natural weapon that is on the mount’s front feet, and it can’t be a special attack. If the mount has no natural weapons on its feet, it can’t make this sort of attack during an overrun.


Trample: Benefit: When you attempt to overrun an opponent while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you. Your mount may make one hoof attack against any target you knock down, gaining the standard +4 bonus on attack rolls against prone targets.

You will notice that this Rules Compendium text does not refer to the Trample feat in any way. This is a general rule. The Trample feat provides you with a separate benefit above and beyond the general rule. Meaning that if your mount has hooves and also has a natural weapon on its front feet (which may or may not be hooves), on a successful overrun the mount gets two attacks, one with the front-feet weapon (because the general rule says so) and one with the hoof attack (because that's a specific benefit you get from Trample). Both of these attacks are independent of any attacks the mount may make as a result of its own actions, such as the charge action. The mount could very well make a separate attack at the end of the charge, as is typical for a charge.

So let's come back to Mr. Neighsayer. Mhia charges, carrying Mr. Neighsayer along. Mr. Neighsayer initiates the overrun action, with Mhia rolling the Strength check. This provokes attacks of opportunity. If the foolish target attacks Mhia, first, Mr. Neighsayer takes an attack of opportunity using the defensive strike ability granted by devoted defender. (Remember that AoOs typically resolve before their trigger, which is why you can AoO someone when they leave your threatened area; they haven't left yet.) Mr. Neighsayer then uses the harm's way ability to take the attack instead of Mhia, because Mhia is a precious baby who must not be scratched. However! If Mr. Neighsayer's invisible fist ability is still charged, he can go invisible as an immediate action (harm's way doesn't take an action!), making it likely that the opponent is going to miss. But before we even resolve that attack, Mr. Neighsayer gets a second AoO against the foolish target (who just wanted to poke a horse that was barreling towards them, remember!) because of his Spectral Skirmisher feat.

You will remember, of course, that all of these are attacks, made with a lance, from the back of a charging mount. So they do double damage! Double up that damage bonus from rampaging ancestor! Yeah!

And hey, that was two attacks, wasn't it? Yeah, it was.


When you attack a creature that is on foot and smaller than
your mount, you receive a +1 bonus on melee attack rolls for being on higher ground.


Undermountain Tactics: Benefit: Stair king: To use this maneuver, you must gain the high ground bonus on your attacks against an opponent. If you hit your foe with two or more melee attacks during your turn, he must make a Balance check (DC 10 + your Str modifier) or fall prone. Your opponent can opt to succeed automatically on his Balance check. If he does so, he will lose his move action on his next turn, but he will succeed automatically on Balance checks to resist this maneuver until the start of his next turn.

It's over! I have the… anyway. Undermountain Tactics kicks in here, since this is still Mr. Neighsayer's turn. The target has to choose to make a Balance check vs. falling prone or else give up their move action next round. Now, you may be thinking, why use a feat that gives an opponent a choice? They're always going to pick the one that's less bad for them, right? Sure, but this is a trap! Both of these choices are actually quite bad for an opponent. If they choose to roll… honestly there's a good chance that they're just gonna fall prone, since most people don't have Balance trained. Also, while the general rule about the front-foot attack says you have to knock the target prone with the overrun, but Trample just says, in its own separate sentence, "your mount may make one hoof attack against any target you knock down, gaining the standard +4 bonus on attack rolls against prone targets." This is still a target that you knocked down. And if they choose to simply stay upright, okay, well, did you forget that this all started because they decided to take a swing at a horse that was overrunning them? I don't blame you, because we started that something like ten pages ago, give or take. They still risk being knocked down by the overrun, which would trigger an extra attack from the general front-feet rule… and then they would be prone without having a move action available to use to stand up.

Now, if the enemy survives this and still manages to hit Mr. Neighsayer, that's where dragon descendant comes in really handy. DR/cold iron is actually remarkably hard to break; very few enemies are going to be packing cold iron weapons. That does a great job taking the edge off. And once ancient ancestor hits the field, well, drawing attacks onto himself triggers ANOTHER attack of opportunity in retaliation! Let's face it, the coolest dragon descendant abilities are the defensive ones that really only do something if you get attacked, so how do we make sure to use them to the fullest? Easy: physically force extra attacks onto yourself. That's what this is all about.

Late in the game, the cherry on top is Clarion Commander.


Clarion Commander: Benefit: Following Up: To use this option, you must make a successful DC 20 Diplomacy check as a move action after hitting your target with a melee attack. If you hit that target again on your next turn, the target provokes an attack of opportunity from an ally of your choice (assuming at least one is in position to make such an attack).


You can take your own move actions normally, so that, for instance, you can load and fire a light crossbow during a round while your mount is moving.

Remember how I was saying that Mr. Neighsayer just takes a standard action on the overrun and still has a move action remaining? Clarion Commander is the way to use it to start granting your horse (or your humanoid buddy, or even yourself) additional AoOs throughout all of this.

Trample. Trample them all. Get hilarious numbers of extra attacks when you do so. Together, we ride!


Mhia's advancement
I assume that a wild cohort can be a warhorse. If not, Handle Animal can be used to train an animal for war, and there is no reason why Mr. Neighsayer wouldn't want to do that. Horses and warhorses are the same animal, just with different training.

Mhia gains eleven extra HD over Mr. Neighsayer's career, and the Wild Cohort feat says explicitly that the animal gains skills and feats normally for these extra HD. Since a warhorse starts with 4 HD, adding 11 HD is enough to get four extra feats (one each at a total of 6 HD, 9 HD, 12 HD, and 15 HD). Choosing the extra feats carefully will be important. Here's my suggestions:

Starting: Endurance, Run (these are on there by default and there isn't text indicating that you get to override that, so we'll leave them as-is)
First extra feat: Martial Study: Cloak of Deception (Tome of Battle 31, 76): Really, this is just a prereq for the next extra feat. None of the Shadow Hand maneuvers that Mhia qualifies for right away are game-changers (and I don't want to try to think about what happens with Shadow Jaunt while Mr. Neighsayer is onboard), but a horse turning invisible while the rider stays visible is *funny*, so we're going to go with that. (Also, at this point Mhia has 6 HD, therefore 3 IL, therefore enough to take this maneuver.)
Second extra feat: Martial Stance: Island of Blades (Tome of Battle 31, 78) Okay, THIS is the good stuff. While in this stance (read: always), Mhia and Mr. Neighsayer count as flanking opponents that they're both next to. Since a mount and a rider share the same space, that basically means that any time our dynamic duo are in melee, they're flanking. You know what flanking opens up? Sneak attack, through subtle ancestor. Look at me using the secret ingredient!
Third extra feat: Delay Potion (Complete Mage 41). Requires 1 rank in K: Arcana, and yes, a horse gets 1 skill point per HD, so there's no reason Mhia can't acquire a rank in K: Arcana over the course of two HD. Mhia doesn't have any uses for swift actions, and this provides one! All kinds of potions become much more interesting when they're a swift action instead of a standard.
Fourth extra feat: Mage Slayer (Complete Arcane 81): Throw those skill points into Spellcraft, nothing says you can't! I just find it amusing to have spellcasters who are threatened by a warhorse be unable to cast defensively. That's very amusing to me.


Skill utility
This primarily takes the form of a maxed Diplomacy skill, since I feel like Diplomacy is the social skill that does the most good on its own without backup. (Bluff is great and all until you want something honestly. Intimidate is annoying when someone doesn't back down, and it leaves enemies instead of friends. Disguise really needs Bluff to go with it. Diplomacy, though? Just ask nicely and you can often get what you want!)

Handle Animal is chosen as a way of representing Mr. Neighsayer's bond with Mhia (and how he has raised Mhia into a warhorse, if that is in question). However, in a campaign that allows for any amount of downtime, it should be recognized that Handle Animal can theoretically be used to raise animals other than your wild cohort. This can help with tracking, relaying messages, and even combat. Because it is not necessarily wise to assume just how much downtime a given campaign will have, I have not included specifics about other animals that Mr. Neighsayer may have accompanying/assisting him at any given time. I view this as very similar to builds that include a significant investment in UMD: we won't necessarily presume that any particular items (or for HA, creatures) are available, but the skill investment allows the character to take advantage of whatever opportunities may arise. (Diplomacy may be useful for helping source animals to raise/train, as well.) Since handling an animal usually takes a move action (note that this is different from using Ride on a trained mount), the fact that Mr. Neighsayer's move actions are largely free is quite helpful.

Handle Animal also has a (semi-)hidden use: so we're taking advantage of the high ground bonus from being mounted against an unmounted foe. Well, what if your foe is mounted? Funny thing about Handle Animal is that it doesn't require that the animal be friendly to you (or even nonhostile to you) to begin with. Half the point of it is calming wild and savage beasts you find on their own, right? So… Handle the enemy's mount and make it do things they don't really want it to do. Like, you know, retreat from combat. Lie down and take a rest. Wander over to a spot between two flankers on your team. Etc. Maybe they won't be mounted much longer. And if they start doing it back to you? Well, one, your bonuses are probably higher because who the hell keeps Handle Animal maxed, and two, that's hilarious and you've totally derailed the combat. That's absolutely a PC-favorable outcome and you'll probably get a great story out of it.

Decisive strike
Decisive strike is weird, and the build is mostly presented as not using it. Unlike flurry of blows, it is usable when armored, so the fact that Mr. Neighsayer wears decent armor doesn't interfere with it. You make a special full-round-action attack with a monk weapon, it does double damage, and any other attacks you make for the rest of the round also do double damage. Since this build is designed to take advantage of a large number of AoOs, "any other attacks you make for the rest of the round" can be more than average! However, the downside is that if you're spending a full-round action to make a decisive strike, you're not spending a standard action to overrun. Also, if you're using a monk weapon (presumably a quarterstaff, for two-handed Power Attack), you're not using a lance. So this is a backup strategy that's mostly useful if there's a reason why Mhia can't be charging or something. (Of course, Mhia can still walk around and do other things to provoke even without doing an overrun…) However, do note that there is no rule against using the full-round decisive strike when your mount is moving; the rule is simply that you can only make a single melee attack after your mount moves, not that you can only spend a standard action attacking.

Preferred gear
Mundane items: The best armor that can be afforded, lance, backup ranged weapon (composite longbow is a fine choice), backup weapons of other damage types (quarterstaff is a monk weapon). Barding for Mhia.

Magic items: Bonuses to DEX/STR/CON in roughly that order, STR bonus gear for Mhia, horseshoes of a zephyr, healing belt, interesting upgrades to weapon/armor, AC bonuses.

Math on ancestors
Rampaging ancestor is almost always a better choice than subtle ancestor. Bonuses to hit usually increase DPR more than bonuses to damage, and rampaging ancestor offers both. If feeding the bonuses to hit into Power Attack for bonuses to damage, subtle ancestor is stronger at DD 3 (when it first comes online), since it does an average of +7 damage per hit (when valid) vs. rampaging's average of +3 per hit (+1 insight to damage, +2 from feeding 1 point into PA). Rampaging ancestor becomes pretty close to subtle ancestor at DD 5, dealing +6 per hit if its bonus is fed into PA (but it's a flat +6, meaning that it's less swingy than subtle's +2d6 and meaning that it gets multiplied on a crit). Of course, it becomes clearly stronger at DD 9. Still, there are two levels where subtle is clearly better (assuming, of course, that you can trigger it reliably) and several more where it's a toss-up.

Minor AC bonuses
While minor, it is perhaps worth mentioning that Mr. Neighsayer gets a +1 AC bonus from devoted defender, another +1 from White Raven Defense (as he is always adjacent to an ally), and eventually +5 from ancient ancestor.

[The Viscount]

That's our entries for the round. Judges, do your stuff!

[loky1109]

Wow. Only 4, but very different entries. Many thank to the participants!

And... the Table!

Name Alignment / Race Class Levels Chef Total Place
Noah Itall (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564608&postcount=41) L(?)N Strongheart Halfling Invisible Eye Style Halfling Monk 1/Archivist 4/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Singer of Concordance 3/Dragon Descendant 10/Swordsage 1
Samantha d'Jorasco (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564613&postcount=42) L? Halfling Dragonfire Adept 2/Soulwarp Strike Halfling Monk 3/Dragon Descendant 10/Nosomatic Chirurgeon 5
Naughty Loafer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564618&postcount=43) CN Changeling Changeling Egoist 17/Dragon Descendant 3
Mr. Neighsayer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564626&postcount=44) LN Human Overwhelming Attack Style Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Monk 3/Fighter 2/Dragon Descendant 10/Devoted Defender 2/Crusader 3

[H_H_F_F]

With such a small round, I hope to be able to finish well within the deadline. I'll get to reading your entries soon!

[Troacctid]

Wow, folks must really have been demoralized by this one. I think this is the smallest round I've seen in a looong time.

[AvatarVecna]

The build I was considering was Archivist 4/Artificer 1/Dragon Descendant 10/Artificer +5. Just be an Archivist 4 who can craft any divine scroll via Artificer 1, and thus scribe it into their prayer book, and use all that divine flexibility to pretend to be a monk. The build capstone is Artificer 6, which grants me the ability to craft partially-charged wands.

[The Viscount]

Wow, folks must really have been demoralized by this one. I think this is the smallest round I've seen in a looong time.

The most recent ones I recall were psion uncarnate and atavist, which made me think that the chefs weren't really into psionics. But then again one of our entrants here is psionic, so (shrug).

[daremetoidareyo]

The school year starting up just zapped my energy to complete the two full builds I had planned

[Thurbane]

Congrats to the entrants, with what is a truly lackluster ingredient.

I was wondering if anyone was going to use Archivist to meet the Still Mind req. :smallbiggrin:

[The Viscount]

Congrats to the entrants, with what is a truly lackluster ingredient.

I was wondering if anyone was going to use Archivist to meet the Still Mind req. :smallbiggrin:

I'm glad someone did so I don't look like a liar when I said there was more than one way in.

[H_H_F_F]

Best I had was "find a reason to hit people twice, find a reason not to get hit, and get high AC+miss chance and robilar's". I was planning on a decisive strike AOO based monk.

But best I could find for "reason to hit twice" was weapon aptitude on three mountains (shaky) and I couldn't figure out really why I wasn't just pouncing or doing karmic strike. It didn't feel like enough.

[loky1109]

Wow, folks must really have been demoralized by this one. I think this is the smallest round I've seen in a looong time.

As for me, I found very irritating Still mind requirement.

[ciopo]

I had some vague idea of using the head shot feat to "force" being attacked as per confusion rules, but it was juest too jangly to work, and not effective enough besides

[Paragon]

The build I was considering was Archivist 4/Artificer 1/Dragon Descendant 10/Artificer +5. Just be an Archivist 4 who can craft any divine scroll via Artificer 1, and thus scribe it into their prayer book, and use all that divine flexibility to pretend to be a monk. The build capstone is Artificer 6, which grants me the ability to craft partially-charged wands.

Pretty sure Artificer scrolls are specifically non divine and non arcane

[AvatarVecna]

Pretty sure Artificer scrolls are specifically non divine and non arcane


At any time, an archivist can also add spells found on scrolls containing divine spells to his prayerbook

The scrolls don't need to be divine, the spells do? I'm pretty sure if it's a scroll of a spell pulled off a divine list, archivist can scribe from it?

[Paragon]

The scrolls don't need to be divine, the spells do? I'm pretty sure if it's a scroll of a spell pulled off a divine list, archivist can scribe from it?

Huh.
So nothing prevents Wiz/Archivist to have access to any spell in the game just by having a dip in Artificer ? I'm sure this must have raised some eyebrows (even though I can't find the flaw in your reasoning myself)

[AvatarVecna]

Huh.
So nothing prevents Wiz/Archivist to have access to any spell in the game just by having a dip in Artificer ? I'm sure this must have raised some eyebrows (even though I can't find the flaw in your reasoning myself)

In fairness, Wizard can only Scribe wizard spells. Archivist is just weird. They can only pull their free per level spells from cleric list, but if they find a druid scroll, it's scribe-able. Idk why it was made that way but there you go.

But I'm pretty sure it's legit? Like, an artificer 1/Wizard X can Scribe Scrolls of Wizard spells they don't personally know (since that's what artificer does), and can then Scribe tye Wizard spell off that scroll into their spellbook (since that's what Wizard does). I'm not aware of a reason it doesn't work, although I wouldn't be surprised if one exists, cuz its a neat combo for classes that don't really need the power boost.

EDIT: Like, here's the full quotes for the two classes, where Archivist is (for the most part) just "divine wizard".


Spellbooks: A wizard must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells (see Preparing Wizard Spells, page 177). She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which all wizards can prepare from memory.

A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see School Specialization, page 57) plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has (see Table 1—1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells, page 8), the spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook. For example, when a wizard attains 5th level, she can cast 3rd-level spells. At this point, she can add two new 3rd-level spells to her spellbook, or one 2nd-level spell and one 3rd-level spell, or any combination of two spells between 1st and 3rd level. At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards' spellbooks to her own (see Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook, page 178).


Prayerbook: Unlike a cleric, an archivist does not receive his daily spell complement from whatever deity or cosmic force he worships. Rather, he must seek out and collect new spells much as a wizard does, but from such esoteric sources as holy tablets, ancient steles, or other magical scriptures. He cannot prepare any spell not recorded in his prayerbook except for read magic, which archivists can prepare from memory.

An archivist begins play with a prayerbook containing all 0-level cleric spells plus three 1st-level cleric spells of the player's choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the archivist has, the prayerbook has an additional 1st-level cleric spell. At each new class level, the archivist gains two new cleric spells for his prayerbook; these can be of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on hisnew archivist level). At any time, an archivist can also add spells found on scrolls containing divine spells to his prayerbook, but he must make any rolls and spend the time required (see Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook on page 178 of the Player's Handbook). The archivist can learn and thus prepare nonclerical divine spells in this fashion but the two free spells he gains for advancing in class level must be selected from the cleric spell list.

Idk why Archivist can only directly learn cleric spells, but can scribe from other lists? Seems like a weird design choice, but it's legit.

[H_H_F_F]

I've started working on your judgements. Is anyone else judging with me this round? I always prefer being one of a team of judges rather than the sole judge.

Speaking of judging, there are 6 terrible Zealots waiting for judges in this round of the Villainous Competition, down in my signature. Even if you don't feel like judging them, I recommend dropping by to look at the villains! You're also welcome to drop a vote for honorable mention while you're there.

[Inevitability]

I'm down to judge!

[The Viscount]

We are honored by your sacrifice.

[Inevitability]

All starting scores are 1.

Originality
Up to 1 point awarded for the originality of the build's race. Obvious shoe-ins like humans get 0, reasonably-supported PHB races like dwarves and elves get 0.5, and something obscure that I'd never expect to see (at least not for a monk), like spellscale or hadozee gets the full score.

Up to 1.5 points awarded for classes and ACFs. Monk is the obvious way in here, but if you at least avoid Invisible Eye I'll still get you 0.5 points for it. The other classes you pick will determine the last point: something like fighter will score low, while bolder picks get more points.

Up to 1 point awarded for miscellaneous build elements. Do you pick the default tried-and-true monk feats (Snap Kick, Stunning Fist), or are you exploring alternate paths? Do you do anything fun with skills, spells, or skill tricks that deserves a shoutout here?

Up to 0.5 point awarded for overall playstyle and strategy. Variants on 'wade into melee and flurry' gets you zero points here, unusual strategies that I am still not too surprised to see a monk pull off (Hide-based ambushing, AoO-based battlefield control) get you 0.25 points, something I really couldn't imagine a monk doing (archery, any casting-centric build) gives the full 0.5

Power
Up to 3 points awarded for in-combat power, up to 1 point for out-of-combat power (depending on the secret ingredient, I might shift those numbers, but this one seems pretty combat-focused so that's what we're looking at).

In-combat, I'll be looking at things like damage output, defenses, flexibility and overt weaknesses (like a character that needs to charge each round but has few tools to deal with difficult terrain etc). Yes, you might get penalized for a weakness that magic items can cover, because that still represents an opportunity cost in terms of money/slots. In general, expect 1 point for defensive profile, 1 point for best-case offensive profile, and 1 point for how robust your strategy is to different types of foes (a stealthy sneak attacker might score well in the first and second case, but get 0 points for the third unless they have some way around undead, oozes, constructs, blindsight, and so on).

Out-of-combat, you get up to 0.5 points for solidly and independently filling one of the core roles that a party needs (scout, face, trap mechanic, transporter, healer, miscellaneous utility magic). You get another 0.5 points for random bits and pieces of out-of-combat utility that can complement these roles, like the ability to detect secret doors, good knowledge skills, a changeling's minor change shape, and so on. The baseline of 0 points already includes Dragon Descendant's Ancestral Lore and Detect Dragonblood: you can still use them in interesting ways, or optimize their effect, to get them to count here.

Elegance
Multiclass XP penalties are to be avoided: doing so nets you 1 point. This is a steep cost, but many people put thought and effort into avoiding these penalties, and I want to reward their dedication.

How likely is your build to get, for lack of a better phrase, rule 0d out of existence? Up to 1 point for following RAW while going against RAI (or simply reading the rules in controversial ways), or otherwise using material or tricks banned at most tables. Examples include 1d43 scorpion whips, reading templates with no listed LA as having LA: +0, and abusing Ur-Priest. This might include completely RAW-legal tricks that are still viewed as cheesy, like Venerable Dragonwrought kobolds, DCFS, or d2 crusaders. It also covers side-systems like faustian pacts, traits, whatnot. Going against what the FAQ specifically outlined means you get zero points.

Does your build work out mechanically? Do you meet your prerequisites? Do you spend the right number of skills? Did you calculate BAB well? Are all tables in order? A significant enough blunder (like entering a prestige class that you don't qualify for, and cannot qualify for with some minor alterations to the build) might set the entire score in the Elegance category to 0, but in general you can get up to 1 point here.

Finally, 1 point for the overall 'practicality' of the build, which is a rough measure of how easily you could actually play it in a campaign. Does it come together early on? Does it require specifically timed alignment shifts, or age category advances? Do you need to engage in cheese on the level of obtaining and then curing highly specific types of lycanthropy? Does your Good-aligned character need to retain membership in an Evil-aligned organization, just to keep some obscure ACF that technically didn't restrict alignment? Fluff can affect your score in this category, and this category only: if your character's story makes sense I'll be more inclined to accept seemingly complicated parts of it.

Just to emphasize the difference between the last three points: the first is "Would a DM allow this?", the second is "Would the rules allow this?" and the third is "Would the game world allow this?". Obviously, a single error will show up in only one of those, but "DMs would never allow X" and "Even if X is allowed, enacting it in an actual game is highly problematic" are separate errors. With some game elements, RAW is ambiguous, in which case I will deduct points from either mechanical correctness or DM-robustness, but not both.

Use of the Secret Ingredient
2 points for taking all levels in the ingredient, with 0.5 point deducted for every level you don't take (up to 0). Same reasoning as multiclass XP penalties: many builds hamper themselves by taking all 10 levels, and deserve a reward for it.

Up to 1.5 points for use of the class abilities. Do they set you up to use your other abilities? Do your other abilities enable Dragon Disciple? Do you use one or more features in a very impressive, unforeseen way?

Finally, up to 0.5 points for creative use of the requirements, or using Dragon Descendant to qualify for other things. For example, if you just take Dragontouched to qualify and never need it elsewhere, that earns you no points here, but if you use it to jump into the draconic sorcerer feat trees, or otherwise use the subtype, your score will go up. Similarly, if you enter another class that requires Still Mind, or make good use of your Concentration ranks, that nets you points.


With that out of the way, let's look at the entries!

Originality (3.25) Well, strongheart halfling isn't quite human, but it's close enough (+0).

Archivist is that one other way to get Still Mind (unless you wanna get into Hidecarved Dragon somehow), which is pretty cool, but even so you take a level of Invisible Eye Monk, which is the single most obvious path to take. Paragnostic Apostle into Singer of Concordance is utterly unexpected, full marks there. (+1).

Feats vary from Snap Kick, to Craven, to Practiced Spellcaster, so a mixed bag in terms of originality, but most of these feats surprise me, as do your order memberships. (+0.75)

Can't say that "self-buffing gish-lite" was something I expected, so props there. (+0.5)

Power (4.75)
Your damage output is great, with all the goodness of Craven Sneak attack and several ways to get more attacks a round, plus a solid backup ranged option for sniping. The only downside is that your very important buffs are rounds/level, so you have to spend at least a turn setting them up (which sucks, because this build really wants to hit flat-footed foes). (+0.75)

Defensively, you go above and beyond what Dragon Descendant grants, complementing AC with your hefty intelligence score, divine buffs, and SoC bubble. (+1)

While I can imagine combat encounters where Noah struggles, they're very specific combat encounters, and near-unlimited spell and scroll access means he might have an answer to them anyway. (+1)

Out-of-combat you're capable of casting basically any divine utility spell, which is a lot of them, you're the smart guy of the party with two separate Lore abilities, and you're decently stealthy (especially with Invisibility or Silence on yourself). That's worth a resounding (+1).

Elegance (1.5)

Unfortunately, the favored class of strongheart halfling is still rogue, so your monk/archivist build incurs multiclass XP penalties. (+0)

Archivists learning from any divine list is RAW, but many tables restrict that ability to avoid exactly the kind of shenanigans your build relies on. You also obtain a requirement (which itself may or may not have been intended to be usable by clerics only) for paragnostic apostle, then level in the class so it also gives you that requirement, then remove the original requirement and leave the class to support entry into itself. Again, it's not against RAW, but it's not exactly elegant. You also rely heavily on extremely cheesy ways of accessing the domains you need, which enables so many shenanigans that I'm hard-pressed imagining a DM that wouldn't shut it down. (+0)

Unfortunately, your entry lacks a clear table for spells per day, and doesn't seem to have known maneuvers listed anywhere (in fact, I completely oversaw the fact you got maneuvers at first glance). You also talk about Fear as if it's covered by Aspect of Peace, but Fear effects aren't necessarily Compulsion (look at Frightful Presence for a counterexample) so the synergy with Craven isn't really there. Speaking of Craven, it explicitly requires the 'sneak attack class feature', and unlike Sudden Strike it seems Skirmish isn't sufficient (the sneak attack granted by Subtle Ancestor is, of course, not the sneak attack class feature). (+0)

In an actual campaign, you're going to need to track down either an artificer or random disciples of Thrym, but I admit that most of your spells are obtainable with reasonable amounts of gold, downtime, and XP. Half points. (+0.5)

UotSI (4.5)

You take all levels in Dragon Descendant. (+2)

You describe solid use cases for the four best Ancestors and combinations thereof. Detect Dragonblood and Slippery Mind get what little support they can, and even Ancestral Lore is used. That said, nothing here really wows me: the most significant upgrade Dragon Descendant gives you is probably free sneak attack AoOs when you get attacked. That's enough to get you most points, but a lot of what Dragon Descendant does for this build feels very incidental. (+1)

You use Dragontouched to qualify for Draconic Knowledge, which plays a significant role in the build. You put Concentration to use by taking caster levels. Your dragonblood subtype also gets you into Singer of Concordance. (+0.5)

Originality (4.25)
Lightfoot halfling isn't unsupported as far as monks go, but it's not my go-to expectation. (+0.5)

Dragonfire Adept was decidedly unexpected, as was Nosomatic Chirurgeon, and you avoid Invisible Eye. (+1.5)

Blend into Shadows? Entangling Exhalation? An entire dragonmark feat chain? I'm going to pretend I didn't see that Snap Kick and give you full points in this category. (+1)

So it seems that your strategy involves... punch-kicking a foe with Inflict Critical Wounds thrown on, with some Darkness-boosted stealth, and the occasional self-punch for healing. It's a weird direction to approach monks from, but ultimately 'punch people with extra damage and sneak attack' isn't a grand reinvention of the class concepts. (+0.25)

Power (2.75)
Even with the Pestilential Touch trick, you're still not hitting all too hard, especially if you want to benefit from a more useful Draconic Ancestor than Eldritch. Even if you ambush a foe and drop a Sneak Attack Skirmish Critical Wounds on it in the surprise round, it's pretty likely to make the save and take relatively insignificant damage. You're also reliant on Strength for attack and damage both, which is problematic from a MADness perspective. Diseases are supposedly a secondary form of offense, but most foes are immune by the time they come online. (+0.25)

Samantha feels a bit squishy, but swift-action hide and high saving throws make me feel better about her survivability. "Punch yourself and regain HP" is a cute party trick, but unless you're using your 1/day Heal it has little effect on net, and the damage from Snap Kick is low enough that I'm unsure it really matters over just using the turn to heal. (+0.75)

Undead seem like a significant problem for Samantha, being immune to precision damage, Inflict spells, and Soulwarp Strike (and having access to Lifesense to boot). You can Heal-bomb a single one into nothingness, I guess, but after that your best bet is Entangling Exhalation, which just isn't going to cut it against something like a vampire or mummy lord. Constructs are arguably even worse. (+0.25)

Your out-of-combat role is unfocused. You can heal, a little, a limited number of times per day. You can change shape into humanoids, or see invisible things. You can sneak ahead, but a lack of Spot investment or trapfinding makes you worse-suited at the scouting role than your HiPS shenanigans would imply. You have a good roll on Draconic Lore, but it's 1/week. I'm going to say you get half points here. (+0.5)

Elegance (5)
Your levels are stacked just right to prevent you from worrying about multiclass XP penalties, nicely done! (+1)

The build is straightforward and unobjectionable, aside from the 'casting Darkness on your underwear' trick that you can ultimately avoid reasonably well. (+1)

Mechanically everything is in order. (+1)

Samantha is perfectly straightforward to introduce into any Eberron campaign regardless of playstyle and plot: she isn't even required to actively associate with her House. (+1)

UotSI (4.5)
All levels in Dragon Descendant are taken (+2).

I love this use of Eldritch Ancestor, but outside of that the build feels ill-integrated with Dragon Descendant. Yes, you get solid benefits from the various ancestors, but ultimately your gameplan is the same, with some minor differences in whether you're giving yourself more bulk, better stealth and SA, or the odd retributive attack. This could've been a max score if you'd shown some other class features half the love that Eldritch Ancestor got. Cute how you point out the Eberron-specific uses of Detect Dragonblood, though! (+1)

You have some Concentration synergy going on, you use Dragontouched for more than just qualifying, and your strategy exploits an unique property of unarmed strikes. (+0.5)

Originality (5)
Changeling-turned-modron? Yeah, I didn't expect that. (+1)

I didn't even know some monsters innately got Still Mind, let alone that you were going to obtain it with metamorphosis shenanigans. Psion gets you full points, sure. By the way, grats on not using Invisible Eye. (+1.5)

Yea sure, feats are unexpected, ACFs are unexpected, just go ahead and take it all. (+1)

Combat style is a weird blend of Epic-level monk abilities and Epic-level psion abilities. (+0.5)

Power (5)
I mean, you're a 9th-level power manifester in a competition where the target power level is, well, monks. Not even going to do this blow-by-blow, take all the points. (+4)

Elegance (2)
You... do avoid multiclass XP penalties. (+1)

Permanent Metamorphosis into arbitrary forms, for the purpose of meeting class requirements? There's so much here that a DM might no-sell that I'm not even going to start. (+0)

Your reasoning with regards to what monk abilities you obtain, and what they qualify you for, is highly questionable. Still Mind is listed as (Ex) in the monk class, but not on the secundus's statblock. The 'class features' line that your argument is based on might just as easily be more of a flavor thing. You also make the dubious assumption that you can get Combat Reflexes from your transformation, which relies on a very particular reading of what is or isn't a racial bonus feat (not to mention that it doesn't actually appear on the Secundus's own statblock). (+0)

You're also leaking XP all day, which limits how well this would work as a character, and for some reason you gain an age category partway through the build? Also, you're only a dragon descendant for half the day, which brings all sorts of issues with it.(+0)

UotSI (1)
You don't take enough levels to gain any bonus here (+0)

Your two-line justification doesn't convince me: this build gains nothing of note from Dragon Descendant and you know it. Somehow, even three levels in rogue would probably net you more. (+0)

The requirements for Dragon Descendant aren't used elsewhere, which is to be expected from a build whose entire purpose is meeting those requirements in the weirdest way possible. I guess there's Concentration synergy. (+0)

Originality (3.5) Human is the single most expected race for this challenge. (+0)

Monk is expected, but you avoid Invisible Eye. Fighter is one of the more obvious multiclasses, as is crusader, but Devoted Defender isn't something I saw coming. (+1)

Wild Cohort, White Raven Diplomacy Synergies, Spectral Skirmisher and Undermountain Tactics? I didn't know about half of those, full points. (+1)

When I think monks, I don't think mounted combat and I don't think redirecting attacks to yourself. (+0.5)

Power (3)
Standard mounted lance charges with bonus horse attacks. Ultimately, your charges deal heavy damage, and if you get two or three attacks on them that adds up quickly, with Mhia's attacks getting some boosts from your crusader stances. Given that our baseline is monk, I'm down to say that this more than exceeds my expectations. (+1)

Saving throws are high (with a neat reroll once per day), HP is respectable, you're clad in full armor, and your default gameplan involves being in the two defensive ancestor stances. Mhia is a more questionable element: while it's well-protected from actual attacks, it seems vulnerable to various magical effects or auras, with only 15 RHD, poor stats, and bad Will saves. If your horse goes, so does most of your strategy, so half points here. (+0.5)

Sadly, the build is highly reliant on charging, which close quarters, difficult terrain, or even simple corners can all ruin. Larger enemies are also a notable problem: you don't get high ground against anything Large and up, which is going to be most foes from a certain level on. Worse, these same foes are highly likely to resist the overrun attempt, so you can't knock them prone the regular way either. There's also the question 'what if enemies do not take the AoO', in which case I believe you get nothing out of it except an overrun attempt (maybe knocking a foe prone and hitting it with a few hoof attacks is not a valid use of your entire turn). (+0)

Diplomacy investment gives you solid social value, and handle animal is occasionally useful, but outside of that your out-of-combat utility is mostly nonexistent. Half a point for being a face, no points beyond that. (+0.5)

Elegance (4)
You avoid multiclass XP penalties. (+1)

Social Class is a variant that most campaigns probably won't use (this is the first time I heard about it!). Other than that, the only potentially objectionable mechanic seems to be the bit where you teach your horse arcane lore 101, which some DMs might frown upon but which I didn't heavily penalize here. (+0.5)

Mechanically, your build seems to be into order, no complaints here. (+1)

This build comes together as a viable mounted charger as soon as you leave Monk, around level 9 your attack-baiting comes into play, and new tricks are unlocked as you go up levels. My main concern is that few campaigns will always allow you to keep your horse around, because your unmounted gameplan seems to be hitting people with a barely-supported two-handed quarterstaff. (+0.5)

UotSI (4.25)
You take all 10 levels in Dragon Descendant. (+2)

You get Subtle Ancestor's sneak attack by flanking with your own horse and benefit from Rampaging, Enduring, and Ancient ancestor as well. That said, monk abilities are all but forgotten after a while, with the AC bonus, unarmed strike, and even the speed bonus irrelevant. Ancestral Lore is similarly neglected. That said, I love how you use the Ancestors, so you still get a point here. (+1)

Entry requirements are taken and forgotten: even IUS doesn't really see any more use, and Concentration is abandoned as soon as you raise it high enough. I guess you heavily use Combat Reflexes, which saves you from a minimum score here. (+0.25)




If we're still doing HMs, mine goes to Mr Neighsayer.

[loky1109]

Updated table.
Updated after disputes.
Name Alignment / Race Class Levels Chef Inevitability Total Place
Noah Itall (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564608&postcount=41) L(?)N Strongheart Halfling Invisible Eye Style Halfling Monk 1/Archivist 4/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Singer of Concordance 3/Dragon Descendant 10/Swordsage 1 14.00 14.00 3rd
Samantha d'Jorasco (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564613&postcount=42) L? Halfling Dragonfire Adept 2/Soulwarp Strike Halfling Monk 3/Dragon Descendant 10/Nosomatic Chirurgeon 5 16.50 16.50 1st
Naughty Loafer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564618&postcount=43) CN Changeling Changeling Egoist 17/Dragon Descendant 3 13.00 13.00 4th
Mr. Neighsayer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564626&postcount=44) LN Human Overwhelming Attack Style Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Monk 3/Fighter 2/Dragon Descendant 10/Devoted Defender 2/Crusader 3 14.75 14.75 2nd

[The Viscount]

We are definitely still doing HM nominations.

Thank you for judging so quickly, Inevitability!

I have two disputes for you.


Thank you for judging, Inevitability! While I feel like your judgment was overall mostly fair (and most of the places I lost points can be chalked up to personal taste, which is what it is), I have an actual RAW dispute here.

You claim, incorrectly, that Mr. Neighsayer has multiclassing penalties. This is not true. Human has favored class: any, which means that your base class with the most levels simply doesn't count when calculating XP penalties.

Levels 1-3: single class, no problem
levels 4-5: ignore monk because of FC: any, effectively being just single class but ending up with fighter 2, (ignored monk 3)
levels 6-14: PrCs don't count, still just fighter 2, (ignored monk 3)
level 15: crusader 1, fighter 2, (ignored monk 3). Crusader and fighter are the only classes taken into consideration, and they are w/in one level of each other.
level 19: crusader 2, fighter 2, (ignored monk 3). Crusader and fighter are the only classes taken into consideration, and they are w/in one level of each other.
level 20: crusader 3, fighter 2, (ignored monk 3). Crusader and fighter are the only classes taken into consideration, and they are w/in one level of each other.

As such, I believe I deserve a higher score than you initially awarded.

(I will mention that if unmounted, Mr. Neighsayer is hardly "unsupported," as he could choose a partymate as a defended charge and still force attacks onto himself that way, just with somewhat worse mobility. Power Attack, Spectral Skirmisher, harm's way, defensive strike, and ancient ancestor all work just fine on foot, and although it couldn't be relied upon 100% of the time, decisive strike does double all of that when it is available. Aside from the literal Trample feat, few of his tricks are unique to working with a horse; they just happen to be funniest with a horse, and so I focused on that. Also the maneuvers aren't bad. But since I didn't go into detail about this in the writeup, I don't expect this argument to score many points, and that's okay because I should have clarified it more on the way in. Judge the dish on the plate and not the dish left in the kitchen and all that.)

Thank you for your consideration, and thank you once more for taking the time to judge and the time to respond!


Two corrections for our first judge!
1. Samantha is not a strongheart halfling. She's a standard (lightfoot) halfling.
2. Undead are not immune to Pestilential Touch. It has a special clause preventing its inflicts from reversing against them.

[Thurbane]

My HM goes to Noah Itall - love the use of Archivist to meet the reqs.

[The Viscount]

And one more

Hey there Inevitability,

First and foremost, thanks for the LA Thread Archive, it's a beaut.
Second, thanks for judging this round especially as fast as you did.

My first dispute would be with the Sneak Attack class feature. You're right that this build doesn't get "sneak attack class feature" by RAW but the Subtle Ancestor gives sneak attacks as a rogue of your dragon descendant level and the Assassin's Stance gives the sneak attack ability whatever that means so that must count for something. Skirmish is just added bonus afaic.

Second, getting all the weird class spells is a lot easier than you make it sound for multiple reasons (in cheese order) :
1. Fluffwise, this character spends most of his time bookdiving so any remnant of scrolls from any origin is being sucked into the prayerbook
2. The Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment) remains the same touchstone so you only need the one planar attuned anchor and you can switch domains meaning Slime is as easily accessible as Good domain to Noah
3. AvatarVecna pointed out on this very thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25565407&postcount=60) that Artificers could pretty much get Archivist access to any domain spells. Finding one is much simpler than running after every odd PrC.

Lastly I'm not denying the Elegance penalty for using one feat for prereq then switching it but in my own way I find this Elegant more than the opposite since you solve a problem until it solves itself. I guess it'll be more relevant when I'll be judging rather than competing :smallcool: and good catch on the fear not being 100% compulsion based !

[H_H_F_F]

Update: slowly and steadily making my way through your entries. Very impressed with Inevitability's speed, looking forward to reading their judgements!

[Inevitability]

@Neighsayer: My bad, I forgot about the human favored class. Score increased by 1.

As for your other argument: Neighsayer definitely suffers from unmounted combat. While you can still get additional attacks from devoted defender, these attacks will be at half damage as you're not on horseback charging, and you'll miss out on the horse's flanking, undermountain tactics, and action flexibility (both full attacks and decisive strike are off the table if your foe is a little distance away, and you can't make decisive strikes with your reach weapon). You lose your main way to reliably generate AoOs if the horse goes. There's also the issue of who to designate as your charge: anyone who wants to stick around in melee is probably quite bulky as well, which means monsters lose very little by focus-firing on you, but anyone in the back lines will be out of reach of your abilities. Even a squishy rogue, which would seem like an ideal target, will prefer to get in a flanking position rather than stay right by your side. Aggro-drawing can be viable, but drawing aggro from equal-priority targets is not.

I shouldn't have said 'barely supported' when talking about your backup melee ability, but it's clear that Mr Neighsayer doesn't want to be unhorsed, and unfortunately that'll be unavoidable at times. No change in score.

New score: 14.75

@Samantha: Can't believe I completely missed that Samantha isn't a strongheart halfling, I think the 1st-level dragonfire adept bonus feat threw me off. Score increased by 0.5. Additionally, score increased by 0.5 to fix my wrong assumption that you don't qualify for the MoH.

Fair point on Pestilential Touch (though that name alone makes me wonder whether it's RAI that undead take damage, or simply aren't affected at all, and i think there's even a RAW argument there). Still, undead still take away much of your combat ability (and consequentially your ability to draw aggro for Ancient Ancestor), and constructs are still a huge problem. Given that I specified 'worst case', I'm willing to say the construct problems still support your current score.

New score: 16.5


@Noah

I am glad we both acknowledge that RAW, neither of your abilities are the 'sneak attack class feature' exactly. I agree that many DMs would agree with you that Subtle Ancestor 'counts for something', but RAW isn't on your side. The elegance penalty you received was half a point, for a minor rules violation: assuming that a DM will go against RAW to benefit you is a textbook example of something that deserves a small Elegance penalty.

Secondly, "I use the Catalogues of Enlightenment to shuffle domains and gain access to virtually any domain spell" is a lot more likely to get DM-fiated, so I feel like this is more likely to move the score penalty than actually remove it. Either your character manually tracks down a wide array of casters (which is impractical to do in-game), or your character exploits touchstones and strange artificer/archivist interactions (which the DM is going to veto if the setting even has artificers).

(Yes, that means that an archivist cherrypicking the best domain/prc spells out there is always going to incur some kind of elegance penalty, no matter the underlying justification, but I consider that a feature rather than a bug. Score stands, though I did shift what loses you points exactly.)

As for your third point, I strongly disagree that self-supporting requirements are 'more elegant' than 'the opposite', whatever that opposite might be (qualifying for and entering classes normally?). "Solving a problem until it solves itself" covers a whole lot of problematic tricks, like dusk giant polymorphing and temporary lycanthropy, and tends to encourage degenerate builds. No change in score.

[Inevitability]

Unrelated to the judging, I just came across the Feign Weakness feat from Sword&Fist (requires Improved Unarmed Strike, lets you make a bluff check to provoke enemies into attacking you, gives you a free AoO when they do so), and I'm surprised no build incorporated that. It seems tailor-made for a secret ingredient that requires Combat Reflexes and IUS and has a bunch of defensive/retaliatory abilities. Did anyone consider the feat at all?

[loky1109]

Unrelated to the judging, I just came across the Feign Weakness feat from Sword&Fist (requires Improved Unarmed Strike, lets you make a bluff check to provoke enemies into attacking you, gives you a free AoO when they do so), and I'm surprised no build incorporated that. It seems tailor-made for a secret ingredient that requires Combat Reflexes and IUS and has a bunch of defensive/retaliatory abilities. Did anyone consider the feat at all?

There is one issue with this feat:

Feign Weakness - Revised for v.3.5; renamed Improved Feint
Plus, this feat doesn't give you AoO. It gives AoO your foe.

If you make a successful Bluff check against your opponent's Sense Motive check, you lure the foe into attempting an attack of opportunity because he thinks you are unarmed. But you are armed, and you make your attack against your drawnout foe who is caught flat-footed, before he takes his attack of opportunity.
Underlined attack is a regular attack, that provokes foe's AoO.

[Troacctid]

Also, Bluff is cross-class.

[Inevitability]

Also, Bluff is cross-class.

That's easily fixed at least, Apprentice(Criminal) and a dip in Human Paragon both cover it. Didn't know the entire feat was replaced by something that seems to do work completely different, though!

[Troacctid]

Anyway, if you want to deliberately provoke AoOs, you can just do it with your movement and save the feat.

[loky1109]

Didn't know the entire feat was replaced by something that seems to do work completely different, though!
What do you say about replacing Master of Chains with Exotic Weapon Master? :smallsmile:

[Inevitability]

Anyway, if you want to deliberately provoke AoOs, you can just do it with your movement and save the feat.

Movement-based AoOs don't have to be taken, and intelligent enemies will stop taking them if they see it gives you free attacks. Feign Weakness caught my interest in the first place because it doesn't have that clause; it clearly frames the AoO as an obligation rather than an option.

[loky1109]

Feign Weakness caught my interest in the first place because it doesn't have that clause; it clearly frames the AoO as an obligation rather than an option.
I understand why you think so, but I don't agree. It isn't clearly.

[Thurbane]

That's easily fixed at least, Apprentice(Criminal) and a dip in Human Paragon both cover it. Didn't know the entire feat was replaced by something that seems to do work completely different, though!

What do you say about replacing Master of Chains with Exotic Weapon Master? :smallsmile:

Yeah, some of the "this 3.0 thing is now replaced by this 3.5 thing" decisions didn't make a whole lot of sense. Master of Chains is one of my pet peeves - totally different class, and you cannot recreate what MoC can do with EWM, like, at all. :smallannoyed:

[loky1109]

I think I want to see Master of Chains as Iron Chef SI.

[Inevitability]

I think I want to see Master of Chains as Iron Chef SI.

I think all judges should give everyone a penalty to elegance for ignoring updates to 3.0 content, it wouldn't affect the final standings and it would be annoying but it would also be funny.

[loky1109]

I think all judges should give everyone a penalty to elegance for ignoring updates to 3.0 content

I say for me, I'd ignore this specific "update" if I judge. Plus, it shouldn't be a problem if it will be SI. Siren is a good example.

[Paragon]

Are we waiting for any more judging to be done ?

Viscount do you have the different possibilities for the next one ?

[Inevitability]

Are we waiting for any more judging to be done ?

Viscount do you have the different possibilities for the next one ?

H_H_F_F pledged to judge, I believe.

[H_H_F_F]

Are we waiting for any more judging to be done ?

Viscount do you have the different possibilities for the next one ?

Waiting for me. Mostly done, but life's been insane lately.

[The Viscount]

Are we waiting for any more judging to be done ?

Viscount do you have the different possibilities for the next one ?

I have selected the next round's ingredient. It is bad.

[Inevitability]

I have selected the next round's ingredient. It is bad.

As long as it's better than Argent Fist, amirite? oh god please don't let it be argent fist

[The Viscount]

As long as it's better than Argent Fist, amirite? oh god please don't let it be argent fist

Don't worry, Argent Fist is not on my list of ingredients... because I don't think it's that bad. (OK, also because essentially requiring paladin/monk is very restrictive.)

[Wildstag]

I have selected the next round's ingredient. It is bad.

Is it a Daggerspell?

[The Viscount]

Is it a Daggerspell?

Goodness no.

[daremetoidareyo]

I worked out two builds for this one:

A beholder petitioner from dwarfhome gets the racial traits of dwarves. LA is a racial trait. So if you dragonborn, you destroy all of your petitioner limitations at LA 0. Petitioner template sets your HD at 2. congrats, you're a playable beholder. You're welcome world! ocular mage is now available to the masses. Then you can get metaray. And...split ray.

Here is the stub and the write up that i didn't finish
What if I told you that what you are about to read will offer new insights into a much sought after optimization strategy: The playable beholder. And, in the process, produces an intriguing rumination on how to creatively use the dragon descendants' eldritch ancestor class feature? A standard action 2d6 - 5d6 no save ranged touch attack spell like ability; What’s not to love about that?

First, we are going to need a faerunian beholder. A greedy beholder with a penchant for dominating greedy dwarves. A beholder whose HD feats and skill point allocation have been altered with non-default choices.

Second, when this beholder dies, it's soul doesn't go to rest with the great mother, but instead is directed to Abbathor, the dwarven god of greed, the master of the trove, the wyrm of avarice, in his realm of glitterhell in the great tree cosmology. Glitterhell is located in an outerplane on the worldtree called Dwarfhome. This beholder made choices in his life and dominion over dwarves that pleased Abbathor enough to get this beholder soul directed his way.

Maybe Abbathor wants a slave driver, or maybe the beholder in his dominion over dwarves won abbathor’s heart by preserving the health of his dominated dwarves as a means of creating more wealth for himself. The details aren’t super important, just this beholder needs to go to Dwarfhome. Dwarfhome is minor good aligned. So the effects of the plane itself could change said beholder. The plane already does exude an effect on its petitioners: It strips them of feats and skills, it limits them down to 2 HD. It makes them all get +10 to crafting checks, (despite petitioners losing all skill points). Dwarfhome also does something else relevant, it grants all of its petitioners the racial traits of dwarves found in the MM.

I contend that Level Adjustment is a racial trait. When Level adjustments above +0 are discussed in regards to racial traits in all of the monster manuals, they are listed with the racial traits of their respective monster entries. When the LA is 0, they don’t include it in the racial traits section to save space. Just as they do with Hit Dice of a monster. If you have a single HD, it goes unlisted in the racial traits section of the stat block. If our 2 HD beholder petitioner now has dwarf traits, including the dwarven level adjustment, well…then that means that he can undergo the dragonbornification process, a process in which bahamut strips all of the special abilities of the creature except LA.

Which means that the beholder is no longer tied to that outerplane. It also means that a player has a multiocular blob with a beard that cant use any beholder abilities. But, he qualifies for beholder feats and beholder prestige classes. In a pinch, if you decide that yes, you too want to make a beholder into a petitioner but you want to set yourself apart from the strategy detailed here, Glenhome, the faerunian halfling pantheon outerplane, offers a similar strategy to the one highlighted here.

Are you with me so far? A beholder lives it life, ingratiates itself to a dwarven god efficiently enough to get a chance in their afterlife plane. It becomes a petitioner. The petitioner of Dwarfhome is cut down to 2 HD and stripped of all abilities, skills, and feats, but gets the racial traits of dwarves applied to them. This allows the beholder petitioner to be dragonbornified because LA is a racial trait and becoming dragonborn overwrites all the abilities that came before with some exceptions, thereby losing the planar commitment of petitionerdom while keeping the LA0, as dragonborn retain their original LA of the input. You have a useless playable beholder. But it has a sweet dwarven beard, its covered in scales, and it is ready to party.

Getting a dose of dragonblood from the dragonbornification allows this beholder to alter his alertness bonus feat into a draconic feat that says 1st level only. Draconic tail is probably the best choice here. With the central antimagic eye put out by dying, 3rd level is the perfect time to take a level in …….sorcerer.

Seeing as how we’re dragonborn, and thus have the dragonblood subtype, we take the feat-saving choice of getting draconic heritage through the sorcerer sub level. And, what do you know, since we altered the skills of the original beholder to have 8 ranks cross classed into K. dungeoneering, our 3rd level feat can be ocular spell.

WAIT!
How are skill ranks and feats being applied here when the petitioner template outright removes them. There is a sidebar after the petitioner template:


Exceptional Petitioners The deities may choose particular servants for specific tasks who may remember something of their previous selves. These exceptional petitioners retain the feats and skills that they had in life but are otherwise limited as the other petitioners of their plane are.

Now, that opens a great big can of worms when you're an 11HD aberration being shoehorned into a dwarven angel costume. I’m only going to keep bonus feats, HD 1 feat, and skill ranks up to 5, the upper limit set by having 2 HD. There is a much cheesier reading of this, but we are an elegant Dragonborn Beholder Petitioner of Dwarfhome.

Why are we doing this?

Eldritch ancestor is an SLA ray. And i want to put metamagic on it. Namely, split ray. And the only way that i can think to do it is through metaray. But you gotta be a beholder to select metaray. But there are no playable beholder races, as twenty years of forum threads about beholder mages will demonstrate to you.

So, taking stock, at level 3, I have a scaly bearded beholder with a metamagic feat he can’t use He does have weapon focus (ray) though, so that’s nice.

In order for metaray to work with the eldritch ancestor blast, it needs to be considered an “eye ray.” Many different approaches were attempted (spell thematics, ocular adept, beholder graft), but ultimately, what seemed the most elegant was to apply ocular spell to the eldritch blast. An ocular spell literally shoots a spell out of your eye, so it should work. This sets up a chicken and egg situation however, in order to turn eldritch ancestors blast into a metaray, it needs to be cast from an “eye ray,” all of which were lost as a petitioner and then double lost as a dragonborn. So that means that there is no way to cast the ocular spell in the first place to put the eldritch blast in your eye to thereafter metaray. Well, there is a solution: Midnight metamagic + complete Arcane page 71.


These metamagic feats don’t require modified spell slots, and so they work as well with spell-like abilities or invocations as they do with spells.

Are we to infer that spell like abilities can have metamagics applied to them so long as they do not lift the spell slot level of the spell? Cuz it really looks like complete arcane is saying that. If that’s the case, midnight metamagic allows us to invest 2 essentia into the feat, choosing the eldritch ray and ocular spell, and then you can prepare the eldritch rays into your eyes. Therefor, they are eye rays, and metaray can apply to spells in it. And because we are storing ocular eldritch rays, we can full round action shoot rays out of two eyes simultaneously, applying metaray split ray to both, for a grand total of four rays in an action. Metamagic rods for empower/maximize go on our christmas wishlist.

The problem is the feat tightness of the build. Flaws or being allowed to keep your beholder feats via the exceptional petitioner sidebar would solve a lot. This build has more spare class levels than feat slots. So for the second essentia to make all of this work, we prestige into incandescent champion for its 1 essentia rather than blowing a feat on another essentia.



1
Petitioner
alertness (b) 1: ocular spell


2
Petitioner



2.99
Dragonborn
Alertness becomes draconic flight


3
dragonblood sorc
(b) draconic heritage, midnight metamagic


4
passive way monk
expertise, ius,


5
denying stance monk
combat reflexes,


6
monk



7
dragon disciple1



8
dragon disciple2



9
dragon disciple3
Split ray


10
dragon disciple4



11
dragon disciple5



12
Incandescent champion
metaray, essentia +1


13
kensai
weapon enhancement of ray: aptitude


14
Fighter
exotic weapon pro (chakram)


15
dragon disciple6
chakram ricochet


16
dragon disciple7



17
dragon disciple8



18
Fighter
stunning fist, mortalbane


19
dragon disciple9



20
dragon disciple10





—----
Dragon descendancy
Dragonblood sorcerer 1 and monk 3 provide the prerequisite feats for dragon descendant.

We ride dragon descendant to 5th level and take a little break to get an extra essentia, a level of kensai and a level of fighter. We are now going to take kensai based on weapon focus ray. There is no prohibition from doing so. Which means that we are imbuing our rays with the aptitude enchantment from tome of battle, which allows us to put feats that target a specific weapon onto our ray. So our fighter levels are then committed to putting these sorts of feats onto the eldritch ray. Stunning fist and chakram ricochet are the feats that I’ve selected for this, allowing us to ricochet our rays onto adjacent targets and possibly stun people with it.

This aptitude spell like ability is typically not available to warlocks due to alignment conflicts with kensai (ordered chaos can fix that though). And other feats of interest with this include boomerang daze, lightning maces, and pharoahs fist. Im sure there are some other fun feats to apply as well.

—-

At tenth level of dragon descendent we can run with two ancestors at the same time, which allows for that 2d6 sneak attack damage to be added to our ray strikes.


As you can see, I also noticed something interesting: kensai can make his signature weapon anything that they get weapon focus on. And you can explicitly take weapon focus: ray. So, you could make that ray a signature weapon. And if its a signature weapon, you can apply the aptitude weapon special ability to it. Halfway through, I thought that this idea merited its own optimization, as it was a bit wasted on the beholder.





silverbrow scorpion clan human


1
decisive strike monk 1
ius, stunning fist, expertise, pharaohs fist


2
monk
combat reflexes


3
monk 3
mortalbane


4
Sohei
weapon focus Ray


5
dragonblood stalwart battle sorc
draconic heritage, weapon focus longsword


6
master of masks
chakram ricochet


7
DD



8
DD



9
DD
whirling steel strike


10
DD



11
DD



12
kensai
Sugliin mastery


13
kensai
aptitude weapon ability


14
DD



15
kensai
boomerang ricochet


16
kensai
Exit wound wsa


17
DD



18
DD
Maximize spell like


19
DD



20
DD





STR: 15 DEX: 13 CON: 12 INT: 14 WIS: 14 CHA: 11



We weapon aptitude the hell out this guy, conducting stunning fists through our ray, therefor pharoahs fist, and with suuglin mastery, which allows us to make full attack actions with our suuglin, and we aptitude that to your ray. Because we have decisive strike, we can double the damage on the eldritch ancestor. Boomerang and chakram ricochet add more stunning and damaging targets. The exit wound Weapon special ability add multi vector ricochet calculations to your turn! Whirling steel allows our ray to count as a monk weapon when we weapon aptitude it. master of masks gives us all exotic weapon proficiencies, so we qualify for all of the exotic weapon feats.

[Zaq]

Literally two hours after the reveal I had a bolt of inspiration for the build I SHOULD have made.

Basically archivist 8 / SI 2 / fiendbinder 10, not necessarily in that order. Get a PP reserve from race or a feat to take 15 on the Concentration checks. See, per Tome of Magic pg. 197, you can use a bardic knowledge check as the Knowledge check to research personal truenames, and you make the Knowledge check in question once per week. A bardic knowledge check once per week? How weirdly perfect for this class with its stupid ancestral knowledge ability. Fiendbinder requires that you research the personal truenames of the fiends you conjure up and boss around, so this class letting you use Concentration on that check (and psionic focus rules letting you take 15 on that check) is actually slightly useful.

dare, I am eternally saddened that we couldn't see that build presented in full. Maybe someday.

[Paragon]

Waiting for me. Mostly done, but life's been insane lately.

How's it coming together?

[H_H_F_F]

Almost done, just been crazy busy. Really hoping to be able to finish it tomorrow night - if not, it'll only arrive Sunday.

Sorry for the delay, folks, especially on such a small round.

[H_H_F_F]

Apologies, guys. Didn't make it tonight. Sunday (Saturday night, if something that seems like it might get cancelled will.)

[loky1109]

While we are waiting H_H_F_F's judging I want ask question.
Inevitability told about Hidecarved Dragon. What is earliest entry in this prestige class? How many levels of Dragon Descendant we can get moving through it?

[WhamBamSam]

While we are waiting H_H_F_F's judging I want ask question.
Inevitability told about Hidecarved Dragon. What is earliest entry in this prestige class? How many levels of Dragon Descendant we can get moving through it?I've played around with cheesing into Hidecarved Dragon before, and Dragonwrought Earth Kobold Binder 1/Incarnate 1/Cleric* 1/Forsaker 6 (Dragonwrought, Improved Binding, Shape Soulmeld (Wormtail Belt), Armor of Scales) should be able to just barely get there if you use the Otyugh Hole to free up the Iron Will feat and use the self-mutilation or scarification or whatever it is rules in BoVD. Won't be enough feats free to get into Dragon Descendant from 13 without flaws, though.

*Worships ideal of Drow and Dwarf but never ever casts. What motivates this ideologically is left as an exercise for the reader.

[Zaq]

*Worships ideal of Drow and Dwarf but never ever casts. What motivates this ideologically is left as an exercise for the reader.

"Living underground"

[Venger]

*Worships ideal of Drow and Dwarf but never ever casts. What motivates this ideologically is left as an exercise for the reader.

The letter d. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWMAYFNIAco)

[H_H_F_F]

Eternally sorry for the delays, guys. Real life is so silly.

Full judgement going up tomorrow.

[H_H_F_F]

Jesus F****** Christ.

Back up your ****, guys. Always.

One more delay. Very sorry, embarrassed and most of all annoyed.

[The Viscount]

I have not had the time this week to post a reveal anyway, so do not feel bad.

[H_H_F_F]

Judgement! I swear, every time I decide to judge my life decides to spontaneously combust - this time joined by my technology as well. I'm actually a very punctual person IRL, though you wouldn't know it from my work on this forum.

Anyway, here are your builds!
Originality:

I like the commitment to the draconic scholar theme. Every class of yours (save monk) touches on one of these two pillars, and one of your first level feats immediately brings them together, establishing the theme (though more on that in elegance).

What I'm not a fan of is the class structure. Well, obviously there isn't much to talk about entry class creativity here usually, but taking both classes is kind of funny to me. Halfling monk is cute, though not very well used IMO, and Strongheart halfling is not good here, obviously.

But at the end of the day, excepting halfling monk, every class level you have is either the SI or a casting progression class advancing your archivist T1 casting. And it's not like we're seeing you do all of this to pull of some weird tactic that's uniquely suitable to your build – aside from the thematic cohesion, most of this is made from bog-standard ingredients, even if they're a poor fit for what you can actually do. I'm never going to raise my eyebrows at someone telling me they use divine power and bite of X spells.

I will grant you that I haven't really seen singer of concordance feature before – which is strange. It's easy to enter, fully progresses casting, and has a third level ability which could be used in a whole bunch of fun ways – even if you don't really do anything with that. All this to say, the particular full adcancement classes you've picked aren't as bad here as they could've been.

Other than that… Craven is going to induce a huge eyeroll from me every time. As will persistomancy, so it's good you've left it as a sidenote. Your spell list is mostly standard even outside of the main spells you keep mentioning, but I'll give you a nod for summon giant, which is at least fun.

Overall, this build used extremely common/cheesy elements, and didn't utilize them to achieve anything innovative or unique. It is held aloft by the virtue of a strong theme and a couple of slightly unusual choices.

I guess that I should also give a nod (but no more than that) for archivist here. Even if it was obvious to every experienced person here what the 2 entry classes here, I recognize that for less experienced readers this would be surprising.

Score: 1.45 points.


Power:

What's up with skirmish, my man? You went for it immediately, and you mention it often – but not only is it never developed, you don't feature any way to use it consistently in combat. Your early levels breakdown mentions it and includes it in the damage calculations of your bite and your unarmed strike – but you feature no way to full attack after moving! Halfling monk and skirmish are almost entirely a waste here.

I also don't know where the +2 to damage is coming from in these level 5 calculations. Maybe you thought you had 12 STR? You have 10. I'll remind you that you're MAD as hell, which as you'll soon see is an issue that absolutely plagues your build. Whenever I complain about DCs and damage, that MADness is partly to blame.

So actually, your full attack routine, requiring a round of buffing, does 1d4+1d3 if both hit, for an average of 4.5 damage per round – the damage done by a strength 10 character hitting someone with a mundane longsword, except the longsword has a better chance to crit.

All of this to say, this character's breakdown heavily focuses on buffing and going into combat, but you suck at that up to level 8. Like, seriously terrible.

Granted, the following levels bring winds of change. Knowledge devotion is very helpful. Divine power is another round of buffing, but it's better than bite of the were-rat by virtue of full BaB alone, so you're still better than you were even if you don't have as many rounds to buff as you wish. Subtle ancestor can be helpful with a flanking body, and the swordsage dip further cements you as an actual combatant. 12 is an UGLY level for a martial dip, and oh boy will we cover that dip in elegance. Jesus christ. By the way, would not enjoy your sneak attack by virtue of making the enemy flat footed – that only happens after they take the damage, if it happens at all with your DC 15 fort save at that point. And it ends by the start of their next turn, so it only helps the party – you'll never be able to capitalize on it. It is the first time you've offered a tactic that can actually enjoy skirmish, so good for you on that front I guess.

Speaking of sneak attack – you're extremely reliant on a flank body, and you only get one natively once per encounter. You keep mentioning catching enemies flatfooted, but… You're reliant on 2 different round/level buffs and the dark knowledge move action. When are you ever going to catch your enemies flatfooted? This problem becomes even more severe the more your swift actions become crowded as you progress.

And where do you progress? Craven, as much as I dislike it, is a power bump, sure – but at the end of the day, you've peaked at 12. Some decent defensive options, excluding your capstone, which doesn't mesh with anything you do. You can't attack while using refuge, it's a once per combat defense at most. And since you want to take AOOs on anyone attacking you, and you don't have free or swift actions outside of your turn, you'd basically never use it. Aside from that… Nada. The same fourth level spells, the same sneak attack dice, same everything. The best thing you have for me at 20th level is an extremely mediocre attack routine relying on your hide/move silently, which without darkstalker has been completely useless for 5 levels if I'm being extremely generous.

Now, there are good things in this category, too. You're an excellent knowledge monkey, with lore and the SI to back you up. You have 4th level spells as a prepared caster from level 10. Even if your breakdowns keep focusing on buffing spells for your god awful combat routine of "buff for three rounds and then attack with all the might of a 6th level warrior with a longsword", that doesn't mean you can't cast utility spells, or just cast polymorph and turn into something useful. Defense also counts for something, and you've done a good job at that.

Overall, That's not enough to salvage this category for you, but you're far from getting a 1 here, like most of what I said my have implied – not with tier 1 casting that's only slightly stagnated during your first 10 levels, even if it goes nowhere after that.

Score: 2.25 points.


Elegance:

General boring stuff: you've sourced everything, good. I'm beginning to shift away from paying attention to things like the way a build flows from class to class, dipping, and the way levels are spread out – but I still penalize multiclass penalties. You have them from the get-go, and they get worse with the swordsage dip. But let’s move on to the actual build discussion.

Am I going insane?

Or do you straight up not qualify for draconic knowledge? It's one of your first level feats, it's extremely central to your build, and you just don't meet the prerequisites at all. I'm genuinely weirded out by this DQ – did you just like, forget draconic heritage?

Bigger oof: Where the maneuvers at, bro?! Again, am I going insane?! Why do I have to play your little puzzle in order to figure out what your basic class features are? You mention assasin's stance by name, but the rest – Shadow Garrote, cloak of deception, shadow jaunt, and distracting ember (I guess?) – I had to extrapolate those from your tactics section, and I'm still missing two maneuvers! WHY?


In regards to the 3rd level SLA that qualifies you for Paragnostic Apostle, if your DM randomly decides that you need to have called Eldritch Ancestor to actually have access and, therefore, qualify and make the build work, remind him that you still qualify for a PrC requiring 3rd level casting when you’re out of spells slots for the day. This ought to be enough to quell this silly argument.

Referencing a possible argument against your case and then calling it silly is in bad taste, IMO. No score reduction for that bad taste, of course, but still. If it's a bad silly argument that's incredibly obvious to anyone with a brain, don't even acknowledge it. If it isn't (and it isn't) don't call it silly and pretend like the answer is clear as sky. Your DM could kindly remind you that a wizard who retrained their wizard levels to fighter levels doesn't qualify, even if they could retrain back. That wouldn't be a perfectly analogous case, and I'd argue against it – but I'd argue that your analogy is even worse, and less similar to the situation at hand. What is the situation at hand exactly, by the way? Is it swapping an ancestor, or a touchstone site? My case stands for both, but I'm confused, which brings me to my next point:

Most of all, I don't know what the hell you're talking about in this section to begin with. Given that you're qualifying through healing waters of Abu-Ima (hilarious name to me, by the way) and immediately self-qualify through third level spells the moment you actually take the class – what do you even want? You just shoved a terrible argument presented badly into this entry for something your build doesn't even need/use. Weird vibes. My best guesses are either that these are remnants from a completely different version of the build, or you just forgot while working on the build that you can qualify for apostle with spells.

That second explanation might also explain your rant about being able to finally switch to the tomes of enlightenment. To be clear: I don't have any idea what you're talking about. I don't have a clue why you need an SLA with a high spell level for anything. My best guess is again, that you somehow forgot that you don't have to have an SLA for paragnostic apostle, because you can just… cast spells.

And let's talk about spells.

Archivist is always walking a dangerous line in these competitions. On the one hand, judges will always scoff at you for bookdiving for cheesy earlier-level spells, especially given the fact that this implies very excessive item reliance, which is penalized in elegance. The more exotic the spell, and the earlier you wish to get your hands on it, the harder it is to swallow that you've found/bought the right scroll.

This is similar to the issue you've suffered from in originality: in the end, playing with tier 1 is playing with fire. You need to make sure you've justified in other categories what you've lost there – and in the case of archivist exotic spells, what you lose here, too.

We have and will discuss the way these things went in other categories, but here we have a unique case of an extra issue in this category: either you're playing in a world in which druid-specific bite of the wererat scrolls are easily accessible at level 4, like mage armor scrolls made by clerics with the force domain and scrolls by disciples of Thyrm; Or you're playing in a world where an archivist adventurer could reasonably expect to rocket up the ladder of the Paragnostic Assembly by virtue of finding spells. You can't have both, you just can't.

Some smaller points:[list]
Language on lore of the gods not requiring you to be a cleric of a deity, just to worship it, is a good catch. Well done.
Mind over body doesn't work on polymorph. Replacing your ability modifier isn't the same as granting a bonus/penalty. Speaking of, and this doesn't come with an associated penalty: when choosing a class feature, please try to either note it in the build table or immediately upon taking the class in the breakdown. Having to find the knowledge is power feature you picked buried as an aside underneath recommended spells for these levels is not ideal.
In regards to craven, you claim that the first fear effect each day is null anyway because of singer of concordance. That's not true. Fear and compulsion are not the same thing.

Overall, this build is a giant mess on all fronts.

Score: 1.25 point.


UoSI:

This category can be a challenge for someone like you, who's nearly a full caster. This is because how well you used this class will always be partially affected by your obvious alternatives. It isn't the be-all-and-end-all of this category, not by a mile, and it doesn't mean you have to be more powerful than you would've been without it – but it does mean you're being held to a somewhat higher standard.

So, what do you do with the SI?

Well, as a 1/week ability, ancestral lore having backup is actually nice, and the investment in concentration makes sense regardless of it. That's nice. That logic, however, doesn’t apply to slippery mind IMO. Imagine someone with a 50% chance on average to pass a relevant will save. Slippery mind brings that down to 25%. That guy moved from being compelled half the time to a quarter of the time. That's a significant difference, that is going to come into play a lot. Let's say over time, that person's been subjected to 20 compulsion effects – the feature will block 5 of them.

You've already got a better anti-compulsion feature, and a pretty busted will save too. The amount of times you'll get compelled is pretty damn near 0 anyway. It never hurts to get extra defense, sure, but it's superfluous. Much more so than static bonuses, rerolls become more effective the more your chances are closer to 50-50. If you only succeed on a nat 20, a reroll is very rarely going to help. If you only fail on a nat 1, (and even that only from the second time onward each day that you've been subjected to a compulsion effect), a reroll is very rarely going to be necessary. I had a similar discussion with a contestant in the Crimson Scourge round, and I always hate to point this out, but you're getting treated here with "less than expected utility". Sorry.

Your "investment" into detect Dragonblood earns you a nod here. It's still useless and dumb, but it is there. You also deserve a nod for qualifying for Singer of Concordance with a prereq of the SI.

Let's talk ancestors. Unfortunately, I feel that over and over during this build you've made your ancestors irrelevant, redundant, or outright harmful. I wouldn't care about that as much if it was clear to me what you were doing in this class, if at least 1 or 2 ancestors were what you're all about.

Rampaging ancestor is again addressing an issue you don't really have (very high will), and is extremely counter-synergic with craven. Subtle ancestor is decent, and is your main focus in this build. You keep up the relevant skills, and have a bite to add to your full attacks – but you don't make enough of an effort to be able to sneak attack consistently, IMO, and that effort is mostly voided by needing two rounds of buffing for your basic combat utility. The only thing you actually use it for is craven – and by that point you've qualified for that with assassin's stance, anyway. You're in this awkward spot where you're not a full sneak attacker, but it isn't your only source (thus, not the thing allowing you to access craven). You have the skills, but no darkstalker. This is your best case for (mechanically) caring about the SI, and the result is just… kind of meh?

Eldritch ancestor is turned into a joke immediately by shadow garrote. Why would you give up on the advantages of another ancestor for a worse version of something you took independently? Eldritch ansector is solely useful as an anti-undead/construct option. Again, your build choices making the SI redundant and superfluous, instead of investing somewhere that'd compliment it.

Enduring ancestor is static defense. DR is mainly helpful as an alternative to AC, IMO, not as an addendum to it, but whatever. You get the expected use, basically, but nothing more than that. Granted, that's very hard to do with this particular ancestor, which is just "good numbers". Ancient ancestor – the only thing I can give you here is having good dex once you've boosted yourself. You don't make any further investment into AOO (excepting snap kick, which is completely dysfunctional so I'm ruling it out). Your only independent means of getting sneak attack only work for your turn. And again, you try your best to make it less useful by using refuge. Even if we're assuming you're flanking with a body, all an enemy needs to do in response is 5-foot step, and all you have going for you as a 20th level character after two rounds of buffing is 1d8 + okay static numbers. Less than expected utility.

Overall, I don't feel that you've invested at all in this SI. I mostly feel like you made a monk because you should, made an archivist because you could, and kind of went on from there without really thinking about what the class features actually do and how to support them. Rather, you just kept advancing casting, kept making (bad) advancements of your melee tactics, and hoped for the best.

Score: 1.7 points.


Total Score: 6.65 points.I'm sorry for such a bad score. I think I'm becoming a meaner judge as time goes on. I'm just doing my job the best I can, but I always feel bad criticizing the hard work of others so harshly. I want to talk a bit more about this entry in general.

I Loved the theme. I'm Conflicted about your presentation – some information is very clearly communicated and helpful, while some is hidden or straight up missing – and instead we have weird long rants about nothing, it seems. I deeply dislike how messy and inattentive this entry is, and how much it really is a big fat nothing sandwich when it comes to what I'm led to believe are your areas of focus – combat and the SI. This ingredient sucks, and I empathize with you – but this is an optimization competition, and I need more than a cool theme and 10 levels of the SI.

If I'm being honest, this reminds me of my first entry to the competition ever, back in the atavist round, with Anadina the Mad. Strong investment in the theme, trying to pay attention to each class feature – but in the end, not really optimizing anything, and focusing on unique new options I found exciting at the time (in my case, VoP and Cloistered Cleric devotion feat swap) rather than on actually doing anything interesting with what the SI had to offer. I worked around the SI more than I worked for it.

This entry is better than Anadina, and shows a far deeper familiarity with the material and a better eye for character building, but in the end, it's the same issue. Add that to rules sloppiness, accidental counter-synergy, and serious presentation issues, and you come out with a bad score. Again, I'm sorry about that. I'm sure you will do (and have done) better on flashier ingredients that can actually spark the imagination.

Better luck next time!

Originality:

Yet another MAD halfling monk sneaking around snap-kicking people? Well, I won't hold it against you. Hope you do better here than the last one.

Fluff is short and sweet. I like how deeply entrenched it is in Eberron lore.

Monk, of course, is expected, but I can't say I thought about DFA – even though it seems obvious, now that I look at it.

The trick with Nosomatic Chirurgeon is something I've been aware of since Killer Mike (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?620730-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CVI&p=24781580&viewfull=1#post24781580) back in the Disciple of Mammon round, but it's still creative, and I can't say that it sprung to my mind here. Nice – it makes for unconventional tactics using unconventional materials to do so.

Feat choices are a mixed bag here, and we'll talk more about some of them in later categories. Overall, it's a positive.

Overall, not bad at all. Pretty creative stuff. Nothing here that blows my mind, but a couple that would have if I was a newer judge, which counts for something at least.

Score: 3.75 points.


Power:

Your early levels are great. Entangling exhaltation at 1, HiPS and soulwarp strike at 3… But how well do you hold up?

The eldritch ancestor trick is… decent. At the end of the day, it isn't enough damage to be super impactful; It's just half a point better on average than the ranged option, and it hinders your action economy – though it does play nice with skirmish. It's a nice option to have, but with so much effort poured into it, I feel kind of sad that the damage is so mediocre. Even loading it into an unarmed strike will sometimes prove not worth the effort – moving from touch AC to normal AC will occassionally prove a bad trade, even with the added benefit. I think you should've dipped Noso 1 much, much earlier, but I get wanting to avoid that.

As an aside: Since judging Killer Mike, I've come to the conclusion that the best use of this combo would be duskblade 13, Noso 1, Disciple of Mammon 3, Something 3, with mastery of day and night and perhaps the TWF tree. That relies on the interpretation that duskblade 13 can affect the same character multiple times, but it's solid other than that. There's probably a better source of at-will 4th or higher SLA out there, but DoM is the best of the ones I've checked.

Your side gig as a healer is cute. It's a useful tool to have for emergencies once you get your hands on heal, but you're no healer, truly. I appreciate the slightly improved action economy, though.

Hiding is great, but it's not backed up by anything. It's awesome in combat, but you don't have the skill support to also be a pseudo rogue/ranger.

But at the end of the day, you're pretty trash as a combatant, I think. Noso comes too late for its DCs to be relevant, most healing comes too late, Your damage is low… You've made a focused build and it's clear what you're about and how you approach combat, but you're just sort of trash. I think cutting down on Noso levels, turning it into a far earlier 1 level dip, and then finding some actual martial prowess with your remaining 4 levels could've made for a much more compelling build in this catrgory.


Overall, you have excellent early-game, and you're being held aloft by Blend into shadows, but most of your options come weak or come late. You sort of suck a little bit.

Score: 1.6 points.


Elegance:

Simplicity does not equal elegance, and I care less and less about dipping and completing PRCs as time goes on – but completing 2 PRCs, and moving neatly from one class to another throughout your career is still nice.

Anyway: this build pulls off some real RAW nonsense to HiPS as a swift action at will. But does it work? I had a longer paragraph here before losing my file about whether or not you can sacrifice a "use" of an at-will SLA, which is a trick you pull twice in this build. The conclusion was that language in the SRD section on SLAs ( [url=https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities) leans in your favor, implying at-will is "infinite uses" rather than "NA uses".
A spell-like ability usually has a limit on how often it can be used. A spell-like ability that can be used at will has no use limit. So, good job on that front! Having two central options in your build relying on the same clever rules interaction definitely earns you points here. I'm always a fan of strict RAW readings that manage to work out without a hitch. But speaking of RAW nonsense, there are a few things we have to address.

So, maybe you've already encountered this judging tool I use with entries like this. I call it "Live By The RAW, Die By The RAW". Basically, it means that when building an entry, you can say "It's stupid, but it's RAW" or you can say "well, RAI is clearly this," and "Any reasonable DM would rule that…" – but you can't do both.

That means that if you're going to look me in the eyes and tell me about you hiding in the area of magical darkness concealed within your own underwear, then don't complain when I tell you that Nosomatic Chirurgeon doesn't advance your invocations.

Well, probably.

Nosomatic Chrurgeon has some very unusual language regarding its spell advancement.
If you have no levels in any spellcasting class, this class grants you the spellcasting ability of the adept (DMG 107) from 1st to 4th level. You do not gain levels in the adept class nor any of the other features of that class, but simply adopt that class's spellcasting progression and spell list as the spellcasting ability of this class.

There's an argument to be made about which is the specific and which is the general rule, enough for me not to drop the hammer here, but I'd say your case is definitely weaker. You could try to claim that getting both is an option, but the bolded sentence clearly states that the adept casting replaces the normal features. Now, obviously, there's a case to be made that 5th level adept spellcasting is actually better than see the unseen and humanoid shape, but this isn't power – it's elegance, and this whole mess is not elegant.

So, that's it about Nosomatic Chirurgeon, but it's not it when it comes to problematic RAW in your build. Let's talk about snap kick.

To me, snap kick works pretty clearly RAI: Once on your turn, when using an action to make melee attack(s), you can make 1 additional unarmed strike. You have to declare doing so before making any attacks, and take -2 to hit for the round. Essentially, it's Flurry of Blows unchained. You'll note that IMO, RAI does not support snap kicks on AoOs. You didn't explicitly call those out, but I'm mentioning them here.

However, Samantha can't appeal to RAI anyway. She appeals to RAW. So, what is the RAW of snap kick?


When you make a melee attack with one or more melee weapons (including a standard attack, full attack, or even a strike maneuver), you can make an additional attack at your highest attack bonus. This attack is an unarmed attack that deals damage equal to your base unarmed attack damage + 1/2 your Str bonus. You take a -2 penalty on all attack rolls you make this round.
There is no such thing as a melee attack with more than one melee weapon. But the "or" would mean the feat would be fine, if that was the only issue. Much more importantly though, a full attack cannot be "included" in a list of melee attacks, as it isn't one. The feat is wrong about itself. RAW, it's nonsensical. Taking "melee attack" as the authoritative part and ignoring or trying to smooth over everything else is IMHO going beyond the realm of RAW interpretation, and into adjudication. Houseruling. There is no readable RAW of snap kick, IMO. I know many disagree, and think of the "including" section being wrong as trivial, and not at the core of the feat. Others will try to frame the RAI as RAW, and ignore the "melee attack" predicator. I disagree.

On a side note, I also find it interesting that the (very common) reading that allows snap kick on AoO cannot find any reasonable way to avoid snap kick granting snap kick other than "it obviously isn't sensible."

Either way, whether or not you try to pull off a permissive reading or not, you still have this RAW black hole in the middle of your RAW-Reliant build, so it's a penalty.

Other than all of this mess, we also have the issue with sourcing Saurial. It's a smaller issue, but if something is your combat form when your build hits its peak, you should source it. This isn’t just me being strict: your combat form is buried in the last page of a serpent kindgdoms web enhancement I didn't even know existed, which is also cross-setting material. I feel like this entire thing could've been handled better here.

Overall, a lot of cleanliness and cleverness that would otherwise give you big wins here save you from the disgrace of how bad it could've gone.

Elegance score increased due to dispute.

Score: 2.5 points 3.25 points.


UoSI:

Pretty strong category for you.

You have a very good case for expanding on eldritch ancestor, converting it into a melee option. This gives you significantly more versatility. Even if it didn't shine too bright in power, it does very well here. I'd also say that your Noso tactics in general mean you have more reason to attack unarmed than most. I'll give you a nod for the cute synergy with just general monk stuff from the SI.

Subtle ancestor gets better than expected use – the HiPS and Darkstalker combo comes early and helps you both benefit from the skill bonus and enable the sneak attack. Good stuff. The rest gets about expected utility from you, but optimizing two ancestors and being able to use the rest efficiently is great.

Overall, a good fit for most f the SI with excellent ways to enable one ancestor and to greatly expand another.

Score: 4.35 points.


Total Score: 12.95 points. Samantha features good attention to the SI, but is hindered by a lack of attention to the fine letters on a build that's based on fine letters, and fails to truly utilize every level and feat at her disposal to follow up on the strong premise. We couldn't see eye to eye here. My general point stands, but is irrelevant to the way you attempted to build this.

Originality:

On the one hand, wow. Seriously, wow. I've had Modrons on my mind lately, what with a Quinton showing up on oots, but still, I would've never thought of something like this in a million years. Incredible.

On the other hand, this is just a psion (One of the strongest T2 classes, IMO) with some SI taped on top as a joke. Like, what you've managed to achieve is impressive, but the fact that you achieved it with "just get 9ths lol" isn't playing in your favor here.

I've had a way longer rant explaining myself here originally, and clarifying in different ways that this isn't "penalizing for power", but I don't have it in me to rewrite it right now, and I think you get where I'm coming from.

Overall… not much to talk about except "Full caster manifester 17" on the one hand and "the madman actually did it" on the other. Psychic meditation is weird.

Score: 4.1 points.


Power:

So, obviously, you start off a bit on the weak side for a psion, but you get to the good stuff soon enough, and at the end we're talking about a straight psion here, all the way to 9ths – even if just one 9th.

Powers are sort of a mixed bag. Not having the feat space for expanded knowledge puts you at a disadvantage, sure, but some of your picks are just… weird. 7th level is full of absolute bangers, and as an egoist you can get fission. And you choose… Sequester? You never explain why, and it's weird. Other choices are suboptimal, but adapted to the secundus form. And let's talk about that.

200 xp cost. That alone makes half your feats and 3 of your levels extremely situational. To be a Secundus 10+ hours per day, you'd have to sacrifice an absolutely insane amount of xp.

True metamorphosis is, therefore, very situational. You can use it here and there as a combat buff, when you can afford the action economy – but you can't be adventuring as a secundus. It's also… still built on top of a half BaB chassis, you know. In those terms, going foe Egoist 8/ Slayer 10/ SI 2 would've been far better – but if we start removing SI levels from this build, we wouldn't stop, so I get why you didn't go there.

Overall, you've got a slightly unoptimized psion with 3 dead levels and a trick that doesn't quite work. That's still very good.

Score: 4.65 points.


Elegance:

Well, you know by this point that I don't hold to the "Elegance=Simplicity" view, but if I would, going straight egoist for seventeen levels would surely help you. Everything is sourced excellently. Powers are slightly subpar (you'd do better pointing out which ones are from which book) but I don't really have an issue with that.

What I do have an issue with is qualifying for the class. It's always a headache when you take something you only qualify for occasionally. Some things I'll nearly always let slide – if you're a druid you're in wild shape most of the time, so leveling up "while" in wild shape makes sense. This though? Every time you use your trick to qualify, you're pushed further from leveling up. I guess the duration is enough to say you win a combat while in Secundus form, and level up? I'm not killing your build here, but that's ugly.

Stacking psion levels with effective monk levels is clever. It circumvents the argument about whether or not you can stack with 0 levels of monk, and it's a good way to actually utilize being a Secundus. Nice! In general, I feel like every feat in the build has one of two uses: better monk **** or doing monk **** for longer, by being a better psion. The only exception is Dragontouched, which is a prereq. Good stuff.

That's a good point to mention the effective character levels. I think you're within a fair interpretation of RAW, but having to independently update to 3.5, and ignoring the actual text of the combat section for an explanation that shows up in what's commonly referred to as "fluff text" definitely leaves you vulnerable. Your reading of Modron is 100% within RAI, I think, but that hardly matters here, of course.

Aging is a slap on the wrist from me, personally.

Overall, mostly good stuff standing on shaky ground.

Score: 3.4 points.


UoSI:

Never have I come closer to giving someone a 0 in this category. This was hilarious. You won the bet! Well done.

Score: 1 point.


Total Score: 13.15. You knew what you wanted, and you went for it. But even once you've achieved it, you still devoted time and effort to make everything come together as nicely as you could. I'm always a fan of that. Well done!

Originality:

Gods, I haven't thought about that in years. Earlier Youtube was wild, I tell you. The plane bit got me, well done.

Devoted defender was something I played with when I tried building for this, as often with tanky ingredients, but using it on a mount was not something I saw coming. Human monk is, of course, the baseline, and generally dipping ToB is to be expected in martial oriented SIs.

However, the particulars are definitely unique, and not just the "Designate mount as charge so I my attack can be designated as charge on mount" thing. Clarion commander? Undermountain tactics? What is this?

Overall, mixing up somewhat common ingredients to create a very unique cocktail. Well done.

Score: 4.5 points.


Power:

Contrary to what you may have heard, size does matter. That is, as mentioned in elegance, you only get highground against medium or smaller enemies, and you can only overrun large or smaller enemies – because as you've established, it's you doing the overrunning, not Mhia. That's a very limiting factor.

You also have to reckon with the fact that Mhia's overrun bonus isn't that great. I disagree that you had to go with run and endurance, but even if I didn’t: where's mauling gauntlets? Where's improved overrun? Do you know what can happen to you at the event if failure? Disastrous.

So, the combo is kind of limited: it only works on large or smaller opponents (medium or smaller, ideally), doesn't work on flatfooted opponents or opponents who've already expended their AoO, and risks an opponent throwing you off your horse far too often. Which, with the 5 feet back rule, might also mean you can no longer protect that amazing creature.

It's also less potent than you make it out to be, I think: the rules for mounted combat say "If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge." Overrun happens while moving, which is decidedly not at the end of a charge. It'd also probably require 2 targets to work – one to charge, one to overrun on the way – and they'd have to be aligned properly.

All this, however, also assumes that the combo works at all, which I'm not fully buying. I'm questioning myself just enough to still give you credit in this category, but we're certainly about to have a discussion in elegance.

Other than the combo… I mean, power attacking with a two handed weapon is a good chassis, mounted charge is a good chassis. You can do damage. You can play defender, when not busy defending your amazing mount. That role would play very well with your decisive strike. You're good at supporting a melee party.

Giving up monking has its advantages, I guess.

Score: 3.35 points.


Elegance:

Trading places with your mount because you RAW share the same space anyway is brilliant. Nothing says you need to dismount or anything. It's a very cool find. Undermountain tactics is also cool. I did know being mounted counted as high ground (though only against enemies smaller than your mount) but I never made the connection. Neat!

I'm also a big fan of how focused the build is, how efficient it is, and how everything comes together. I'm also a big fan of your presentation here! So very clear, and sourced so comfortably. Great! Not a dead level or feat in the thing.

As I've elaborated before, class background is always going to be a very harsh penalty from me. It's an optional rule, explicitly stating that it should not be used on one character and not the others to avoid an uneven playing ground. It's a flaw, basically. Having a truly excellent fluff justification for it in the source material doesn't fix the issue.

I was ready to get all smug with telling you Thicket of Blades is third level, and per the RAW you were obligated to take a first level stance, live by the RAW die by the RAW, etc. Then you went and paid attention to that, and didn't even take thicket of blades. Well done.

A slap on the wrist for giving me a Mhia summary instead of (even a quick) table. What are the rest of her skill points? Could be relevant. Where are her ability bonuses at every fourth HD going? I would assume strength, but I shouldn't have to assume.

Hate the rules compendium ruling. Stupid. I've tried putting together an argument for trample not actually giving you the hoof attack, but I can't stand by it as a legitimate interpretation of RAW. However, I completely disagree with the interpretation that you can hoof someone you knocked down with undermountain tactics. That sentence is predicated on the previous one. If you ignore that predication, you might as well say your mount gets a hoof attack against anyone you trip, even if it's a 1000 miles away. No.

Okay, I've strained you enough. Why do I doubt the combo? Well, mounted combat, as you know, has this rule:
If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack.

Now, what does that mean? Can you not make any more attacks, ever? One per round? One per turn? One per action? Or is it just a way to phrase the "no full attacks" rule following it? (Psst! It's these 2 last interpretations that you want!)

It's ambiguous, but the usual interpretation would be "per round" or "per turn". Not solid enough to void your trick entirely, but it still leaves you with a serious penalty in elegance.

Overall, beautiful build dealing with some serious issues. Could've still done great here if it wasn't for class background. I kind of wanted to waive it away here, but I have to be fair.

Score: 3.4 points.


UoSI:

I swear, I want to give this build more credit here. But in the end… It's about harm's way. It's about clarion's call. It's about trample. The extra attack from ancient ancestor? It's the third one. It's icing on the cake. It's very good icing, but no more than that. Enduring ancestor gets better than expected use by knowing that you're going to get opportunity attacked very often, sure. And you have the constant flanking thing for subtle ancestor, but you're not a full attacker, you don't have the damage delivery system to make it work. I guess you're making better than expected use of rampaging ancestor? Static bonuses are better on mounted chargers and power attackers, after all.

But you don't make use of the monk abilities or the trash, and you're not really elevating the ancestors enough to fully make up for that.

Don't get me wrong – you're doing alright here. But at first glance, this build felt to me like it should do amazingly here – and it doesn't.

Score: 3.75 points.


Total Score: 15 points. Do narwhals next.

Thanks for participating, guys! This was a tough ingredient, and I'm very glad you all stepped up!

[The Viscount]

This week is going to be busy for me, so I'm going to say chefs have until 13:59 Saturday October 1st for disputes, if any. If everything wraps up earlier I may be able to do the reveal during the week, depending on the whims of fate.

[Zaq]

Name Alignment / Race Class Levels Chef Judge 1: Inevitability Judge 2: H_H_F_F Total Place
Noah Itall (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564608&postcount=41) L(?)N Strongheart Halfling Invisible Eye Style Halfling Monk 1/Archivist 4/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Singer of Concordance 3/Dragon Descendant 10/Swordsage 1 14.00 6.65 20.65 4th
Samantha d'Jorasco (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564613&postcount=42) L? Halfling Dragonfire Adept 2/Soulwarp Strike Halfling Monk 3/Dragon Descendant 10/Nosomatic Chirurgeon 5 16.50 12.95 29.45 2nd
Naughty Loafer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564618&postcount=43) CN Changeling Changeling Egoist 17/Dragon Descendant 3 13.00 13.15 26.15 3rd
Mr. Neighsayer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564626&postcount=44) LN Human " Overwhelming Attack Style Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Monk 3/Fighter 2/Dragon Descendant 10/Devoted Defender 2/Crusader 3" 14.75 15 29.75 1st

Thank you very much for judging, H_H_F_F! Very thorough and fun to read.

Updated 2022-09-27

[The Viscount]

Thank you very much for your efforts.

One dispute for you H_H_F_F.



Hiding is great, but it's not backed up by anything. It's awesome in combat, but you don't have the skill support to also be a pseudo rogue/ranger.
Both judges mentioned this and I have to say I don't really understand the criticism? On this build, hiding is a combat strategy, and sometimes, as a bonus, it might also allow for sneaking past enemies to bypass an encounter sometimes. Can't a girl just put points in invisibility without suddenly being expected to also pick locks, disarm traps, and find secret doors? :smallfrown:


So, maybe you've already encountered this judging tool I use with entries like this. I call it "Live By The RAW, Die By The RAW". Basically, it means that when building an entry, you can say "It's stupid, but it's RAW" or you can say "well, RAI is clearly this," and "Any reasonable DM would rule that…" – but you can't do both.

That means that if you're going to look me in the eyes and tell me about you hiding in the area of magical darkness concealed within your own underwear, then don't complain when I tell you that Nosomatic Chirurgeon doesn't advance your invocations.
How is this hinging on a RAW technicality? Blend into Shadows doesn't let you hide in darkness. It lets you hide in plain sight when you are near darkness. You don't have to be in or concealed by the darkness. You don't even have to be adjacent to the darkness. The flavor text of the feat is "You can draw from nearby magical shadow to cloak yourself in darkness." Draw from. It's a source of power, not a source of concealment. I mean, half the point of the effect is that you don't need concealment.

Do you mean that using it with an at-will SLA is RAW abuse? It seems to me like that's clearly RAI, and the nitpicky reading is the "Actually, it doesn't technically have uses, so you can't expend one" version, not the "Sure, you have unlimited uses, so obviously you can use it unlimited times" version.

In short, the RAI is clearly this, any reasonable DM would rule that, and I will absolutely 100% live and die by RAI here. Please, by all means, judge me accordingly.


There's an argument to be made about which is the specific and which is the general rule, enough for me not to drop the hammer here, but I'd say your case is definitely weaker. You could try to claim that getting both is an option, but the bolded sentence clearly states that the adept casting replaces the normal features. Now, obviously, there's a case to be made that 5th level adept spellcasting is actually better than see the unseen and humanoid shape, but this isn't power – it's elegance, and this whole mess is not elegant.
Again, I will happily live by RAI and die by RAI. The RAI here is that a dragonfire adept who takes a prestige class with "+1 level of existing (arcane) spellcasting class" does not gain the normal benefit of that spellcasting advancement, and instead gains +1 level of invocations and breath weapons. Nosomatic chirurgeon offers "+1 level of spellcasting advancement," so DFA kicks in and replaces that ability with DFA advancement at the appropriate levels. That's RAI, and it's how I presented the build.

If you do want to talk RAW, it's possible you may have had this discussion before in regards to warlock, and that would be fair, if I were using warlock. With warlock, the wording on the advancement rules is more ambiguous. But the rules for dragonfire adept explicitly say to ignore the normal effect of the "+1 level of spellcasting," whatever the specifics of its text may be, and advance invocations instead. So, the RAW lines up with the RAI, which is that you ignore the part about adept casting and advance DFA. If you want to argue that the line about adept spellcasting still applies since it's separate from the regular casting advancement, so it shouldn't be ignored by DFA, then fine, but all that results in is Samantha getting both progressions, since the adept casting never says anything along the lines of "instead" or "rather than." And even if the DM somehow ruled against both RAI (which says you advance DFA only) and RAW (which also says you advance DFA only) and said the adept casting replaces the DFA advancement—so what? Adept casting is still totally fine for Samantha. It enables spell trigger items, and she's high enough level at that point to be buying a kickass staff. The bottom line is the ruling doesn't matter, because no matter what interpretation you land on, it's good for this character.


Now, obviously, there's a case to be made that 5th level adept spellcasting is actually better than see the unseen and humanoid shape, but this isn't power – it's elegance, and this whole mess is not elegant.
I mean, I don't know what else you want from me here. I presented the build under the reading that is the most conservative in power level, the most closely aligned with RAI, and the most closely aligned with RAW, and I also built in such a way that the build doesn't lose any power in the theoretical scenario where the DM rules it another way. What's inelegant about that? Am I getting penalized because I included material that some people think is dysfunctional, even though nothing in my build is reliant on that dysfunction, and the dysfunction in question is dubious to begin with?


Much more importantly though, a full attack cannot be "included" in a list of melee attacks, as it isn't one. The feat is wrong about itself. RAW, it's nonsensical. Taking "melee attack" as the authoritative part and ignoring or trying to smooth over everything else is IMHO going beyond the realm of RAW interpretation, and into adjudication. Houseruling. There is no readable RAW of snap kick, IMO. I know many disagree, and think of the "including" section being wrong as trivial, and not at the core of the feat. Others will try to frame the RAI as RAW, and ignore the "melee attack" predicator. I disagree.
Once again, I challenge you to come up with a version of the RAW where Snap Kick is not beneficial to Samantha. She really doesn't care exactly how the DM interprets it because there's no possible reading where she can't get extra attacks out of it. Honestly, I don't even understand the supposed dysfunction that you're complaining about? If there's no way to interpret Snap Kick so that it doesn't grant infinite attacks...okay? Sure? That's obviously amazing for Samantha, because it means she has infinite attacks and can easily OTK all her enemies. If you're saying that that's cheese and shouldn't be allowed...also okay? I wasn't even expecting it to be allowed, and I certainly wasn't arguing that it should be allowed. One extra attack per turn is awesome. If you want to say that the "one or more melee weapons" clause means it doesn't trigger off of unarmed attacks, since they're made without any weapons, that's not a problem; Samantha is perfectly happy to use a manufactured weapon for her main attack. If you want to say that it doesn't work on opportunity attacks...I mean, it's a weird ruling, but whatever, I wasn't invested in that trick (as you identified). However, if you're arguing that the feat somehow loopholes itself into having no effect whatsoever...well, no offense, but I can't imagine how any good-faith reading of the text could arrive at that conclusion. Even when rules contradict themselves, they don't just vanish in a puff of logic. You throw to the DM, the DM picks one of the conflicting rules to override the other, and the game chugs forward.

I guess it's just a little strange that you seem to be putting all these dysfunctions in my mouth? I just want to use Snap Kick the way it's intended to be used and make one extra unarmed attack when I attack with my weapon. I never expected or argued for any shenanigans. In fact, I deliberately hewed as closely to RAI as I possibly could in all aspects of the build. I don't understand why you're judging me on all these seemingly irrelevant RAW questions when my entry never mentioned any of them and literally doesn't even care about the answers one way or the other.

Like, if I had a section in my build about how I'm strategically using low-light vision to double the effective area of my darkness invocation, then you would probably have something to say about that. But I'm not using that trick, and it would be super weird if you saw darkness in my table and then just decided that my build must be inelegant because the rules for magical darkness don't work properly. Similarly, if I submitted a warmage build based on channeling shocking grasp and poison through unarmed strikes, you wouldn't complain in elegance that chill touch is completely dysfunctional and broken and dock me points because warmages happen to automatically have access to it.

Also, you can't dock me points in elegance for using Snap Kick because you think it grants me an infinite kick loop, and then also dock me points in power because I'm not strong enough in combat. Am I one-shotting everything or not? Make up your mind!


Samantha features good attention to the SI, but is hindered by a lack of attention to the fine letters on a build that's based on fine letters, and fails to truly utilize every level and feat at her disposal to follow up on the strong premise.
TL;DR nothing whatsoever in this build is "based on fine letters," and you can take that to the bank.

[H_H_F_F]

Full response will take a bit, I'm celebrating the new year with friends. At a glance, I feel like I didn't make myself clear enough. Sorry about that, Samantha! It seems like our core disagreement is about whether or not your build tries to rely on clearly nonsensical RAW or not. Most everything you point out comes down to that, or to me clearly not communicating myself to well.

I'll look into your claim that the HiPS trick is within RAI and "reasonable DM" territory. If I come out on your side, most of what you've complained about is gone anyway.

Shana Tova!

[H_H_F_F]

Before we get into the thick of it, I wanted to comment on this:
Both judges mentioned this and I have to say I don't really understand the criticism? On this build, hiding is a combat strategy, and sometimes, as a bonus, it might also allow for sneaking past enemies to bypass an encounter sometimes. Can't a girl just put points in invisibility without suddenly being expected to also pick locks, disarm traps, and find secret doors?
I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I mentioned it isn't that it was penalized in anyway. It was like: "okay, you're getting credit for this unique combat tactic, but if you think you also get some skill monkey points out of it, you aren't really; you'd need more investment for that". You're not expected to have anything, I'm just clarifying that you don't. Another chef in your position might have thought they built an excellent sneak, without thinking about the other aspects required of such a character to function.

This is also a good example of an issue with my style of judgement, that has shown up a couple of times in this dispute: I talk too much. It has its benefits, but sometimes it makes it hard to know what's a criticism, what's a thought on the build, and what's an interesting aside. I think the upsides are worth it: you get a deep dive into my thoughts on the specifics of your build, and I personally think there's something reassuring about a judgement where the judge clearly put a lot of thought into what I was doing – but it can get confusing. Sorry about that.

Another clarification before we get into the thick of it is about snap kick. I probably muddied the water with this:
On a side note, I also find it interesting that the (very common) reading that allows snap kick on AoO cannot find any reasonable way to avoid snap kick granting snap kick other than "it obviously isn't sensible."
Note that this is a side note about yet another major weakness of the "clearly this works on an AoO" argument, which you weren't (explicitly) making. My point here isn't "snap kick is broken because it gives you infinite attacks". My point is "snap kick is broken because it doesn't speak in actual game terms." That's why I used the phrase "RAW black hole". In my view, snap kick is as much of a functional feat as a feat saying "you can use a quick action to expend one of your wizard magics to increase the threshold of the next magic you do by an amount equal to the spell points of the magic sacrificed". Sure, it's pretty clear what the RAI here is – but RAW, it's just utter nonsense. I don't need to come up with an interpretation of RAW that's bad to Samantha, because my position here is there is no legitimate interpretation of RAW here.

Somewhat similar case for adept casting. The point wasn't "you get adept casting", the point was "RAW is murky".

Anyway, let's get into the majority of your dispute: at the end of the day, the case you make is that you don't have to die by the RAW, because you don't live by it; in other words, that you built this PC to be completely functional in real tables, playing by presumed RAI and common sense.

I have to admit that I'm a tad surprised by this revelation.
And if you don’t want to be surrounded by a blob of dim light all the time, just cast darkness on your underwear. Your clothes will block the emanation, and nobody can say there isn’t an area of magical darkness within 10 feet of you. To me, this read as very tongue in cheek, and clearly broadcasted to be a "but the rule technically never says…" sort of argument. So now that it's been clarified that this was a completely serious, non-tongue-in-cheek suggestion, I have to ask myself: is it sensible?

The question of the "sensible DMness" of sacrificing at-will abilities is… questionable, IMO. Iffy. The language of blend into shadows, for example, clearly assumes you have limited daily uses. But even if it didn't, I'd say there's definitely weirdness there. These are abilities requiring you to sacrifice something, and you end up getting something for nothing. It's an argument waiting to happen, IMO. RAW is ironclad on your side, but I'd say a small penalty for slight shenangians would be in place if I were to judge you by that metric.

No, the real question is drawing shadows from your underwear to hide yourself in. The very premise of it, with assuming your clothes would block LoE, got me thinking you knew you were pulling some nonsense. Guess I was wrong. Let's just assume you're carrying a darkness pebble in a small meral container hung on a necklace, or something. You have magical darkness with completely blocked of LoE on your person at all times.

You say this:
Draw from. It's a source of power, not a source of concealment. I mean, half the point of the effect is that you don't need concealment. Which I don't fully agree with. You don't Draw some magical energy, "power", from magical shadow. You just "Draw from magical shadow". I think that clearly means what you draw is… well, magical shadow. If I have to "draw from the waters of the well" what I draw is water, not life essence.

This distinction is semi-important, because it helps me strengthen why I see this reading as clever RAW manipulation rather than normal play. It would still be relevant with magical energy, but it helps visualize it when we remember it's shadow – and I mean, the feat is called "blend into shadows" – are you really trying to sell me on the intent being no magical darkness or shadow involved? You're drawing shadows from a source near you. They're moving to you. In a sensible game, they'd need to be able to do that, IMO.

I originally read your build as essentially saying "See how clever I am? They only mentioned range, they forgot LoE!" which to me is clearly assumed.

I want to make it clear: I'm not trying to "bust" you here. As a DM, in a normal, casual game, I wouldn't let that fly – and not for balance reasons, but because it would feel to me like rules lawyering that doesn't fit the way that magical ability should work. I'd just say "nah, I'm ruling this as requiring LoE, that's clearly how it's [meant to/ supposed to/ should] work."

But what's new here is that even though I see this, as the end of the day, as a fine-letter reliant build, you didn't see it that way. I can't take the fact that this build isn't reliant on fine print to the bank, because I disagree.

Now, this is putting me in a weird spot I haven't been in before, I don't think. Because I obviously can't judge your build as having an illegal element here (it's completely legal), and I also don't feel like I can tell you "live by the RAW, die by the RAW" – because it doesn't seem fait to hold you to a standard you didn't "sign up for". But the fact remains that the end product as I see it is one that still tries to dance in both weddings, whether or not that was intended. It's still a build that, IMHO, has to appeal to both strict RAW and to sensible, presumed RAI DMing.

Best I can give you, I guess, is what you sort of asked for. Essentially, the opposite of "live by the RAW". I'm going to remove all the penalties associated with rules-weirdness in this build, but I'm also going to take away some of the praise for "clever rules interactions", and add penalties for iffyness on the stuff we disagree on.

This isn't something I like doing. To me, RAW takes precedence, and I personally hate getting an elegance penalty for using what I think is Ironclad RAW just because it'd start an argument at a real table. I also don't really have a strong metric to do that, because I don't do that. But in this particular instance, it doesn't seem like I have a sensible choice. I'm not a fan of this approach, and I hope to never have to take it again – but with the obvious assumption of good faith on your side, it seems like the fairest option,
-1.0
+1.75
Grand total: +0.75 elegance

Ugh. Such a mess. I'm sorry my judgement obviously rubbed you the wrong way – I hope we can see eye to eye on these subjects in the future!

Original judgement post will be updated with the new elegance score in a moment.

[H_H_F_F]

Also, since I didn't say this: if they weren't on the pedestal, my HM would go to naughty loafer.

[Zaq]

Table updated accordingly. Thanks again H_H_F_F!

[The Viscount]

One follow up.



I originally read your build as essentially saying "See how clever I am? They only mentioned range, they forgot LoE!" which to me is clearly assumed.

I want to make it clear: I'm not trying to "bust" you here. As a DM, in a normal, casual game, I wouldn't let that fly – and not for balance reasons, but because it would feel to me like rules lawyering that doesn't fit the way that magical ability should work. I'd just say "nah, I'm ruling this as requiring LoE, that's clearly how it's [meant to/ supposed to/ should] work."
It sounds like you misunderstood my suggestion. I never said it doesn't require LoE. The whole point of putting the darkness under your clothing, rather than in a box or backpack or something, is so that it is right up against your skin, with no barrier in the way. Imagine casting darkness on a pebble, placing it inside a birdcage, then throwing a blanket over the birdcage. Does the canary inside the birdcage have line of effect to the darkness? Answer: Yes. Even though the darkness is blocked by a barrier, that barrier only breaks line of effect for creatures on the opposite side of it. The canary and the pebble are both underneath the blanket together, so their line of effect to one another is unimpeded.


No, the real question is drawing shadows from your underwear to hide yourself in. The very premise of it, with assuming your clothes would block LoE, got me thinking you knew you were pulling some nonsense. Guess I was wrong. Let's just assume you're carrying a darkness pebble in a small meral container hung on a necklace, or something. You have magical darkness with completely blocked of LoE on your person at all times.
No, you wouldn't put it into a metal container, because then it doesn't have LoE to you. You and the darkness should both be under the same covering together.


Which I don't fully agree with. You don't Draw some magical energy, "power", from magical shadow. You just "Draw from magical shadow". I think that clearly means what you draw is… well, magical shadow. If I have to "draw from the waters of the well" what I draw is water, not life essence.

This distinction is semi-important, because it helps me strengthen why I see this reading as clever RAW manipulation rather than normal play. It would still be relevant with magical energy, but it helps visualize it when we remember it's shadow – and I mean, the feat is called "blend into shadows" – are you really trying to sell me on the intent being no magical darkness or shadow involved? You're drawing shadows from a source near you. They're moving to you. In a sensible game, they'd need to be able to do that, IMO.
Shadow is a magical power source in D&D, but the distinction is only semantic here. The main concern is that a traditional darkness centered on you provides concealment to people around you, annoying your allies and blocking your precision damage. If the shadows move to cover just you, without creating an area of concealment around you, then that's mission accomplished, and the strategy worked.

And no, I'm not trying to sell you on the intent being no magical darkness or shadow involved. You need to have the darkness invocation active within 10 feet of you to use the feat. That was never in dispute.


My point is "snap kick is broken because it doesn't speak in actual game terms." That's why I used the phrase "RAW black hole". In my view, snap kick is as much of a functional feat as a feat saying "you can use a quick action to expend one of your wizard magics to increase the threshold of the next magic you do by an amount equal to the spell points of the magic sacrificed". Sure, it's pretty clear what the RAI here is – but RAW, it's just utter nonsense. I don't need to come up with an interpretation of RAW that's bad to Samantha, because my position here is there is no legitimate interpretation of RAW here.
As far as I can tell, the only rules keyword in the feat that doesn't have a proper definition is "standard attack," and it's in a parenthetical example where it carries minimal weight, RAW-wise. Melee attack, melee weapon, full attack, strike maneuver, attack bonus, and unarmed attack all have glossary and/or index entries. And the wording is pretty much the same as e.g. Improved Buckler Defense or Distracting Attack, so the syntax isn't especially unusual either.

Besides, asking "What if the DM rules that Snap Kick simply doesn't work at all under RAW and therefore has no effect?" is not meaningfully different than asking "What if the DM bans Snap Kick at their table?". It's not fair to judge an Iron Chef build like that, because this competition has a defined ban list. In Iron Chef, Snap Kick is not banned or nerfed, and that's that. The possibility that it might be banned in the fashion that you suggest is moot; we are all operating under the basic assumption that it is legal. And if this is really truly a sticking point for you, then I'll appeal to the Chair to make a definitive FAQ ruling on it.


Somewhat similar case for adept casting. The point wasn't "you get adept casting", the point was "RAW is murky".
There are a lot of rules that are murky. Natural attacks are murky. Soulmelds are murky. Chill touch is murky. Prestige classes that advance spellcasting are murky. Even the Dodge feat is murky. But you probably wouldn't apply an automatic elegance penalty to any build that uses Dodge, or say that any build with Dodge necessarily has to "dance in both weddings" because the phrase "During your action" doesn't have a clearly defined rules meaning. Nor, I suspect, would you dock points from every incarnum build just because it's unclear in the rules how soulmelds interact with spell resistance, or from every mystic theurge build just because it's unclear whether it advances spells known. Or, to use an even more analogous example, would you still have penalized my build the same way if it had used acolyte of the skin or blood magus instead of nosomatic chirurgeon? Their advancement abilities aren't any less ambiguous—they both say they don't provide any other benefits beyond spells per day and spells known, which should preclude any advancement of breath weapon or invocations known.

[H_H_F_F]

What if the DM rules that Snap Kick simply doesn't work at all under RAW and therefore has no effect?

This, and all other comments in the same vein, are missing the point. You're claiming you're not pulling any RAW nonsense here, so it's also irrelevant and we don't need to keep discussing it, but I'll try to clarify it one more time: if an entry is pulling stuff no DM would ever allow because it's technically RAW, I'm also going to punish it for stuff no DM would ever have an issue with because it's technically RAW. It doesn't need to be banned by the competition for me to point that out and address it when appropriate, just like craven doesn't need to be banned for me to find it cheesy and address that in originality.

Anyway, to the main part of your dispute: we're back at the same juncture of "Holy hell, you think this is RAI? you think this is something a normal table runs? We have very different views on that."

If your trick has to rely on clothes, specifically clothes, blocking LoE, then you're in much bigger trouble than you were before explaining this. I'm not going to lower your points again because, come on, but like, COME ON!

I think the RAW of clothes blocking LoE is very damn shaky at best, but the RAI of it? The "normal tableness" of it? No way in ****ing hell and back. You realize that the argument you're making simply has to say that a character wearing a hooded cloak is immune to most magic as long as they're back is turned to the caster? That a character in full plate only has to hang a thin veil on their eyes to be immune to most magic, period? This is even before we start running into the related shady stuff about LoE to only a part of your body, which D&D is really not equipped to handle, because it only references creatures. But we really don't need to get into that, because again, I just don't see any actual table ever letting clothes block LoE, ever - which is why I tried to be generous and said your character has some lead chest or something, because at least then most DMs would be willing to talk.

In short: I'm again astounded by how differently we think of RAI and normal gaming here. If I didn't think otherwise, I would be absolutely certain that you were consciously trying to pull a (weak) case of RAW here.

No change in score, because lowering score after a dispute that didn't mean to do that feels nasty and I don't do that.

[The Viscount]

One more message from Samantha d'Jorasco's chef (in the interests of time, I'm going to say this is the final message for this exchange).


Again, I think you've misunderstood what's going on here. A lightproof covering placed over an object can block the magical darkness radiating from it. It's in the spell description for darkness.

[WhamBamSam]

Any guesses as to the next SI? I don't think we've had any hints other than Viscount saying it's bad.

[The Viscount]

Somehow it isn't psionics.

[loky1109]

I aspire it's something unupdated 3.0 - Fist of Hextor, Red Avenger, Forsaker. Something like this.

[H_H_F_F]

Response to samantha:

Gotcha. I still think this creates a lot of issues with the system not being able to address LoE to part of a creature, especially when it simply has to go on your skin and not your head - the game gets really weird once you start doing stuff like that.

However, it's still a better case with most DMs and the RAI than I originally gave you credit for with the lead box, I think. +0.25 in elegance.


So sorry for the late and short response by the way. I'm in the Sahara, internet and free time have been on short supply. Thanks to all of our chefs for participating, and to Samantha's chef for fighting for their build.

[Venger]

I aspire it's something unupdated 3.0 - Fist of Hextor, Red Avenger, Forsaker. Something like this.

I thought we'd already done forsaker, so would be safe from it. This does not appear to be true.

[The Viscount]

There is only 1 way to be safe from Forsaker.

[The Viscount]

It's time for the reveal!


Name Alignment / Race Class Levels Chef Judge 1: Inevitability Judge 2: H_H_F_F Total Place
Noah Itall (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564608&postcount=41) L(?)N Strongheart Halfling Invisible Eye Style Halfling Monk 1/Archivist 4/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Singer of Concordance 3/Dragon Descendant 10/Swordsage 1 Paragon 14.00 6.65 20.65 4th
Samantha d'Jorasco (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564613&postcount=42) L? Halfling Dragonfire Adept 2/Soulwarp Strike Halfling Monk 3/Dragon Descendant 10/Nosomatic Chirurgeon 5 Troacctid 16.50 13.20 29.70 2nd
Naughty Loafer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564618&postcount=43) CN Changeling Changeling Egoist 17/Dragon Descendant 3 loky1109 13.00 13.15 26.15 3rd
Mr. Neighsayer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25564626&postcount=44) LN Human Overwhelming Attack Style Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Monk 3/Fighter 2/Dragon Descendant 10/Devoted Defender 2/Crusader 3 Zaq 14.75 15 29.75 1st


Congratulations to all our competitors. Thanks again to the efforts of our judges!

New round up shortly.

[Zaq]

Wow! That is probably the slimmest margin of victory I'll ever squeak out. Congrats to everyone who got something in! This was such a nothingmaster of an ingredient.

Thanks to both of our judges! Your judgments were well-considered and were fun to read.

H_H_F_F: Mea culpa for not making a statblock for Mhia. Basically I got the flu the last weekend the build was due, and I didn't have the energy to actually make a horse statblock. It was on the to-do list, but it got sacrificed in favor of napping on the couch. Thankfully I'd done almost the whole build before then, so it was complete enough to send it in. I'm glad that wasn't the margin of victory though!

On to the next round! And this one looks like a doozy...

[H_H_F_F]

Huh. I misremembered the scores and somehow believed that Samantha ivertook neighsayer after the first dispute. Guess the decision over whether the third dispute would be a 0.25 or a 0.5 was more impactful than I realized.

Congrats to all our chefs this round!