Best class/subclass for Plasmoids

[werescythe]

So Plasmoid is coming out soon and with it rises the question, what would be the best class/subclass for their Amorphous ability? So far I'm feeling that Beast Barbarian, Soul Knife Rogue and Astral Self Monk (though technically any monk would be good), are the best options... But what are your thoughts?

[RogueJK]

Rune Knight grappler


You can squeeze through gaps 1 inch wide at any time. And PB times per day, you can do the opposite and make yourself Large using Giant's Might, meaning you can grapple up to Huge creatures.

You have 24/7 Advantage on all grapple checks, plus further Advantage on all other STR-based checks and saving throws when you use Giant's Might.

Frost Rune can give you another +2 bonus to STR checks/saving throws.

The Skill Expert feat (or a 1 level Rogue dip) can get you Athletics Expertise to boot.

[werescythe]

Rune Knight grappler


You can squeeze through gaps 1 inch wide at any time. And PB times per day, you can do the opposite and make yourself Large using Giant's Might, meaning you can grapple up to Huge creatures.

You have 24/7 Advantage on all grapple checks, plus further Advantage on all other STR-based checks and saving throws when you use Giant's Might.

Frost Rune can give you another +2 bonus to STR checks/saving throws.

The Skill Expert feat (or a 1 level Rogue dip) can get you Athletics Expertise to boot.

Seeing as you can't take weapons with you, then would you suggest the unarmed fighting style?

[Psyren]

All the options you mention would make for solid martials. The squeeze ability would be pretty nifty for infiltration so I'd probably lean towards the monk or rogue (soulknife /AT) options. The pseudopod would also be handy to do thiefy things at a distance.

Having said that, a Beast Plasmoid would make a great symbiote build (like Venom, Carnage, Riot etc.)

[stoutstien]

Flubber monk is probably my personal favorite so far.

[RogueJK]

Seeing as you can't take weapons with you, then would you suggest the unarmed fighting style?

Unarmed would be the most straightforward way to do it on a Rune Knight.



To have a manageable AC on your Plasmoid without wearing armor, consider 1 level in Monk or Barbarian for Unarmed Defense, or 1 level in Wizard/Sorcerer or 2 levels in Warlock for Mage Armor, or a 1 level Draconic Sorcerer dip for Draconic Resilience (effectively always-on Mage Armor). All of those options require a good DEX, though.



Besides the aforementioned Monk, Beast Barbarian, or Soul Knife Rogue from the OP, or taking Unarmed Fighting Style, other ways for a Plasmoid to always have a weapon at hand include Eldritch Knight 3's Weapon Bond or Warlock 3's Blade Pact, either of which lets you summon a chosen weapon to you. (The EK and Bladelock also have access to Mage Armor as well.)

Or the Tavern Brawler feat is another way to always have a weapon at hand. Squeeze through a gap, and then grab literally anything that's handy to use as an improvised weapon.

Or just stick to damage cantrips.



Plasmoid would be a good candidate for a Monk 1/Moon Druid X build. The Plasmoid would always have melee attack (Martial Arts/Primal Savagery), ranged attack (Produce Flame), and AC (Unarmored Defense) options without any equipment, with your attacks/damage/defense getting even better when you Wild Shape.

I also just like the image of a Plasmoid Moon Druid: A puddle of goo slithers under the door, and forms into an animal form... The roomful of enemies are then mauled to death by a pissed-off Gummy Bear.

https://www.pngkey.com/png/full/476-4762164_370kib-526x768-gummy-bear-teddy-bear.png

[Naanomi]

Aberrant Mind sorcerer, psychic damage assassination from the drainpipe

[kazaryu]

To have a manageable AC on your Plasmoid without wearing armor, consider 1 level in Monk or Barbarian for Unarmed Defense, or 1 level in Wizard/Sorcerer or 2 levels in Warlock for Mage Armor, or a 1 level Draconic Sorcerer dip for Draconic Resilience (effectively always-on Mage Armor). All of those options require a good DEX, though.




monk dip lets you use Dex for unarmed strikes anyway, so you'd have the going for you. you'd still want some STR investment obvi for grappling. and probably even a rogue dip for expertise. i'd say skill expert but...idk, i feel like an ASI is a bit more expensive, also comes online later

[Damon_Tor]

Hrm...

About all I can think of for this guy is forcing himself down into your enemies' lungs and kill them from the inside with unarmed attacks, using the "Climb onto a bigger creature" action. You can hold your breath for an hour, so you're good on that front. Nobody can see you in there and you have total cover against everything. Sure, you attack with disadvantage because you're (probably?) squeezing the whole time, but that's counterbalanced by the advantage you have from being unseen.

On the off chance you wind up going down the wrong pipe and into the stomach, well you're resistant to acid too.

A monk would probably be best for this due to unarmed attacking and generally being very mobile. Also, as an interesting aside, the "Climb onto a Bigger Creature" action can use either your Strength (athletics) or Dexterity (acrobatics) further favoring a monk. It's always contested by Dexterity (acrobatics) which makes it ideal versus a number of really tough bruiser-type monsters.

[Ogun]

You are a small or medium creature
You might be to get part of your body inside a medium creature, but your whole body?
That seems unlikely.

[Damon_Tor]

You are a small or medium creature
You might be to get part of your body inside a medium creature, but your whole body?
That seems unlikely.

It's possible this tactic might only work on large or larger opponents. But the good news is, it's not like you need to make a weird, gimmicky build to make this work, so in encounters where it's not viable you can just be a regular monk and do regular monk stuff.

[SociopathFriend]

You can squeeze through gaps 1 inch wide at any time.


Question: At what speed can you do that? How long does it take?

[Psyren]

Question: At what speed can you do that? How long does it take?

Presumably it uses the normal squeeze rules (PHB 192) - just with a much smaller aperture. Instead of being limited to a space one size smaller than they are, they can squeeze into a 1-inch space, i.e. the same size openings that an Arcane Eye can fit through. This would include miniscule openings like an arrow slit or keyhole.

While squeezing, every foot of movement costs 2 feet, but if the opening you're squeezing through is less than that (e.g. a keyhole) then presumably you wouldn't move far enough for the penalty to apply.

[cZak]

"The pseudopod can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds"

As a shield is listed at 10#, is this deliberate to allow a heavy weapon with a shield use?

[stoutstien]

"The pseudopod can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds"

As a shield is listed at 10#, is this deliberate to allow a heavy weapon with a shield use?
Doesn't work by RaW. Shields must be wielding in hand to benefit from them. The thri-kreen on the other hand...ha...can come close but still no heavy weapons and shield.

[cZak]

Doesn't work by RaW. Shields must be wielding in hand to benefit from them. The thri-kreen on the other hand...ha...can come close but still no heavy weapons and shield.

I wonder if that could be argued Specific vs General
The Thri-kreen specifies, where the plasmoid is kind of obscure

generally, I'd be inclined to not allow the shield with heavy weapon as it is a pretty good buff, but...

[Psyren]

"The pseudopod can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds"

As a shield is listed at 10#, is this deliberate to allow a heavy weapon with a shield use?

I'd say that wording is more to align it (power-wise) with Mage Hand, which is also at-will object manipulation at range (with a couple other advantages/disadvantages.)

[werescythe]

Aberrant Mind sorcerer, psychic damage assassination from the drainpipe

The thing to remember is that you can't take magic components or arcane focuses with you.

[Psyren]

The thing to remember is that you can't take magic components or arcane focuses with you.

Their Psionic Sorcery feature lets them cast a number of spells without components, so it can actually be a handy build for a plasmoid who has to leave a lot of their gear behind.

[Ogun]

How about warlock?
I would like to see what a plasmoid could do with Mask of Many Faces.

[Naanomi]

Their Psionic Sorcery feature lets them cast a number of spells without components, so it can actually be a handy build for a plasmoid who has to leave a lot of their gear behind.
Exactly, and careful spell selection on a psychic focused sorcerer can leave you with very little need for focuses to begin with

[Ogun]

This may already be acknowledged but I was just thinking about it..
I don't think the plasmoids abilities wouldn't work when wildshaped.
I say this because taking the shape of a venomous snake allows the druid make a poisonous bite attack, suggesting that an actual physical change is taking place.
Since the plasmoids abilities stem from their unique physical structure, they should be unavailable when wildshaped.

[werescythe]

One question I'm starting to have is, how beneficial might it be for a Plasmoid astral self monk to multiclass 1-3 levels into druid (moon)?

[renzdog]

LudicSavant has a "soul knife" build in An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

From Ludic's post

"Here's a very tanky Dex Fighter that still gets to dish out more damage than many GWMers despite wielding a shield (and Shield, and ironclad saves, and etc). Best of both worlds. I've taken to calling this style of build a "Soulknife" build because they can summon all their weapons and armor, using Shadow Blade (or Weapon Bond) and Mage Armor. "

[RogueJK]

One question I'm starting to have is, how beneficial might it be for a Plasmoid astral self monk to multiclass 1-3 levels into druid (moon)?

Not very beneficial at all, if you're intending to rely on Combat Wild Shape.

Moon Druids rely heavily on obtaining more Druid levels in order to keep their Combat Wild Shape forms competitive with enemy scaling.

A Monk 1/Moon Druid X multiclass is doable, being only 1 level behind. It only hurts a little, and that's mostly felt in later Tier 2 just before Elemental Wild Shape comes online.

But a Moon Druid 3/Monk X is pretty suboptimal. That Brown Bear form that's such a powerhouse at Levels 2/3/4 quickly loses steam outside of Tier 1. As a result, it's not worth being several Monk levels behind just to chase entry-level Combat Wild Shape forms.


The best bet for an Astral Self Monk who's dead-set on dipping Druid would be either 1 level dip for a little WIS-based cantrips and spellcasting to go with your WIS-based Astral Arms, or a 2 level Stars Druid dip for basic animal Wild Shape forms for infiltration/exploration, plus Archer Form for additional Bonus Action WIS-based ranged attacks to go along with your ranged cantrip options, plus Dragon Form's to boost Astral Self's WIS-based grapple/shove Checks or boost Concentration checks to keep your Entangle or Faerie Fire going.

Even then, such a Stars Druid dip would be best saved until after Monk 5 or 6.

[RogueJK]

LudicSavant has a "soul knife" build in An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds

From Ludic's post

"Here's a very tanky Dex Fighter that still gets to dish out more damage than many GWMers despite wielding a shield (and Shield, and ironclad saves, and etc). Best of both worlds. I've taken to calling this style of build a "Soulknife" build because they can summon all their weapons and armor, using Shadow Blade (or Weapon Bond) and Mage Armor. "

Plasmoids can only squeeze when carrying no weapons or items. That means no (physical) shield, and no spell focus or material components.

The Shadow Blade and Shield spells would still be options, being only Verbal+Somatic spells, but not having access to any material components could put a cramp on some of your other spellcasting.

[Damon_Tor]

Plasmoids can only squeeze when carrying no weapons or items. That means no (physical) shield, and no spell focus or material components.

The Shadow Blade and Shield spells would still be options, being only Verbal+Somatic spells, but not having access to any material components could put a cramp on some of your other spellcasting.

Well if it's an EK, then it has weapon bond. If the weapon in question can also be used as a spell focus and/or a focus that can also be used as a weapon, then that solves that problem rather neatly. All you would need to worry about is spells with costly components.

[ender241]

Well if it's an EK, then it has weapon bond. If the weapon in question can also be used as a spell focus and/or a focus that can also be used as a weapon, then that solves that problem rather neatly. All you would need to worry about is spells with costly components.

RAW, EK can't use a spellcasting focus for the material component of their spells.

[Damon_Tor]

RAW, EK can't use a spellcasting focus for the material component of their spells.

I thought Ruby of the War Mage bypassed that.

[ender241]

I thought Ruby of the War Mage bypassed that.

After reviewing the wording and doing a little research, it seems you are correct. JC even confirmed it on Twitter fwiw. I stand corrected. And now I'm slightly tempted to play a plasmoid EK.

[GooeyChewie]

My first thought was to go Monk so you don't need equipment when squeezing through small spaces. But just now I realized, the pseudopod can help Plasmoid casters take advantage of the squeezing ability. Squish through a gap in the wall, then extend your pseudopod back to grab your spell focus or other small items.

[follacchioso]

A Pact of the Blade Warlock can use their action to conjure their pact weapon; and, with Improved Pact Weapon, use it as spellcasting focus. This would allow a Plasmoid character to retrieve their weapon and focus after squeezing away.
It would still be a suboptimal build, though, for a good number of reasons. You can't use expensive material components, such as those for the Summon spells from Tasha. You won't be able to carry armour or other equipment, and there are other disadvantages.

Similarly, a Genie warlock could perform a one-hour ritual to get their focus, but this is too slow in many occasions.

Note that most cantrips are VS and do not require a spellcasting focus, meaning it is possible to create a build that doesn't have any M spell. Maybe a sorcerer could pull it off. But it would still not be ideal.

[Psyren]

My first thought was to go Monk so you don't need equipment when squeezing through small spaces. But just now I realized, the pseudopod can help Plasmoid casters take advantage of the squeezing ability. Squish through a gap in the wall, then extend your pseudopod back to grab your spell focus or other small items.

Or through a keyhole or arrowslit, or under a door.

Some openings might even let you slide your spell focus and clothes through, then squish through yourself.

You can also go with Aberrant Mind Sorc and have as few spells that need material components as possible.

[stoutstien]

Hehehe. Creation bard's performance doesn't have any rules for components or sight. If you ever wanted to be clay face and the joker all at once....

[samcifer]

Unarmed would be the most straightforward way to do it on a Rune Knight.



To have a manageable AC on your Plasmoid without wearing armor, consider 1 level in Monk or Barbarian for Unarmed Defense, or 1 level in Wizard/Sorcerer or 2 levels in Warlock for Mage Armor, or a 1 level Draconic Sorcerer dip for Draconic Resilience (effectively always-on Mage Armor). All of those options require a good DEX, though.



Besides the aforementioned Monk, Beast Barbarian, or Soul Knife Rogue from the OP, or taking Unarmed Fighting Style, other ways for a Plasmoid to always have a weapon at hand include Eldritch Knight 3's Weapon Bond or Warlock 3's Blade Pact, either of which lets you summon a chosen weapon to you. (The EK and Bladelock also have access to Mage Armor as well.)

Or the Tavern Brawler feat is another way to always have a weapon at hand. Squeeze through a gap, and then grab literally anything that's handy to use as an improvised weapon.

Or just stick to damage cantrips.



Plasmoid would be a good candidate for a Monk 1/Moon Druid X build. The Plasmoid would always have melee attack (Martial Arts/Primal Savagery), ranged attack (Produce Flame), and AC (Unarmored Defense) options without any equipment, with your attacks/damage/defense getting even better when you Wild Shape.

I also just like the image of a Plasmoid Moon Druid: A puddle of goo slithers under the door, and forms into an animal form... The roomful of enemies are then mauled to death by a pissed-off Gummy Bear.

https://www.pngkey.com/png/full/476-4762164_370kib-526x768-gummy-bear-teddy-bear.png

A.K.A. Odo from Star Trek:DS9

[werescythe]

So I just want to say that the Barrier Tattoo is great for Plasmoid players that aren't playing either Barbarian or Monk, especially the Rare or Very Rare variant. I played a oneshot this evening of a level 6 Plasmoid Soulknife Rogue with a rare Barrier Tattoo and had an AC of 20.

[RazorChain]

Monk 1/wizard or sorcerer 3/Moon druid x, small plasmoid


Monk for the unarmored defense because you'll be naked. Wizard or Sorcerer for the Enlarge/Reduce spell. Moon Druid for shapeshift.

You cast reduce on yourself, now you're tiny. Then you crawl into the monsters butt as you can squeese into tiny openings and shapechange for the win!

[Nod_Hero]

Rune Knight grappler
You can squeeze through gaps 1 inch wide at any time. And PB times per day, you can do the opposite and make yourself Large using Giant's Might, meaning you can grapple up to Huge creatures.
You have 24/7 Advantage on all grapple checks, plus further Advantage on all other STR-based checks and saving throws when you use Giant's Might.
The Skill Expert feat (or a 1 level Rogue dip) can get you Athletics Expertise to boot.

This all seems marvelous!


Frost Rune can give you another +2 bonus to STR checks/saving throws.
This is a little more problematic if you've squeezed into some place because the Rune Carver runes must be inscribed onto an object which "must be a weapon, a suit of armor, a shield, a piece of jewelry, or something else you can wear or hold in a hand."

[Nod_Hero]

So I just want to say that the Barrier Tattoo is great for Plasmoid players that aren't playing either Barbarian or Monk, especially the Rare or Very Rare variant. I played a oneshot this evening of a level 6 Plasmoid Soulknife Rogue with a rare Barrier Tattoo and had an AC of 20.

Interesting. I'm not sure that every DM is going to let the Plasmoid 'Blob' use a magical tattoo because the "Magic Tattoo Coverage" chart definitely mentions limbs, hands, feet, and torso.

I'll have to ask my gamemaster about it for the Spelljammer campaign we will be starting soon.

[werescythe]

Interesting. I'm not sure that every DM is going to let the Plasmoid 'Blob' use a magical tattoo because the "Magic Tattoo Coverage" chart definitely mentions limbs, hands, feet, and torso.

I'll have to ask my gamemaster about it for the Spelljammer campaign we will be starting soon.

I just went off of the fact that it says that Plasmoids can absorb dyes into themselves, so why not magical ink? :)