How much should this cursed magic ring of never-missing cost?

[gadren]

This is based on one of my favorite magic items from AD&D, and I wanted to know how to price it before dropping it into my campaign:

Ring of Demanded Precision
This iron ring has a reddish hue to it, and appears to grant a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity. However, the first time that the wearer makes an attack roll that would miss, its true nature takes effect. If the attack roll is a natural 1, the wearer takes 10 damage (that cannot be reduced in any way), and rerolls the attack roll. Any attack roll made (other than a natural 1) that would miss immediately receives a bonus sufficient to instead hit the targeted AC. However, the wearer takes 1 point of damage per point of bonus granted. (For example, if the wearer was trying to hit AC 30 and only rolled an attack roll of 15, they would take 15 points of damage). This damage cannot be reduced in any way. The ring does not help with miss chances such as from concealment, however if the wearer misses due to concealment, the ring still grants the bonus that would've been necessary to hit the target AC and does damage to the wearer accordingly. Only a remove curse spell enables the wearer to be rid of this ring once its true nature is revealed.
Strong transmutation; CL 9th; Forge Ring, true strike, wrack; Price ???? gp.

EDIT: Ok, how about a more modest version:
Ring can cast quickened true strike at-will. Supposedly that’s worth 90,000 (5*9*2000). [Though I don’t put a lot of stock in the guidelines beyond just being guidelines.]
However it is cursed so that it:
Can’t be removed without remove curse.
The wearer cannot make any attack without activating the ring first as a swift action.
Activating the ring does 20 damage to the wearer that can’t be stopped or reduced.
What do you think such an item would be worth to PCs compared to other magic items?

[GnomeWorks]

What does it do on a natural 1, which is a miss no matter the result of the attack roll?

[gadren]

What does it do on a natural 1, which is a miss no matter the result of the attack roll?

Good point. Let's say it deals 10 damage to the wearer and rerolls the d20.

[noob]

This is based on one of my favorite magic items from AD&D, and I wanted to know how to price it before dropping it into my campaign:

Ring of Demanded Precision
This iron ring has a reddish hue to it, and appears to grant a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity. However, the first time that the wearer makes an attack roll that would miss, its true nature takes effect. If the attack roll is a natural 1, the wearer takes 10 damage (that cannot be reduced in any way), and rerolls the attack roll. Any attack roll made (other than a natural 1) that would miss immediately receives a bonus sufficient to instead hit the targeted AC. However, the wearer takes 1 point of damage per point of bonus granted. (For example, if the wearer was trying to hit AC 30 and only rolled an attack roll of 15, they would take 15 points of damage). This damage cannot be reduced in any way. The ring does not help with miss chances such as from concealment, however if the wearer misses due to concealment, the ring still grants the bonus that would've been necessary to hit the target AC and does damage to the wearer accordingly. Only a remove curse spell enables the wearer to be rid of this ring once its true nature is revealed.
Strong transmutation; CL 9th; Forge Ring, true strike, wrack; Price ???? gp.

Price the nearly never miss effect like a +20 bonus to attack rolls since in practice it is that but with a minor ribbon life loss effect.
I assume the cost this way would be something like 10(epic magical item)*400(20^2)*2000(+20 weapon bonus)*1.5(wrong slot) for a total of 12.000.000 gold.
The +2 dex bonus is so negligible for the cost you might as well ignore it but it would add 6000 gp to the cost if you factor it in.
Calculation of the cost of the dex bonus: 1000(enhancement bonus to a stat)*2²(+2 modifier)*1.5(additional effect on the same item).

Please note that in the case of a cursed item you are supposed to pay both for the bonuses and the penalties so in theory it should cost more than 12.006.000 gp.(This is why all the example cursed items are so expensive: their cost includes both the upsides and downsides)

For crafting such magical item you need epic forge ring, a caster level of 60 and to know the cat's grace spell.(and wrack if it is supposed to represent the self damage)

[Jervis]

Change the hp damage to con damage and this seems like a “good” cursed item. As is it’s kinda just a always on true strike

[noob]

Change the hp damage to con damage and this seems like a “good” cursed item. As is it’s kinda just a always on true strike
An undead or construct would just ignore the negative effect, most cursed items are priced according to the fact that for most curses, there is ways to bypass the negative effects(or benefit from them) then just have the bonuses, this is why curses do not reduce cost at all(in fact they increase the cost instead) so the logical pricing would still be more than 12.006.000 gp even with that, however it would mean that there would be less adventurers just able to grab an epic item.

[Jervis]

An undead or construct would just ignore the negative effect, most cursed items are priced according to the fact that for most curses, there is ways to bypass the negative effects then just have the bonuses, this is why curses do not reduce cost at all(in fact they increase the cost instead) so the logical pricing would still be more than 12.006.000 gp even with that, however it would mean that there would be less adventurers just able to grab an epic item.

That is a fair point. Though as an aside I suppose it could be costed as a item that casts true strike on a conditional trigger (use to remember the formula for stuff like that with repeating traps and custom magic items and such but it’s been a while). That said I agree that it’s a epic magic item in terms of bonuses.

As a point for OP this is better than you think it is. HP scales faster than enemy AC and at high level at will healing at least to half HP isn’t unlikely. This effectively reads as “pay 30 hp to power attack for full on a full attack”.

[gadren]

Price the nearly never miss effect like a +20 bonus to attack rolls since in practice it is that but with a minor ribbon life loss effect.
Well, the life loss isnÂ’t supposed to be minor, especially with it applying to every attack. Though I guess since HP was so much more limited in AD&D that I should increase the damage to 2 or 3 damage per point of bonus granted.

I assume the cost this way would be something like 10(epic magical item)*400(20^2)*2000(+20 weapon bonus)*1.5(wrong slot) for a total of 12.000.000 gold. I disagree that weapon bonus is the correct formula to base off of, as this only grants a bonus to attack, not damage.

The +2 dex bonus is so negligible for the cost you might as well ignore it but it would add 6000 gp to the cost if you factor it in.
Calculation of the cost of the dex bonus: 1000(enhancement bonus to a stat)*2²(+2 modifier)*1.5(additional effect on the same item). it doesn’t actually grant a bonus to dex, that’s just what it’s disguised as until the “curse” activates.


Please note that in the case of a cursed item you are supposed to pay both for the bonuses and the penalties so in theory it should cost more than 12.006.000 gp.(This is why all the example cursed items are so expensive: their cost includes both the upsides and downsides) The +3 Mace of Blood is cheaper than a normal +3 mace, and the +2 Backbiter Spear is cheaper than a normal +2 spearÂ…

Thank you for your thoughts, but I donÂ’t think weÂ’re on the same page, here. While I agree that the always hit part is obviously absurdly powerful, the life loss should reduce its value significantly, and that was the main part I was trying to figure out the price impact of in terms of how much it reduces the value.

Edit: I have no idea how or why it inserted all those ‘s into my post…

[Maat Mons]

In a sense, +1 to attack is worth 2 points of damage, because that's the exchange rate of Power Attack. Of course, if you're using Leap Attack and a Valorous weapon, you're actually getting 8 points of damage per -1 to attack.

It's from a 3.0 source, but a Wrathful Healing weapon heals you for half of the damage you deal. It seems like the best way to mitigate the effects of this ring.

Not sure what the price should be though.

[Vaern]

Good point. Let's say it deals 10 damage to the wearer and rerolls the d20.
The attacker's weapon twists and whirls around, causing him to strikes himself. He rolls the d20 against his own AC, treating himself as flat-footed (good luck trying to dodge yourself), with the ring sapping HP as appropriate to hit his own AC. He is able to crit himself in this way.

I think it would be difficult to accurately price the item unless you set a hard cap on the attack bonus granted by the ring. As is, we must assume that the effect is potentially infinite, making it unpriceable.

As is, I'd call it a flawed/corrupted artificer, an attempt by a mortal to create a magic item beyond the limitations of mortal magic. Their intention was to create a ring that makes its wearer unbeatable in combat, and he succeeded in a way... But the ring, unintended by its creator, draws a potentially fatal tax from its wearer to meet this end.

[gadren]

The attacker's weapon twists and whirls around, causing him to strikes himself. He rolls the d20 against his own AC, treating himself as flat-footed (good luck trying to dodge yourself), with the ring sapping HP as appropriate to hit his own AC. He is able to crit himself in this way.

I think it would be difficult to accurately price the item unless you set a hard cap on the attack bonus granted by the ring. As is, we must assume that the effect is potentially infinite, making it unpriceable.

As is, I'd call it a flawed/corrupted artificer, an attempt by a mortal to create a magic item beyond the limitations of mortal magic. Their intention was to create a ring that makes its wearer unbeatable in combat, and he succeeded in a way... But the ring, unintended by its creator, draws a potentially fatal tax from its wearer to meet this end.

I’m frustrated that I can’t re-find the original AD&D item in my Encyclopedia Magica (which is over 1500 pages long and dubiously organized), but iirc the original item was a +5 sword that demanded no mistakes from its wielder and thus always gave an extra bonus to attack that was always just enough to hit, but damaged the wearer that bonus amount each time. And it was cursed so you could use no other weapon. However, if I remember correctly in AD&D you stopped rolling for HP after level 9, so that was a much bigger cost.

[noob]

I’m frustrated that I can’t re-find the original AD&D item in my Encyclopedia Magica (which is over 1500 pages long and dubiously organized), but iirc the original item was a +5 sword that demanded no mistakes from its wielder and thus always gave an extra bonus to attack that was always just enough to hit, but damaged the wearer that bonus amount each time. And it was cursed so you could use no other weapon. However, if I remember correctly in AD&D you stopped rolling for HP after level 9, so that was a much bigger cost.

ad&d had way more variability on item power and provided players with some absolutely crazily powerful items if you used the random tables.
In dnd 3.5 we do not expect as adventurers to randomly get a magical item that hits harder than meteor shower or an item that disables opponents with no save while in ad&d that would not have been so surprising nor out of line(just very unlikely).

[gadren]

ad&d had way more variability on item power and provided players with some absolutely crazily powerful items if you used the random tables.
In dnd 3.5 we do not expect as adventurers to randomly get a magical item that hits harder than meteor shower or an item that disables opponents with no save while in ad&d that would not have been so surprising nor out of line(just very unlikely).
I understand that, I’ve been DMing 3e/3.5 games off and on for 22 years, but also I’ve been in this hobby for 30 years and sometimes I like to muse on old things that never got updated and if they can be reasonably remade in 3.5.

[gadren]

Ok, how about a more modest version:
Ring can cast quickened true strike at-will. Supposedly that’s worth 90,000 (5*9*2000). [Though I don’t put a lot of stock in the guidelines beyond just being guidelines.]
However it is cursed so that it:
Can’t be removed without remove curse.
The wearer cannot make any attack without activating the ring first as a swift action.
Activating the ring does 20 damage to the wearer that can’t be stopped or reduced.
What do you think such an item would be worth to PCs compared to other magic items?

[noob]

I understand that, I’ve been DMing 3e/3.5 games off and on for 22 years, but also I’ve been in this hobby for 30 years and sometimes I like to muse on old things that never got updated and if they can be reasonably remade in 3.5.

Honestly I do like a lot of ad&d curious ideas and also like obscure third party dnd 3.5 manuals that tries to fit ad&d style content(spells and spellcraft is epic for that, so many things that barely makes any sense, want to animate paintings? there is a spell for that in it, want to make customised constructs from scratch? there is an entire chapter for this, want magical eggs that triggers effects on breaking? They exist now, bow to the overegg that will explode in a meteor shower when it breaks)

[gadren]

Honestly I do like a lot of ad&d curious ideas and also like obscure third party dnd 3.5 manuals that tries to fit ad&d style content(spells and spellcraft is epic for that, so many things that barely makes any sense, want to animate paintings? there is a spell for that in it, want to make customised constructs from scratch? there is an entire chapter for this, want magical eggs that triggers effects on breaking? They exist now, bow to the overegg that will explode in a meteor shower when it breaks)
AD&D also tended to have some very silly magic items that I got with converting sometimes like the magic bowling ball that knocks over clumped groups of enemies.

[noob]

AD&D also tended to have some very silly magic items that I got with converting sometimes like the magic bowling ball that knocks over clumped groups of enemies.

What haunts my mind forever is the magic item that entangles the target in its equipment, I forgot which ad&d manual had it but forever I will imagine this result.

[BerzerkerUnit]

This is based on one of my favorite magic items from AD&D, and I wanted to know how to price it before dropping it into my campaign:

Ring of Demanded Precision
This iron ring has a reddish hue to it, and appears to grant a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity. However, the first time that the wearer makes an attack roll that would miss, its true nature takes effect. If the attack roll is a natural 1, the wearer takes 10 damage (that cannot be reduced in any way), and rerolls the attack roll. Any attack roll made (other than a natural 1) that would miss immediately receives a bonus sufficient to instead hit the targeted AC. However, the wearer takes 1 point of damage per point of bonus granted. (For example, if the wearer was trying to hit AC 30 and only rolled an attack roll of 15, they would take 15 points of damage). This damage cannot be reduced in any way. The ring does not help with miss chances such as from concealment, however if the wearer misses due to concealment, the ring still grants the bonus that would've been necessary to hit the target AC and does damage to the wearer accordingly. Only a remove curse spell enables the wearer to be rid of this ring once its true nature is revealed.
Strong transmutation; CL 9th; Forge Ring, true strike, wrack; Price ???? gp.

EDIT: Ok, how about a more modest version:
Ring can cast quickened true strike at-will. Supposedly that’s worth 90,000 (5*9*2000). [Though I don’t put a lot of stock in the guidelines beyond just being guidelines.]
However it is cursed so that it:
Can’t be removed without remove curse.
The wearer cannot make any attack without activating the ring first as a swift action.
Activating the ring does 20 damage to the wearer that can’t be stopped or reduced.
What do you think such an item would be worth to PCs compared to other magic items?

I like the idea of a cursed ring that makes you never miss. Were it me, I'd make it a lot simpler.

Whenever you roll a ranged attack you get a bonus equal to the difference between your roll and 20 and take necrotic damage equal to the bonus gained. This damage cannot be reduced or avoided in any way.

If the curse is removed the ring grants a +1 to hit with ranged attacks and you reroll any 1 rolled for a ranged attack but must accept the 2nd result.