Dnd 3.5 help with a spell and situation

[samduke]

As stated , the situation.
Npc is tied / bound by silk rope not magic 2x each arm 1x ea leg strung between 2pillars
Pcs cast benine transpostion and freedom of movement

Nothing i read in it covers bound the spell freedom does but is lvl 9 vs 4

So is there RAI wher non magic bound gets free via freedom of movement

[Silva Stormrage]

I would say no, the spell FoM does not cover being bound by non magical restrictions. Imagine a character locked in a solid metal coffin sealed completely with barely any ability to move. Would FoM allow them to what? Phase through the metal? In my opinion obviously not and I see this as a similar situation.

[ciopo]

I would extend the "automatic success of escape artist check" to things other than grapple, because grappling is as nonmagical as ropes are, so if freedom of movement makes the target slimy enough to automatically succeed escape artist fcheck in grapples, then it's slimy enough to automatically succeed anything else thst calls for an escape artist check.

So.... do your normal escape artist vs use rope opposed check? And FoM makes escape artist win

That's the houserule I'd go for ( or that FoM does nothing for grappling, in a same weight same measure way)

[ruleof5]

A bound character is considered helpless.

Helpless characters are treated as having a Dexterity of 0

Characters with a dexterity of 0 are considered paralyzed.

Paralyzed characters cannot move or act except purely mental actions.

This seems to be mechanically how bound characters are prevented from moving.

Freedom of Movement specifically calls out paralysis as something it overcomes. So I'd say it'd not be an unreasonable interpretation to let freedom of movement allow a bound character to move and attack as normal.



Although the paralyzed condition and the paralysis called out by Freedom of Movement as a magical effect do seem to be different things. (Paralysis being a special ability of monsters that inflicts the paralyzed condition.)

[Biggus]

A bound character is considered helpless.

Helpless characters are treated as having a Dexterity of 0

Characters with a dexterity of 0 are considered paralyzed.

Paralyzed characters cannot move or act except purely mental actions.

This seems to be mechanically how bound characters are prevented from moving.

Freedom of Movement specifically calls out paralysis as something it overcomes. So I'd say it'd not be an unreasonable interpretation to let freedom of movement allow a bound character to move and attack as normal.



Although the paralyzed condition and the paralysis called out by Freedom of Movement as a magical effect do seem to be different things. (Paralysis being a special ability of monsters that inflicts the paralyzed condition.)

Paralysed and bound are not the same thing; the helpless condition lists them separately.


A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless

[ruleof5]

Paralysed and bound are not the same thing; the helpless condition lists them separately.


This is true, but it turns out bound leads to paralyzed via the chain I mentioned. There's nothing else mechanically stopping a bound character from moving otherwise.

[Biggus]

This is true, but it turns out bound leads to paralyzed via the chain I mentioned. There's nothing else mechanically stopping a bound character from moving otherwise.

An ability damaged character with Dex 0 is paralysed. A bound character isn't ability damaged, they're just treated as having Dex 0.

[ruleof5]

Is having ability damage or drain a prerequisite for the "0 in an attribute" effects to kick in? Genuinely curious. A Gelatinous Cube with the Dustform Template would have a natural dexterity of 0. Would it be able to move?

"Treated as having 0 dex" sounds similar enough to me to have it take the the effects of having 0 dex, and if not we must be prepared to accept that being helpless doesn't actually stop you from acting.

[samduke]

well looks like I am stuck between Raw and RAI in a semi grey zone

being bound in the manor described with non magical means ( silk rope) does freedom of movement apply?

This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement such as

paralysis

The subject automatically succeeds on any Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple.


* can the subject escape the ropes via escape artist skill check - yes
* is the subject grappled, I would say no being bound (tied up) is not the same as grappled
* is the subject helpless, I would say mostly but the hands are still mobile for effects such as somatic in the use of casting a spell
* is the subject paralyzed, no the subject can still act and use hands
* does being bound in this manor cause paralysis I would say mostly but the hands are still mobile for effects such as somatic in the use of casting a spell


- checks RAW -

Condition Summary

Grappling
Engaged in wrestling or some other form of hand-to-hand struggle with one or more attackers. A grappling character can undertake only a limited number of actions. He does not threaten any squares, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) against opponents he isn’t grappling.

Paralyzed
A paralyzed character is frozen in place and unable to move or act. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless,

Helpless
A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0


Escape Artist Skill Check
Ropes
Your Escape Artist check is opposed by the binder’s Use Rope check. Since it’s easier to tie someone up than to escape from being tied up, the binder gets a +10 bonus on his or her check.

**
I think I am going with escape artist check in this instance