Aoos, manufactured weapon, primary natural weapon qu

[Particle_Man]

If you have a “sword/claw/bite” full attack routine I get that the claw and bite would be secondary natural attacks, even if one of them (say the claw) would have been a primary attack if the sword wasn’t part of the full attack.

What if you get an attack of opportunity and decide to use a claw attack? Would it could as primary or secondary for that Aoo?

[Gruftzwerg]

If you have a “sword/claw/bite” full attack routine I get that the claw and bite would be secondary natural attacks, even if one of them (say the claw) would have been a primary attack if the sword wasn’t part of the full attack.

What if you get an attack of opportunity and decide to use a claw attack? Would it could as primary or secondary for that Aoo?


Making an Attack of Opportunity

An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and you can only make one per round. You don’t have to make an attack of opportunity if you don’t want to.

An experienced character gets additional regular melee attacks (by using the full attack action), but at a lower attack bonus. You make your attack of opportunity, however, at your normal attack bonus—even if you’ve already attacked in the round.

AOOs are always made on max BAB. The AOO doesn't care for primary/secondary.

[Particle_Man]

What about the str bonus to damage? It is halved for secondary natural attacks.

[Gruftzwerg]

What about the str bonus to damage? It is halved for secondary natural attacks.

Imho this is more complex as it seems at first glance..

1. The "general" AoO rules give you the permission to make an attack at your "normal" BAB.

2. TWF and secondary attack penalties are more specific and thus trump the "general" rules for AoO and thus still apply.

3. But... is the Natural Weapon you used "called out/defined as secondary weapon" or did you just "use it as secondary weapon" in your attack routine? Imho this makes a difference here by strict RAW. Because (1) allows for the use of your "normal" BAB (for that attack).
Examples:

a)
Assume you use Armor Spikes as primary attack and your (primary) claws as secondary attack. Since your claws are normally primary natural weapons, you could make an AoO with your full BAB with one of your claws.

b)
Assume that you have a secondary bite attack in addition to your primary claws. Since the bite attack is called out as secondary attack, it would again be more specific and thus the penalties (to hit & dmg) would apply.

Imho if you go by strict RAW it seems that it depends if the natural weapon used was sole used as secondary for that Full Attack or if it is a secondary attack by default for your form.

Dunno if this a good play advice. These kind of things should be handled better by each table or maybe situational imho and not determined by RAW (unless for forum competitions and showcase purposes^^).

[loky1109]

If you use natural weapon ad secondary weapon during your attack it should be secondary until start of your next turn. I can't give you RAW to support this opinion, but it looks reasonable, Power Attack, TWF, flurry, etc, all them works in this way.

[Gruftzwerg]

If you use natural weapon ad secondary weapon during your attack it should be secondary until start of your next turn. I can't give you RAW to support this opinion, but it looks reasonable, Power Attack, TWF, flurry, etc, all them works in this way.

Good point. But imho it is more like how mainhand/offhand is handled in 3.5
You can change which hand is you mainhand for each situation. It doesn't always have to be your "right" (or left) arm.
Normally, you determine what each hand is sole for your "Full Attack".

I wouldn't imply offhand penalties for using TWF with either hand when making AoO. I would sole apply the mainhand penalty.
For the same reason, I wouldn't apply the "secondary attack"penalty to AoO, unless the natural weapon is called out as secondary (only) in the rules of the creature.

[Zarvistic]

If you have a “sword/claw/bite” full attack routine I get that the claw and bite would be secondary natural attacks, even if one of them (say the claw) would have been a primary attack if the sword wasn’t part of the full attack.

What if you get an attack of opportunity and decide to use a claw attack? Would it could as primary or secondary for that Aoo?
Secondary, as per RC page 100. You take the penalty even on AoO.

[Particle_Man]

Secondary, as per RC page 100. You take the penalty even on AoO.

The RC entry seems to say secondary “when you make a full attack”, but I am asking about when you make an attack, such as an Aoo, that is not part of a full attack. I don’t think the ex entry says that the usual-primary attack becomes secondary in the latter case.